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There are web pages teaching people that they don't have to forgive an offender, and it is all based on one lone standing verse. And this is wrong. While there is numerous of other verses teaching us to forgive, even if the offender has not said "I'm sorry". Including passages in the OT. No one is saying you have to remain a doormat, NOT at all !! forgiving someone doesn’t mean that you are approving or excusing or even forgetting what the person said or did. It also does NOT mean that you have to continue to be a doormat either. The saying and teaching .....“only if they repent”, is a way to justify vindictiveness, a bitter-sweet gloating retribution; and is a false sense of entitlement and power over the person and/or the offending situation. While your waiting for the offender to say “I'm sorry”. The pain remains, and bitterness, anger and resentment increases and keeps building and building inside of you. Robbing you of peace, joy and healing from the situation. Plus hinder your walk with the Lord. Forgiveness is for YOUR benefit. Doesn't mean the offender is off of God's hook. But it does mean that the pain from the event or person no longer has a hold over you. And healing can begin. Just mouthing the words to the offender “I forgive you” is shallow indeed if you in your heart and mind are still trying to cause the offender to hurt like you do. No amount of vindictiveness or withholding of forgiveness is going to hurt the offender, like it will hurt you. You will continue to hurt more and more and more, not less. Sometimes healing is slow, but it will happen a lot easier and be less painful, if you will forgive the offender. Even secular psychologists and counselors, tell their clients all that I have just said.

It is important to point out the difference between false doctrine and denominational disagreements. Different congregational groups see secondary issues in Scripture differently. These differences are not always due to false doctrine on anyone’s part. Church policies, governmental decisions, style of worship, etc., are all open for discussion, since they are not directly addressed in Scripture. Even those issues that are addressed in Scripture are often debated by equally sincere disciples of Christ. Differences in interpretation or practice do not necessarily qualify as false doctrine, nor should they divide the Body of Christ

After reading Jayne's and Willa's posts I went back through the thread and saw the below statement. "If someone who has offended/hurt us does notrepent, we do not have to forgive them. " Repentance in the bible is spoken of in the sense of seeing your sin in the way God does and agree with Him about it and turn from all known sin and turn to God. He is our creator, and Sovereign over all. He is not obligated to bend to our wishes. God commanded us to turn from sinful lives and turn to him. He also commanded us to believe upon His Son. When we do not, we are disobeying His commands. Our sins against each other are not the same as our sins against an all holy God. We are not sinless or perfect.

Some of the respondents touched on something I can agree with; and that is...... that no one is perfect. Everyone has stumbled in one way or another after becoming a Christian. No one is immune to temptation. All experience it. As believer's in Christ, we must be of one mind on the essentials of the faith, but beyond that there is latitude, and this diversity allows us to be individuals in Christ. Careful thought needs to be engaged before the label of heresy or false teacher is applied to any particular opinion or person. There is the essential core beliefs shared by mainstream Christianity. These essential beliefs, are the heart of the gospel. Any deviation or denial of one or more of these, and the individual or denomination is preaching a different gospel than the ones the Apostles preached in the bible. Jesus is the Son of God and is equal with God Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for our sins Jesus rose from the dead We are saved by the grace of God; that is, we cannot add to or take away from Christ’s finished work on the cross as full payment for our sin God's written word is infallible Jesus is fully God, and fully man at the same time There must be a spiritual transformation There is only one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.

Regarding "only if they repent" There are multiple verses that outweigh the one that mentions "Only if they repent". Below is only a couple that shows what it means to be Christlike. Forgiveness helps us to be more like Christ, Forgiveness brings us closer to God. Forgiveness releases us from anger, pain, bitterness and resentment. These things drag us down. They hinder our walk with the Lord. Forgiving others does NOT mean that the bad behavior is condoned. It is not forgetting what has happened. But it does mean that we are to do as multiple scriptures teach. Forgive one another. Remembering that we too fall short at times. Forgiveness is for the offended individuals benefit. Forgiving someone even if they haven’t apologized is about your freedom, your spiritual life, trusting God, and your responsibility to move forward. People find it hard to forgive, because as human's we don't want to see the offender get off the hook. We would rather the offender feel the pain and hurt more than we do. And we want to see them punished, not forgiven. Revenge, is NEVER satisfied. It never releases us from pain and hurt. This is why forgiving others even if they do not say "I'm sorry" is important. Scriptures indeed teach us to let others off our hook as the Lord commands us to. We often forget that we ourselves have offended others at times too and appreciate being forgiven, but then when we ourselves are offended, we don't want to do extend the offender the same grace shown to us by someone else. In Matthew 18, Jesus tells the story of a king who showed grace to a servant. The servant instead of paying it forward, dishes out revenge. The story itself, teaches us that we are to emulate Christ. He has shown us and bestowed undeserved and unmerited grace upon us, .... Should we NOT also do the same towards each other? 1 Peter 2:23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

