JCISGD Posted March 14, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Hi FoC i would like some proof other than the scholar you link, that Paul was addressing a question of being defiled by marriage to an unbeliever. This seems to be a scholars opinion, plucked out of thin air and not anywhere in Pauls letter. 1 Cor 7:1 i agree it says concerning the letter they wrote to Paul, but the only intention i can see is v15 to LET them depart (do not fight about it) and for PEACE 1 Cor 7:11 to remain unmarried or reconcilled. If she were divorced as you say she could not be reconciled, but would have to be remarried. "Let your yes be yes and your no be no" The term UNMARRIED can only be applied as dont remarry as Paul has already taught she must not remarry. Paul only talks of her departing and not divorce, but not divorcing is implied by his instruction that the husband must NOT divorce. How much more the wife? As far as i can see the only room we have for discrepency is the case of unbelievers departing, but again divorce is not specified and can only be inserted. You seem to assume your frustration with me proves something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted March 17, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi all i will use this thread to recant a little as the one i started is closed. I am no longer sure of my previously held veiws on this topic, and they were new to me from about 3 weeks ago about the time i found Worthy Forums. I posted in sincerity at the time, but have to recant of being sure. I have been arrested by the words of Jesus, where he says Mat 5:32 WHOEVER divorces his wfe for ANY reason EXCEPT Porneia,(Fornication, which at the least IS sexual immorality), CAUSES her to COMMIT adultery. I am mostly concerned with the fact that he CAUSES her, and that she COMMITS (this being an action on her part) adultery. So my two questions are, 1. How can she be caused to commit adultery in the say the situation where she did not remarry but remained single? It says nothing of him remarring only divorcing. 2. Can it be reasonably taken that Jesus was assuming the case that she would be FORCED to remarry because of her emotional, physical and/or fianancial needs ? Let it be known that i do not see this condoning adultery, only allowing for the fact that it does happen to the best of us. Your thoughts much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted March 17, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thanks FoC thats a very strong case for what youve shown and makes clear a seeming injustice. For years i would hicup at the "cause her" part, but being over my head would eventually lat it drop untill the next time i read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Press Forward Posted March 17, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2009 Is the Christian obligated to remain unmarried as long as the possibility for reconciliation exists? No... If your one of his, Jesus has much patience with us...and he will give you a do over. The next time around he expects alot more from his children. My first marriage failed miserably...and I was believer and she was a believer. But there is a big difference in believing in Jesus and being reborn and touched by Jesus Christ. When your touched by Jesus, divorce isn't even an option. Because your marriage will be sanctioned (made holy) by Almighty God and if we decide to leave or mistreat one another our destiny will be hell. Because it is the Will of Almighty God that we be married to one one another. We take the Father's will very seriously. ...we've been blessed over and over in our do over. ...but it didn't happen over night...it has come with hard work and determination... If Jesus gives you a do over......and he expects you to take this marriage very serious...and expects us to treat one another with dignity and respect..no excuses.... Divorce has caused much pain and destruction in our society...Divorce will be answered for in this world...with tears of repentence and sorrow...or in the next world in damnation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted March 17, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi PF are you saying that since your first marriage, youve recieved a baptism of the Holy Spirit that now means you are being held far more accountable, than shall we say a carnal Christian ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Press Forward Posted March 18, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2009 Hi PF are you saying that since your first marriage, youve recieved a baptism of the Holy Spirit that now means you are being held far more accountable, than shall we say a carnal Christian ? I'm not sure what a carnal christian is....your either a Child of Almighty Jesus Christ or your a child of satan. But when I lived as a child of satan and oh yes I was a believer in Jesus Christ but I lived for satan...there was no accountability...and I glorified darkness...and did everything my way...literally hell or highwater....there was no standards...no righteousness...no discipline...just a bunch chaos....and nonsense... And yes I am being held far more accountable for the privilege and gift of eternal life thru Jesus Christ. When your touched by Jesus Christ and he opens your eyes to what he had to do, to get you out of this evil wicked condemned world...and you become one of his...he expects you to strive to live your life perfectly in his eyes...it doesn't happen overnight...but if you stay focused on his spirit and holy word...it will be done...on earth as it is in heaven... Children of Light realize exactly what Jesus did for them and want to please him everyday. There is a reason every knee and every voice will confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Because he is the author of Life. And he will determine your souls destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted March 18, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Are