The Waters of Meribah

[dcampsart]

I was born into a dysfunctional (or nonfunctional, as my mom puts it) home. (I know, very common these days).

I too was born into a very confused family. All material needs and creature comforts provided for but love for one another is what seemed confusing. Common these days or not, insecure family life develops insecure adults.

I have one parent who had a very, very short temper.

I had a very angry parent who was both verbally and physically abusive. I felt I would never amount to anything... according to this parent's words. I can sense you are worried about not honoring your parents by not telling which one. The Lord has been convicting me lately that I should quit bringing up many of the issues that happened and pointing to the one particular parent that caused most of the pain. I don't believe he wants me to quit character assassinating for the parent's sake as much as mine.

I was so hurt by this anger that I determined in my heart not to hurt others the way I had been hurt, if at all possible. So, when I felt angry, I tried to suppress it. Unfortunately, this meant I turned my anger inward. Without realizing it, I was basically beating myself up.

I'll bet you, like me, have NEVER really wanted to express your anger by hurting anyone. In fact, I'll bet the Lord fashioned you in such a way that you've never had a vicious bone in your body. I'll bet the enemy of your soul knows exactly how wonderfully loving you were fashioned because he knew it was God's will to do so for his future purpose. I believe you've been BUFFETED by him all your life because he is attempting to keep you from discovering WHY you were made to be kind, generous, gentle and yes... LOVING!

There were other factors involved - being at the bottom of the totem poll at school for example. It just kept building upon my already fractured soul.

I too was never accepted by most "tough" guys or the popular bunch because they could sense how I never had any fight in me. I was always willing to turn the other cheek... not because of fear as much as I simply could not bring myself to hurt anyone. I can't tell you what severe trauma I went through when my father forced me to fight back with a neighborhood bully who repeatedly beat me up. My father took me to the kid and told me if I didn't beat him he was going to beat me... right in front of the bully's gang. I was horrified!!! I couldn't bring myself to hit him in the face! While the bully kept pummeling my face, I would retaliate with a soft punch to the shoulder. That was the most I could muster. Unfortunately, due to my father's threatenings, I ended up unleashing an anger and viciousness I never knew I had. I ended up beating the bully severely. My father acted like he was well pleased and told me how proud he was of me. I was devastated! What I did to that kid was totally against my God-given nature. I was very confused, after that moment, as to how I'm supposed to deal with any frightful moments like that one. I know my father meant well. He was tired of seeing me coming home with all the cuts and bruises. I will admit, not a single kid in the neighborhood ever challenged me again. What really confused me, for the rest of my life, was joining the Marine Corps at 18 years of age. I thought my father's teaching about attacking the enemy was scary. You can only imagine how my 7 years in the Marines had me all mixed up going against my peace-loving nature!!

The summer after, the Lord did a major healing in my life. I'd go into it, but that would take more time than I have this morning.

I had an injury to my neck that caused compression of the discs in my neck. Unfortunately, I didn't follow all the prescribed treatments for the injury and I ended up with Osteoarthritis in the neck with severe pain radiating to the shoulder joints. After a year or so of putting up with the horrible pain, I went to other doctors who diagnosed my problem and told me that I had Osteoarthritis in my neck and that it was never going to go away but get worse as the years would go by. He told me to accept the idea that this was for life. He told me my head would eventually fall forward with my chin ending up on my chest. The only thing he could do was prescribe anti-inflammatory drugs. I couldn't take them because they tore up my stomach. I threw them away and decided to live with the pain.

The shoulder pain became so severe that I couldn't raise my arms parallel with the floor without wanting to scream bloody murder! I really felt hopeless. One day, I walked into a church a little late. The congregation was already into praise and worship. I didn't want to interupt anyone so I stood in the last row of empty seats with nobody behind me. I closed my eyes, raised my hands as far as the pain would allow. Immediately following, a gentle breeze fanned my face, as if someone was trying to get by in front of me. I opened my eyes thinking I had to get out of the way. Nobody was there! I thought that was strange but blew it off as just a breeze coming from someone opening a door or something. :th_praying:I again closed my eyes attempting to get into a spirit of worship. Suddenly, I heard a soft whisper in my left ear that spoke my name... "David.....!" I then felt something flow from the back of my head and traveled down the back of my neck, down my spinal column to the waist. It felt like a warm hand was going down the back of me. I couldn't believe the warmth I felt in my neck and shoulders. I decided to raise my arms up over my head. Absolutely no pain!! Every symptom I had prior was GONE! I looked to see if anyone was behind me. NOBODY! I quickly went forward and asked the pastor if I could tell him about how, with no man touching me or praying over me, I was simply HEALED. Understand, I never went to this church before. It was my first day returning to the Lord after walking away from him for awhile questioning and depressed about the terrible pain I was going through! I don't know if it was the Lord's way of hugging me back, putting a robe on me and a ring on my finger but it sure was a wonderful homecoming... I can tell you that!!

