Bold Believer

Well said Celt. Here are some Biblical personifications of nations by their leaders: Egypt: Pharoah Babylon: Nebuchadnezzar Media-Persia: Cyrus the Mede Greece: Alexander the Great Rome: Nero Israel: Moses, David, Solomon

I won't touch the first question since not everyone agrees on just when the Time of jacob's Trouble is/was. I believe it is past. The idea of separation of Church and State has modern origins in communism. It is the 10th tenet of the Old Soviet Russian constitution. It is foreign to the United States constitution. It is anti-God. Christians are meant to be salt and light in all parts of life. It is written: When the righteous rule, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people lament. The Church as a whole is responsible for either GODLY or GODLESS government by its action or inaction politically.

Someone asked: 1). Why isn

This is a personification of a religious entity, not a nation. Nero in the same passage is the personification of Rome. Also, the term earth can also be translated 'land' as in land of Israel. Rev 13 is speaking of Nero and the unbelieving religious authorities. The horns on the lamb signify authority. 1st beast = nation 2nd beast = leader of nation Actually John goes back and forth throughout Revelation using the beast as a nation and also as its leadership. John is following up from Daniel with the beast analogy. Rome is Daniel's fourth (and final) nation-empire beast. Nero is the leader alive at the time of the writing, so for John to say "Nero blah blah" would have been to get his head lopped off. So the Holy Spirit had him write in Greek to HEBREW-oriented people who were familiar with Daniel and the symbols that prophet used in his book. Roman censors who would have read the letter (if any) would have passed right over the references and had no idea what John was writing about. The second beast is religious in nature. It appears one way (a lamb/righteous) but speaks another (dragon/evil). It has the authority to call fire down from heaven 'in the sight of men'. In other words, IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE the authority in the sight of God. The sacrifices were already made ineffective by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, so the authority of the religious leadership was non-existent.

This is a personification of a religious entity, not a nation. Nero in the same passage is the personification of Rome. Also, the term earth can also be translated 'land' as in land of Israel. Rev 13 is speaking of Nero and the unbelieving religious authorities. The horns on the lamb signify authority.

Honestly, no. That doesn't mean much though. Scripture tends to focus primarily on Israel and the nations surrounding her. Scripture has little to say about any other modern nation, modern prophecy teachings to the contrary. Revelation 20 mentions 'the nations which are at the four corners of the earth', but does not tell us the names of those countries. They could literally be any nations.

The Flood was no myth, it happened, what I mean is that there are non-Biblical accounts of it, most famous being the Gilgamesh Epic.

I was reviewing this thread and came across this and another statement regarding 'free will'. I find it interesting that Eve had to be DECEIVED into eating of the forbidden fruit. This implies that she would not have done so on her own initiative. Likewise, Adam was around the trees for however long before her deception and he never on his own went and disturbed them. It was not until after Eve ate and did not die that Adam partook of the fruit, and it was HIS ACTION, not hers, that brought sin into the world. As for free will, Adam and Eve were the only two beings who ever had true free will, and only Adam violated his. Eve didn't violate free will, she was deceived into doing what she did (hence a lesser punishment). All subsequent offspring of Adam received sinful will from Papa Adam. This sinful will overpowers our ability to make decent choices. Our nature is bent toward sin. We can only do as our nature permits us to do. In the flesh, our nature is sinful. So then it's not a matter of free will, but FREED WILL. Our will to sin must be freed by belief in Christ, which can only be received through being drawn by the Father and being given faith by the Father as a gift (John and Ephesians). There are many myths which I believe have roots in the Creation account. They were most likely passed down by descendants of Adam and after the Flood, Noah, and got corrupted by our sinful nature. Pandora's box is just one of them, the Titans another, and the Flood yet another. As for Satan's current location. In the air around the earth, busily gathering Magog to battle against the Holy City.

Some fringe group no doubt, trying to look big and bad. A few IAF bombs and they will run away into obscurity.

OK, not sure why the answer didn't come out, but... Vespasian is the eighth who is 'of the seventh'. He actually reigned. Galba BARELY reigned, the reign of the other two pocket emperors was negligible. John refers to Nero as a beast (personification), so the idea of referring to subsequent emperors as beasts is no surprise. The leader of a nation is often used to personify it.

