Dave Watchman

I did see these videos. They worked hard on them. They did a good job. I agree in theory with the strategy behind them, but I still think it's happening sooner. I agree 2030 is exactly 2000 years since the Cross. I can be certain Jesus died in 30AD, it's easy to count the Passover that year. 30AD is the only year that fits the Biblical chronology. I saw you guys were talking about a 7 year tribulation. I don't think we have a 7 year tribulation, but I still read there being a final 7 year span, a final heptad count triggered in various years. Tribulation may be a misleading word for the final heptad. It's for this reason, this count of sevens, which makes me think it's not going all the way to 2030. So this is the thing. It's two different things, the timing of the prophetic time period, and what is the actual event of the prophecy that goes with the time period? If I'm right about the timing, shouldn't we be seeing a bunch of things happening already? Like the Two Witnesses, Mark of the Beast, people getting beheaded, rebuilt temple, Antichrist coming back to life from a mortal head wound and all the earthquakes, and asteroids, and a third of the earth burnt up, and everything else from the Hal Lindsey style end time model? If all that stuff is still coming, we must have more time remaining. Right? There's another guy using my method, which is actually Isaac Newton's method, but he thinks it's 2 years latter than me. He's using a different starting point, based on another measurement. But he's doing the same thing I did already a few years ago. Which is to question what else could those events be in the above paragraph, if they have turned out not to be what we thought they should be? If the events in the above paragraph were exactly literal, like in the Late Great Planet Earth, it would violate Jesus being able to come back as a thief in the night. We wouldn't need to watch so hard like Jesus was saying, we could just sit back and see it on CNN. Then everyone would know we are already in one of the days of the Son of Man. It's just that I think it's happening anytime now. So I don't want to jinx it. Or to upset the other guys on the forum by saying something different is about to happen, than what they think. I think it's going to go along fairly normal like it is right now. Nothin much seems to be going on. Some thought the Israel war might be Gog Magog. I think we might be going through the bottom part of Luke 17 and nobody is going to know until the two women are working at the mill and one gets taken and one gets left. People are going to say what's going on, what is happening? Then they'll say: "do you know what this is?, it's the Second Coming of Christ! And all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

I'm reading that there will be a lot of death when Jesus returns. The winepress is trodden, blood will flow up to the horses bridal. The time comes for God to destroy, the destroyers of the earth. That doesn't sound good. The earth has become defiled, the land, the earth, will vomit out it's inhabitants. The people of other belief systems seem covered by Paul in Romans 2. They become a law unto themselves. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. I was thinking about the people of other belief systems yesterday. My truck had an emergency breakdown. Guys with turbans fixed me up. A 5 hour job. They were thoughtful, careful, and seemed like very good people. They did a big job for me. Jesus said He has Sheep in many folds, I hope they are in the Sheep pen. If they are, Jesus has them. Jesus will only rule (with) the saints for a thousand literal years. Just like it says in Revelation 20. All of the prophetic time periods in Daniel and Revelation are literal time. There can be a day for a year translation, like in Daniel 9, but there is no such thing as symbolic time. Jesus said that He was going to go and prepare a place for us. Then He would come back and get us to take us to be where He is. His Father's House has many rooms. If this were not true, would He have told us? It's just that I also think it's happening anytime now. So I don't want to jinx it. Or to upset the other guys on the thread by saying something different is about to happen, than what they think. Peaceful Sabbath.