Unfortunately, the roots had not been dealt with - or did not have time to be dealt with. So, when situations distracted me from my focus on Jesus and keeping up with my spiritual pursuits (emotional instabilities http://www.worthychristianforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_39.gif' alt=':39:'> ), the old shadows crept back in, and I fell back into the old pattern. My life has cycled like that.

Oh yes... the cycling! Distractions? Mine seemed to involve my current crazy family life raising 5 kids... not to mention all the grandkids! I like your choice of words... "spiritual pursuits!"

Before I got really sick, I was involved in a fellowship that put me under a lot of condemnation, self- and otherwise.

What kind of fellowship? Were they really legalistic?

I hope you'll forgive me for taking so long to reply to you but I got into another couple of threads and simply forgot to come back to this one. I do appreciate your candidness.

[nebula]

The Lord has been convicting me lately that I should quit bringing up many of the issues that happened and pointing to the one particular parent that caused most of the pain. I don't believe he wants me to quit character assassinating for the parent's sake as much as mine.

Yeah - I'm trying to figure out how to share "my story" without putting a bad face on anyone.

I'll bet you, like me, have NEVER really wanted to express your anger by hurting anyone. In fact, I'll bet the Lord fashioned you in such a way that you've never had a vicious bone in your body. I'll bet the enemy of your soul knows exactly how wonderfully loving you were fashioned because he knew it was God's will to do so for his future purpose. I believe you've been BUFFETED by him all your life because he is attempting to keep you from discovering WHY you were made to be kind, generous, gentle and yes... LOVING!

Thanks

My father took me to the kid and told me if I didn't beat him he was going to beat me... right in front of the bully's gang.

. . . I don't know if it was the Lord's way of hugging me back, putting a robe on me and a ring on my finger but it sure was a wonderful homecoming... I can tell you that!!

How awesome!!

Glory to God!!!!

. . . raising 5 kids... not to mention all the grandkids!

Wow, I didn't realize you were a grandfather!

Is that one of your grandkids in your profile pic, then?

What kind of fellowship? Were they really legalistic?

It started out as a Bible study group of sorts at this one church my family went to. Then there was a division between the pastor and the leader of the study. She and the group left the church and started their own home church fellowship. I was in college when all of this took place, but when I got back from college and stuff I decided to join the fellowship group. (I had been connected with them loosely before the split.)

At first it seemed fine, but over time things got what now I see as very strange, but from the then perspective you don't notice it because it kreeps in ever so slowly you don't notice you've gotten off so bizarre! Believe me, if I tried to explain any of it, you'd be .

But yes, it was legalistic, you just couldn't see it that way. I've come to learn that the pattern the church followed is pretty much the pattern of a typical cult development. We were encouraged to find God's will for ourselves, but if it contradicted what the leader heard from God about you - "You're listening to your flesh!"

I was punished a lot (verbally and spiritually) for "operating in my flesh." I couldn't understand why I would try so hard to do right, only to find out I'd done wrong yet again. It wasn't until years later when I discovered I had chronic depression and MDE that "my flesh" was symptoms of chronic depression.

Edit: I searched for where I previously talked about this experience.

Here's one perspective

And here's another

I hope you'll forgive me for taking so long to reply to you but I got into another couple of threads and simply forgot to come back to this one. I do appreciate your candidness.

Not at all! I'm OK with talking about myself like this.

And I can understand busy and side-tracked!

Edited January 25, 2009 by nebula

[dcampsart]

Thanks

No need to thank me. Answer me truthfully. No matter what negative things you believe about yourself, would you ever truly want to get even with someone who attacks you? Do you fear confontation and would rather give up your rights many times to avoid warfare? If you've ever been in an actual physical battle, did you have a genuine "killer instinct" going on? If you're like me, you're probably like the dog who tangles with another dog... you gain the upper "paw"... standing over the submissive dog who is on his back with his paws in the air and exposing his throat. You see that the other dog has given up so you bare your teeth and growl viciously for a second or two. Then, you walk away... not feeling superior or victorious but guilty and terrible for going even that far!

. . . raising 5 kids... not to mention all the grandkids!

