disciplehelovestoo

Is it a sin to have money, or a lot of money? Does 18:22 give us an absolute commandment--if we have any money or property at all, are we required to give it all away? Or was Jesus just speaking to this one individual? I was taught that being rich isn't a sin, but being stingy and hoarding wealth is, and that if you can afford to give charitably more than the 10% tithe, you should. Is that an accurate interpretation of these verses? the essence of sin for a reborn believer is to attempt to apply the multitude of God's laws in a given situation according to one's own limited knowledge, understanding and reason rather than being led by God... no scripture stands alone, but must be interpreted in such a way that preserves the whole of scripture as Truth: 2Co 9:7-11 KJV (7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. (8) And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (9) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. (10) Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) (11) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. if you tithe so that God will protect you, then your giving is of necessity...it's all about the reason for giving, not the amount Jesus was indeed speaking to this one individual, but since He was God in the flesh, everything He said was scripture - and no scripture is of private interpretation... notice that 'they that have riches' are the ones who will have trouble entering the Kingdom of Heaven; not 'they that steward riches' if every Christian were to give away all that they have, the devil and his bunch would end up with everything in this world - why should the devil and his bunch control the wealth of the world?

Act 16:6-10 KJV (6) Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, (7) After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. (8) And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. (9) And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. (10) And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. because God wanted them to go to Macedonia at that time - this is not to say that the people of Asia were never to hear the gospel

Mar 1:14-15 KJV (14) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, (15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. the repentance Jesus preached was not 'stop that sinning'; but to believe the gospel Act 20:24 KJV (24) But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 1Jn 2:1-3 KJV (1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. the gospel is that sinful thoughts and actions have been paid for, and that we are to approach God based in faith in His grace regardless of our performance. this is what John the Baptist meant for the people of Israel to repent of - believing that they could justify themselves before God based on their own righteousness through the law of Moses - this was the trap that the people of Israel had fallen into at that time; believing that ritual sacrifices could justify them before God. Act 11:16 KJV (16) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 'but' is a special word; it means that while what precedes the word 'but' is factual, the Truth that follows the word 'but' renders ineffective those facts that preceded the word 'but'. Act 13:21-24 KJV (21) And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. (22) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. (23) Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: (24) When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. Rom 8:12-14 KJV (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. John's water baptism was for the people of Israel, not the whole world - it was the final ritual to end (cause repentance of) ritualistic worship of God, and instead worship God by being led by Him through fellowship with Him. Luk 13:1-9 KJV (1) There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. (2) And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? (3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (4) Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? (5) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (6) He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (7) Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? (8) And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: (9) And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Jesus plainly tells the disciples that excessive sinning did not cause the suffering of the Galileans or those on whom the tower of Siloam fell - but then tells them that if they don't repent, they will likewise perish; so if excessive sin wasn't the cause, what did Jesus intend for them to repent of? being led by their own intellect and understanding, instead of being led by God...

Psalms 112:6 is saying that God will never forget you; not that the world will never forget you. Joh 5:44 KJV (44) How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? the only good we speak is when we yield to God and let Him speak through us; strive to speak so that the world remembers God, and trust Him to remember you in the only way that counts - eternally

in my understanding, Jesus was saying that the time of His first coming was fulfilled; in Revelations the angel announces that the time for repentance has ended, because all who would repent had done so. the repentance Jesus referred to was not to 'stop all that sinning'; but to stop trying to understand how to apply the multitude of God's laws by one's own intellect and instead be led by Him (as He will never lead us to sin). the angel was saying that all who would abandon their own limited wisdom and instead yield to God's leading had now done so.

all false religions have one thing in common - they are focused on self, rather than God, Who is absolutely self-less - True Christianity is self-less, not self-ish. i'm talking about focus, not performance - all false religions are performance-focused, which is actually self-focused. in essence, there is only one false religion - the religion of self-worship; it's just the 'packaging' that makes it appear that there are many false religions.

