Marilyn C

Hi Ad Hoc, If there ever was a `somebody` who `did something so the earth became chaos,` then Christ would have needed to die back then. But no, all false. The Hebrew word for `renew` is to fill up, NOT to renew again as our English word. 1. The Tabernacle in heaven is God`s throne with Christ`s body the veil and His precious blood brought in. `the greater more perfect tabernacle ....the Most Holy Place.....to appear in the presence of God for us...` (Heb. 9: 11, 12, 24) 2. God`s word tells us that the `symbol` of the serpent in the garden is Satan. `the great dragon was cast out that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan,...` (Rev. 12: 9)

Yes, we have deviated, however the joy in my heart is that I will be with all the Body of Christ acclaiming the Lord Jesus Christ, heir of all of His Father`s estates, as He is visibly crowned before us all in the third heaven, the highest of all.

Hi William, It seems to me that you are seeing God`s prophecies as a jigsaw when in fact they are very clear for - Israel, the nations and the Body of Christ. You have muddled them all up.

`Now this is the main point of the things we are saying. We have such a high priest who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected and not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this one also should have something to offer. For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law; ...` (Heb. 8: 1 - 4) In the millennium there are priests, thus the Lord is NOT ON earth. `And I will take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. ` (Isa. 66: 21) `the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of my sanctuary....they shall enter my sanctuary....they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and the unholy...` (Ez. 44: 15, 16, 23) And you are confusing the word kingdom as to mean the Lord is there where in fact it is His rule over all of God`s great kingdom not just the earth.

Hi IS, I agree that the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel. However, those in Jeremiah 3: 14 are the one-third of Zechariah 13: 8. The context is Israel going into the millennium.

Hi Ad Hoc, Well, here we go again. The `throne on earth,` is called David`s throne. The Lord is over that but that is NOT the Lord`s seat of Power and Authority. That throne is in the highest on the heavenly Mount Zion. (Ps. 2: 6) When the Lord comes in power and great glory with His angelic army He has the authority and power of that heavenly throne. That is why it is called the `throne of His glory.` (Matt. 24: 31) No one on earth can give the Lord His throne, His power and authority. That is why he said, `My Kingdom (rule, authority) is not of (from) this world. (John. 18: 36) The `throne` in Rev. 4 is - Let us now look closer at the One on this throne -the High Priest and King. The gem stones are given to reveal more understanding to us. The Gem Stones. `And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3) The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8) Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer. (The Concise English Dictionary) Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe. The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion. The Emerald gem stone is also on the High Priest`s breastplate, and was for the tribe of Reuben. He was the first born of Jacob, and his heir. To the heir would be given three portions - the birthright, (double blessing), the priesthood and the kingdom. `and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.` (Rev. 4: 3) The `One` on the throne then is the High Priest of Heaven, the conqueror, the Sovereign Ruler and Heir of all the Father`s estates.

Thought you might like this list. The Precious Stones - Christ`s Rulership. The foundations of the walls are adorned with all kinds of precious stones. These were on the priest`s breastplate and represent Christ`s rulership. (Ex. 28: 15 – 21) Judgment – Heb. `mishpat,` meaning judgment, divine law, rulership. `And the foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the 1st foundation was the jasper, the 2nd sapphire, the 3rd chalcedony, the 4th emerald, the 5th sardonyx, the 6th sardius, the 7th chrysolite, the 8th beryl, the 9th topaz, the 10th chrysoprase, the 11th jacinth, & the 12th amethyst.` (Rev. 21: 19 & 20) Christ the Conqueror. 1. Jasper – Naphtali - `Conqueror.` 2. Sapphire – Simeon – `voice of God.` 3. Chalcedony – Zebulon - `dwelling.` Christ the conqueror, is the voice of God dwelling with His people. Christ the KingPriest. 4. Emerald – Reuben - `first born, Heir.` 5. Sardonyx – Asher - `blessing, Priest.` 6. Sardius – Judah - `King, ruler.` Christ the first born and heir rules as KingPriest giving spiritual blessings. Christ the Judge. 7. Chrysolite – Gad - `administers judgments with justice.` 8. Beryl – Dan. - `Judge.` 9. Topaz – Issachar - `wisdom.` Christ the wise Judge who administers judgments with justice. Christ at the Father`s Right Hand. 10. Chrysoprase – Manassah –`forgiveness` 11. Jacinth – Ephraim - `doubly fruitful.` 12. Amethyst – Benjamin - `At the right hand of the Father.` Christ at the Father`s right hand gives forgiveness & blessing. (The Stones – Ex: 28: 17 – 21, The Tribes – Num. 10: 14 – 27, The Meanings – Gen. 29: 32, 30: 1 – 24, 35: 18)