Wow, I didn't realize you were a grandfather!

Is that one of your grandkids in your profile pic, then?

Yes... his name is little "Willy" He's the one I mentioned in other threads about his broken neck being miraculously healed. You ought to see him now... normal as can be! Maybe a little TOO NORMAL!

It started out as a Bible study group of sorts at this one church my family went to.

At first it seemed fine, but over time things got what now I see as very strange, but from the then perspective you don't notice it because it kreeps in ever so slowly you don't notice you've gotten off so bizarre! Believe me, if I tried to explain any of it, you'd be .

No... I went through the exact sort of experience only they touted themselves to be a deliverance ministry. They referred to a book titled "Pigs in the Parlor" a lot! They had me believing that even a cough or a sneeze was demonic activity. I'm glad the Lord got me out of that fellowship!

Edit: I searched for where I previously talked about this experience.

Here's one perspective

And here's another

The first link didn't work. It said that it was outdated or something. The second one worked. Whoa... I've been around people like that too. Thanks be to God for leading you out also!

I need to ask you... again.... your complete honesty... as far as you know... have you forgiven the parent that caused you all the pain in your childhood?

[nebula]

Thanks

No need to thank me. Answer me truthfully. No matter what negative things you believe about yourself, would you ever truly want to get even with someone who attacks you? Do you fear confontation and would rather give up your rights many times to avoid warfare? If you've ever been in an actual physical battle, did you have a genuine "killer instinct" going on? If you're like me, you're probably like the dog who tangles with another dog... you gain the upper "paw"... standing over the submissive dog who is on his back with his paws in the air and exposing his throat. You see that the other dog has given up so you bare your teeth and growl viciously for a second or two. Then, you walk away... not feeling superior or victorious but guilty and terrible for going even that far!

I'm trying to learn how to not be a doormat yet still be a servant.

Or is that how to be a servant without being a doormat.

Guess it's the same thing.

Anyway, no I don't like being aggressive. Although at times I come across aggressive on the Board! But in real person, I am influenced too much on peoples' "vibes" (for lack of a better word), and I often keep more quiet.

So, no I don't like confrontation, suffer in order to keep the peace, etc.

Yes... his name is little "Willy" He's the one I mentioned in other threads about his broken neck being miraculously healed. You ought to see him now... normal as can be! Maybe a little TOO NORMAL!

I must have missed that post.

How awesome! Yeah God!!!!

I need to ask you... again.... your complete honesty... as far as you know... have you forgiven the parent that caused you all the pain in your childhood?

Yes I have. Thanks for asking.

[dcampsart]

I came across these words from a commentary by Marianne Dorman on a website. I thought they might correlate a little to what I posted initially in this thread. I don't know... it's left up to anyone's interpretation what the waters of Meribah could have to do with us today but I thought these words were interesting.

The manna God provided for food and the water from the rock for Israelites in the wilderness and under the Old Covenant took on new purpose under the New Covenant through Our Lord. The fourth gospel is very clear who provides the eternal bread and water of life in those "I Discourses". "I am the Bread"; "I am the Living Water". Indeed Our Lord Himself tells us that it was not Moses but my Father who gave the bread from heaven in the desert for the Israelites' sustenance. Now, however "the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world" (6.32-3). Unlike the manna in the wilderness, which satisfied immediate hunger, my Bread satisfies the eternal hunger. "Whosoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood will live for ever."

On the day of the festival of the Tabernacles, Our Lord also came to Jerusalem to celebrate this festival as noted. On the occasion described by John in Chapter seven, Our Lord makes it clear that those who are thirsty for spiritual food let them come to me. Unlike the water spurting from the rock in the desert to relieve natural thirst, the water I give you, is "living water" which will always refresh and replenish. This we know is the Spirit that Christ promised and was bestowed upon the Church at Pentecost and us at Baptism and all through our lives.

The Israelites of old were concerned with their natural needs in their journey of deliverance and God met them. But we have to remember that God provided those needs on a daily basis. "Give us this day our daily bread" is another way of describing the collection of daily manna. We too must be content to live from day to day. Yet as Christians we drink not from the bitter waters of Meribah but from the eternal Spring of sweetness. We shall never go thirsty or hungry as Christ through the Spirit is always replenishing us. Our deliverance is through Christ.

Paul speaks as much to us to-day as he did to the Corinthians c. A.D. 51:

Brethren, I would not have you ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that rock was Christ (ICor. 10:1 4).