Satan, the Dragon. He gave his power, his throne, and his great authority to the composite beast. Now he becomes its 8th king, one of the seven. The "Harlot" is just Lucifer's theocratic church/state system which rides the beast. Satan has infiltrated, or undermined, the 7 religions, and 10 most powerful nations on earth, which have devolved into the Babylon of Revelation. This thread looks good. I've seen other discussions where talk of the 7 headed, 10 horned composite beast of Babylon, and the Harlot and the Great City have caused trouble. The only reason I would add a post to it is because I think it's happening now, and has just been happening. I don't think it's something that will develop and build into another monster beast seven years from now. I'm also trying not to write my usual wall of confusing text, that even looks confusing to me when I read it again. Lol. So I'll just say who I think the Babylon players are, the 7 heads and the 10 kings, because many of them have been around for a long time. The Babylon of Revelation is not a specific place on earth. Babylon boils down, in its simplest form, to the church/state power that is given authority over the majority of the population of the earth. The first example of it was with Nebuchadnezzar ordering Daniel and the people in Ancient Babylon to bow down and worship the image. It's the government telling people what to do in the things that are supposed to be in God's Domain. Like when our modern nations legalize the various transgressive laws. The nation's politicians are influenced by their constituents, the voting population. The "Great City" is not a specific city on earth where our Lord was crucified. Revelation is a tale of two cities. New Jerusalem, referred to as the “holy city,” symbolizes God’s People and their place of refuge. Babylon is a city that is portrayed as a corrupt and oppressive entity, representing the world’s opposition to God and His People. Babylon is described as a "Great City" because it is populated by evil citi-zens who exercise control over their rulers. Majority rules. The "Great City" was the jeering crowd yelling Crucify Him. Three times Pilate wanted to let Jesus go, but they kept shouting, “Crucify, crucify him!” Pilate was not in control, if he went against that blood thirsty crowd, they likely would have had him crucified too. The "Great City" is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt as it points us to the sexually immoral, and the hard hearted people. Which I'm sad to say are still probably out voting us even now. Our end time composite beast has risen from the great city, the synagogue of Satan, the sea of many nations and peoples and tongues. Seven Heads, Seven Mountains and Seven Kings The 7 heads are the religious part of the church/state composite beast. Everyone living on earth can trace a connection to this thing. Each of the 7 have a blasphemous name written on their heads. That should point us in a religious direction. Heads and mountains and kings that have fallen. Loosen up a little and google some definitions. "Fallen" does not always mean dead, or out of business or out of commission. Think about that phrase "fallen woman", she's not dead, just fallen from grace. And think about how the mountains are more than symbolic for places of worship or where the deities are thought to dwell. Jesus made the trip up the mount of transfiguration. Mount Zion, God's Holy hill, mount Moriah, the high places of the OT where they erected the Asherah poles. And how even the Pagans in South America would make the pilgrimage up the mountain to worship their gods. "As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my Holy Hill. And they are 7 kings. "King" doesn't always mean the ruler of a kingdom, it can also be used to refer to something preeminent in its class. In the USA, Budweiser is the "king" of beers, Elvis is the "king" of rock and roll. In Europe, soccer is the "king" of sports. And in the middle east, Islam is the "king" of religion. Cotton may no longer be "king", but remains the chief cash crop. "This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. When John spoke with the angel in AD95 these following five religious belief systems had already fallen, been proven false, by Jesus' birth, death and resurrection: 1) Atheism. This is defined as the belief that there is no God or gods. It might not sound like a religion, but it's a system of belief that remains today as I can see them still arguing on different forums. This belief system was proven false the day Jesus was born. King David wrote, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’ 2) Paganism. A type of polytheism. A belief in a number of subordinate gods. This religious system is huge and diverse, Because mankind is inherently rebellious and religious, this religious system creates gods to address its fears, fantasies, and superstitions. The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus proves this religious system is false. 3) Eastern Mysticism. Including Buddhism and Hinduism. The idea that man can transcend himself and reincarnate into a god. Jesus proved this religious system false in the same way He rebuked the Jews for putting their traditions above the Word of God saying, “Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” 4) Judaism. A religious system that denies that Jesus is God. Judaism believes that salvation comes through obedience to the Law. Jesus proved this religious system false when He said, “I tell you the truth, he who believes in me has everlasting life.” 5) Islam. Also Mohammedanism. An Abrahamic religious system that originated from Ishmael's 12 sons. It rejects the divinity of Jesus. Islam does not accept the premise that mankind needs a sinless Savior. Although Islam today is often associated with the sixth century A.D. influence of Mohammed, the title, Islam, as used here, includes the ancient Arabic faith from which Mohammedanism grew. Even though many Christians believe Mohammed was the founder of Islam, it must be emphasized that Mohammed did not invent the Islamic faith. The early Christian Church was just forming when John spoke with the angel in AD95 and was, at that time, the one that is: 6) Catholicism. The new Holy Mountain that appeared in John’s day was Christianity. What was called Christianity during the first few centuries is called Catholicism today. The Greek word katholikos means “universal” or “everywhere.” In other words, as Rome’s version of Christianity spread throughout Europe, the church became known as the Catholic (the universal Christian) Church. The traditions and beliefs of Catholic Churches became bigger than it's religion. Their theology, liturgy, ethics and spirituality. The Holy See. See Popery. The Catholic Church is the main and the earliest form of Christianity. The one that had not yet come in AD95 got started in around 1517. I would hesitate to speculate at this time on its current condition. 7) Protestantism. The second largest form of Christianity. Protestantism is popularly considered to have begun in Germany in 1517 when Martin Luther published his Ninety-five Theses as a reaction against abuses in the sale of indulgences by the Roman Catholic Church. After the powers of the papacy were broken towards the end of the Middle Ages, the Protestant Reformation blossomed for a few years in Europe and then the United States, and then it fragmented into many pieces. God raised up the United States of America to help the Woman in Revelation 12, but Protestantism seems to have strayed away from God and fallen into an apostasy now. The Ten Kings. So if we can figure out that the timing demands that the ten kings have just been happening now, we might know that we are already in the "hour" of their power. Like the half an hour of silence from Revelation 8, or about the space of that time, I doubt the ten king's royal authority is a literal 60 minutes. That "hour" word from Revelation is translated from the Greek "hora", and can mean just a specific, or a designated space of time, or even a season. It could be, based on context, the 42 months from Revelation 13, the whole heptad of the 70th week, or even 3.5 years, half a heptad, where a week in Daniel 9 is already cut in half for us. In my view, the ten kings have already been with us for a long long time, since the middle ages. The composite beast really just points to the church/state power that is given authority over the majority of the population. The first edition of this thing was at the start of the middle ages in Daniel 7. That was when the "three were plucked up by the roots". Back then the "crowns" were on the "heads", or the authority was given to the religious portion of the church/state entity. The Pope was in charge back then. The King of England had to ask the Pope if he could get a divorce from his wife. King Henry VIII of England sought an annulment from his wife, Catherine of Aragon, rather than a divorce. He needed the Pope’s approval because the Catholic Church did not permit divorce. I think he beheaded his next wife, until death did they part. That's why he made the "church" of England. Lol. Fast forward to our end time composite beast which John saw rise out of the sea of many peoples and nations and tongues. This time the crowns are moved over to the horns, the kings, the governments of the world, which have the authority in the church/state beast. I think these end time kings of the earth have already committed sexual immorality with the end time "harlot", which is really just Lucifer's theocratic system, the 8th king, that the world's religious systems and governments have degenerated into. In my view none of these ten end time kings will be plucked up by the roots. All ten of them have just made war with the Lamb, and the Lamb is just now about to conquer all ten of them. Which is the same thing as Daniel's Rock not cut out by human hand smashing the ten toes to smithereens. In my view we are in the days of these 10 toes/10 kings. Right on the verge of it. I'm also just reading a Pastors note where he says "10" is a Biblical number of completion. I tend to shy away from these types of numerological ideas, but this one looks good. Jack writes a good note. The 10 Commandments. God gave us the 10 Commandments that were a reflection of His expectations of mankind and as a way to represent His holiness. The 10 Toes and Horns of Daniel and Revelation As 10 represented God’s governmental rule, so does the number 10 represent the rule of mankind but also the Evil One behind man’s government as we see in the 10 toes of Daniel 2 and in Revelation chapter’s 13 and 17 of the beast with the 10 horns. The 10 of Genesis The phrase “God said” appears 10 times in the creation week of Genesis 1. The 10 Plagues When God punished Egypt for not letting Israel God, there were 10 plagues which are reflective of the completeness of God’s judgment. The Passover Lamb The Passover lamb was to be sacrificed on the 10th day of the first month (Ex 12:3) which was symbolic of the true Passover Lamb, Jesus Christ which John the Baptist noticed when He saw Christ and said “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29b). Since Jesus was the atonement provided for sinners, the Day of Atonement was on the 10th day of the 7th month. Ten Generations There were exactly 10 generations that lived up to the flood of Noah’s day when the flood of God’s judgment on sinful mankind overwhelmed all those who refused to repent. Noah was the 10th patriarch and after this generation, The Tithe The tithe which is 10% of what Israel gained was holy unto the Lord. Jesus loved to use the number 10 in many of His sayings, particularly His parable: There were 10 virgins (Matt 25:1-13). There were 10 lepers (Luke 17:11-19). There were 10 talents (Matt 25:14-30). There were 10 minas (Luke 19:12-27). There were exactly 10 “I AM’s” spoken by Jesus in the Gospel of John. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2014/10/04/what-does-the-number-ten-10-mean-or-represent-in-the-bible/ If it is correct that the composite beast is a church/state entity, the list of ten kings, ten horns, ten toes, has to include at least one nation representing each of the three Abrahamic Religious faiths. And if you think Israel doesn't belong on the list, just do a YouTube search for the "pride" events in Tel Aviv. Thank goodness I can't post the video snippet here. They are on the wrong end of the list for the biggest one. Do a google for a list of the ten most powerful countries in the world. We're probably looking at them right here now. Policymakers, tracked religiously, influence on the world stage. And with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk. Power The world’s most powerful countries are the ones that consistently dominate news headlines, preoccupy policymakers and shape global economic patterns. Their foreign policies and military budgets are tracked religiously. When they make a pledge, at least some in the international community trust – or fear – they will keep it. These countries project their influence on the world stage. United States #1 in Power The United States of America is a North American nation that is the world’s most dominant economic and military power. Likewise, its cultural imprint spans the world, led in large part by its popular culture expressed in music, movies and television. China #2 in Power Home to one of the world’s oldest civilizations, China has been ruled by the Communist Party since 1949, when the nation was established as the People’s Republic of China. The country is the world’s most populous and is considered the second-largest by land mass. Russia #3 in Power The scale of Russia is difficult to imagine. It is the world’s largest country by land mass – nearly twice as big as Canada, the world’s second-largest nation – and covers all of northern Asia and much of Eastern Europe. It shares land borders with more than a dozen countries, and shares sea borders with Japan and the United States. United Kingdom #4 in Power The United Kingdom is a highly developed nation that exerts considerable international economic, political, scientific and cultural influence. Located off the northwest corner of Europe, the country includes the island of Great Britain – which contains England, Scotland and Wales – and the northern portion of the island of Ireland. The country’s role on the global stage faces new questions as the nation withdrew from the European Union. , as well as the policies supporting the eurozone. Germany #5 in Power Germany, the most populous nation in the European Union, possesses one of the largest economies in the world and has seen its role in the international community grow steadily since reunification. The Central European country borders nine nations, and its landscape varies, from the northern plains that reach to the North and Baltic seas to the Bavarian Alps in the south. South Korea #6 in Power South Korea, officially the Republic of Korea, is a nation in eastern Asia that occupies the southern portion of the Korean Peninsula and has a long history of conflict. Liberated from Japan in 1945 at the end of World War II, South Korea was invaded by communist forces in North Korea several years later. Aid from the United Nations helped end the three-year war and support the south on its path to democracy. A critical divide between the two nations along the center of the peninsula remains. France #7 in Power It is difficult to overstate the influence France has on the world, both in the past and today. Located in Western Europe, France is one of the world’s oldest countries, and its reach extends around the globe through science, politics, economics and perhaps above all, culture. Starting in the Middle Ages, France evolved through kingdom, empire and finally, into a republic. It was one of the first nations to champion the rights of the individual. Japan #8 in Power Japan, one of the world’s most literate and technically advanced nations, is an East Asian country made up of four main islands. While most of Japan is covered by mountains and heavily wooded areas, the country’s roughly 126 million people lead a distinctly urban lifestyle. Long culturally influenced by its neighbors, today the country blends its ancient traditions with aspects of Western life. Saudi Arabia #9 in Power Saudi Arabia is the giant of the Middle East, with both the vast majority of land and wealth of the Arabian Peninsula falling within its borders. Millions of devout Muslims from around the world participate in a pilgrimage to Mecca each year, believed to be the birthplace of the Muslim prophet Mohammed and the cradle of Islam. A fierce religious identity dominates the Sunni-majority nation, with principles of the Koran, conservative Sunni teachings known as Wahhabism and strict Islamic Shariah law present in all aspects of life. Israel #10 in Power Israel, the only Jewish nation in the world, is a small country on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea. For its relatively small size, the country has played a large role in global affairs. The country has a strong economy, landmarks of significance to several religions and strained relationships with many of its Arab neighbors. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/power Until the words of God are fulfilled.

