By What Authority?

[GoodSamaritan]

On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we KNOW were not written by one of the 12 apostles? Can I add or remove books from the canon on my own authority?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings GoodSamaritan,

On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we KNOW were not written by one of the 12 apostles? Can I add or remove books from the canon on my own authority?

In your Bible there should at least be a synopsis of the canonization of Holy Scripture. If not, there are books written about it and you can also go on line and search out the reasons why each of the 66 books were included in the Bible. You will also find reference to the apocrapha and the pseudopagrapha(sp?) and why they were not canonized.

Are you interested in getting rid of just certain books of the Bible? If so which ones? Do you suppose that the Holy Spirit is using them to "convict" you so that you might repent? Just asking, I am not pointing any fingers.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[GoodSamaritan]

If not, there are books written about it and you can also go on line and search out the reasons why each of the 66 books were included in the Bible. You will also find reference to the apocrapha and the pseudopagrapha(sp?) and why they were not canonized.

My Bible has 73 books. My point is that i find it peculiar that 7 books were declared 'uninspired' by Martin Luther 1200 years after the first Christians, guided by teh Holy Spirit, included the 7 missing ones as inspired. The Christian canon (OT and NT) were set at 7 separate councils before they were confirmed again in 1547 at Trent. What gave Luther the authority to declare 7 books not worthy of the Book that had already existed for 1200 years? If he can do it, why can't you or I?

God Bless

GS

[cymba22]

Hope these links work they should answer that for you:-

http://www.orthodox.net/faq/canon.htm

http://www.pastornet.net.au/rtc/canon.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ric...er/NTcanon.html

[GoodSamaritan]

Thanks, those are good reads--I've seen them before. The 7 'missing' books, however, are from the OT. Had Luther got his way, he'd have yanked out 2 or 3 of these NT books that these articles talk about.

My question, however, is by what authority can a single person take 7 books out of the canon?

The Christians of apostolic time had an OT and NT with 73 books. Jesus, when he established the Church, gave it the authority to determine inspiration and inclusion in, or exclusion from, the canon. Guided by the Holy Spirit, the Church created a 73 book volume that was the Word of God until Martin Luther declared 7 OT books uninspired 1200 years later. I KNOW why he did this--the 'uninspired' books contained verses directly opposite of what he was teaching. As for the NT, the book of James was the example. Luther declared it 'an Epistle of straw' and consigned it to the flames.

But by what authority? Was Luther alone guided by the Holy Spirit? If so, why did the Spirit wait until 1517 to 'reveal' this to him?

[cymba22]

If i remember right the first one mentions about the OT and what give authority...we as individuals cannot which is why there was an outcry over the part of one of the 10 commandments in the catholic bible going....if you take something that has been canonized out without scriptual documentation to do so...i.e say for example the apostle peter said that paul did not exist...then you could take out all of pauls stuff..hope you see what i'm getting at....but the reason the 7 were taken out are mentioned in the links i gave...and who took them out

[AllforJesustheLord]

Many times I have considered which books are correct, and if some are incorrect, and if all are correct, and which ones, and why, and if someone has purposely changed the teachings of God, so that people would be deceived, and so they would have control of God's church, yet I do see Christ said His Words would be around all the time, thus He would not allow His Words to be taken away, thus His Words have always been around, some people did not know where to find them though. So the canonized books of the Bible, I have choosen to believe in, I see they go together, and God moves through them, and yes without any doubt God will have HIs way, and He will have His people, surely in both the Older Testaments, and the New Testament, we can see God is in control, and He will save His people with His own hand, through His own will, and no one will take them away from Him. We I hope all do the best we can in serving God, but God is the One who will be justified no matter what anyone of us think, thus I take refuge in the fact God is all powerful, and merciful, and just in all His judgements, and He will do what is good, and right, He knows best, and His will will be done. He will have people to stand up for Him, and they will, and they will be right, those things in the bible we should stand up for. We can see Christ did come to do what He did, and He did not lie, and so we can see the 66 books are His Word, and any others may, and probably will have some true things, but also they will have somethings which are probably wrong, unless we see things by God's Spirit in a way those other books did not intend, we then might, be able to see truth even in areas of falsehood, but we are never to go away from The Truth, He is Jesus Christ, and His Word is the 66 Books of the One Bible.