[sweet~lady]

I came across these words from a commentary by Marianne Dorman on a website. I thought they might correlate a little to what I posted initially in this thread. I don't know... it's left up to anyone's interpretation what the waters of Meribah could have to do with us today but I thought these words were interesting.

I found this link which I thought might be useful..

http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/meribah.htm

I have no idea how this applies to us on an individual level except to say that as we come boldly before The Throne of Grace with absolute transparancy before God in the midst of our bitter trials and struggles, He meets us there with hope and healing..

God wanted to give you a word for the edification of the body of Christ and I think it's become sidetracked into personal trauma syndrome which we see as a very successful tool that the enemy uses to get us sidetracked, get our eyes off Christ and onto our problems that loom bigger than life at times. It really is a lot more simple than any of us care to think. It's found in forgiveness and releasing (letting go) of the old and embracing the new. The struggle lies mainly with the flesh and the will in this regard. Those two must be brought under the LORDSHIP of CHRIST.

Anyway this wasn't intended to be a sermon. It's really only what comes to mind as I attempt to follow this discussion. Perhaps, I am misunderstanding from the get go..

Christian Love and Blessings,

Wanda aka Sweet~Lady

[dcampsart]

I found this link which I thought might be useful..

http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/meribah.htm

I have no idea how this applies to us on an individual level except to say that as we come boldly before The Throne of Grace with absolute transparancy before God in the midst of our bitter trials and struggles, He meets us there with hope and healing..

God wanted to give you a word for the edification of the body of Christ and I think it's become sidetracked into personal trauma syndrome which we see as a very successful tool that the enemy uses to get us sidetracked, get our eyes off Christ and onto our problems that loom bigger than life at times. It really is a lot more simple than any of us care to think. It's found in forgiveness and releasing (letting go) of the old and embracing the new. The struggle lies mainly with the flesh and the will in this regard. Those two must be brought under the LORDSHIP of CHRIST.

Anyway this wasn't intended to be a sermon. It's really only what comes to mind as I attempt to follow this discussion. Perhaps, I am misunderstanding from the get go..

Christian Love and Blessings,

Wanda aka Sweet~Lady

No... you're not misunderstanding. I probed Nebula for some answers to questions I had that I realized later was getting off the OP. I really should've sent him a PM or two. He was polite enought to answer but he too probably wondered why I was getting off-track.

Thanks for the link. When I've read all the verses about what happened at Meribah, I've wondered if the word I thought I received from the Lord, was really something of my own imagination and not from him. I never heard of Meribah before I thought I heard it during the time of prayer. Although the Lord provided for them there, by allowing the water to gush forth, he graciously provided for them after their grumbling and contesting. It seems there would be a conflict between what I thought I heard where the Lord would say to come to the waters of Meribah for refreshing and strength but it was a place of bitterness.

Thanks for the feedback

[nebula]

I probed Nebula for some answers to questions I had that I realized later was getting off the OP. I really should've sent him a PM or two. He was polite enought to answer but he too probably wondered why I was getting off-track.

You might want to check my profile.

[traveller]

I probed Nebula for some answers to questions I had that I realized later was getting off the OP. I really should've sent him a PM or two. He was polite enought to answer but he too probably wondered why I was getting off-track.

You might want to check my profile.

Neb =

[Massorite]

I am extremely nervous to post this topic - especially after reading the warnings in Jeremiah pinned at the top!

I want to make it clear that I don't consider myself prophetic in any sense of the word. I have no idea of what that office is about or how to even operate in it... another reason for my trepidation! I simply want to share something that has been on my heart for a few days and maybe the members here can help me decipher this thing because... it will not leave me alone!!

I had no idea of where to start this thread but after finding this forum - I thought I'll take a chance. I also want to stress that I don't want to set myself up as if I'm guided by divine providence as if anybody would have to listen to anything I have to say. WHO AM I... NOBODY! Just someone who found this website after returning to the Lord a few years ago. When I followed the Lord in the past, I was big into TV ministries. I watched them all the time with minimal attention to the word. Now that I've done a 180 degree turn-around, all I care about is the WORD! For some reason, I can't watch the TV ministries anymore. Although I constantly stay in the word now, I started asking the Lord "Where is there anyone out there that will discuss all things bible with me?" I woke up one morning and had a strong urge to do a Google search for the words "Christian Forums"... hence, I found WCF almost immediately. Boy... here's where I'm really nervous... an experience I had a few days ago... I WANT TO BELIEVE concerns the people here on WCF but I don't fully understand what this is all about. Maybe you can help me and see where it goes from here. Otherwise, may it simply die and I'll know that I've spoken from my own vain imagination and, I HOPE the Lord will have mercy on my soul!

