JohnD

My question is why in a later verse in the same chapter did he call the saved "All Israel." ???

Take it as a warning to unbelievers. If he did not spare the natural branches who disbelieved... he WILL NOT spare you for unbelief either.

Dr. Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist Church, Plano, TX preaching at Harvest Fellowship Church (Pastor Greg Laurie) Riverside, CA *youtube video removed* We attended Prestonwood in 1998 when we lived in Ft. Worth for a year. Dr. Graham's Church was in Dallas back then and held three services every Sunday morning (a mad house of people coming and going all morning long). When we stayed in town we attended a then very small Calvary Chapel Ft. Worth... one guitar player / singer led the praise and worship (small enough)? *No youtube links please, thanks Isaiah*

The mega churches I mentioned above had home fellowship networking. If you were anonymous in them it is only because you wanted to be. And I do know that people's well-meaning friendliness in Church can be received as smothering and shoving the women to the nursery and the men to the ushering... or (dare I say it) a lot of busy bodying (which the Apostle Paul was pretty harsh on. Small churches have their worth especially in accountability but God's looking over our shoulders 24 / 7 and if we haven't figured out that matters more than our reputation in a small church then...

Mighty brave words. I wonder if all those who signed the document above who lost property and fortune (and some their very lives) for this cause would not be so disgusted with America today as to turn their stomachs. You know what the great tyranny of taxation without representation was over? 1% income tax.

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury: For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies: For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us. He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends. We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated: Column 1 Georgia: Button Gwinnett Lyman Hall George Walton Column 2 North Carolina: William Hooper Joseph Hewes John Penn South Carolina: Edward Rutledge Thomas Heyward, Jr. Thomas Lynch, Jr. Arthur Middleton Column 3 Massachusetts: John Hancock Maryland: Samuel Chase William Paca Thomas Stone Charles Carroll of Carrollton Virginia: George Wythe Richard Henry Lee Thomas Jefferson Benjamin Harrison Thomas Nelson, Jr. Francis Lightfoot Lee Carter Braxton Column 4 Pennsylvania: Robert Morris Benjamin Rush Benjamin Franklin John Morton George Clymer James Smith George Taylor James Wilson George Ross Delaware: Caesar Rodney George Read Thomas McKean Column 5 New York: William Floyd Philip Livingston Francis Lewis Lewis Morris New Jersey: Richard Stockton John Witherspoon Francis Hopkinson John Hart Abraham Clark Column 6 New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett William Whipple Massachusetts: Samuel Adams John Adams Robert Treat Paine Elbridge Gerry Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins William Ellery Connecticut: Roger Sherman Samuel Huntington William Williams Oliver Wolcott New Hampshire: Matthew Thornton

I can sing it from memory. http://www.schoolhou...v/Preamble.html Fraggle Rock right? Oops Schoolhouse rock (I just checked your link... ha ha) "I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill, an' I'm sittin' here on capital hill..." Great project !!!

Went from Chisholm Valley Baptist Church in Round Rock Texas (in 1989 mind you before RR grew to many times its size then) about 120-150 people to Horizon Christian Fellowship in San Diego which at one time was on four campuses. Each Sunday two pastors gave sermons and drove like mad to the next campus to preach there. One was a Church they built in Rancho Santa Fe (swankytown) the rest were in old school campuses they leased from the State full time (the entire campus Monday through Sunday where they had a Christian charter school during the week and adult classes at night), I'm guessing some 10 to 18 thousand members. It was affiliated with Calvary Chapels which as a non denominational Church became one of the biggest denominations in the world. Do a map search of the Calvary Chapels if you are curious. The Vineyard church used to be affiliated with them until the laughing in the spirit thing broke out and Pastor Chuck Smith asked John Wimber to stop claiming to be Calvary Chapels... In other words it was quite the drastic change. But we adapted. I miss those old days when we started fresh in California... I chose to leave the SBC because it dithered on the Freemason issue (because too many higher ups in the convention were high up in Masonry) and the nude model issue at Baylor (which the SBC caved in on). Hmph... such trivial things to quibble about compared to the goings on today... Horizon was a fresh new start. We went to the Rock Church in San Diego (which branched out from Horizon Christian Fellowship) for about ten years before leaving California.

You have to remember there were some staunch elements and not so staunch in observant Jews. Read the historical books of the OT. It was some roller coaster ride of sin trouble and deliverance followed by sin trouble and you get the picture. The very tabernacle of God was allowed to fall into disrepair, the ark changed hands. Priests were neglected and hired out to become private priests for pagans / gentiles. The picture that sometimes gets painted of shomer shabbos and blissful halakha is a myth. The Bible records all this and pulls no punches. The levirite law for example was a passe tipping of the hat to tradition by the time Boaz and Ruth were on the scene. The chap who passed on being the goel (kinsman redemer) just handed off his shoe... no anger no spitting and cursing etc. It was an archaic ritual by then which is why there were so many in despair in those days (it was to raise up a name for a dead brother AND it was to provide for his widow). The various exiles were punishment for the years they did not give the land its sabbatical year rest. Some 490 years of skipping this commandment bout Judah 70 years in Babylon. 490 ÷ 7 = 70. I am sure the opting out mentioned by the OP was figured in this as well.