There is a difference between merely believing God exists and receiving Jesus into our hearts. We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. All who believe in Jesus Christ instantaneously receive the Holy Spirit. The bible says that a person can not be a believer in Jesus Christ without the Holy Spirit in their life. John 6 : 28, 29 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 1 Corinthians 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? There is no command in Scripture to seek for the Holy Spirit, or to pray so he can be received. If the Holy Spirit were given apart from salvation, we would expect the bible to give the requirements of his reception. Cornelius and his entire household was not at Pentecost, but upon hearing the gospel preached in his home, the Holy Spirit was given to him and all who were present in his home.

Someone recently said something along this line.... but we can't judge, because they may be new Christians... that is true. However, it is easier to help a new Christian see error, than someone who sees themselves as having a special inside track with God that they think no one else has or that they are more holy than others, and everyone else should listen to that person only. True that we can't judge the heart, but we most certainly judge every thing we hear, read and see against the word of God to see if what is being said lines up with the bible and lines up with the gospel message. We are to do this, no matter who is speaking. Paul commended the Bereans, not because they were mature believers, but because they didn't just take his word without question, concerning what they were hearing him say. They compared what Paul said to what scripture said as a whole. God gave us three things, the Holy Spirit to guide us into the direction of all truth, his written word (bible) and common sense. Satan quoted scripture to Jesus perfectly when it suited his evil purposes. In Matthew 4, Satan after taking Jesus up to the highest point of the temple, said to Jesus. Matthew 4:6 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ Satan was quoting from Psalm 91 Psalm 91:11, 12 For He will command His angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. 12 They will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. Jesus didn't say... oh yeah, your right scripture does say that so it must be ok. Jesus' reply to that was, Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test'. Deuteronomy 6 : 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah Jesus did not need to do it to prove who he was, or that the father was with him in this way. But if he had, it would have been a glaring act of unbelief instead. Common sense tells us that if you jump from a high place, your gonna die from the sudden and painful stop at the bottom. Deliberately putting yourself in such a position of harm is an evil test of getting God to move on your behalf, in others words your manipulating the situation. And it is an unacceptable way of testing God. We can see from the conversation in Matthew 4, that Satan spoke truth. There was just enough truth mixed in with the lie, to hide the fact that Satan was being deceptive the whole time. False teachings are NOT born because the speaker is a new Christian or because they misunderstand scripture, but because they believe lies from demons. Satan and his demon's are not interested in man being redeemed, and they certainly will not lead people to Jesus, or lead people to worship Jesus, but away from him. All false teachings lead us away from Jesus and the gospel message and point our focus elsewhere. In summary, we most certainly should judge and point out false teaching and heresy. The bible teaches us to not only avoid them, but to also expose them.

Check and see if there is a air base near you. Within the United States, it is illegal to break the sound barrier. ... When you pass Mach 1, the plane travels faster than the waves itself and that move across the so-called sound barrier produces a large sound, which is the sonic boom. We have an air base in my area. When I was a kid, sonic booms were common place till enough people complained about them and it became illegal for planes to travel faster than the speed of sound. Just because it is illegal, doesn't mean it won't happen once in a while. Explanation Sonic boom is an impulsive noise similar to thunder. It is caused by an object moving faster than sound -- about 750 miles per hour at sea level. An aircraft traveling through the atmosphere continuously produces air-pressure waves similar to the water waves caused by a ship's bow. When the aircraft exceeds the speed of sound, these pressure waves combine and form shock waves which travel forward from the generation or "release" point. As an aircraft flies at supersonic speeds it is continually generating shock waves, dropping sonic boom along its flight path, similar to someone dropping objects from a moving vehicle. From the perspective of the aircraft, the boom appears to be swept backwards as it travels away from the aircraft. If the plane makes a sharp turn or pulls up, the boom will hit the ground in front of the aircraft. The sound heard on the ground as a "sonic boom" is the sudden onset and release of pressure after the buildup by the shock wave or "peak overpressure." The change in pressure caused by sonic boom is only a few pounds per square foot -- about the same pressure change we experience on an elevator as it descends two or three floors -- in a much shorter time period. It is the magnitude of this peak overpressure that describes a sonic boom.

