Romans 14

The OP transformed into pointing fingers though. You know how easily that can happen.

It amazes me how people can sit back and take "pot shots" at those who are in authority over us. We must be careful in those people (Glenn Beck) we trust to form our opinions from, especially when much his show is based off of questionable accusations. Accusations (especially when they're not true, or when they're petty), comes from Satan himself, as it is his nature (Revelation 12:10, Zechariah 3:1, In the KJV, the word resist can be interchanged with the word accuse). If were so "spiritual" as some seem to think, by calling Obama the antichrist, the surely they can discern a means of a solution. I thought the antichrist is defined as one who denies Jesus Christ as Lord (1 John 2:22). Surely that applies more than just a President. Anyway, let's go to some examples of accusors in the Bible.... Korah accused Moses and Aaron of lifting themselves over everyone else (Numbers 16:1-3). It's ironic how Korah was guilty of the very same thing he accused them of (verse 7). In the book of Job, Satan goes in the presence of God to accuse Job of being loyal to God, only because of the blessings that he has (Job 1:9-11). Job's friends then accused him of hidden sin, not being aware of the hidden sin of misrepresenting God (Job 42:7), and for not being able to prove Job's sin, told in Job chapter 32. Remember the Pharisees, bringing the adulterous woman to Jesus, as found in John 8:1-11? Instead of finding fault with others, let's put more time in talking about the faultless one, Jesus Christ, who makes all of us complete. Let us not become deceived by Satan into accusing others. Even if there is a legimate fault with another, then we who are spiritual will seek to correct, and then restore the individual. Since most of us don't have access to the President, then we do so through prayer to God, not through slandering another's name. May God bless you.

I think this has kind of gotten off track, because the disagreement went from whether or not we should attend church to proving who is right or not. I don

The Bible says in Romans 10:13- 17 [i]"13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." I don't know what you mean by "for a Pastor to stay in business", as if they determine what happens with their ministry. A Pastor that's called of God to preach will be fully equipped in anything that God leads them to do. If you're implying that there are preachers that are not called, well the Bible warns us about that as well, but don't be mislead into thinking that there aren't any true Pastors. Some of the things that you quoted from the Bible you used erronously, and only further emphasizes why we need to have spiritual leaders to feed us with the Word of God correctly. I'll quote some of your examples: 1) Jesus became the outer temple and that we are the inner. I don't know what you mean with this, as the Bible refers to these as how close we can get to God. Jesus' sacrifice allowed us to have access to the Holy of Holies (Hebrews 9), or inner court, so I don't understand what you mean. Please explain. 2) that there should be no public prayer and that we should not worship with "lips"/sound, but instead go into our room and shut the door when we pray. When Jesus said this, He didn't say not to worship publicly, but not to do as the hypocrites did, which was to pray publicly, to be seen of men. There are times in the Bible in which there was public prayer, but Jesus focused on the heart of the matter (Matthew 6:5-7). "What's the reason for those who are publicly praying?", is the question that Jesus poses .3) Water baptism is the indwelling consecration of having our spirit become compatible with God's. Water baptism is for repentence, not consecration, as stated in Matthew 3:11. There is another type of baptism that Jesus talks about which is with the Holy Spirit and fire. We have to be careful in rightly dividing the Word of God (2 Tim 2:15), or we will be teaching a heretical doctrine. We must be called to preach and teach the Word of God. Sure we receive revelation from God, but that in itself doesn't warrant us to become a teacher of His Word. There is a training period (no definate time), where we sit under the authority of another (whether God or man), and at God's timing, we walk in the assignment that He gives us. Sir, may God bless you.

I understand where you come from as far as anyone can be used by God in certain situations. Indeed, God is not a respecter of persons in getting His will done. I didn't think that you discredited any particular church, in fact I would hope that anyone who considered joining or attending a church to pray to God on leading them. You're definately right on how people can attend church, painting a picture of themselves, and then live a different type of life when away. That's all the more reason for those who are true worshippers to attend church, so that people who are living a double life can see our lights, glorify God, and change their ways. Some don't do it maliciously, just through ignorance, and need to witness the real thing. As long as we share the same spirit of God, which includes the desire that all people will become saved, then we won't give up on anyone who is still alive. I really enjoy fellowshipping with you. May God continue to bless you brother.