Deuteronomy 28 (NKJV) 1 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 “And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God: 3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country. 4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out. 7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways. 8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you. 9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 “Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 “And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 “The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 “And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 “So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them. 15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 “The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 “The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 “And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 “The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed. 25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 “Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 “The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 “The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 “And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you. 30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 “Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 “Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 “A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 34 “So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 “The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head. 36 “The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. 37 “And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you. 38 “You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. 39 “You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 “You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. 41 “You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. 42 “Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land. 43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 “He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail. 45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 “And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever. 47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 “therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 “The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 “a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 “And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 “You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 “The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 “so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 “The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 “her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 “then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 “Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 “Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 “You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 “And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess. 64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 “And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 “Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 “In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see. 68 “And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”

This life is but a shadow, a wisp of the afterlife. For surely there is a hereafter, And your hope will not be cut off. Proverbs 23:18 (NKJV)Humanity is born in a fallen state and destined for hell.He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John 3:18 (NKJV)There is a way of salvation provided. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.John 3:16-17 (NKJV)To be saved from eternal hell you must accept that one way of salvation.Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.John 14:6 (NKJV)Put the Bible to the test to determine if its claims above are true.Test all things; hold fast what is good.1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NKJV)The true God is everyone's God whether they admit it or not or even know it or not. Romans 3:29 (NKJV) 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJV) 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV) 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Some believe the above is the second coming of Christ. I would only state that his second coming will not be in the air but on the Earth. On the Mount of Olives in fact. And he will intercede for the Jews who survived to that point in Armageddon who as a last resort cried out to him for salvation from an eminent doom. Hosha Nah! Hosha Nah! Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the LORD! Hosha Nah! Save Now! The above text refers to a resurrection / translation (for those who are still alive at the time). 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 (KJV) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. Second coming? Again... in the air, not on the ground. Revelation 20:1-6 (KJV) 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The first (general) resurrection has not taken place yet. The first resurrection took place 17 Nisan 30 CE when our Lord rose from the grave in his body. Blessed be he! Others who were raised from the dead before then and even at that time and since have all died so theirs was not a resurrection but a resuscitation... because they all died again. The Lord Yeshua is a resurrected human being who will never die again and in his Spirit he is God the Word. Hallelujah! Jude 14-15 (KJV) 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Zechariah 14 (KJV) 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Prior to this will be the resurrection / translation of the saints to meet the Lord in the air. It could be an immediate return of the Lord to the Earth... but scripture indicates it will just short of 3.5 years later... Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV) 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

gokul resin

Getting your mind right and fixed on God (your personal subtitle, if you will) begins by investigating who and what and how God actually is... rather than imposing upon God what you believe should be and the way God should conduct himself. I understand you mean no harm in this action and in fact you are feeling compassion for all... God's love is far greater than yours or mine and his heart breaks in ways we cannot identify with as a result. But God must be true to himself and his righteousness or he would cease to be good. And if God is not good all is lost for everyone. People deserve a second chance... Christianity IS that second chance. Those who reject this for whatever reason must be allowed to do so or it is not a choice and without the ability to choose no one can be saved... John 3:16-18 (KJV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. It is still a choice to believe... a choice to accept... just like it was a choice for humanity to fall into sin in the first place. And for the argument about those who have not heard the Gospel... that's a fault in the mission field / witness of the Christians who live on Earth (i.e. us).

First off, the question indicates the one asking is not clear about what "salvation" is. Salvation is not just a get out of hell pass. It is the way out of a predestined doom in hell forever and ever. John 3:18 (KJV) 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Our salvation is also a redemption. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV) 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God

What is flawed about the generation not passing is that it refers to a time when the Temple is standing so that the Levitical sacrifices are performed. Matthew 24:29-34 (KJV) 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Yeshua / Jesus looked on the fig tree for the pre-seasonal fruit (which is particularly sweet) and there was only leaves. This was prophetic of Israel (the fig tree Hosea 9:10) to see if any understood about the Messiah (Daniel 9:26 / Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 / Psalm 22 / Genesis 22) and the new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) and there were none. Only leaves. Religious practice. Man trying to live up to God's standards or sacrifice for failing to do so. The first religious act of man: Genesis 3:7 (KJV) 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. The count down for a generation's length of time cannot begin until there is a rebuilt Temple and the Levitical sacrifices are performed. Daniel 9:27 (KJV) 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV) 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Stop falling for clueless wild eyed preachers and doomsday salemen and women who make fools out of themselves and sully the teaching and the name of the Almighty by using his Holy Name to peddle their failed prophecies. It is disgusting!!!