the reason that this thread is still going is that the focus of the thread is on sin; not God. seek God, and let Him decide what is sin and which sin to help you stop at any given time. and if you are not without sin, drop your rocks and walk away - only the sinless can judge what is sin

as is evident from the variety of answers, scripture isn't clear about who is referred to in these two verses. Rom 8:14 KJV (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. reborn believers who seek to be led by God rather than lean on their own understanding are the sons of God today; the spiritual brothers and sisters of Jesus, the firstborn Son of God. the knowledge of God comes 'line by line, precept by precept'; focus on what is clear in the scripture, and as you do, eventually you will begin to understand what is not clear to you initially

your last question reveals part of the answer to your last question. the Christian life is not a changed life where God picks you up, dusts you off, points you in the right direction, and tells you to 'see if you can get it right this time'; the Christian life is an exchanged life where we seek to die to self and let God live through us. what this means in practice is that you strive to stop making your own decisions and asking God to bless them, and start seeking and following His leading in every situation as much as you can - this will keep you in fellowship with Him all day long - and fellowship with God is the root of all blessings. the purpose of the laws of God are two fold: to drive us to despair of keeping them so that we no longer think we can earn His favor through our performance, and to use to recognize/confirm His situational leading. the laws of God were not given so that we could keep them by our own understanding and strength. if you offend in one point of the law, you are guilty of all according to scripture; no one but Jesus can keep the whole law, because He was 'God with us'. now if you are seeking to be led by God, you will experience persecution. satan will pull out all the stops to defeat you, and he works through other people, just like God does. however, over time, if you are led by God you will increase in all good ways, including prosperity and health. your neighbor that professes to be a Christian and seems to glide through life is either someone who is led by God and has therefore, over time, intersected with the blessings God would lead us all to receive; or someone who is deceived and is destroying their own spiritual life through dead works and adherence to the traditions of men; satan will back off when someone is doing an effective job of destroying themselves (spiritually speaking), and this may make people appear to be outwardly prosperous while inside they are already dead. to answer your first question, when God seems to be part of the problem, repent of this kind of thinking - always stay on God's side

we believe God by faith; having never seen Him. satan was in the very presence of God, and yet chose to reject God; what more could God do to bring about satan's repentance, since satan has rejected the fullness of God after having witnessed this? perhaps this is why the bible is clear that satan will not repent but rather choose destruction. satan is the root cause of all transgression of the law, all evil deeds, and all unbelief. but we have free will, so Judas is responsible for yielding to satan in betraying Jesus. his betrayal was certainly sin; but since Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, forgiveness was available to Judas for his betrayal of Jesus - but Judas did not receive that forgiveness as far as we can tell from the bible.

i appreciate your sharing that Butero; i believe it was from your heart. i had a similar experience with the Lord, where i was in judgment of an activity others frequently indulge in that i didn't, and that i saw as a violation of scripture; a transgression of the law. as a matter of fact, this has happened to me more times than i'd like to admit; so much so that i finally asked God how i would ever reach a point where i could instruct others in what actions are sinful. His answer surprised me; He said 'when you are without sin'. intellectually this was obvious as soon as i heard it; but yet i knew that i was supposed to correct my siblings in Christ as Paul told Timothy; so i finally asked the right question: how will i know when to correct someone Lord, if i myself am not perfect? He said "you won't know, unless I specifically tell you to". sin as in wrong actions has been paid for; sin as in unbelief has not been been paid for, and this is the sin unto death - because if you refuse to believe that Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world, then you can't receive the payment for your own sins. the strength of sin is the law; so to draw someone's attention to a wrong action is to strengthen the lust for that wrong action in them, unless it is the result of God's leading. we simply aren't qualified to judge specific sin (as in wrong actions), as we ourselves are never free from wrong actions (sin) in some area. God has made it clear that lying, stealing, murder, etc. is sin by including these things in the written word; for other things not so clear in the word, we must be led by God. when we elevate our own judgment to be equally capable to judge sin in others as God's judgment is capable to do, we commit the sin of unbelief; therefore we should be careful to judge sin in others, especially when it's something not specifically dealt with in the law. so to ask if smoking is sin is to look to men for judgment instead of to God, it is error. we should ask God for this clarification in each of our lives, and be careful to judge specific sin (as in wrong actions) in others only when we know God is leading us to do so; and not according to our own limited knowledge and understanding of the law.