Re 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.[/quote} Vespasian. Galba is considered by historians to be the seventh. Otho and Vitellus didn't really reign. Galba BARELY reigned. Nero is called a beast (and early Christians called him THE Beast) so John's reference to more beasts doesn't surprise me. .

You mean 6, 7, and 8th HEADS? There were only 4 beast-nations. Reckoning from Julius Caesar, the 6th head was Nero, then Galba (who lasted only a little while per John and history) and Galba was replaced by Otho, then Vitellus, then Titus Vespasian, who happened to be the father of General Titus, the commander of the Roman Armies which took Jerusalem. Galba, Otho and Vitellus are referred to in history as the pocket emperors, because none of them lasted long due to the civil war after Nero's death. Nero is the 6th and Vespasian the 7th full emperor. Vespasian was the emperor at the siege of Jerusalem.

Chapter 13 1. A Beast rises out of the sea. 2. Power given to the Beast by the Dragon. 3. One of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound was healed. 4. Power given to continue forty-two months. 5. A second lamb-like Beast has the voice of the Dragon and is in authority over the Seven-Headed Beast. 6. The Number of the Beast. 1. Rome. Daniel's Fourth Beast which crushes and devours everything before it. The mightiest empire the world will ever know. Rome is personified here by Nero, the dictator alive and actively persecuting the church at the time. 2. Power is given to the beast by the dragon. In this case, Satan gets permission to persecute the Church through Rome/Nero. 3. The wounded head is Nero. He committed suicide by plunging a sword through his throat. The deadly wound was healed when another emperor replaced him, Galba, but he didn't last long. Likewise, the Empire itself was wounded and plunged into civil war at Nero's demise. The question of the day was: "Will Rome survive?" (Hence the next verses in context.) 4, Nero persecuted the church for a period of 42 months. 5. The lamb-like beast is not IN AUTHORITY over the beast, it carries the authority of the Beast, it exercises all of the power of the Beast. This beast is religious. It can even call fire down from heaven. The wicked religious authorities, scribes and high priest responsible for aiding the Roman persecution. Paul had been one of them at one time. (Acts 9:1) These people had the authority (in the eyes of the people) to call down fire to consume the sacrifices. 6. Ksr Nrwn=666. This is in Hebrew gematria, the number-letter system of the day. It's not a tattoo, it's not a stamp, it's not a literal mark. It IS however the exact opposite of the admonition of God in Deuteronomy 6. Instead of the Commands of God being worn on the forehead and right hand, the Commands of the Emperor replace them in the hearts and minds. The forehead is the mind; the right hand, the deeds and actions.

Interesting. Now, if I eat pork only rarely, what are my chances? BTW, chitlins are as nasty as one can get. I would not eat them if I was forced. Ham on occasion. Bacon rarely anymore. No bloody meat. So, I am at least partly kosher. As far as I know, Christian theologians don't state emphatically that smoking is a sin. Smoking is a choice one makes, a bad one, yes, but hardly a sin. I don't do it because I think it makes you smell like an ash tray and brings impurities into the body. As far as I know, Scripture has nothing to say about smoking. If one wants to do it, they can. Not this guy though. Likewise, shellfish is high in cholesterol, which will eventually kill you as well. And it's treyf too, correct? I eat shrimp once in a blue moon. (In other words, hardly at all.) I drink little alcohol, which Christian teachers often preach against, forgetting that even Yeshua drank yayin (wine). Wine is actually good for you doctors are now saying. Beer as well, on occasion. Getting stinky drunk is something else altogether, a matter of self control. So I see us as in agreement for the most part. The Cornelius incident is one that seems to be the source of the kosher/non-kosher argument. God told Peter to kill and eat unclean things, Peter replied, LORD, I cannot. And God told Him that what He had cleansed was not unclean. The understanding though is that G-d was not referring to the food, but to the gentiles, whom Yeshua had died for as well as the Jews. Some people understand that to mean that all foods are clean for eating. My understanding of Shabbat is not a day in particular, but a time of rest one day a week. Since I don't use the same calendar as you do apparently, my seventh day and yours may be different because my has 365 days and yours 360.

not sure i'm following you on this one, Yacov. as a gentile, i am not allowed what? (can't quite figure out what word was supposed to go in there ) and how does the law not being in force make Jesus not the Jewish Messiah? just a little in the dark here about where you're coming from with these. (i had kind of a tough time with the getting to heaven faster thing, but the lightbulb finally when on with that one ) I had said earlier that as a Gentile, I eat pork now and then and that as a Gentile, I was allowed.