[GoodSamaritan]

So the canonized books of the Bible, I have choosen to believe in, I see they go together, and God moves through them, and yes without any doubt God will have HIs way, and He will have His people, surely in both the Older Testaments, and the New Testament, we can see God is in control, and He will save His people with His own hand, through His own will, and no one will take them away from Him.

Why have you chosen to believe in 66 when the Christians of the Apostolic Period included 73? Where did you get the 66 books from as it has always been 73 since time immemorial? SOMEONE had to pick which books would comprise the Word of God--who was it? And if they had 73 books in it until Martin Luther excluded 7, why would you take Luther's 'declaration' over the Apostles and their successors? This, i still have not seen an answer for. The Bible NEVER had 66 books--until Luther took it upon himself to take 7 out. What gave this Augustinian monk the authority or crediblity or divine inspiration to do this considering all public revelation ended when the Apostles died?

We can see Christ did come to do what He did, and He did not lie, and so we can see the 66 books are His Word, and any others may, and probably will have some true things, but also they will have somethings which are probably wrong, unless we see things by God's Spirit in a way those other books did not intend, we then might, be able to see truth even in areas of falsehood, but we are never to go away from The Truth, He is Jesus Christ, and His Word is the 66 Books of the One Bible.

How and WHY is it 66 books? The Bible did not fall from the sky with 66 books in it, did it? What would you say if i told you that Jesus and the Apostles used the OT that included the 7 'lost books'? At some point, humans filled with the Holy Spirit had to determine which writings were inspired and which were not--they were called Apostolic Successors. Can 7 lost books lead you closer to God? That's what they were written to do.

God Bless.

GS

Give this a read: http://www.mark-shea.com/archives.html

[Guest Strservant]

So the canonized books of the Bible, I have choosen to believe in, I see they go together, and God moves through them, and yes without any doubt God will have HIs way, and He will have His people, surely in both the Older Testaments, and the New Testament, we can see God is in control, and He will save His people with His own hand, through His own will, and no one will take them away from Him.

Why have you chosen to believe in 66 when the Christians of the Apostolic Period included 73? Where did you get the 66 books from as it has always been 73 since time immemorial? SOMEONE had to pick which books would comprise the Word of God--who was it? And if they had 73 books in it until Martin Luther excluded 7, why would you take Luther's 'declaration' over the Apostles and their successors? This, i still have not seen an answer for. The Bible NEVER had 66 books--until Luther took it upon himself to take 7 out. What gave this Augustinian monk the authority or crediblity or divine inspiration to do this considering all public revelation ended when the Apostles died?

We can see Christ did come to do what He did, and He did not lie, and so we can see the 66 books are His Word, and any others may, and probably will have some true things, but also they will have somethings which are probably wrong, unless we see things by God's Spirit in a way those other books did not intend, we then might, be able to see truth even in areas of falsehood, but we are never to go away from The Truth, He is Jesus Christ, and His Word is the 66 Books of the One Bible.

How and WHY is it 66 books? The Bible did not fall from the sky with 66 books in it, did it? What would you say if i told you that Jesus and the Apostles used the OT that included the 7 'lost books'? At some point, humans filled with the Holy Spirit had to determine which writings were inspired and which were not--they were called Apostolic Successors. Can 7 lost books lead you closer to God? That's what they were written to do.

God Bless.

GS

Give this a read: http://www.mark-shea.com/archives.html

Good Samaritan,

One of the tests of the canonization of Scripture that was done way before Luther by the way, was direct quoting from Jesus or the apostles. The seven books you refer to are never quoted by Jesus or the apostles in the New Testament. This is why they were excluded. The other Old Testament books are either quoted from or referred to by Jesus and/or the Apostles.

Another test was accuracy in historical accounts. There are inaccuracies in the seven books excluded. These two tests alone should be enough to understand why they were rejected but there are other tests they failed also. To say the apostles had 73 books is not actually accurate since most of the New Testament was not established at the time of the apostles. To say they had these seven books as Scripture is hard to back up as they never quoted from them.

Respectfully,

Strservant

[AllforJesustheLord]

My understanding is the 66 Books were canonized, by the Catholic church in the time of constantine, and then after that they added some on.