2Pe 3:9-10 (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. when that day comes, there will be nothing here that we want to hang around for remember that God loves your brother-in-law more than you do! you don't need to plead with God on his behalf, but rather to plead with him on God's behalf - but only as God leads you to

what would Jesus do? Joh 5:19 (19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jesus was led by God; so should we also be led by Him. the issue isn't about what is a transgression of the law and what isn't; the issue is that we aren't smart enough to apply the whole of the law in any given situation - we must be led by Him, and when we are, sin is not an issue - because He will never lead us to sin.

des·ti·ny ˈdestinē/ noun the events that will necessarily happen to a particular person or thing in the future. "she was unable to control her own destiny" the hidden power believed to control what will happen in the future; fate. "he believes in destiny" synonyms: future, fate, fortune, doom; lot; archaicportion "master of his own destiny" fate, providence; predestination; God's will, kismet, the stars; luck, fortune, chance; karma, serendipity "she believed their meeting was destiny" are you asking if people are 'predestined' to be saved or lost?

2Co 3:1-9 (1) Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? (2) Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: (3) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (4) And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. Heb 9:8-28 (8) The Holy Spirit clearly teaches from all these arrangements that the way into the Most Holy Place has not yet been opened as long as the outer tent still stands. (9) This is a symbol which points to the present time. It means that the offerings and animal sacrifices presented to God cannot make the worshiper's heart perfect, (10) since they have to do only with food, drink, and various purification ceremonies. These are all outward rules, which apply only until the time when God will establish the new order. (11) But Christ has already come as the High Priest of the good things that are already here. The tent in which he serves is greater and more perfect; it is not a tent made by human hands, that is, it is not a part of this created world. (12) When Christ went through the tent and entered once and for all into the Most Holy Place, he did not take the blood of goats and bulls to offer as a sacrifice; rather, he took his own blood and obtained eternal salvation for us. (13) The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a burnt calf are sprinkled on the people who are ritually unclean, and this purifies them by taking away their ritual impurity. (14) Since this is true, how much more is accomplished by the blood of Christ! Through the eternal Spirit he offered himself as a perfect sacrifice to God. His blood will purify our consciences from useless rituals, so that we may serve the living God. (15) For this reason Christ is the one who arranges a new covenant, so that those who have been called by God may receive the eternal blessings that God has promised. This can be done because there has been a death which sets people free from the wrongs they did while the first covenant was in effect. (16) In the case of a will it is necessary to prove that the person who made it has died, (17) for a will means nothing while the person who made it is alive; it goes into effect only after his death. (18) That is why even the first covenant went into effect only with the use of blood. (19) First, Moses proclaimed to the people all the commandments as set forth in the Law. Then he took the blood of bulls and goats, mixed it with water, and sprinkled it on the book of the Law and all the people, using a sprig of hyssop and some red wool. (20) He said, "This is the blood which seals the covenant that God has commanded you to obey." (21) In the same way Moses also sprinkled the blood on the Sacred Tent and over all the things used in worship. (22) Indeed, according to the Law almost everything is purified by blood, and sins are forgiven only if blood is poured out. (23) Those things, which are copies of the heavenly originals, had to be purified in that way. But the heavenly things themselves require much better sacrifices. (24) For Christ did not go into a Holy Place made by human hands, which was a copy of the real one. He went into heaven itself, where he now appears on our behalf in the presence of God. (25) The Jewish high priest goes into the Most Holy Place every year with the blood of an animal. But Christ did not go in to offer himself many times, (26) for then he would have had to suffer many times ever since the creation of the world. Instead, now when all ages of time are nearing the end, he has appeared once and for all, to remove sin through the sacrifice of himself. (27) Everyone must die once, and after that be judged by God. (28) In the same manner Christ also was offered in sacrifice once to take away the sins of many. He will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are waiting for him. the 'old' testament dictated that men live according to a set of rules that governed their actions, or else sacrifice the lives of animals as a 'representative' payment for their errors ('sins'). the 'new' testament dictates that we live according to the leading of the Holy Spirit (Who never leads contrary to the correct application of the intent of the multitude of laws in the Old Testament), or else claim Jesus' complete sacrifice for our errors ('sins'). Gal 3:19-27 (19) What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added in order to show what wrongdoing is, and it was meant to last until the coming of Abraham's descendant, to whom the promise was made. The Law was handed down by angels, with a man acting as a go-between. (20) But a go-between is not needed when only one person is involved; and God is one. (21) Does this mean that the Law is against God's promises? No, not at all! For if human beings had received a law that could bring life, then everyone could be put right with God by obeying it. (22) But the scripture says that the whole world is under the power of sin; and so the gift which is promised on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ is given to those who believe. (23) But before the time for faith came, the Law kept us all locked up as prisoners until this coming faith should be revealed. (24) And so the Law was in charge of us until Christ came, in order that we might then be put right with God through faith. (25) Now that the time for faith is here, the Law is no longer in charge of us. (26) It is through faith that all of you are God's children in union with Christ Jesus. (27) You were baptized into union with Christ, and now you are clothed, so to speak, with the life of Christ himself. the purpose of the OT law was effectively to prove to people that they couldn't earn God's favor through their outward performance, in order to drive them to seek God's mercy and undeserved favor (grace) instead. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us, so that we can focus on God's goodness instead of our own performance; only the Holy Spirit of God can apply the OT laws correctly in each situation we face; we aren't smart enough to apply the multitude of God's laws correctly in any given situation. it's all about being led by God through fellowship with Him - to know Him.