Then what about what Rav Shaul wrote, Yacov? There is no Jew, Greek or other race in Yeshua. Your contention that none of the disciples were Christians is a straw man. If you believe that Yeshua died for your sins and rose from the dead, YOU ARE CHRISTIAN. You may be racially Jewish, but you are not a Jew in the religious sense, you're a Jewish Believer. Regardless of whether Constantine changed the calendar or not, we still will not know when Yeshua will come. We do know this however: Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. I was born a Jew and I will die a Jew. Period. No straw for the disciples. They were born Jewish and they died Jewish. I am not the one who is making a straw here. Yes, I am an Ultra-Right Orthodox Jew. We do what day on the Jewish calendar Yeshua will come, if He is indeed The Messiah of Israel - a Jewish Messiah. Yeshua was born a Jew and died on the execution stake as an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi and Pharisee. When Yeshua stated "No man knows the day nor the hour," His disciples knew exactly what He meant. Yeshua boldly stated that He was coming on Rosh Hashanah - the Jewish New Year. Anyone who studies the biblical calendar would know that the Priests in the Temple has to know when the new moon came so that they would always be in the right seasons for the Appointed Times of ADONAI. The last day of the month and the first day of the new month - no one knew the day nor the hour. Also, there are signs in the heavens in 2014 and 2015 that states very clearly that The Messiah is preparing this world for His Coming. IF He is? Either He is, or He isn't my Hebrew friend. I will agree that Yeshua, Cephas and Shaul did not intend a new religion, but rather a new understanding of the former. No sacrifices, since Yeshua died for our sins. No more dietary laws and ceremonial law, since Yeshua is the fulfillment of the shadow. Still, belief in Yeshua is required for salvation. You can call yourself a believing Jew if you like, but to deny that as a believing Jew, you're also a Christian in the sense of believing in the Christ is self-defeating. Yeshua was not an Orthodox Rabbi in the sense you're thinking of. Would He not have had to study under Gamaliel or one of the other teachers of the day to be considered a Rabbi by those in authority at the time in Judaism? And Yeshua was hardly a Pharisee. It was the Pharisees whom he was MOST at odds with. He was constantly rebuking them for their interpretations of Scripture. At one point He even told them that they made their proselytes double the sons of hell that they were. Finally, he told them that they were guilty of all of the righteous blood from Abel to Zechariah and that their house would be left to them desolate (which it was in 70 AD). But that was THEM. Not modern Jews. This is where so many anti-Semites make their crucial error. They try in vain to extend the corrective punishment of the apostate Jews of Yeshua's time to ALL Jews down through the ages. God is no longer angry with Israel. The Days of Vengeance were fulfilled in 70 AD and the time of Jacob's Trouble is over. You might ask yourself this question Yacov. What better way to keep Israel from experiencing salvation does HaSatan have than to make them think: 1. That everyone who claims to be a Christian IS a Christian; and 2. To keep Jews and Christians quarreling amongst themselves at some level. As for Moschiach preparing the earth for His coming, she's been groaning for her redemption practically since He left, so don't find that any definitive indicator of the Parousia except in the sense that He IS coming. 1) No sacrifices. Then do not prepare a meal offering for a family when someone passes away. That is a sacrifice and is part of the sacrificial system. 2) I'm not sure what you mean by self-defeating. Not scriptural. 3) He studied in the school of Hillel. So yes. Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. He did not agree with all their teachings, hwoever, he disagreed with all the schools of the day on some issues, but not all. 4) If Yeshua was nto a Pharisee they how could he argu with them? He would have to be taught the Phariseeical ways or he could not drash. He was a Torah observant Jew. Many people were affiliated with the party of Pharisees. Being a Pharisee is a good thing. 5) Double the sons of what? Never read that. 6) All the righteous blood? What? Where are u getting your information. 7) Not all Jews were apostate in Yeshua's day. Stop spreading false rumors. 8) The time of Jacob's Trouble is today! 9) I am a Pharisee myself. I should know. Being a Pharisee yesterday or today is like being a Republican or an anti-semite democrat/saducee in the US. 10) What better way for christians to make the Jewish Messiah seem so gentile. 1. A meal offering, as in making dinner for those who have suffered a loss? I think of that as a charitable act rather than a sacrifice. 2. You are a Jewish believer in Yeshua ha Moschiach, yes? Then by virtue of that fact, you are also a Christian because you believe that Yeshua is Moschiach(Christos in Greek). So to say "I believe in Yeshua ha Moschiach, but I'm not a Christian is paradoxical to say the least. 3. Where is your evidence that Yeshua studied in Hillel's shul? 4. He may well have been familiar with the ways of the Temple, but I don't believe he was a Pharisee in the absolute sense of the term. 5. Mattiyahu 23:15 (Hebrew names version) Woe to you, Sofrim and Perushim, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehinnom as yourselves. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. (New King James version) 6. