What the Bible says about the second coming of Jesus

[truthbringer]

OK. You are wrong but OK

He is more than just wrong he has scripture so twisted it would take for ever to get the knot out. WOW!!!, First of the Bible does not teach there will be two 2nd coming moreover Jesus does not say He is taken anyone back to heaven in John 14:1-3 He says that He is going to heaven to make a place for us (that place is New Jerusalem) and it will not come down from earth until after the Millennium, Jesus also says when He returns He will recieve us into Himself that were He is we will be also (Not were He was going to or where He was, but where He is) and where is Jesus going to be when He returns? The earth for the Millennium and that is where we will be as well where Jesus is not where He was going or where He was b4 His return. Finally and I could go on but finally 1st John 3:2 says when Jesus appears we will be like Him. When is His ''glorious appearing''? which is a phrase pretribbers use to separate the supposed ''coming in the clouds'' His actual coming they call the 2nd coming His glorious appearing. So when is His glorious appearing? after the tribulation at His posttrib 2nd coming. When will we be like Christ (or receive our heavenly bodies)? at the rapture. So if we will be like Him when He appears as the scripture says, then we will be raptured at the posttrib 2nd coming.

When a man comes along 2,000 years later and starts saying that Paul got it wrong and that the Bible is mistaken, and also twists scripture so out of whack that it is no longer scripture, it is easier to just let people know that he is wrong.

The real WOW is that there are people who AMEN someone who says Paul got it wrong.

Just to clarify something. I did not Amen on so called mistakes that Paul made. If you read the whole post of Truthbringer, you would've noticed he/she didn't say Paul made a mistake, he/she clearly stated the following: and I quote him

"NOTE, The Bible teaches us that the second coming is in two parts. [A] The coming for the saints The physical coming.

If the rapture is at the Physical coming of Jesus the saints will have to do a U-turn in mid-air to come back with Him.

And Paul made a mistake when he said, "We that are alive shall be caught up in the air" 1 Thessalonions 4: 17.

at the Physical coming of Jesus there is no record of the ressurected saints, so Paul also made a mistake 1 Thess 4: 13--16.

Remember, The Bible writters were inspiered by God. So if they made a mistake, it means that God made the mistake."

So, again I clarify this, Truthbringer DIDN'T say Paul made a mistake, he/she said if it was that the rapture is the second coming then there would've been a mistake, which there isn't.

And you know what, I belive in the pre-trib rapture, but even if it's not like that, I'm still a Blood washed child of the Living God, and whenever He wants to take us away, is up to Him, not up to us to quarrel about, and not respecting other believers views.

Thanks Grace, If people misunderstand what I have cearly said, No wonder thay cannot understand the Bible.

By the way I am a "He".

[truthbringer]

Re: OP title: The Rapture is not the Second Coming. The Church is raptured away, and the Church actually comes back with Jesus for His glorious, conquering return to set up His Millennial Kingdom and reign with Him for 1000 years here on Earth.

You are right the rapture is not the 2nd coming the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

Hi, ezekiel! I believe that the Word teaches that there is a definite catching away of the saints before the Second Coming. We aren't meant to endure the wrath of God upon the nations during the Great Tribulation. The Bride is spotless and will not undergo wrath. There is no mention of the Church in Revelation after we read of the trumpet voice saying, "Come up here!" Why? Because she is just not here!

The great tribulation is the wrath of the world on christians (Mat 24:9) followed by GOD's wrath on men not sealed and protected from the plagues.

JESUS and the saints are still in Heaven reigning over the earth for 1,000 years (REV 20:4-6). And very likely through Satans 1,000 years as well. They can't very well come to earth and then have to leave it again when the new earth is created, can they?

[1] Matthew 24: 9 isn't talking about the great tribulation, V6 says, "The end is not yet.

[2]Rev 20: 4-6 Doesn't say they are in heaven, Ch 17: 14 & ch 19: 14. tells us that the saints came to earth. But that isn't the point, the point is, Jesus comes to rapture the Church before the tribulation and brings them with Him at His physical coming.

[Floatingaxe]

It is impossible to have two 2nd comings. The second 2nd coming would be the third coming, but if for the sake of convention and in deference to common usage we call the third coming the second second coming, then we meet ourselves coming and going. So I'm going to go and figure this out. Anyone want to come with me?

[1]The Bible teaches One second coming of Jesus, But in two parts, His coming for the Saints at the preitrib rapture, and His Physical coming.

[2] You are not supose to figure it out, You are supose to read the Bible, Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you as you read it, The exept it and believe it.

The trouble with most people is their own thought and beliefs.

...and the trouble with most pre-tribbers that I encounter here and elsewhere is that they can't articulate their thought without resorting to charismatic jargon. The above is probably the clearest statement of the pre-trib/rapture scenario I've seen in a while. Now all you have to do is support it from scripture. The problem is, no one can. Pre-trib/rapture is a false construct based on out of context proof-texting.