You're painting with such a very broad brush, that you may confuse some people about the importance of attending church (excuse me, public worship). True indeed, there are certain aspects in which mankind has become ritualistic, and thus can lead believers to minimize the importance of our individual relationship with God. But to justify not attending public worship, when Jesus Himself regularly attended the sanctuary is wrong, and will make us more susceptible to the devil. Proverbs 18:1 states, "Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom". We have to be careful in trying to make things to suit our individual will instead of God's will. Hebrews 10:25 talks about not forsaking the fellowshipping of our brethren, as there is strength and unity in numbers of Christians. Sometimes we can be naive in thinking that once we're saved that there shouldn't be any more problems, especially with our interactions with people in the church. We will have tribulation (it comes with the territory of Christ), but it's our response to it determines our true obedience to God. The body of Christ is made up of so many parts, and we get to witness them in our fellow saints (and admire the Christ in them). The basis of God and Christ is love, and part of that love defined in 1 Cor 13 is seeing the best in everybody. How can we say we love God, (who we can't see), but cannot love our fellow brethren, (whom we can see)? Satan tries to get us to focus on the faults of others, so he can try to influence us to make an excuse to worship with others. God bless.

All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus Christ came to earth to die as a sacrifice for everyone sins. Confession of this from your heart brings Salvation Romans 10: 9-10. We cannot fill the void in our hearts with anything else, because that's how God designed us. Sex, alcohol, money, and anything else serves only as a temporary satisfaction. When you pray to God, talk to Him as you talked to those on the forum, and watch Him prove Himself to you. Like you said, He's an all mighty being, but He loves each and everyone of us individually. God bless you.

+1000 to this post, please don't just go start up a study group! I know with all the negative things we hear about today's churches, but if you're sincerely seeking God and His will, He will guide you a church that's best for you spiritually. One thing that's not stressed enough is the importance of a Godly Pastor, whose heart is of the same nature of God. I'm truly blessed to have one, and although I don't understand or agree with everything he does, I submit my self to him as a service to God. If what he asks me to do isn't defined as sin by the Word of God, then I am to submit to his authority. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to them [continually recognizing their authority over you], for they are constantly keeping watch over your souls and guarding your spiritual welfare, as men who will have to render an account [of their trust]. [Do your part to] let them do this with gladness and not with sighing and groaning, for that would not be profitable to you [either]." If you are led by God, (and not your own spirit), then you will be brought to where you belong. God bless you.

You're only talking about situations in which a couple is currently married and saved. Where you quoted Mark 10 involved the Pharisees, who considered themselves righteous and saved. There are so many situations that involve people, that you cannot use that as a blanket statement to everyone. What if someone that's not saved, then married, but later becomes saved, but his/her spouse isn't? What about someone who was married and divorced while unsaved, but becomes saved? Do they marry again. What you stated from the scriptures is true, but only applies to those who may have intentions of divorcing their spouses for ungodly reasons. May I ask, what is your individual situation? I re-read your post, and understand that you applied your answer to the poll only. I apologize, but I don't want anyone else to be led to automatically applying your answer to their individual situation. Sry about that. You were right the first time. You can't just address some scriptures to be for certain biblical figures. Whether you are saved or not saved Jesus' commandments on remarriage apply as you will notice that he says that from the beginning of creation it was intended that man and woman get married and no man can divorce/separate them. You will not find any of your reason found in what Jesus stated other than it was intended for man and woman to marry without divorce since the the creation. Jesus' reasons for divorce and remarriage is a blanket answer. I can leave my spouse for any reason under the sun, but I can only remarry if my spouse cheated on me or if they are dead. Anything outside of this is adding to it. Let's say if a man was married and divorced while being unsaved. If he re-marries after becoming saved,to someone else, does he go to hell? The point that you missing is that Jesus doesn't separate then like you are doing. Whether you commit a sin as a sinner or a Christian it is still a sin. What God looks at is what you do with it. The reason why we become Christians is because we have told God that we will surrender our own lives to live after his commandments and that includes that if we divorce and remarry save for the cause of fornication we are living in adultery and no adulterer will enter into heaven. I wouldn't be so rigid on who God will allow to enter into Heaven or not. You must also remember that what you judge will be jugded upon yourself (Matthew 7:1-5), and the merciful will obtain mercy. If you haven't committed physical adultery, I'm quite sure you have done so in your heart (we all have), like Jesus says in Matthew 5:27- 32. Read Romans 2:19-22, especially in the Amplified version, which talks about adultery in thought as well. The sin of adultery doesn't hang over someone's head and automatically cause them to go to hell. Let God be the judge on who goes to hell, and let us learn what this means (Please read Matthew 9:13) Please tell me if you have lived totally sin free since you've become saved. I'm really trying not to be funny, but we cannot allow the leaven of the Pharisees creep into our spirits. God has a way of putting our pride and lack of mercy into check. God bless you.