isn't your observation about andrew womack's teaching in your OP also a distraction from your question about scripture? if we focus on scripture, do we need to bring specific people's teaching into the discussion? did you need to mention him in your OP, or had you already judged him and were looking for a round-about way to find people who would also judge him with you? can you name ANY preacher who teaches everything perfectly? i didn't say that andrew womack healed anyone; i asked how many people the 'scripture police' have seen healed in their ministries. yes; let's get back on track by focusing on scripture instead of people not present to defend themselves. did my initial answer help you to understand that faith is not the variable, but unbelief is?

the thread went off course when someone used it as an excuse to condemn a brother in Christ who has helped millions of people - yes millions. to those of you who feel you can judge andrew womack to be in gross error - how many people have you seen healed in your ministries? how many people have you helped find their way to the Lord? how many countries do your teaching broadcasts reach? how many bible colleges have you established? how many abortion-alternative clinics have you set up? i could go on, but either you get my point or you won't no, we're not going to distract from the OP, unless it is to criticize someone not present that we don't agree with, right?

you could say this about ANY preacher/teacher aside from Jesus. yes, by all means do the research - because our ministry isn't one of criticism, but one of reconciliation - the focus should be what God has said, not what His preachers say that we don't understand or agree with; we shouldn't help the devil accuse our brothers and sisters in Christ. andrew's goal is to get people to study God's word, and it is obviously working. how well would your total understanding of God stand up to world-wide scrutiny? how many would condemn you for the things they don't agree with? you'de be wise to be careful to only apply standards to others that you can meet yourself