I don't think Jerusalem is big enough to be the Harlot. It says it calls her the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, many waters being the many nations and peoples and tongues. Like the sea that the composite beast has risen from. The harlot rides the beast, she controls it, directs it. Jerusalem is too small for that. I can agree with this. All of the world's governments and religions have now morphed into Lucifer's theocratic church/state. It's just that a single city, Jerusalem, Rome or New York, seems too small to be in control of a global composite beast. I would agree here too. The Revelation 12 woman is God's People. The Bride of Christ is a good congregation, the Harlot is the synagogue of Satan. But even though the specific denominations of it may have gone bad, God still has a remnant. There's still the rest of the woman's offspring, those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. The wheat is still here next to the tares. No I do not. I haven't been in a church service since I was a little kid. I was making a delivery in a Catholic Church last week. I was glad to leave, it looked spooky. And it smelled strange.

I still can't figure out from your note that Jerusalem is Babylon. It just means to me Lucifer's Harlot in the end times is dressing himself up in the Levitical High Priest colors. Like a false prophet. Claiming to be God. It says the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. Our Lord was Crucified outside the city, not in Jerusalem. By a "Great City" made up of citi-zens that screamed Crucify Him! Hard hearts like the Pharaoh of Egypt. If you think it's Jerusalem, how is Jerusalem going to be in control of the composite beast? How is Jerusalem ever going to be the "Harlot" which rides, or controls, the 7 headed, 10 horn composite beast? A better question would be not how, but when do you think Jerusalem would ever be able to direct our end time composite beast? In my view the 7 headed, 10 horned composite beast, the great city, the harlot, and the 8th king are things which have been happening, and are happening now. Peaceful Sabbath.

I like reading your note, good job. A good watchman watches in all directions, but the Babylon of Revelation is not America/Israel. I promise that I'm pretty sure of this one. An Islamic alliance will never destroy America. Lol. Islam is just a small part of the symbolic Babylon of Revelation. Even though the USA is not Babylon, Babylon is still in the USA. America is the earth who helped the woman, a place prepared by God to nurture the Christian Church after the dark ages in Europe ended. We are the only nation complete with a Bible Belt. And though I can't really say we shouldn't worry about the USA being destroyed, because I think we're even closer to that time than 2027, when the time comes for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth. Somewhere in that enigmatic text, the earth gets destroyed, when the Rock not formed by human hand smashes everything to smithereens. My AI in the Brave Browser pins Babylon pretty good: The USA is responsible for more of the printing, translation, and distribution of the Bible around the world, and more Christian Missionary services than any other nation on earth. Does that really sound like a "corrupt entity that influences the world negatively"? I can't see anything in your note that would let me pinpoint a specific year for something to happen. Eclipses, and asteroids, and the biblical month of Av. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Did the Wizard of OZ predict WW2 in 1939? Nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom? Sorry, but I digress. I do agree with you, there is a lot going on right now. For sure. I'd rather avoid saying what I think the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation are about, and instead focus on the prophetic time periods themselves of when they have, and are, and will occur. There's other items which let me count Biblical spans of time from the middle ages which are much more compelling to consider driving a conclusion that the things are happening prior to 2027, or are even happening now. But a thing I just recently noticed is that if we are counting from 1535, or 1536, or even 1537, back when those years were happening people did not celebrate New Years in January like we just did. New Years back then was still from March 25 to April 1 on the Julian deal. Pope Gregory's Gregorian didn't begin until 1582. Back then the crowns were still on the heads of the composite beast. Now the crowns have shifted to the horns, the governmental side of Babylon. When God does a thing it becomes Holy, not that the thing is holy so that God does it. Like when the Commander of the Lord's army told Joshua to take the sandals off his feet for the place where he stood was holy ground. Joshua’s act of obedience and reverence is highlighted in that passage. In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent. A flood was spewing forth from the Dragon's mouth but with the help of men like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson a holy place, the "earth", would be made ready to help the woman, the Bride, after 1260 years of papal persecution came to an end in 1798. The first nation on the planet complete with a "Bible Belt" was to be born when it was previously illegal to be caught with one. In 1776 America was founded and would become a safe place for God's People to own, print and study their Bibles. Prior to this in the dark ages of Europe, entire villages of Christian men, women and children had none of these religious freedoms and were burnt at the stake more often than not for reading, or owning, or translating their own Bibles. This was the Dragon chasing the woman and these estimated 75 million or more Christian martyrs would become the 5th seal souls beneath the alter. Lucifer was the hand that used the early church like a glove which hit the woman very hard during the middle ages. The founding fathers of the USA made sure that church and state were separate, America! America! God shed His Grace on thee. This land was made for you and me. Peaceful Sabbath.