Hi IS, Good to talk with you about our precious Lord. Now why the difference. Well, it is because people may not have read Exodus 28 very carefully. You see the ephod had two stones and on them were gemstones according to the BIRTH names of the tribes of Israel. Then on the breastplate the gemstones were according to the TRIBES names. (Ex. 28: 10 & 21) Many people just read Ex. 39 and don`t realize that ch. 28 gives the detail of where the birth names are and where the tribe names are. Hope that sorts out why the difference.

Mmmmm and we are made like Christ to be on His very own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21) Kings and priests. Those on earth will never be given such authority.

Hi IS, Good topic. To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are three hundred & thirty references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons, & buildings of the Old Testament. This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centered on one purpose and that is to reveal Christ to us in all His Glory. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne." -Revelation 4:3 The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8) Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer. (The Concise English Dictionary) Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe. The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion. The Emerald gem stone is also on the High Priest`s breastplate, and was for the tribe of Reuben. He was the first born of Jacob, and his heir. To the heir would be given three portions - the birthright, (double blessing), the priesthood and the kingdom. The `One` on the throne then is the High Priest of Heaven, the conqueror, the Sovereign Ruler and Heir of all the Father`s estates.

Hi Ad Hoc, `Joyful in hope, patient in affliction, steadfast in prayer.` (Rom. 12: 12) I certainly am NOT looking for the millennial kingdom where there is still sin, pain, suffering etc.

Thank you VA. And you are always a gentleman, so gracious and kind. An example to all.

Hi Dennis, Good thoughts there. Yes, the Greek has four meanings for the word love whereas we use is so loosely for anything. Good point. Good that we agree that the Lord is impartial. So, the matter of those who come close to the Lord. People choose how close they are to the Lord, and we know some in God`s word are shown to be `after His heart, laying on His breast.` They chose the better part. However, God still loves all His children the same, but those who come close to the Lord are able to receive more from Him, - His character, His thoughts, His authority etc. He is able to trust them with His heart.

Hi VA, So glad we agree that the Lord is pre-eminent. So let us rephrase this - `And without us, He has no children.` I believe it glorifies the Lord this way - `And without the Lord we are not sons of God.` Then again this part `without us He has no children.` We need to remember the Old Testament saints, the nation of Israel which the Lord will restore. and those of the nations throughout the centuries and the great multitude that no one can count, plus those of the nations in the millennium that turn to God. Quite a number there.

Hi VA, Yes, God shed His precious blood to purchase - those who would be in the body of Christ, and also for Israel and the nations. God is NOT partial. He does not have favorites. We are not the center of God`s purposes, Jesus is. And His shed blood is the MEANS to God`s purposes - that His Son be pre-eminent over the Body of Christ, Israel and the nations. Let us lift our vision higher, (than us).

Hi Dennis, I would suggest that because God is Love then He does love angels. `Love` in the proper way is the giving of yourself and that is what God does to all who will receive of Him. May I also ask you to think again concerning our wonderful inheritance in Christ - rulership in the third heaven. That is the place of the Lord`s pre-eminence overall of God`s great kingdom, (all He created - visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth. Col. 1: 16). And the Body of Christ will sit with Him on His own throne. (Rev. 3: 21) All other thrones in other realms are under that.