Fellowship is the reminder that we are not alone. That the lone ranger path so often taken is not a matter of fact nor is it healthy. Elijah had to be reminded there was a remnant when he fled to Mt. Horeb. We often feel we are the only one left or the only one who cares or the only one who understands. This is first of all arrogance and pride. It is also a means for the devil to get you in a vulnerable place... Divide and conquer... Fellowship is also a means for gathering among kindred spirits who believe what you believe and who love you for who you are... like family or like those who have no family seek this sense of identification with pseudo families (not all of them good like gangs or some that are good like Church or clubs). It all stems from the phrase "It is not good for (the) man to be alone." And that was before the fall off man. Fellowship keeps us grounded when we get full of ourselves. It keeps us above water when we are sinking into the depths of self pity or our own exaggerated sense of guilt or self pity. We're always scared to do what the Bible says (confess your sins to one another) for fear of being discovered to be the worst of the worst... when in nearly all cases we are just normal mutts saved only by the imputed righteousness of the Grace of God. Fellowship is also a great way to learn and to grow and to learn how you can help others or be helped by others. I am reminded of the support network young mothers used to have in communities where family members lived closer together and seldom moved away... some things come naturally... but a lot of things are taught or are helped along by that network rather than the more modern day thinking of the isolation of each household... Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family pointed this out in the 1980's. Fellowship is very much like that support network. Also fellowship is a means to pray together. Prayer is one of our most effective tools and or weapons in this spiritual warfare... It is also the most under rated and neglected privilege we have... Think about it... When was the last time you prayed? Really prayed? Not the rote prayers we often lapse into at scheduled intervals... which are better than none... When was the lat time you went to a prayer meeting that was really a prayer meeting and not a sermon or Church business meeting?

There could be many parallels like mountains bowing down and the sea roaring... or if these be silent the very rocks will cry out... IMHO it is a woe over the things that must needs be... the suffering, the loss of life, etc.

Strong's Hebrew #8415 ...hillb Mizar. 7Deep calleth unto deep at ... 8415 t^ehowm { teh-home'} or t^ehom { teh-home'} from 1949; TWOT - 2495a; n f/m AV - deep 20, depth 15, deep places 1; 36 GK - 9333 { תְּהֹום } 1) deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea 1a) deep (of subterranean waters) 1b) deep, sea, abysses (of sea) 1c) primeval ocean, deep 1d) deep, depth (of river) 1e) abyss, Sheol Strong's Hebrew #7121 ...b Mizar. 7Deep calleth unto deep at the ... 7121 qara' { kaw-raw'} a primitive root [rather identical with 7122 through the idea of accosting a person met]; TWOT - 2063; v AV - call 528, cried 98, read 38, proclaim 36, named 7, guests 4, invited 3, gave 3, renowned 3, bidden 2, preach 2, misc 11; 735 GK - 7924 { קָרָא } 1) to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to call, cry, utter a loud sound 1a2) to call unto, cry (for help), call (with name of God) 1a3) to proclaim 1a4) to read aloud, read (to oneself), read 1a5) to summon, invite, call for, call and commission, appoint, call and endow 1a6) to call, name, give name to, call by 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to call oneself 1b2) to be called, be proclaimed, be read aloud, be summoned, be named 1c) (Pual) to be called, be named, be called out, be chosen Deep calleth unto deep abyss acosts abyss...

Sis, I would ask if you have read any of Nee's writings? If not, let me recommend two books, "The Normal Christian Life" and "Sit, Walk, Stand". I guess you could then see for yourself. I've read the first one, the Normal Christian Life, but I gave up reading his writings when I read about how his doctrine changed later in his ministry. I'm not saying his writing is valueless, but it certainly will require discernment to pick out the good stuff and leave the rest. IMO anyway. Did you like his stuff? Did you see the mysticism coming out? GBU Well said, Sister! And bravo to you for having the courage to stand up to defend the faith. Too few are willing to do so. The fiery darts of the evil one and the people he deceives from the other side is bad enough, but too often the darts come from our own people... and that's hard to take sometimes. God job!

If any man says anything and you accept what he says without checking him out, you are in error. The Bible says: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV) 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 John 4:1 (NIV) 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Test even that which you believe to be the Holy Spirit because it might not be him. We humans are gullible. We are short sighted. We can't adequately distinguish good from evil. Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Read the Bible. Study the Bible. Believe the Bible. Take God's word for it. Doubt man's every word. And thereby learn the truth.

Camping's website is down. Maybe he thought the world of his website and that's what he was predicting the end of???

Who are we to question God? What is the purpose of any sacrifice? Did He consult man about our opinion of the cross? How is this questioning God, this is a honest question. Frankly its a good one. I don't know the answer, but I wont spit on the question. Sometimes its best to say I dont know. I've heard it explained once and I'll probably butcher it trying to repeat the explanation for the 1000 year reign. Anyway, it was something to the accord of God is giving us so many years to live under the law with a perfect ruler to show us that we would still rebel against him. Huh.