Too late for the laity, I've already gone down that road. There have been previous Bible Prophecy expositors who have noticed: "Apocalyptic prophecy has “only one fulfillment”, which is proven by those events within prophecy that have been fulfilled to date." "Apocalyptic prophecy has a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. When the subject matter changes, a new prophecy begins. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. Before I show how Daniel 9 is different, how Daniel 9 is not just any ordinary Apocalyptic prophecy, it should be helpful to first review the other prophecy types for comparison. Then it should be easy for all to spot it. I always remember hearing of how the Bible is 2/3's prophecy. But not all of that prophecy is of the same type. Five Types of Bible Prophecy: 1) Local Prophecy These would include Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh. Maybe that old time king who saw his shadow move backwards, and Moses' dealings with Pharaoh and the curses of Egypt.. 2) Messianic Prophecy These had to do specifically with our Lord's first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52 He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions Behold, my servant shall act wisely; he shall be high and lifted up, and shall be exalted. As many were astonished at you— his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind— so shall he sprinkle many nations. Kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for that which has not been told them they see, and that which they have not heard they understand. 3) Day of the Lord Prophecy Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur calls them near/far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy the prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event to do with the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord event that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 4) Judaic Prophecy These are conditional in nature. Prophecies that pertained specifically to Ancient Israel. If you do this, then I will do that. If they put away the bodies of their dead kings, then show them the plan of the Temple. "If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God 5) Apocalyptic Prophecy Apocalyptic Prophesy has unique characteristics. These end time prophecies hold to chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. In Revelation, when that chronological order is broken, and the subject matter changes, a new prophecy will begin. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. But Daniel 9 is not just any ordinary Apocalyptic Prophecy. Daniel 9 is not JUST an Apocalyptic Prophecy. Read the descriptions and see if Daniel 9 matches and meets the specifications with all prophecy types. Daniel 9 is a Local Prophecy, speaking to Daniel's People in the first century, Daniel 9 is a Messianic Prophecy speaking to both of Christ's Visitations, first where he came as the Lamb to take away our sins, and the destruction of Jerusalem, then to the second Visitation with the consummation when the decreed end will be poured out on the desolator, Daniel 9 is a Day of the Lord Prophecy which speaks to both the destruction of Jerusalem, and the decreed end poured out on the desolator at the consummation. Daniel 9 is a Judaic Prophecy where Daniel's People had the chance to redeem the first set of 70 weeks which were "cut off", (chawthak), for them, they had the chance to let their Messiah gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks. And Daniel 9 is an Apocalyptic Prophecy predicting a 70th "week" which would precede the consummation, which is determined, that will be poured out on the desolator. Because there are two Visitations of Christ, there needed to be two timelines imbedded into that enigmatic text. Hence the 7 AND the 62 weeks. Until Messiah the Prince. If the Script didn't already split up the two timeframes, Newton wouldn't have been looking for an end time decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. And I would not be able to say that the decrees are here, the time has been fulfilled. The decrees are timed out again at the same 7 and 62 week intervals. This can't be random. Daniel 9 is not just any Apocalyptic prophecy that can be constrained by any man made hermeneutic. Peaceful Sabbath.

I agree. But I think we're still on track. I'm 99.9% sure. It has to be happening now. We're still in the heptad, the "days" continue their forward movement, until the heptad completes. Jesus confirms the covenant with many for one week. This is not the same week from the first century, this is one complete week of years happening in the end times. You can't get this from the text alone. If Newton, and therefore Widener, is correct, then the timing itself forces one of the verses of Daniel 9 to be speaking specifically to the end times. Our times. If we go past the point where I think it is, I'll boost this thread up and post some of my empirical. In the meantime, I think I figured out a new answer for the dual prophecy guy. Maybe I'll write a note on that and clarify to see if I can change his mind on it while we are waiting. Peaceful Sabbath.

I don't dispute the chronological order, or the events taking place on a global scale. I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up? The reprobate minded are the outer court, do not measure them. They are not going to get a "heads up" until the day the flood comes and takes them all away. Do you think that the 6th Trumpet and remaining Vials can be completed over a span of 40 days? The no flesh saved alive days? I still don't see why the Trumpets could not have started sounding, and the vials not began pouring in 2022. Based on the timing we were talking about in this thread, they had to have started by then. Along with a few other big things, they have to be happening now. If you, like others, can agree that the Seals have started already a long time ago, but may be spoken of in symbolic language, then the Trumpets and Vials may be of the same kind. You might think that the Trumpets occurring as literal examples might be the catalyst for the mark of the beast. As these judgements begin to fall in quick succession, people will know that God is angry with mankind's degenerate and transgressive behavior. This will enable the Antichrist to be revealed, and working through the worlds governments, set up fast emergency actions for the purpose of appeasing God. They will think if we do not do something, God is going to kill us all. So because of these literal Trumpets, people will follow, and agree to do the things that they never would normally do. But if this scenario were to take place, it would violate what Jesus said about His coming as a thief, at an hour that we do not expect. If this scenario were to occur then everyone would know we were in one of the days of the Son of Man. Then everyone would know that the God of the Bible is coming back. I think that the five months of the 5th Trumpet was coincident with the 1st Vial, they were the same thing, and has just recently occurred. So if I'm correct with the timing, this global event has only had an impact on the men who have taken the mark of the beast. That means the mark of the beast has already just happened, and is happening now. The 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials ARE in chronological order. But the Seals began a long time ago and span a long number of years. These three prophecies align in chronological order, and connect like the layers of a wedding cake, not in a consecutive order. These things must all be happening now, like a tribulum of the Matrix, people are all walking around like things are normal. But they are not normal. And in the midst of it all, Jesus is calmly saying: (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) Peaceful Sabbath.

I mostly agree with you here, and your note in the rapture thread. Although I tend to think salvation begins closing in stages before the trumpets and vials are all finished. It's basically the judgement of the living prior to Christ's Arrival, because when He appears, we will be like Him. It has to be completed before He gets here. So I don't worry as much about the mark of the beast as maybe I should. I suspect we are already late in the trumpets and vials, where the frog like demons are already sent out to the kings of the earth to gather them for that great battle. As all the creatures in the sea of many nations and peoples and tongues are as dead as the dead who will eventually march across the broad plain of the earth. I would have agreed more with this a couple years ago. No doubt God is dealing with the problem of sin. He is going to eradicate sin. Maybe force is a strong word. He can also send them a strong delusion. But God's delusion is a strong force. So that they believe the lie. Not only them, but also those who approve and practice the lie. I think we're already late into the trumpets and vials, where God has given them over to a reprobate mind. In a landscape where the censer is cast down, He puts an end to ALL sacrifices and offerings, and the night has finally come where in it no man can work. I think we're closer to the actual second coming than most realize. Just little babies are still being born. Woe to pregnant women. Some of those are our brothers and fellow servants.