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Mt 23:27-38 7. No, all of the Jews were NOT apostate. But the ones Jesus continually rebuked and continually admonished WERE. It was the very reason he DID so. They were perverting the Scriptures to their own ways. And they got their punishment in 70 AD. (See Mt 23 above where Jesus says "All these things shall come upon this generation." He meant the one he was speaking to.) 8. Disagree. 9. Whether or not you are a Perushim is of little matter to the conversation Yacov. 10. Yeshua is LORD of all men, Jews AND Gentiles. But when He was here, He was Jewish and Torah observant. That was necessary. The Council at Yerushalyim in Acts 15 however told Paul and his entourage that Gentiles were not to be held to the Law of Moses, which James readily admitted was impossible to keep. As Gentlies, we're to keep ourselves from meat offered to idols, strangled meat, and fornication. That's IT. (Acts 15:29) 1. Study the sacrificial system and you will knwo what I am talking about. Also, Acts 10 and 11 spefically require a shelamim offering or I am in violation of Torah because I am on this website. Many christian theologians consider this to be evidence for eating a pig. NOT! 2. If you understood history and the Torah, you would agree with me. 3. The Catechisms and other ancient Rabbinical Writings. If you knwo anything about Hillel, you also know that he taught the poor people Torah. It was the only school that did that in Yeshua's day. 4. Then you reject is authority for I am not read one christian bible that would disagree with that point. He was always called Rabbi. All Rabbi's were part of the party of Pharisee's. 5. Rabbi Yeshua restricts his denunciation to a handful of Pharisee's not to the whole group. Please stop making Anti-Semitic statements. If he were speaking about ALL of the Pharisee's then Yeshua would have renounced the Torah all together for G-d commanded Moshe to start the Phariseal System. Also, you would have to count ALL the Jewish Prophets from Moshe to Yeshua as Anti-Semitic and all of them to be false prophets. Now, I think many people would agree that the previous statement that Moshe to Yeshua are not false prophets. 6. Same as #5. Only a specific group of Pharisees. Otherwise, you call Paul, Gamaliel, Josephus and all the other friends of Yeshua that were Pharisees like Joseph of Arimethea in the same boat. 7. And many people like myself keep rebuking the same type of people - Jew and Gentile alike today for the same reasons. Please stop with your Anti-Semitic statements. I do not think you to be an Anti-Semite. 8. Ok. If that is all you have to do to be a beleiver in Yeshua then where in scripture does your Pastor get his scriptural authority to get his paycheck? I am the LAST guy in the world to be anti-Semitic. And yes, the Talmudim of Yeshua called him teacher, because he taught. As for whether he studied under Hillel, I have never seen evidence one way or the other. Obviously believing Pharisees are not included in Yeshua's rebukes. But there were enough apostates in both Sofrim and Perushim to actually get Yeshua crucified, and it was THOSE and the people who followed them, whom the wrath of G-d fell upon in 70 AD. They led the people to worship Caesar and declare that they had no king but Caesar. While God had Moshe start the Phariseal system, the apostates perverted it into something that Yeshua constantly had to rebuke them for. Actually, I'm not 100% sure that pastors should get a paycheck. Paul worked. Peter worked. There are an awful lot of pastors living high on the money given by well-meaning parishioners. Still, the ox who treads the grain should not be muzzled. As for eating pork...now and then. I'm a Gentile, we're allowed. Yes, the ox is part of the Law that the christian theologians keep saying they do not have to follow since they are under the new covenant. So pastors cannot use that verse for claiming a paycheck. No. Yeshua did not rebuke them constantly for perverting the system. It was certain pharisees that perverted the system. Not all had perverted the system. FYI - Every anti-semite uses the claim that they believe in Jesus and do not have to be obedient to the law. As a gentile, you are not allowed per scripture, but it does not make you any less of a beleiver. You do, hwoever, get to heaven faster than those of us who are obedient to Yeshua's commandments. I have not always been obedient in that same area either, but the law is still in force or Yeshua is not the Jewish Messiah of Israel. How then do you understand these verses? Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one who believes. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. As I understand, I am under NO obligation to obey dietary and ceremonial laws, only the moral law (10 Living Words), which is the immutable standard of our Lord. Paul obeyed some customs, so as not to offend, but emphatically stated that he was not under law but under grace. Now if I lived in Israel, it would be sin for me to eat treyf because it causes offense. But I live here in the US, far from any Jewish people. So I am NOT sinning or in violation of the Law. Is it healthier to eat Kosher? Good question. I do follow the customs set down by Elder James. No blood, no fornication. (Don't have to worry about idol-meat anymore). Bloody meat is nasty anyway. As for pork, I don't even eat it that often; I prefer beef or chicken. G-d doesn't hold Gentiles to the dietary laws. They can obey if they like, but there is no obligation. That doesn't make me an anti-semite and I don't know why you say it does. Now, if I told you that YOU shouldn't obey the dietary laws, I'd be causing you to stumble in your conscience and I would be guilty of sin, because you are convinced that you should obey them, and to that I say omeyn. If I ever come to your house, I will eat kosher; if you ever come to mine, I won't serve treyf.