I agree with Alive when he said this could be better understood by reading Roman's 5. What Paul is pointing to is that, the old lower sinful nature still resides in our flesh, so at times we stumble. And because of our faith and trust in Jesus to wash away the stains of sin and quilt, there is no condemnation awaiting for those in Christ. The thing to understand too, is that when we believed the gospel message, God changed our hearts and attitudes and minds towards sin. We no longer love the old man, that is the sin loving nature that loved to sin. When we stumble, we are appalled by it, because our new nature loves God. I am NOT saying its ok to sin, NOT at all. When we stumble, we are assured that we can go right to God about it and ask him to cleans us from the sin, and he will, just as he did the first hour we believed.

Even though there is latitude, diversity, differences of thought, belief and opinions of those seeking to honor God according to their consciences and their understanding of God's Word. There are core belief's that are agreed upon by mainstream Christianity. An individual is in serious error when he or she either removes, denies, or changes one or more of the essential core doctrines. False teachings and false doctrines always take the emphasis and focus off of Jesus, his life, death and resurrection and place it somewhere else. Our Christology must line up with scripture as a whole. And when it does NOT, there is a problem. A person's validity comes from the doctrine of Christ. He or she will affirm that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, and they will place emphasis on Jesus, and direct others to Him. A person that affirms Christ as the bible teaches, strives after these things; Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control

There is nothing wrong with observing special days but, if anyone is counting on the Old Testament laws written on stone for salvation, then Christ is of no use to them. Yes Christ died for us you say? But then demand that everyone go back to following the law written on stone that never could save us, for if they could and worked, then God would have used them to save us and make us righteous. Those who put themselves back under the law put themselves right back under a curse. In fact scripture says if you do so, you are “severed from Christ”, Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed is anyone who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.” The 10 commandments were not given to Christians, it is there for those who do not believe in or trust in Jesus. And to realize their inability do so. To put it in another way, the law must be there otherwise nobody will realize they need grace! Its purpose is to lead people to the end of themselves, it is there to push people, until they give up on the law and choose to rely on God’s gift of grace! The law will never save anyone, nor will it make them a better person, whether they are a believer or unbeliever. It is simply there to show us how lost we are without grace. Jesus paid our debt in full. He fulfilled the law. Scripture says that the law was nailed to the cross with Him! We wouldn't need to use the law as a measuring stick to measure what is right and what is wrong if we would just follow God’s voice, and trust Him with our lives, we would see the most marvelous changes in our lives. The only thing a believer needs, to live a holy life, is to remain conscious of the fact that God has fully accepted him or her as his son or daughter, making him or her a new creation and one in him, filled with the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2,3 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

thank you

When someone shared the gospel message with me, the Holy Spirit confirmed the gospel message in my heart, The bible certainly teaches who Jesus is, for as we read, we can see his attributes and character. Who is Jesus to me? My redeemer. He is God in the flesh, fully God and fully man at the same time. Born of a woman, born as a Jew, died on the cross and rose to life again. Jesus is the exact representation of God's glory. Salvation can be found in no one else. The knowledge of God is hardwired into our consciences, all of creation points to him; whether we want to admit that or not. We are aware of him instinctively. As we read scripture, we come to know him more and more. But we also come to know him through prayer, and trusting him with our lives. I don't need to doubt who Jesus is, for I can see all the marvelous changes in my life.