you saying some one who is carnal ( ruled by the flesh ) is not a Chriatian ? or that you do not know of the expression ? I am troubled by Heb 10:26+27 "For if we sin willfully after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins". "but a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries." And 10:32 goes on to speak of "after you were illuminated " Some (not I yet) claim a second experience after salvation, namely the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a new POWER in them to overcome sin, the world and the Devil, just as at Pentecost Peter( who had caved in to his fears at Jesus arrest) now stood up and fearlessly faced a potential lynch mob. So i also wonder if the verse above is saying that a Christian who has recieved this second experience? is more accountable than what i would call a carnal Christian is. Because if this verse applies to many, myself included then i can only conclude that we are headed for hell, no concessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Press Forward Posted March 19, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2009 Are you saying some one who is carnal ( ruled by the flesh ) is not a Chriatian ? or that you do not know of the expression ? I am troubled by Heb 10:26+27 "For if we sin willfully after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins". "but a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries." And 10:32 goes on to speak of "after you were illuminated " Some (not I yet) claim a second experience after salvation, namely the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a new POWER in them to overcome sin, the world and the Devil, just as at Pentecost Peter( who had caved in to his fears at Jesus arrest) now stood up and fearlessly faced a potential lynch mob. So i also wonder if the verse above is saying that a Christian who has recieved this second experience? is more accountable than what i would call a carnal Christian is. Because if this verse applies to many, myself included then i can only conclude that we are headed for hell, no concessions. What I'm saying is....this is a spiritual battle... Light vs. dark, rightenous vs unrightenous, Love vs. Hate, Jesus Christ vs Satan Your either a Child of Jesus Christ or a Child of Satan. Every Human Being is special, unique and loved. Satan hates Jesus and since Jesus is the Author of Life he hates human beings. Jesus Christ came to earth and paid the ultimate blood sacrifice, his blood gave us the victory. If he didn't do that for us...we were all given over to the enemy and we all would have been destroyed. From this ultimate sacrifice now every living soul has to make a decision. You live for Jesus or you live for satan. Truth vs lies. Some people say I like my life and i will take my chances with satan. I was living for satan for about 41 years of my life and didn't even know it. Sad thing was nobody bother to tell me. My family went to church, said the sinners prayer many times. I thought and witnessed the grace of Jesus Christ as a right to sin and live how I wanted. Fornicate, steal, get drunk...no big deal...tell Jesus your sorry...then go get drunk again. I was a child of satan and didn't even know it. I glorified sin and delighted in it until it destroyed my life. Satan never tells you he's setting you up for destruction. I'm so grateful that Jesus allowed my life to be destroyed because that brought me to my knees, to repent in heartfelt tears for my filthy, ungodly life of a man. At that point I was reborn...I heard the cheers from heaven...and the tears of sorrow turned to the tears of joy of what Jesus Christ did for me. I don't live for Jesus because I have to...it is because I want to. I want to please him. I don't want no part of the enemy. And yes I am more accountable because I know how to behave in a Godly manner. And it is expected of me and my family. Of course we have weak moments...and make mistakes. But it is a nice feeling knowing your covered in this world. If I would have died before I was reborn...my destiny was hell. That is what is meant by love, grace, and mercy. Satan thought I was destroyed forever but instead I was adopted into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. And yes with my free will, and being a born again sancified believer in Jesus Christ ...if the enemy convinced me to cheat on my wife, or abuse her, or any other sin...I would end with all the other sexual immoral, vile individuals in the lake of fire. With a label on my head that said the dumbest person in the world...but it will never happen because I've seen the Light and I don't want that label stuck on me.. Souls are being lost everyday. Not because they don't have access to Jesus and his Holy Word but because of free will. This is the verdict. Light came into the world...but man loved darkness. The enemy has convinced the world with his lies that darkness and sin is good and there are no consequences. He has turned the blood of the Lamb into a license for darkness (sin). Many people are heading to the lake of fire...because they didn't bother to take Jesus and his Holy Word...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2009 Many people are heading to the lake of fire...because they didn't bother to take Jesus and his Holy Word...seriously. Scary stuff.....I wonder how many people think they're okay with God but are actually not taking Him seriously? I'd think eternity would be serious enough for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Thanks PF, i too know of the wonder of Gods salvation through Jesus Christ, and share your testimony of a broken life that led me to repentance at 28 yrs old. My question has been cleared up thanks, i thought you were like myself, an advocate of complete and instantaneous sanctification in this life. But thats another thread so i wll say no more. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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