I'd say it's an either or situation. We're not under Law so whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday is up to us. Jewish Believers gather on Shabbat. Gentile Believers gather on the first day. Whichever day one feels most comfortable with and/or your conscience dictates. As long as we gather.

The point you are not getting is Jesus never said we will never know. Let's take a closer look at the scripture, the words and the meaning of these words. Matthew 24:36 (King James Version) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. knoweth: Strong's Number: 1492 Eido 1. to see 1. to perceive with the eyes 2. to perceive by any of the senses 3. to perceive, notice, discern, discover 4. to see1. i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything 2. to pay attention, observe 3. to see about something2. i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it 1. to inspect, examine 2. to look at, behold1. to experience any state or condition 2. to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit 3. to know 1. to know of anything 2. to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive 1. of any fact 2. the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning 3. to know how, to be skilled in 3. to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to no: Strong's Number: 3762 Oudeis 1. no one, nothing The whole phrase is seen in this form of communication: The New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 5758 Tense, Voice and Mood Word Tense Perfect The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time." Certain antiquated verb forms in Greek, such as those related to seeing (eidw) or knowing (oida) will use the perfect tense in a manner equivalent to the normal past tense. These few cases are exception to the normal rule and do not alter the normal connotation of the perfect tense stated above. Word Mood Indicative The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood. With this information, I bring to you that no one will ever have knowledge of the day or hour, and does not need to be repeated, being said once and for all. Good try Onelight but I am far from convinced by your effort. I am not saying that anyone will ever know the day or hour, what I am say is that Jesus did not say we wouldn't, and I am sticking to that opinion even after your diligent word study. And what is that opinion based upon? Especially given the evidence presented above It is based on what Jesus said as He said it without adding or subtracting anything from it. Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only It says what it says and that is all it says. No one knows the day or hour not that no one would ever know. If you read through some of my previous post I have given scriptural evidence that it may be possible that the tribulational saints will know the timing of Christ return. You're assuming a fact not in evidence. What if the historical position is correct and the tribulation was the events of 70AD? In Acts the disciples are told that it is not for them to know the times which the Father has appointed regarding the restoration of the kingdom, and in Ch 3, Jesus will NOT come until all things are restored to a pre-fall state (apokatastasis). There is no Scriptural evidence that the day and hour will ever be revealed because only the Father knows and has chosen not reveal it to the Son. Why then would He reveal it to US?