@Josheb I'm NOT asking if those sins are ok. It seems you have skipped the first two paragraphs of my post and homed in on the last paragraph. The opster and I have been on a “beating a dead horse” merry-go-round so to speak where law keeping is concerned for quite a while. Namely about observing the 10 commandments and the sabbath or a person is sinning and unsaved. The paragraph you quoted and the list of sins in my post was intended to make a point, that it is not possible to obey the law perfectly without one slip. Legalists keep harping that we must adhere to sabbath keeping for salvation. I did not list all ten commandments in that paragraph. And yes, I know that the 10 is a summary of all the others. I intended for the paragraph and the two columns of sins listed, to show that while an individual may not lie or steal, or commit adultery, they commit other sins that in reality break the commandments that they, themselves say we must obey to a) appease God and b) receive salvation. This is hypocrisy at its core. A person may follow the sabbath law meticulously and feel all is well between them and God and yet, be very complacent about other sins that lurk in the heart. If any individual is counting on the Old Testament observances (sabbath keeping) to curry God's favor and receive righteousness, then, Jesus is of no use to that individual, for his/her faith is NOT in Jesus but in the law of Moses. And yes I agree with Alive that the Book of Romans explains all this very well. Galatians 3:2-3 (CJB) I want to know from you just this one thing: did you receive the Spirit by legalistic observance of Torah commands or by trusting in what you heard and being faithful to it? Are you that stupid? Having begun with the Spirit’s power, do you think you can reach the goal under your own power? Galatians 3:5 (CJB) What about God, who supplies you with the Spirit and works miracles among you — does he do it because of your legalistic observance of Torah commands or because you trust in what you heard and are faithful to it? Galatians 3:10-12 (CJB) For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/274074-dont-sever-yourself-from-christ/

I did try that, still had to go back and edit the post. I use a writing program to precompose my posts, in case they get lost in cyberland, in that way I don't have to retype my post.

Years ago, I used to ask my hub how he did some things and he would say..... “very carefully”. Arrrrgh, that wasn't helpful !! Getting the columns was not easy. I had to go back and forth editing my post a lot. A bit of a pain and time consuming to do.

The greatest thing in our lives is knowing Jesus personally. Our responsibility is to exercise faith and trust in Christ, for we are saved by God's grace and not by our own merits. We remain conscious of the fact that God has fully accepted each of us, as his son or daughter, making us a new creation and one in him, filled with the Holy Spirit. If we walk in the spirit, trusting him with our lives we are abiding in Jesus, and he in us; and thus, we bear much fruit. Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. These are the things we should be striving for. Against such there is no law. And those who are in Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

@Alive Yes I agree with you about what the book of Romans had to say. But it doesn't seem to find a home in those who say that if one doesn't worship on the sabbath only. They are not keeping the 10 commandments as a whole. They insist that in order to appease God, keeping the sabbath is necessary.

@Alive This thread is in response to the following statement by me which is spoken of in Galatians 3.

No one this side of heaven is perfect. Which is why Jesus came, so he could be our perfection. The old lower sinful nature still resides in our flesh, so at times we stumble. No human on this earth is able to live a perfect sinless life.

These discussions always come back full circle about the sabbath t I never said the law was abolished in my thread. We would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. What was intended to bring life actually brought death. Through the law we become conscious of our sin. Sin brings condemnation and death. The Old Testament said that anyone who failed to uphold the law, was cursed. Not just part of it, but all of it. (Deuteronomy 27:26) God's justice demands death in payment for sin. Any sin, not just certain sins. “The wages of sin is death” The law is good, but we end up under a curse because man can not keep the law perfectly. No one after becoming a Christian can ever say he or she has never sinned after becoming a Christian. People in general speaking say.... but the bible says.... “if you love me, you will keep my commandments” but we are not obeying that command when we do any of the following listed below. Does anyone really think that as long as they don't lie, don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't commit murder and keep the sabbath, that God will look the other way when they sin in other ways? That is the worst sort of lie ever. And certainly hypocrisy. Remaining angry for an extended time Arrogance Verbally or emotionally abusing others Bitterness Desiring praise from others Hypocrisy Causing divisions among others Quarreling Not recognizing your own faults Boasting Desiring something forbidden Complaining Causing strife among others Conceit Expressing unkind thoughts of others Greed Betraying the trust of others Judging Refusing to forgive others Backbiting Being ungrateful Slandering others Using foul language Reviling others Ridiculing another person Foolish talk Breaking an agreement Using foul language provoking someone else to anger Name calling Secretly hating others in your heart Lovers of self Being fond of gratification Being deceitful Pride Craftiness

But, but... we don't know anything about the new year

C'mon, its rather silly to think that only one couple was able to reproduce while everyone else just stared at each other for 800 to 900 years. Scripture is primarily speaking and dealing with the heart of man and our relationship with God. Scripture tells us what God wants us to know. It seems people in general speaking (collective people, no one here specifically) are not satisfied with what is already shown us. God is NOT keeping anything from us. If we were shown more details, it would take away the lesson and focus of what God intended for us to know and learn. I seems to me, people in general are always trying to make the bible fit into the mold of whatever philosophy the world holds or "aliens were here" or some other nonsense.