And so this is the subject of the thread that I would have loved to talk about. Even though I don't see Dr. Christian as being correct in his data, he sure is a nice guy. And he is working with the correct formula. Me and a couple other guys were working hard on this around 2015 and 2017 on another forum. Those were the most exciting times I had ever spent on an internet forum. We were all working together like we were on the same team. It was a virtual idea factory. There was a pastor's wife from Florida who was smart. She got the holy grail link from the ISA, the archives of the government of the State of Israel. That link doesn't even work anymore. Spooky. When I click on it it says you need to have an invitation, or is "open to invited readers only." The link had another link in it which connected to an order signed by Levi Eshkol in 1969. The Hebrew text wasn't readable to us at the time, but twice we could read the old typed date 1968 (14.8.68). This to me at the time was like gold. The minutes of the Knesset weren't exactly forthcoming on the net. I had thought I would need to go to a library in Israel and dig though microfiche files. Lol. Even the legal forum where the link originated from said something about it being odd that the paperwork made it to the President's Office, as these types of public works orders never made it that high. And here is where the only reason is that I wondered if I could be wrong. Levi Eshkol. After the 6 day war in the spring of 1968, the Sate of Israel expropriated the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem. The Knesset debated the specifics of creating a company for the rebuilding and restoration of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. Then the paperwork was sent to the President to be signed. And Levi Eshkol was the quintessential Jew. He was a Jew's Jew. He knew all the important history and regulations required to be a Jew. Before he became President, he was on the panel that would decide who could come back to Israel and be a Jew. So he must have known all the dates of when the temple was built, commanded to be rebuilt, and all the dates of when it was destroyed. He certainly would have known of the Ottoman command to rebuild the temple in 1535. He would have certainly known that if he had waited a bit and signed the paperwork in 1969, his decree would be exactly 62 weeks, 434 years, after the Sulieman command in 1535. But he signed it and the company went live in January 1969, Levi died that same month. So I don't think he was a practical joker. For anyone reading this and wants a better understanding of what we're talking about, but doesn't have the time to read a book, there's a quick way to thumb through it. Like I wanted to know quickly, without reading a book, exactly which stone plaques the book author was counting from? These dates are crucial, if we're hoping to be accurate in our count of weeks. He says the dates are carved in stone. So... On a windows computer, with Firefox, or a chrome browser, go to the web page with the book. When the page loads as a PDF in the browser, hold CTRL+F and the "FIND" blank will pop up. Then type: STONE in the blank. Then hit the right arrow to fly though the book and see every place where it's written carved in STONE. https://witnessingtheend.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/witnessing-the-end_2023_free-pdf-1.pdf Signal Failure A cool little quote, from the search of stone. A Miracle in Stone When the end of the present dispensation shall come has been an anxious question among Christians for nearly two thousand years. Inquiry, and desire to be informed about it, is the natural fruit of faith in what has been foretold and promised in the Scriptures. No one should be censured or lose caste for being concerned to know when the great things of his hopes are to be consummated. The holy Apostles themselves were deeply exercised and often inquired with reference to this point. But God has seen best to throw a thick veil over it, which we should not obtrusively try to lift by an over-curiosity of ours. And by whatever indications led to think our redemption on the eve of accomplishment, we should never lose sight of the Saviour’s answer to those who sought his instructions on this point, namely: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” It is uncertain and dangerous ground on which to adventure. Almost every century since our Lord’s ascension has had its time set in human speculations for his return to judge the quick and the dead, but thus far all such attempts to fix upon the date have utterly failed, to the great discomfiture of those who thought themselves amply assured, thus piling up demonstration on demonstration to the truth of the Master’s words: “Of that day and that hour knoweth no man.” The Rationalistic world is ever parading these signal failures as the standing reproach of all prophetic study, and we put ourselves in the position of very unapt and unwilling scholars if we are not effectively admonished by them to suppress our zeal and to practice becoming reserve touching specific dates of unfulfilled predictions. — Joseph Seiss, A Miracle in Stone (1877)

I think the way you have it worded is perfect. That's technical analysis. The 70 weeks is the driver of the understanding, from there we make all the connections. Price action makes for market commentary. Trade the charts, do not trade a story. There's too many stories out there. The pilot flies by his instrumentation, when poor visibility precludes the use of ground flight rules. We see through the glass dimly. Our price action, charts and gauges are in those prophetic time periods found in Daniel and Revelation. Let me find the 7 and 62 weeks, and like the wise men in the 1st century, I'll know when to be looking for His star in the east. These prophetic time periods can force the understanding of what the symbolic imagery is about. Like the skilled pilot trusting his gauges, we can be very sure of where we are in navigating the prophetic landscape. So if we were very sure we were in the 70th week already, through the process of elimination, we would know that the Two Witnesses were something other than what the Hal Lindsey model suggested them to be to us. Like Art Doyle said: "once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Thanks for your reply. Time moves forward from every decree, every command, to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. No need to cut time, cut the week in half, or to reverse the times and seasons. There's no violation of the natural laws of physics or time. No damage has been done to the chronology, or to the language, of Daniel. With God, all things are possible. I agree with Daniel 7, not so much with Daniel 2. Daniel 7 has a prophetic time period associated with it. Apocalyptic prophecy has a beginning point in time, an ending point in time and a prophetic time period attached. It follows a chronological order so that when that chronology is broken, and the subject matter changes, a new prophecy usually begins. In the Books of Daniel and Revelation there are 17 prophecies and 18 prophetic time periods. My historical facts are more complete than your historical facts. Only I know that. So it's not really all that fair of a discussion for you while I hold one hand behind my back. When I said: "it's still looking to me like the historical facts are speaking for themselves now, and forcing another understanding, I was not referring as far back as 457BC, or 27AD, or Friday, April 7, 30AD. Just as far back as 1535, and 62 weeks later in 1969. The things Isaac Newton said to be looking for, appear to be here now. And those are the things some of us, like the book writer in the OP, are reverse engineering our understanding of the text in Daniel 9. Dual prophecy, or a dual fulfillment of prophecy, might not be the correct terminology for Daniel 9. Maybe it's a near/far prophecy, or an overlay prophecy. Or maybe we shouldn't try to label it at all. It's an is what it is prophecy. It's only because Jesus is coming twice, the prophetic time periods, the 7 AND 62, had to be applicable to both visitations. That's what makes Daniel 9 different. So if we are correct, verses 9:26, and 9:27, are speaking to two different weeks, at the conclusion of two sets of 70 weeks, all finding their origins in various different decrees to restore Jerusalem. Israel taking control of Jerusalem, or the temple mount, isn't what mattered. It was the command itself that came to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem, even before the construction began, that set the clock ticking. Thanks. Peaceful Sabbath.

I don't mind you believing this. I wouldn't be worried about convincing you otherwise. This might have been something that I would have agreed with as recently as 2013. Even now you are probably more than 90% correct. Isaiah 61 ► English Standard Version The Year of the LORD’s Favor 1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor,,, "And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3to grant to those who mourn in Zion— to give them a beautiful headdress instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit; that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified. Ultimately, it is God who has the authority to tell others that this event or that event has yet another fulfillment, or multiple to come. Or to say that: “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” It's easy to understand that there's only one 1290 day time period of the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12, and only one time period of 1335 days when the saints are blessed reaching the end of. And there's only one, one thousand year millennium in Revelation 20, and that there's only one 5 month span of time when the men who have taken the mark of the beast will feel the scorpion's sting taking place in Chapter 9. There's only one span of 1260 days when the Two Witnesses will be given authority, and then lay dead in the streets for 3.5 days in Chapter 11. And only one span of 42 months when the second beast gives his authority to the composite beast in Chapter 13. And so on and so forth. But Christ the Messiah has two comings, two visitations. And Daniel 9 is the only place that sets out the timing for them in great detail. I'm not sure we can find an all purpose rule, a standard hermeneutic, which can easily address that enigmatic language in Daniel 9. If the Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks, maybe a second coming would not have been necessary. Jesus would have gathered them then and there, as a hen gathers it's chicks. Daniel 9 had to be written in a tricky way, where a provision for a second visitation could be embedded within the text. Isaac Newton originally suggested this in the middle ages. He thought that's the reason why the weeks were split up as 7 AND 62, instead of Daniel saying 69 weeks until Messiah the Prince. People have been looking at this a long time, it's not a new theory. And as I continue to believe that the time to post the proof for this is past, it's still looking to me like the historical facts are speaking for themselves now. The prophetic time periods spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, are forcing the understanding, not the text alone. So if I am correct, if the author from the book mentioned in the post by the OP is sort of correct, it points to a new understanding in the differences between verses 9:26, and 9:27. Even so, Come Lord Jesus. Peaceful Sabbath.

I agree we're in the final heptad of Daniel 9, in the second set of 70 weeks. I saw your note on stackexhange hermenutics. It's disappointing there wasn't some better replies from the wise and learned over there. I think those people are more like seminary school types. And even though I agree that Dr. Christian is in the right ballpark, I don't think he is correct in his detail. I don't think he's correct about 9:27. Or the stone plaques he travelled to Jerusalem to take pictures of. Or about what is going to happen, and when it is going to happen. I sent him a note with other evidence which shows the timing to be sooner, even to the month. I also think he's a very nice guy. And a hard and enthusiastic worker. And this is a big subject, the biggest of all time. Scary for most. Some people have been working on this for a very long time. If you bring up something with them that is different, or radical to them, it can make them uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure the time to post the empirical for it on a public forum is past anyway. Just have to sit back and wait as it all plays out. Like Isaac Newton said, let time be the interpreter. And welcome to the forum.