No, I agree--the disciples didn't think it bad. However, the JEWS thought it bad when they were persecuted by so called "Christians" for 2000 years. Mention in casual conversation that you are a Christian to a Jew in Israel, count on getting spit on. Try to witness to a Jew, and be called a Crusader, a word that is tantamount to being called a murderer in Israel. You don't think it's bad when Jews have a label of being "baby-killers" and of course there's that infamous Blood Libel they were slapped with, being accused of deicide (killing Jesus). How much more can I bring up to remind the so called "Christian church" of what they have done with Jews? Spanish Inquisition? Russian pogroms? Oh, and let's not forget the Shoah, which SOME PEOPLE ARE NOW DENYING HAPPENED. Getting back to the OP, THIS is why the Jews prefer to use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD. They don't want to be reminded of what happened to their ancestors. This is why BC and AD are so insulting to Jews. It's not anything to do with PC nonsense. It's a reminder to the Jews that people think they are an "inferior race" which they certainly are NOT. Jews have been using BCE and CE long before the PC nonsense started up---close to 1000 years. I studied all this stuff. I went into gruesome detail as to what happened with our Jewish brethren. I DARE not insult them with trivial things such as BC and AD. Read the latest regarding Bishop Williamson and his Shoah-denying, and perhaps you will understand why the Jews are already in an uproar. a. So I will thank you to quit throwing the baby out with the bathwater Anita dear, and while I'm at it, I might remind you that SOME Jews WERE responsible for Jesus getting crucified and some (Paul included) persecuted Believers in the early days. They did it in ignorance. And if any real Believers were responsible for doing evil to the Jewish people, they too acted in ignorance. We as people tend to follow the things we're taught by our leaders, whether political or religious. Believers both Jewish AND Gentile need to stand up and be counted in these things. All accusing the entire Church will do is create more animosity at a time when solidarity is what we really need. I might remind you, Bold Believer, DEAR, that NO Jews were responsible for putting Jesus on the Cross. In fact, NO ONE was. Jesus did it for ALL OF US. He just allowed the people at the time in charge to do it. And if you will please note, I am not the one accusing the entire Church---the Jews are. They are the offended in this case. I have said "so called Christian believers". I have NEVER, EVER, accused the Church as a whole, so please stop putting words in my mouth. All I know is, I personally will not do ANYTHING that will insult God's people, the Jews. My responsibility, as is that of all the Christian church, is to love them. a. That's my point Anita...none of us is without guilt. So Jews have no reason to complain, anymore than we do, we're all guilty. Jew and Gentile alike.

JESUS really said no one knew the exact time at the time HE said it. HE never said no one would ever know the day or the hour, HE just said no one did at that time. That is twisting scripture. Is not God the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? By your words, every piece of scripture holds no water for today, for it was written for those that lived back in the day and has no truthful meaning for any of us today. No, what I am saying is that people are reading into what JESUS stated. HE never said that we would never know. HE gave us signs and seasons. HE never said that we would never know. If you can show me where JESUS said we would never know, then I will agree with you. I am not saying that anyone will know or that anyone does know. The scripture is JESUS talking to people before HIS death and the giving of the HOLY SPIRIT. If GOD wants to reveal the day and the hour to someone, or all of us, through the HOLY SPIRIT, this scripture does not say HE can not do that. It does not say no one will ever know, it only states that no one knew at that time. That is not twisting scripture, that is taking scripture for exactly what it says. HE never said we would never know. He gave us general things that would occur about the time of his coming. We're seeing them even now. Noahic level violence. Sodom level homosexuality and immorality, and yet life as usual...people get married, give their daughters in marriage and la-de-da until Kaboom. (This is one reason I personally don't buy into the whole tribulation/mark of the beast futuristic scenario, that would make it TOO obvious, when Jesus' words tend to make it out to be more less life as usual.)