Why does Jesus say if you have grain like a mustard seed as pertains to faith then? I do not agree, as so many WOF adherents do, that we are to blame if God does not heal or whatever. I do believe there are hindrances to prayer, bit I have prayed with almost no hope or faith and yet God still answered. If we are going to interpret this and other passages, with the onus on OUR faith, then is God looking for bigger faith and those with less faith get passed over? I think there are many problems with that interpretation I do see where you say the subject of 21 is unbelief...but is Jesus talking about a measure of faith or some demons requiring a different approach? (I'm not demon chasing or anything....I am just looking at the interpretation...there are other things I have read that Wommack teaches that are equally or even more ... well...certainly not any interpretation I've come across before) At any rate, I cannot really see where there is a separation between faith and belief or unbelief as if you have faith, then you believe, right? But if you don't have ENOUGH faith, then are we actually looking at a measure of faith and as God is not a respecter of persons, as you correctly say, then would He not hear from anyone with any faith? So, are you saying that you agree with what is taught by Wommack....Jesus is saying we should pray and fast to cast out unbelief? If you are casting out unbelief, then it sounds like you are actually casting out a demon as many people will give evil spirits names such as unbelief, or migraine or whatever....(again, I'm not agreeing with that teaching either... just questionning the interpretation) please ask about specific scripture with reference(s); i can't tell what scripture you're asking about in your first question. our very salvation is based on faith - believing God's word above every other report - why would healing be different? i don't know why you're asking me about 'bigger faith' since i clearly said that all have the same amount based on Rom 12:3 - God's faith - the ability to believe in a virgin birth, resurrection from the dead, healing, prosperity, etc. is a gift from God; His faith is never the variable because He is not variable. hen came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? (20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief the disciples asked why they couldn't cast out this demon, and Jesus plainly told them 'because of your unbelief'; not 'because of your little faith', or 'because this demon is different from other demons'. God's faith comes from His Spirit to our soul (mind, will and emotions) and is based exclusively on His revealed written word; carnal faith comes from our intelligence and is based on experience and what we perceive with the 5 senses. Mar 9:22-25 (22) And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. (23) Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. (24) And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. (25) When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. the father obviously had doubts (unbelief) in his mind, yet also believed with his heart - and Jesus told him 'If thou canst believe', clearly putting the responsibility to believe on the father - and we see that his son was set free from the demon, indicating that the father's 'heart' faith was effective even when there were doubts in his 'head' faith. where is there any reference to the amount of faith being the deciding factor in scripture? please look closely at any examples you think you find before you answer. Healing is just like salvation: God isn't saving anyone today; God has already made salvation available to everyone - people receive salvation by placing faith in what He has already accomplished through Jesus at the cross. God isn't healing anyone today; God has already made healing available to everyone - people receive healing by placing faith in what He has already accomplished through Jesus at the whipping post. i have listened to almost all of andrew womack's teachings and been a partner of his for years, and i don't know of him ever teaching that a lack of faith is why some people don't receive from God. i have seen many many people receive miracles by placing faith in what God has already made available at the whipping post through Jesus as a result of studying what Andrew teaches about what the scriptures say about healing. this is not to say that everything he teaches is absolute Truth - he is not Jesus any more than either of us are. when i read what i posted, i don't see how you got the idea that we are to cast out unbelief as we do demons; we are to renew our minds with God's word, and as we gain revelation knowledge of His word through fellowship with Him, our unbelief is reduced by renewing the mind. however, fasting helps us to control our flesh rather than be dominated by it, so that when we see a powerful manifestation of demonic influence such as when the boy rolled around, foamed at the mouth, threw himself in the fire, etc.; we will be better able to reject what our eyes and ears tell us in preference to what God's word says. you don't have to take my word for it, you can listen to his "God wants you well" teaching series for free download from his website (no cost means no excuse )

Mat 17:19-21 (19) Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? (20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (21) Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. the subject in verse 21 is unbelief not casting out devils - and this kind of unbelief comes out only by prayer and fasting. prayer connects with God; fasting gives us control over the input of our senses. faith casts out devils, but faith is hindered by unbelief. unbelief takes three general forms for the reborn in Christ: ignorance of the Word, wrong teaching, and natural 5 sense input. the disciples had likely seen the same powerful demonstration of demonic influence that Jesus saw in Mark 9:20, yet He was unmoved by this demonstration, whereas they were. Andrew Womack rightly teaches that we all have THE measure of faith (Rom 12:3); faith is the gift of God, and He is no respector of persons - faith is never the variable - unbelief or doubt hinders or binds faith; unbelief is under our control, and is made ineffective by hearing the Word of God with understanding through fellowship with God (Rom 10:14-17).