I knew it. I was just joking around. Well if it was there, I bet you would have found it. I was being a smart alec when I said find it in Daniel. I don't think it's that easy because the NT is based on a different language. "The word "hour" does not occur in the Old Testament until we come to the Book of Daniel, one of the last books written, and the only reason we find it in Daniel is because of a poor translation. The ancient Jews never thought in terms of hours. In the five places in Daniel where our Bibles have the word "hour," the Aramaic word so translated is "shaah," which means literally "look" or "glance" and should have been rendered "moment" or "in the twinkling of an eye." "For instance, in the King James version, Daniel 3 : 6 reads: "And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace." In Dr. Moffatt's new translation, in place of "the same hour," the word "instantly" is correctly used. - Time in Bible Times, Potter, C. F. Page 164. https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1941JRASC..35..163P&db_key=AST&page_ind=1&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES I have other reasons to suspect it's a veiled reference to another of the Prophetic Time periods found in Daniel and Revelation: 1. Time, times and half a time (saints persecuted – Daniel 7:25) 2. 2,300 evenings and mornings (until temple restored – Daniel 8:14) 3. 70 weeks (determined upon the Jews, Messiah crucified – Daniel 9:24,25) 4. Time, times and half a time (when completed, power of the holy people broken – Daniel 12:7) 5. 1,290 days (from the end of the daily to the setting up of the abomination – Daniel 12:11) 6. 1,335 days (blessed is the one who waits for and reaches this day – Daniel 12:12) 7. Half hour of silence (at the opening of the 7th seal – Revelation 8:1) 8. 5 months (length of torture upon those not having the seal of God – Revelation 9:5) 9. Hour, day, month and year (punctiliar event when war begins – Revelation 9:15) 10. 42 months (Gentiles trample holy city – Revelation 11:2) 11. 1,260 days (Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time – Revelation 11:3) 12. 3.5 days (bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street – Revelation 11:11) 13. 1,260 days (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:6) 14. Time, times and half a time (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:14) 15. 42 months ( beast was allowed to exercise authority – Revelation 13:5) 16. One hour (ten kings join with beast – Revelation 17:12) 17. One day, one hour (Babylon’s destruction begins – Revelation 18:8,19) 18. 1,000 years (Satan in the abyss – Revelation 20:2) We need to really review the various uses of the Greek "hora". https://biblehub.com/greek/5610.htm It could be a season, a designated period of time, a divinely pre-set time-period; a limited period to accomplish the Lord's specific purpose, i.e. "the hour" in which specific characteristics prevail exactly like that for a limited time, or, based on the context, the final hour of one's life. And like how Ezekiel lay on his side 40 days, each day for a year. He was silent for those 40 days after the Crucifixion until the siege of Jerusalem, when the silence was broken. Heaven, the Prophetic voice spoke: "Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her. The one I have in mind now is in the midst of the "week", the middle of the week. That's an example where a designated space of time is already split in half for us. About the space of half a heptad. Thanks Charlie. Both I think. Like how the Two Witnesses lay dead silent in the street for 3.5 days. The Prophetic Voice goes silent. The angels and the elders already know what's happening. I'm afraid there's a big reason for it. The seventh seal is serious. And, unlike some of the members, I don't think those who dwell in heaven are too worried, or apprehensive about witnessing the wicked being punished. The time has come to destroy the destroyers of the earth. Remember the vials: "Just are you, O Holy One, who is and who was, for you brought these judgments. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!” And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are your judgments!” Yes thank you as well Charlie for the thread. That Day of Atonement idea looks big to me. Big. I didn't think of it before. It gave me a new path to investigate. There's a guy, C.F. Lovett. The Rock Island Book guy. Remember the Berisheet prophecy video dissecting the first verse of Genesis? Declaring the end from the beginning? That guy has a bunch of videos, he makes me nervous. The ones that have 2024 in the title. He thinks the 70th week begins on the Day of Atonement this year. You and I both know the 70th week was from 27AD to 34AD, but there might be more than one way to calculate a heptad, to count a "seven". Some think we're in another count of the "sevens' right now. Anyway, if you're a video guy, you can search this title on you t u b e: 2024: Mystery of the 4th Day on the LORD'S 1000 Years for a Day Calendar. Take care Charlie.

I thought you were a Daniel guy. Find the 30 minutes in Daniel and you might be finding it in Revelation too. That's what I'm asking too. I'm just thinking about it now, trying to figure it out while typing. There's another forum where a guy's doing a thread about this. He thinks the 30 minutes are 3.5 years, or 1290 days. He's using Enoch and "forthwith I saw how the shepherds pastured for twelve hours, and behold three of those sheep turned back and came and entered and began to build up all that had fallen down of that house; but the wild boars tried to hinder them, but they were not able.” - 1 Enoch 5:108 He thinks: "The twelve hours in Enoch’s parable equates to the seventy years of exile between Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus the Great. If twelve hours equals seventy years, then silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years." It's interesting but I doubt it's just that. He got close to the timing I think it is. I wish he would come and post over here, because I can't post over there. I think I know what you might be thinking in the other post: Might be a reference to the length of time it took for the High Priest to take the fire from the bronze altar that is in the outer court of the Temple and then to enter the Holy Place and to use the altar fire to burn incense on the golden altar in front of the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant had been kept and then to return to where the people were assembled to give them the priestly blessing. The whole procedure took about 30 minutes. "Slowly the incensing priest and his assistants ascended the steps to the Holy Place, preceded by the two priests who had formerly dressed the altar and the candlestick, and who now removed the vessels they had left behind, and, worshipping, withdrew. Next, one of the assistants reverently spread the coals on the golden altar; the other arranged the incense; and then the chief officiating priest was left alone within the Holy Place, to await the signal of the president before burning the incense. It was probably while thus expectant that the angel Gabriel appeared to Zacharias (Luke 1:8-11). As the president gave the word of command, which marked that 'the time of incense had come,' 'the whole multitude of people without' withdrew from the inner court, and fell down before the Lord, spreading their hands in silent prayer. It is this most solemn period, when throughout the vast Temple buildings deep silence rested on the worshipping multitude, while within the sanctuary itself the priest laid the incense on the golden altar, and the cloud of 'odours' (5:8) rose up before the Lord, which serves as the image of heavenly things in this description." - Alfred Edersheim, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Jesus, page 167. It's interesting, but I don't think that's all it is. But if this is it, I could make a case for the 30 minutes to be happening now. The silence in Revelation's heaven always reminded me of Zechariah 2:13, and Zephaniah 1:7. Interesting they both start with the last letter of our English alphabet. "Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near; the LORD has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests. "Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling. But it's addressing "all flesh". In Revelation, the silence is coming from heaven. The Prophetic Voice is silenced, like a pause or freeze frame suspended animation. Like the Two Witnesses laying dead silent in the streets of the Great City for 3.5 days, the silence is broken then by a loud voice coming from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. Go to the main prophecy subject page here and type hora in the search area and hit enter. There's a bunch of smart guys here. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/search/?q=hora&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=11 "The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, mean- ing Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly suc- cession of the processes of nature. "Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use. Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour." Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length." - Time in Bible Times : Potter, C. F. https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1941JRASC..35..163P So hour is simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning point, and an ending point. It could even point to a "seven" from Daniel. A heptad, or about the space of half a heptad. About the space of half of a designated duration of time. This is our finest hour.