A few days ago, while at work, I started dwelling on why it is that I have this chronic pain for so long now and wondering why I can't seem to believe the Lord for my own healing. It seems I can believe for others' healing but not my own. Some may already know the story of how my grandson's broken neck was healed after a time of "remote" prayer and how that event helped turn me back to seeking God. Anyway, shortly after dwelling on this thought, I slowly but surely started to feel an immense "sadness" in my spirit. I started grieving inside and was afraid I might start crying in front of my fellow workers. I often secluded myself to get composure.

I felt this intense grieving the whole time driving home from work. I pulled in my driveway and sat in my Jeep for awhile wondering about this sadness I was feeling. I almost started weeping because something was building in me. I looked up and saw some water flowing on the ground next to my house after a snow melt was going on... we've had some recent heavy snowfall out here in Utah. As I stared at the water, I had some sort of peace come over me and I heard the words... "TELL MY PEOPLE TO COME TO THE WATERS OF MERIBAH FOR TIMES OF REFRESHMENT AND STRENGTH." This message in my head, heart or spirit... I don't know... was so strong I couldn't shake it off! I didn't recall ever hearing the word MERIBAH!!! On top of that, I thought, tell who? I'm nobody. I wouldn't even know who to tell!! I whispered the question "Who do I tell?" Immediately following were the words "THE PEOPLE ON WCF." I thought to myself... "YEAH, I can see me doing that... they'll think I'm NUTS!

Afterward, I went to the basement. Sat on the couch and just quietly sat there wondering what was wrong with me. I must admit, the feeling was very familiar but I hadn't felt this sort of burden or sense of sadness for a very long time. Out of nowhere and from deep down inside me, I broke out in tongues (sorry if that offends anyone). It was like a dam had burst open. It didn't last long but afterward, as plain as day... Psalm 88 was on my mind. I didn't find Psalm 88 to be very comforting but it sure spoke to my heart about my situation and circumstance as to why I've been suffering for so long. It scared me to be honest but commentaries I read about this Psalm helped when they all stressed how we should never give up on seeking the Lord no matter how dismal things may look. What really helped was hearing how God may afflict his children at times for a greater pupose, albeit unbeknown to them. Some commentaries pointed to how this chapter points to the extreme suffering of Christ and how his sole mission for coming to earth was to suffer and die for our sins. An example is found in this extraction below from Matthew Henry's commentary:

Probably the psalmist described his own case, yet he leads to Christ. Thus are we called to look unto Jesus, wounded and bruised for our iniquities. But the wrath of God poured the greatest bitterness into his cup. This weighed him down into darkness and the deep. (Ps 88:10-18)

What I found most comforting was how Psalm 88 has been regarded as most likely the "SADDEST" chapter in the whole bible!!

Up to this point, I've had no idea of what the word Meribah even meant until I started doing commentary searches on the internet. For the more scholarly, I'm sure it's all elemental and that everyone should know the story of Meribah is found in Numbers 20. I've known of the story of how Moses struck the first rock at Horeb and it gushed out water and that he was supposed to "SPEAK" to the second rock but I never knew about the second place being called Meribah. Now I know!

At Meribah (or Kadesh or both... not sure) the people again strove with Moses and God about whether or not he could provide water for them. Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle and sought the Lord. As you know, the Lord told Moses to "SPEAK" this time to the rock but, he didn't - he smote the rock twice. Commentaries remark how God, in his mercy, still provided for his people but punished Moses and Aaron severely for not believing and sanctifying him before the people. The commentaries tell of how God holds his leaders to a much higher standard than that of the general congregation.

I've wondered, if I really did hear the words, "TELL MY PEOPLE TO COME TO THE WATERS OF MERIBAH FOR TIMES OF REFRESHMENT AND STRENGTH.", and this saying was for WCF, why would people come to a place like that where contention and strife caused Moses to sin and strike the rock instead of speak to it. After reading some of the commentaries about the importance of how God wanted Moses to simply believe and SPEAK for provision and how commentators explained the importance of how people should simply SPEAK with God about what they need, maybe that's the idea behind people here at WCF coming to the waters of Mirabah for refreshment and strength. There seems to be some here on this site that are doubting their position in Christ way too much - as if they are basing their faith on their performance with God instead of simply trusting him and speaking to him for what they need. I truly do believe we don't have to beat the rock to get what we need out of him but, instead, simply believe and trust him to do what he promises.

8 But what does it say?