nebula Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2009 About love and hate, I would like to add that hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 The statement, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated" touches at the very heart of this controversy. The Love is showed to he whom GOD has chosen, the one not chosen is removed from the family, removed from the promises of GOD and he and all his descendants are separated for eternity from GOD. As the scriptures state, Israel is loved of all the nations and HE has no regard for any other but Israel. (before CHRIST) So GOD elected Esau to this end even before Esau was born (Romans 9). This did not have to be so. Esau was a legitimate heir to the promise GOD made to Abraham until GOD chose to disown him and cast him off. When the name Esau is used, it refers to the Edomites, not Esau himself. http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html "When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the Prophet Malachi and the Apostle Paul are using the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 About love and hate, I would like to add that hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. That is an interesting statement in that GOD tells us that HIS love is towards HIS people and HE is indifferent to the rest. (speaking at the time about Israel and the rest of the nations) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 'kross' This question is answerred very well with the quotes Dave put in the posting "Bare permission" is unbiblical". I hope you will search it out and read it. Will that clear things or make matters worse I wonder. Your question about GOD being love is valid, if that is all GOD is and if we could understand the depths of that love and all of who and what GOD is. If that is all God is? Huh? How can we fathom God's Love? We have a drop in the ocean kind of notion of love - God IS Love - He is the embodiment so to speak of love...we will never understand that until we are with Him. However, JESUS said that "If you love me, my FATHER will love you". This does indicate there are those GOD does not love. Kross, we were created out of love. He being Love. I think you are missing my point. God's love is not selective - ours is. If you are looking to understand how people can believe this doctrin, than his post will give you some insights from some of the giants of the faith and places to look. If you want to understand how people could believe this doctrin, than you need to understand what they see in scripture to believe it. The Bible states that GOD hates some people, has unquenchable wrath, is jealous and vengeful. Our understanding of love tends to not allow for the other aspects of GOD that we know the Bible says are there. So kross - do you think our understanding of "hate" is light years apart from God's version of hate? MOre intense maybe. Their are those who believe love can not coexist with hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That is an interesting statement in that GOD tells us that HIS love is towards HIS people and HE is indifferent to the rest. (speaking at the time about Israel and the rest of the nations) Do you have a reference for that? I'm doing a search on "indifferent" in the Bible and can't find what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 If shiloh comes up you WILL get/receive your answer~ ZG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I can't find a verse for "love towards" either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That is an interesting statement in that GOD tells us that HIS love is towards HIS people and HE is indifferent to the rest. (speaking at the time about Israel and the rest of the nations) Do you have a reference for that? I'm doing a search on "indifferent" in the Bible and can't find what you mean. Start at Amos 3:2. I will seek out the one that states HE chasteneth Israel because they alone HE has loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Amos 3:2 - "You only have I known of all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." I'm still not seeing what you are saying. (Note: I've checked out different versions, and none say anything about Israel alone He has loved . . . I don't even see the word "love" being used.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Amos 3:2 - "You only have I known of all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." I'm still not seeing what you are saying. (Note: I've checked out different versions, and none say anything about Israel alone He has loved . . . I don't even see the word "love" being used.) I thought we were discussing that HE did not have feelings for the other nations, although I am not finding anything other than Amos 3:2 at this moment. It is possible that the wording that is in my brain is from something I read outside of the Bible (one of the reasons I never used to read commentaries) The word "known" in original Hebrew I believe refers to approbation, fondness, loved. I am certain that I read a scripture that stated what Amos 3:2 states and stated that Israel alone HE chastises. The one thing I can tell you with an absolute certainty (ignoring the problems with John 3:16 which I do not agree with the commentators who teach what I believe) The Bible only speaks of love from GOD towards HIS people. Either HIS love for Israel or HIS love for those in CHRIST or through CHRIST. There is no place in scripture that states GOD loves anyone else other than these. I am not puting forth that this means HE does or doesn't. I am simply stating that scripture only refers to love from GOD in it's application to HIS people. Of course, this understanding is conditional on agreeing on the meaning of the word "us" in the epistles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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