I agree. I think that we are much closer to the actual second coming than is being widely recognized. I was watching the open source news on twitter yesterday with the Iran attack. It was that strange mix of excitement and fear. I agree we're right up against the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet, and the 7th vial. I can also make a case for the 7th seal to have been opened half way through 2021. We're in the half an hour of silence, which is half of a "hora", half a season, or half of a heptad. This one I can't. I still easily can calculate a final heptad, a final complete seven year cycle to Messiah the Prince. It's not like the traditional dispensational understanding of the 70th week, a 7 year tribulation. There were two more modern day decrees to restore Jerusalem that match with the 7 and 62 weeks. A bit off topic. I found a Jewish guy in an hour long video. He uses some Sanhedrin writing, 97a, that describes what takes place in each of the seven years prior to the appearance of their Messiah. He and I agree with the timing of the last heptad, 2018 to 2025 (January). Interesting video. It's not my normal sort of thing. Long video. He seems to be using his version of a calendar to isolate 2018 as the first year of the last seven, then matching the various events of severe weather, plague, lockdown, better times of plenty, and now various wars, with the various years. That part about the "Torah is forgotten by those who study it". Torah = The Law. Like in our Bibles where it says Lawlessness will abound. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. Increased lawlessness, for the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But: "During the fifth year there will be great plenty and they will eat, and drink, and rejoice, and the Torah will return to those who study it." Remember the Bud Light and Target backlash against the Sodomites, and the overturning of Roe/Wade? Returning to the Torah?, returning to the Law? Roe/Wade was one of the composite beast's crowning achievements. It was overturned in the 5th year, 2022. Lawlessness actually decreased that year. The Torah returns, Thou shalt not kill. People on a news forum were asking why is this Roe/Wade overturning happening now after all this time? I don't think those things could have happened during the previous 42 months of the beast's authority. And in the 7th Sanhedrin year, wars. The video ends with a comet visitation this year in September. If we make it that far. Lol. You can find it on U Tube by searching: Will Mashiach Come This Year? by Efraim Palvanov

Your welcome. Thanks for the thread. Welcome to Worthy. Tough to say by looking at the text alone. If there were a good way that we could be pretty sure we were already late in the last Heptad, we would know whatever the Two Witnesses are, they would have had to begin in early 2018. It says they prophesy for 1260 days, then are dead in the street for three and a half days. So since I quickly noticed at the time, we are still here, the 3.5 days must be 3.5 years. Another guy, on another forum, also figured out that the 3.5 days were (probably) 3.5 years. Partly just because it fits. Price action makes for market commentary. Trade the charts, do not trade a story. There's too many stories out there. With Daniel and Revelation, there are usually two things happening now at once. 1) There's a prophecy occurring, and 2) there is the prophetic time period that it's taking place in. It's much easier to identify the time period itself, than it is to know for sure the details of the prophecy before it begins. The Two Witnesses were just here. They had to be. They are the measuring rod given to John to measure the inner court. We are the inner court. This, at it's basic level, is the judgment of the living prior to Christ's appearing. The Prophetic Time period forces the Two Witnesses to be something other than what the Hal Lindsey model suggested them to be to us. The Beast, Satan, the one that ascended from the bottomless pit, has already made war on them, and killed them. Their bodies are lying dead in the street right now. The 3.5 days are 3.5 years. It's happening now. The Two Witnesses were the personification of seemingly inanimate objects. Like that phrase in the U.S. of how a "bill" was killed in congress. The Two Witnesses had to be killed sometime prior to Friday June 24, 2022. Because the Beast's authority has ended too. John has finished measuring the inner court. We are in the night when no man can work. Think of the Two Witnesses as the two Olive Trees and the two Lamp Stands. Two of one thing, and two of another thing. The Holy Spirit, and the Bible. The Law, and the Prophets. The OT, and the NT. The fire that comes out from their mouths is the fire that comes out of the mouth of the Holy Spirit inspired Bible on judgment day and destroys their enemies. That is how they are doomed to be killed. The Bible SPEAKS of fire that will fill the earth some day. "They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, This is not a drought, this is the symbolic rain that James was speaking of. From the mouth of James 5:7 says: “Be patient, therefore, beloved until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious crop from the earth, being patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains.” The early and latter rains symbolize spiritual blessings from above which help nourish and soften our hearts so that we may grow in Christ. Spiritual blessings include the gift of the Holy Spirit and the truth of Scriptures. The early rains began when our Lord and the apostles went out to preach the Gospel to the world. These truths were like blessed rain pouring down upon the dry land (parched without God’s truth). We are now just past the days of the latter rains. The Gospel of the Kingdom has reached, and been preached to all the nations. We are at the end which has come. The land remains parched without God's truth. The land, the Earth, will vomit out its inhabitants. We are deep now into the seals, the trumpets and the vials. The frog like demons have already been sent out to the kings of the earth to gather them for that great battle of God Almighty. The planet has broken temperature records. Florida has set an all time high in sea water temperature last summer of over 101 Fahrenheit, over 38 Celsius. Last summer smoke from forest fires in Canada darkened the skies in NYC. The sun has been given the power to scorch men. "The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him. Many of the signs were subtle. So that they could be easily dismissed, both for those who are not willing to accept it, or for those who are perishing. And so that even though we are not in darkness so that that day should overtake us as a thief, the Son of Man will still be able to come like a thief, to come at an hour that we do not expect. It had to be that way. Think about it like if Moses and Elijah were travelling around killing the reprobate with fire shooting out from their mouths, everyone would know that we were in one of the days of the Son of Man. Then everyone would know that His Hour is here. On this we agree. I don't think that it is a coincidence. That is spooky. But it could also be something like how Passover is calculated by the first new moon of the year, and a total solar eclipse also happens only on a new moon. Even so, Come Lord Jesus. Peaceful Sabbath.

Is the eclipse on April 8 a warning? I vote yes. Just because it's happening at this time now. It's not just a stand alone event. It's occurring within a larger narrative of signs which could only have been put there by One Hand. The Revelation 12 sign, and the first American eclipse, happened in the year prior, (2017), to where I measure the start of the last heptad. This year's American eclipse happens in the year before where I measure the Heptad's completion, (January 2025), based on Levi Eshkol's decree to restore the Old City of Jerusalem in January 1969. Which came right on schedule, 62 weeks, 434 years, after the Ottoman Decree in 1535. The chance for those two unique events, to be timed out as they were, would probably be pretty rare for randomizing. The cries from these stones are reaching their crescendo now. I read another guy said this on another forum. He sincerely believes it. He called it the season of the locust, May to September. I also think it could happen over that span of time now, even as short as 40 days. But I'm very sure that I could prove that the actual five months of Revelation 9 just happened already, beginning in the spring of 2022. And it continues to this year. Men continue to ask for death but death flees from them. In the first month of this year alone, in various places, there were more new cases of it than in the total global five month outbreak. The men who have taken the mark of the beast continue to ask for death, for the penalty of sin is death, but death flees from them. They gnawed their tongues for pain, and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. Amen to that. Without Him, we can do nothing. I will be very surprised if I am wrong, because if I am correct, it's not me being correct. A man can receive nothing unless it comes from Heaven, and comes from Him Who dwells there. Me too. In 2013. I started off with Joel's Trumpet and Worthy in 2013. I was saying to GET HOLY FAST. Because of Revelation 3: "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. It sounded to me like we had to be a certain way prior to the start of the appointed time of the end. That is interesting. I could see it happening by then. According to my understanding, it has to happen this year, technically by January 2025. I think the Antichrist was just here. He is the second beast from Revelation 13, the Dragon, the destroyer, Abaddon, who has given his power, and his throne, and his great authority to the composite beast, and he is that same beast which has risen from the bottomless pit in Revelation 11. The Two Witnesses have already been made war on, and conquered and killed by him, and their dead bodies are laying in the street of the great city now. The Two Witnesses had to be killed in the time prior to Friday June 24, 2022. (Roe/Wade was one of the composite beast's crowning achievements. That could never have been overturned during his 42 months of authority.) I believe we are much closer to the actual second coming than people are recognizing. The majority of Christians are like the men travelling on the road to Emmaus. Not that that's a bad thing. I think that the Gospel has already been preached to all the nations, (John Chau 2018), and we are living in the end which has come. Which is the night when no man can work. I think the sea had become like the blood of a dead man in 2022, and every living thing that was in the sea has died now. As the sea is defined as many nations and peoples and tongues which the composite beast has risen from. These are dead men walking. The throne of the beast has been plunged into darkness, they loved the darkness, in them there is no Light. God has given them blood to drink. These people who have taken the mark of the beast are cut off now from the living waters that flow out from Christ. This is, as John MacArthur called it, the wrath of abandonment. God gave them over to a reprobate mind. It's just the new babies being born now. "but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; "but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.” I wish, or hope that we can be more excited about it all. Be glad to be here at this time. Comfort one another with these words. And not to be as much apprehensive. I look forward to Jesus coming and to start that process of righting all the wrongs. And to seeing our friends and families again, for we will be comforted. And to be in the presence of the Lord and to witness the glory of His Might. God bless everybody here and Godspeed Peaceful Sabbath.