By the way, I've been reading and studying the Bible for thirty-five years and if nothing else, I've learned never to take anything anyone claims in God's name at face value until I check it out for myself, especially when it comes to eschatology. Too much of what passes for scholarship in this area is nothing more than wishful thinking based on wild theories, speculation and nonsense founded on a misreading of Revelation. Most of the people that buy into the "Left Behind" scenario never stop to ask what John's original audience would have understood him to say and why he was saying it. That opens the door for all kinds of speculation, none of which is based on anything solid other than a declaration that "the Holy Spirit told me so." When I hear that, I know the difference between being an illumined reader and an inspired writer is lost on the speaker. Inevitably, when challenged, the questioner is subjected to scorn and abuse, however benign. The burden of proof is on he who asserts, not he who defends.

Well I have known the Lord and studied His Word longer than that, and I know that the Lord has been purposefully vague about end things, and that it matters not one iota that there are differences in interpretation in eschatology!

We have a blessed Hope. There is nothing we can lose by believing what we are led to believe. There is no purpose served in argument about these matters. Both camps (Pre-Trib and Post-Trib) and all other camps have no corner on truth because God did not give the entire truth to us about the end. He exercised His own right to withhold.

[truthbringer]

Truthbringer you are terribly confused. There is one 2nd coming at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes with the saints from heave ( those that have died in Christ) For the living saints here on earth, so that they ( the dead) can receive their heavenly bodies and so the living can receive theres. We will all continue to earth after the living meet the Lord in the air, destroy the wicked and reign during the Millennium as kings and priests.

ezekiel, It is you who is confused, Read my post again, If there is no pre-trib rapture then there are cirtain scripture that God put in the Bible that have deceived us,

For instance, Jesus Told His Followers that He is going to heaven to prepare a place for them, and He told them that He will come and receive them to Himself. The Greek word for "Receive" is, TAKE AWAY, TAKE UP. That sounds like the rapture to me.

You like all the anti pre-rapture. put your own view instead of looking at the whole subject.

[Floatingaxe]

What we have here, folks is a mystery. God has determined to not reveal the entire scenario to us. Maybe He will in due time, but no one knows the exact sequence of coming events yet. No one--which is why all this debate is not honouring to God and pointing fingers at people to say they are wrong is foolish, to say the very least!

[truthbringer]

For instance, Jesus Told His Followers that He is going to heaven to prepare a place for them, and He told them that He will come and receive them to Himself. The Greek word for "Receive" is, TAKE AWAY, TAKE UP. That sounds like the rapture to me.

This statement is simply untrue

''Receive'' greek meaning word 3880 in the strongs concordance= To receive or bring near ie to associate with ones self as if accepting them into your family or in an intimate act of relationship. To receive into ones self or to take upon ones self.

Seems like you are the one that needs to study more my friend.

[1]You have either got a poor translation, Not read it right, or deliberatly left out, "TAKE AWAY, & TAKE UP, Because it does say that.

[2] You only have to look at Jn 14: 3. and see that Jesus is coming to receive,[ TAKE UP] us into heaven.

[3] When Jesus physicaly returns we will be with Him, not caught up to meet Him.

[Floatingaxe]

For instance, Jesus Told His Followers that He is going to heaven to prepare a place for them, and He told them that He will come and receive them to Himself. The Greek word for "Receive" is, TAKE AWAY, TAKE UP. That sounds like the rapture to me.

This statement is simply untrue

''Receive'' greek meaning word 3880 in the strongs concordance= To receive or bring near ie to associate with ones self as if accepting them into your family or in an intimate act of relationship. To receive into ones self or to take upon ones self.

Seems like you are the one that needs to study more my friend.

[1]You have either got a poor translation, Not read it right, or deliberatly left out, "TAKE AWAY, & TAKE UP, Because it does say that.

[2] You only have to look at Jn 14: 3. and see that Jesus is coming to receive,[ TAKE UP] us into heaven.

[3] When Jesus physicaly returns we will be with Him, not caught up to meet Him.

[Guest Yacov]

Suggested Study regarding rapture and Yeshua's return:

1) The Jewish Rapture Theory in the Bereshit or Genesis, specifically, it entails the whole story of Messiah Joseph or the Prime Minister of Egypt.

2) The Feasts of the Lord not the Jewish Feasts which are 2 entirely different Feasts. Look at the Fall Feasts - the Feasts of Trumpets and the Feasts of Tabernacles.

The statement that Yeshua stated "no man will know the day or the hour comes from one of the Fall Feasts. Specifically, the Jewish New Year as it happens to be on the end of the month. It has to deal with counting the days that the High Priests had to do to look for the moon to decide when the Jewish New Year started.

[OneLight]

Suggested Study regarding rapture and Yeshua's return:

1) The Jewish Rapture Theory in the Bereshit or Genesis, specifically, it entails the whole story of Messiah Joseph or the Prime Minister of Egypt.

2) The Feasts of the Lord not the Jewish Feasts which are 2 entirely different Feasts. Look at the Fall Feasts - the Feasts of Trumpets and the Feasts of Tabernacles.

The statement that Yeshua stated "no man will know the day or the hour comes from one of the Fall Feasts. Specifically, the Jewish New Year as it happens to be on the end of the month. It has to deal with counting the days that the High Priests had to do to look for the moon to decide when the Jewish New Year started.

Nothing about feasts here, my friend. Here is what we are discussing. May I ask you to provide scripture. please?

Matthew 24:36-44

No One Knows the Day or Hour

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Mark 13:32-37

No One Knows the Day or Hour

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

Edited to say Welcome to Worthy!

[stevehut]

I will ask this again:

Can someone tell me why this is important?