No, I agree--the disciples didn't think it bad. However, the JEWS thought it bad when they were persecuted by so called "Christians" for 2000 years. Mention in casual conversation that you are a Christian to a Jew in Israel, count on getting spit on. Try to witness to a Jew, and be called a Crusader, a word that is tantamount to being called a murderer in Israel. You don't think it's bad when Jews have a label of being "baby-killers" and of course there's that infamous Blood Libel they were slapped with, being accused of deicide (killing Jesus). How much more can I bring up to remind the so called "Christian church" of what they have done with Jews? Spanish Inquisition? Russian pogroms? Oh, and let's not forget the Shoah, which SOME PEOPLE ARE NOW DENYING HAPPENED. Getting back to the OP, THIS is why the Jews prefer to use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD. They don't want to be reminded of what happened to their ancestors. This is why BC and AD are so insulting to Jews. It's not anything to do with PC nonsense. It's a reminder to the Jews that people think they are an "inferior race" which they certainly are NOT. Jews have been using BCE and CE long before the PC nonsense started up---close to 1000 years. I studied all this stuff. I went into gruesome detail as to what happened with our Jewish brethren. I DARE not insult them with trivial things such as BC and AD. Read the latest regarding Bishop Williamson and his Shoah-denying, and perhaps you will understand why the Jews are already in an uproar. a. Only an idiot could deny the Holocaust. There is ample proof of what the Nazis did. But do you REALLY think that this Williamson fellow is a Believer? C'mon, be honest. What else does he deny? What is his theology? You're right ready to declare this guy a Believer when he denies visible truth. I was born in a hospital, so I guess I'm a doctor, LOL? I know how to bandage wounds and do some doctor stuff. Just because this Williamson person is a "bishop" doesn't mean he's a Believer any more than I'm a doctor. So I will thank you to quit throwing the baby out with the bathwater Anita dear, and while I'm at it, I might remind you that SOME Jews WERE responsible for Jesus getting crucified and some (Paul included) persecuted Believers in the early days. They did it in ignorance. And if any real Believers were responsible for doing evil to the Jewish people, they too acted in ignorance. We as people tend to follow the things we're taught by our leaders, whether political or religious. Believers both Jewish AND Gentile need to stand up and be counted in these things. All accusing the entire Church will do is create more animosity at a time when solidarity is what we really need.

Please you show me where us "think headed Believers" have set a date. What I posted from George is very interesting and did not set any date as to His return, only stated a "season". Did you not read " I believe it's going to be an interesting 7 years"? Why is it that you feel the need to attack people by calling them names? Matthew 7:20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Galatians 5:22-23 (New King James Version) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Some of your posts do not show any of the fruit of the Spirit, as in this one. Friend, I include myself in there. We ARE always trying to say this year or that year. Every time I turn around, I see or hear of some Believer (not just here) trying to say that the LORD is coming in (fill in the blank). All it does is make us look silly. Jesus tells us no man knows the time, we run right out and do what? Try to figure it out. Now, where I come, that's bein' thick headed. I wasn't even referring to what you posted. I'm using a generalization. It's obvious that He is coming sooner than he was yesterday, but it's also obvious that WE don't know when. I'm not one for pious platitudes. I call a spade a spade. I'm more Peter than Paul. More son of thunder like John and James bar Zebedee. My point was that we as believers tend to do exactly what Jesus said NOT to do...worry about when he's coming. For all we know it's in the next 30 seconds or the next 100 years. So yes, WE are thick headed.

Hmmm, what's even more interesting is that when we think of the fact that Earth was once a GREEN paradise with a proper CO2 balance, things and people lived longer. Our CO2 balance is out of whack.

No man knows either day OR the hour. You can calculate until Gehenna becomes an ice rink, you won't be right. When will we Believers get it through our thick skulls that it's on GOD's time, not ours. Yeshua must be held in heaven until the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21). Gog and Magog are doing their thing, so it may not be too long, but to say this day or that year is inviting yourself to being made to look silly. It won't catch US unaware because we are in Messiah. It's the godless who will be caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

These are things that NEED discussed. It's hard for me as a Gentile Believer to hear Jewish Believers accuse us of doing X, Y or Z when IT WASN'T US. It was people claiming to BE us (for the most part). I know Luther had a problem with Jews, and that's HIS problem. My best guess is that it came from false teachings within Roman Catholicism of that time. Do remember that before Shaul was Paul, he ordered and carried out the persecution of Believers. Should we hold that against Rav Shaul? No. And I doubt that Jewish Believers do. So why can't the things which Yod and Yacov rightly mention be qualified as being done by FALSE Christians? Or sadly misled Christians. Instead, REAL Christians get lumped in the fakes and phonies and that's WRONG too. I don't know of any Gentile Believers who go about saying that all Jews are guilty of the death of Jesus. The fact is, WE'RE ALL GUILTY because we're all in Adam, and Adam brought sin into the world. The Church is made up of Believers of all nations. Making distinctions is violating what Paul told us specifically NOT to do. There is no distinction between Jews and Gentile Believers. So then, WHY are any being made? Should Believers of all stripes be more Jewish in their celebrations? Personally, yes. Pasch rather than Easter, Feast of Tabernacles rather than Christmas. We should learn more of our roots. Should we go to Church on Saturday instead of Sunday? A case can be made for both days, so celebrate the one which your conscience dictates. And use the calendar which you're most comfortable with.