This is where I think you've come the closest. But you're a couple years off. It wasn't the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967, although that was important. In 1968 the Knesset debated a document that eventually found it's place all the way up to Levi Eshkol's desk in January 1969. Like John had said. You have heard the Antichrist is coming, even then there were many antichrists. But Paul's only talking about one Son of Perdition, only one specific "Man of Sin". They are sent out to the kings of the earth. Armageddon is bigger than a local, or regional battle. The world is at war with God. Satan's Kingdom is not divided. They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon. This is like a Hebrew Couplet, but a Hebrew Triplet. Like that comedy movie where the same bad actor plays multiple roles. But Satan's Kingdom is not divided. They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon. Satan is the Dragon, Satan is that beast which has ascended from the bottomless pit, and Satan is the false prophet. Out of Satan's mouth, only Satan can command his army. His house is not divided.

Sir, I answer, you must know. Then the next verses after the ones you quote: "On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife. Like the same instructions we read in Matthew after the Abomination of Desolation warning. Like when you see the days of the Sodomites. Like on the day that Lot left out from Sodom. Remember Lot's wife, there's no looking back. Sudden destruction and they did not escape.

I agree that it's happening now. I think that it's way easier to be correct with the timing of it, than to figure out what the events are. I think a lot of people can't notice it because they are holding onto a bunch of historical misinterpretations of the events. Like the old Late Great Book. I think Hal said the kings of the east were the Asian Countries like China and Japan. I think the Kings FROM the East are God the Father, and Jesus. "The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. Is like: “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, The Euphrates river was always a large natural obstacle preventing invading armies from the north coming down to destroy Israel back in the old Biblical times. When this river symbolically dries up, the green light is then given for the Kings from the East to bring Divine Destruction. Like the angel ascending from the "east" bringing the seal of God, and the lightning of Jesus coming from the "east" to the west, the Kings from the East are heavenly Visitors. God the Father, and His Son Jesus: "They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of: a) Him who sits on the throne and b) from the wrath of the Lamb! So I don't think it's likely going to be Asian armies, like from the Late Great Planet Earth, that travel to a literal valley north of Israel, but Divine Destroyers that come from the Biblical north wind of heaven. Evil comes from the north. Nebuchadnezzar came down from the north and wiped out Jerusalem. "For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction." ... Set up the banner in Zion: come together, do not delay: for I bring evil from the north wind, ... "Then the LORD said, "This means destruction will break out from the north on all ... cry, O city; Melt away, O Philistia, all of you; For smoke comes from the north, ... "Egypt is like a very fair heifer, but destruction cometh; it cometh out of the north. "Then the LORD said to me, "Out of the north the evil will break forth on all the inhabitants of the land. And notice during a time of restoration God removes the northerner: “I will remove the northerner far from you, and drive him into a parched and desolate land, his vanguard into the eastern sea, I think a bunch of the things that the prophecy prognosticators were having us watch for, have already just happened, and are happening right now. It's all about the Devil. We are just caught up in his bargain. We are living in his kingdom right now, the kingdom of the rebels, when the rebels have become completely wicked. I don't know the answers, but I don't think it can go on like this indefinitely. According to my understanding, we're getting close to a hard stop in time. I agree it's happening right now before our eyes. Maybe we're too close to the events to figure them all out. I think we're right up against the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh vial. The frog demons are already gone out to gather the kings of the earth for that Great Battle. The other thread was worried about America coming into judgment. I wouldn't worry about it. If or when that happens, it's like you say, the rest of the planet is toast too. But we do not mourn as others do who have no hope. Peaceful Sabbath.

I'm mainly posting for the OP. What is he thinking now that we're past a specific point in time. Are the prophetic time periods painting us into a corner? Or do the time periods demand that the Two Witnesses have to be something other than Moses and Elijah? Can the prophetic time periods demand another understanding that the Two Witnesses were something other than what the prophecy expositors always told us they would be? It does seem like a lot of speculation. But in my case I'm counting heptads from specific events that are not replaceable in time. Unique events which are timed out at specific Biblically stated intervals. I would be seriously surprised if I am wrong. Because it's not my private case. Other people have looked at it. Isaac Newton was the first to suggest it in the 1700's. The things he said to be looking for, appear to be here now. I just think that the time to post the empirical is past. Other people have looked at the materials I'm talking about. It almost feels too rude or inappropriate to blurt out the dates now. Because of how close I think we are. Like Zechariah and Zephaniah, be silent before the Lord, Be silent before the face of the Lord God: for the day of the Lord is near. "Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling. I don't really know what to do about it. What am I doing? Not much. No new truck, no new kitchen or bathroom. No new roof. I got good at patching the old one where the raccoon chewed through. Lol. I would rather be close to home if something happens. So even though I still go to work, I don't go on vacation trips. I think the OP has stocked up on supplies. He has big store rooms. Not me. I don't think there's a long tribulation coming. Maybe a year of recompense, or even 40 days. Like the Days of Noah one. I think that the Gospel has already been preached to all the nations, we are at the end which has come. The thing Jesus was talking about as the night will come when no man can work. Only God knows how many more babies will be born. I have faith that the Lord is in charge of this, He can keep us from, through, or during, this time of trouble that comes upon the whole world. He can send His angels to make sure we don't stub a toe. We can be standing right next to a bad guy, and one will be taken, and one will be left alone. And I pray that we may all be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.

It's kind of a spooky note. I wouldn't worry about it though. It's amazing it was written in 1984. Especially with what's happening in Texas. This part here: "He said, "Remember this, Dumitru. The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety - from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,.." (He told me two other countries, but I didn't remember what they were.) "...they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!" On a news forum they're talking about that. All around the world they're noticing Texas. If the U.S. gets distracted with internal problems, other bad leaders might think it's a good time to act out their plans. If the U.S. did go down, there would be very little else to hold back the dogs of war. I imagine Russia, N. Korea, China, Hamas and Hezbollah would have a field day. Yesterday on a news forum, a poster from Ukraine who could barely write English said: "Hope that civil war in America not happened.You need kick away Biden without war.Globalists-satanists and illuminati can use this for chaos in America and whole world.