Now if we wrote `Who is pre-eminent? Then we would say the glorified Lord Jesus Christ. `All things were created through Him and for Him, and He is before all things and in Him all things consist and He is the Head of the Body the church, who is from the beginning the first-born (manifest) from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.`(Col. 1: 16 - 18) To accomplish this Christ had to be manifest as a human, live, die, rise again and ascend to the Father. At the appointed time He will gather His Body and take them to His own throne in the third heaven where He will be visibly crowned sovereign over all God`s great kingdom. He will be pre-eminent over all things. The cross and Jesus shedding His precious blood is the means by which all things will come under the Lord`s rule. Every realm has authority positions created there by the Lord, (Col. 1: 16) and He is bringing every authority, power and rule to come under Him. Visible rulership must start from the top (third heaven) and subdue all other authorities. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25) God`s purpose is - `in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ both of which are in heaven and which are on earth - Him.`(Eph. 1: 10) Every realm will have righteous rulership through Christ, with those the Lord has appointed - The Body of Christ - the third heaven. The Old Testament Saints - the Universe. The Nations - the earth. When we just focus on our group (body of Christ) then we tend to read all scriptures for us. However, as we see from God`s word He has great purposes then just us. Thus, when we understand that then scripture becomes clear, directly all to the pre-eminence of Christ and His righteous rulership overall.

Hi VA, `What is the most important thing in God`s creation.` (Your quote) `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.`(Col. 1: 16) So, we see that God`s creation involves more than just this ole earth. First of all, it involves all positions of power and authority. And all those will come under the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, we realize that as God`s program unfolds throughout the centuries that the most important thing in God`s creation is the restoring of those positions of power and authority. God calls different groups - Israel and the nations and the Body of Christ to take responsibilities in those positions.

Hi VA, That is actually Israel. The Body had not even come into existence then.

Hi Patticats, Oh, that would have been great to hear such music back in the `80`s, A lot of great music from that era.

I know all about that Dennis. Funny ay. As to the Global Religion `the MOTHER of prostitutes,` who is that? It can`t be the RCC as its reach is not far enough. It is only one of the prostitutes. Also, as we know that the global religion gets wiped out, we really should be thinking about the other responsibility the False Prophet has -the economy. (Rev. 13:16 & 17 and Rev. 18)

`AND` depending on the context and also all of God`s word. Now the Old Testament saints did not have faith in Christ for they did not know of Him. They `believed God for a city.` `But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16) We are the New Man while Israel is the bride. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6 Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

Hi FOJonathan, God`s promises to Israel will be fulfilled through Jesus. (Big difference there.) Israel is called out of the nations. The Church is called out of Israel and the nations. (Ekklesia - called out ones) `And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them AND upon the Israel of God.` (Gal. 6: 16) (detail AND) Yes there is one body of Christ includes Jews and Gentiles but then they are not those ethnic anymore but the NEW MAN. Yes, the present state of Israel is not Godly but mostly secular. However, as God`s word says it is His ZEAL that will change them, by His Holy Spirit. (Isa. 9: 7 Zech. 12: 10) God has purposes for the Church, Israel and the nations. That is why He made them. Not for an `oops,` but for His purposes.

Hi Dennis, As always you give good background for your view. Now a couple of points you may want to consider. 1. The False prophet does not get done away with till the Lord does it. (Rev. 19: 20) 2. The Pope and Chrislam is just part of the global religion. Yes the RCC has done terrible things however, Islam is doing that now. The prostitute is over ALL the world`s religions. So, I see the Pope getting many groups connected but he is not over the world`s religion or the economic aspect of the global government.

Hi Dennis, So....what happens when the 10 kings get rid of the whore, as you say RCC? `And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the prostitute, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. ` (Rev. 17: 16)