You're only talking about situations in which a couple is currently married and saved. Where you quoted Mark 10 involved the Pharisees, who considered themselves righteous and saved. There are so many situations that involve people, that you cannot use that as a blanket statement to everyone. What if someone that's not saved, then married, but later becomes saved, but his/her spouse isn't? What about someone who was married and divorced while unsaved, but becomes saved? Do they marry again. What you stated from the scriptures is true, but only applies to those who may have intentions of divorcing their spouses for ungodly reasons. May I ask, what is your individual situation? I re-read your post, and understand that you applied your answer to the poll only. I apologize, but I don't want anyone else to be led to automatically applying your answer to their individual situation. Sry about that. You were right the first time. You can't just address some scriptures to be for certain biblical figures. Whether you are saved or not saved Jesus' commandments on remarriage apply as you will notice that he says that from the beginning of creation it was intended that man and woman get married and no man can divorce/separate them. You will not find any of your reason found in what Jesus stated other than it was intended for man and woman to marry without divorce since the the creation. Jesus' reasons for divorce and remarriage is a blanket answer. I can leave my spouse for any reason under the sun, but I can only remarry if my spouse cheated on me or if they are dead. Anything outside of this is adding to it. Let's say if a man was married and divorced while being unsaved. If he re-marries after becoming saved,to someone else, does he go to hell?

In general, there's nothing wrong with what version someone uses. There are exceptions, but the Holy Spirit will steer us away from them. I do hear some that think that the King James Version is the only proper version to use, and they quote Revelation 22: 18-19, in saying that those who add to what's written in this book will go to Hell (I'm paraphrasing). That doesn't mean that we cannot use other versions, as the King James Version is not even close to being the original version of the Word of God.

You're only talking about situations in which a couple is currently married and saved. Where you quoted Mark 10 involved the Pharisees, who considered themselves righteous and saved. There are so many situations that involve people, that you cannot use that as a blanket statement to everyone. What if someone that's not saved, then married, but later becomes saved, but his/her spouse isn't? What about someone who was married and divorced while unsaved, but becomes saved? Do they marry again. What you stated from the scriptures is true, but only applies to those who may have intentions of divorcing their spouses for ungodly reasons. May I ask, what is your individual situation? I re-read your post, and understand that you applied your answer to the poll only. I apologize, but I don't want anyone else to be led to automatically applying your answer to their individual situation. Sry about that.

Very good responses on this topic. I'd like to add about Peter, that there's no doubt about his passion for Jesus. In the first part of John 21, the disciples were on the fishing boat at sea, when Jesus calls them from the shoreline. As soon as Peter recognized that it was Jesus, he dived into the water and began swimming towards Him. The other disciples arrived to Him in later in the boat. Although Jesus Himself knew that Peter's love was greater towards Him than the other disciples (John 21:15), Peter passion for Christ had to be developed into love, Godly love, which includes obedience (John 14:15). Pride may have been a part of Peter's denial of Jesus, but more so these circumstances were used to destroy the self-reliance of Peter, that self-reliance that we all possess. Peter's denial and subsequent rememberance of Jesus' prophetic words brought him to a place of humility, which positions us to really hear what God will is for our lives. Jesus' love was demonstrated in His reinstatement of Peter as the main leader in His early church, thus eliminating any self-condemnation that Peter may have. We must remember that the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet (as far as in baptism). We know that in Acts, the obedience of the disciples, in staying in the Upper Room, enabled the power of God to manifest itself. God is so awesome!

but the sin of adultery is always forgivable with repentance You've must have over read this part of my reply. Yes indeed you're right, repentance involves both asking for forgiveness, and then doing whatever's right (in your example, leaving the adulterous relationship). Planning a sin to me is mocking God, and one will reap what they sow.