2Pe 1:1-4 (1) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: (2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: (4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. this scripture confused me for years; i could look around and see that i did not have 'all things that pertain to life and godliness'; i suffered lack, fought against sickness, struggled with depression, etc. then one day as i cried out to God for understanding, He reminded me of these scriptures: Jer 10:23 (23) O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. Psa 37:23 (23) The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Joh 10:27-28 (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. i received spiritual rebirth when i was very young, and had tried to live an outwardly holy life, but found that the harder i tried, the more frequently i failed. i had always gone to God with the big decisions, yet was never sure what He was saying to me; i craved a '5 sense' response from Him: an audible voice, the appearance of an angel, a message written on my wall - but none seemed to come that i could recognize - i just couldn't hear from God as far as i knew from all reports except His revealed written word. one day as i read my Bible, John 10:27 jumped out at me - i knew this must be true because the Master said it, yet my experience argued otherwise; i was one of His sheep, but did not believe i could hear from Him based solely on John 10:27; i was looking for external confirmation, and doubting that i could hear from Him until that conformation came. i began to realize that i had heard voices, i had seen angels, and had seen messages on walls from Him - after i had made my own decisions - but even those things could be doubted - but what i had not done is to simply believe that as one of His sheep, i did hear His voice - and followed it. His voice was in His word; not in an audible voice spoken to me by some preacher (although He does speak through preachers, they are fallible like me and i must have the confirmation of revealed scripture to recognize when He speaks to me through a preacher), or in the vision of an angel that could easily be the devil appearing that way as it could be an angel from God, or on messages written in graffiti on walls. the subtle difference is difficult for me to clearly say in words. i also saw that 'steps' were the focus of Jer 10:23 and Psa 37:23. yes, i sought God on the big decisions that i had no clue about, but i had not sought His leading on the 'little' steps - the individual decisions i made each day; i walked by my own sight according to my own understanding until i hit a situation that i couldn't figure out in my head, and THEN sought His leading; by this time i was so focused on the situation that i couldn't perceive His leading even if He wrote it in the sky with clouds. i saw that in order to hear Him about the big decisions that are always accompanied by potentially big consequences, that i would have to practice hearing from Him on the little things that seemingly had small consequences - things like how much toothpaste to put on my toothbrush, whether to go to work on the main road or take a side road, whether i should eat desert after a given meal or not, etc. so i started practicing this, and found it to be VERY difficult. but the more i did practice it, the more i began to realize that God would bring scriptures to my mind to confirm His leading; His revealed written word was the only sure confirmation that i had heard Him. if i had not begun to strive to hear from Him in every decision while looking for the remembrance of scripture as confirmation that i had heard from Him (rather than use His word as a set of rules to follow according to my own understanding), i would have never learned how to perceive this method of confirming His leading. it also occurred to me that since he had already given me all things that pertain to life and godliness, that the reason i had not received all of that was because i was for the most part ordering my own steps each day - i had failed to intersect with the blessings He had already placed in my future because i was 'walking around them' by not seeking His leading as a way of life, in every thing i do. again, i am a long long way from remembering to seek His leading in the little decisions, but i have left where i once was, and have intersected with a number of major blessings that He gave me before the foundations of the world were laid. i have never waited on God in that He needed to do something more to bless me, He had been waiting on me to seek His leading about each STEP in faith so that i would intersect with 'all things that pertain to life and godliness' that He had already placed into my future. i realized that waiting on the Lord was nothing like waiting in line at the grocery store where i was idle, but was like a waiter waits on customers in a restaurant. waiting on the Lord means to strive to attend to Him, be focused on Him, be led by Him in all things. and as i practiced this, the audible voices, appearances of angels, writing on walls - these things became more clearly recognizable as to whether they were from God or from my enemy.

i think this is a great post! it's for the most part what i've been driving toward all along: - that smoking is something each christian must seek God about, as it is not clearly addressed in scripture (as is adultery for example) - that scripture is the ONLY standard we can trust; experience varies from person to person, and the doctrines each of us believe are based at least in part on the doctrines each person has been exposed to in their individual walk - but scripture does not change, and is absolutely complete - it is our understanding of scripture that is lacking - yours, mine, and everyone else's - none if us has the complete revelation of God's word - there are no absolute authorities in flesh bodies on the exact meaning of scripture as a whole. i would say that we're both right - you are right in that, in your thinking, smoking is wrong based on you're understanding of scripture; i am right in that since for me it isn't clear in scripture (as adultery is for example), that each person must seek God about this. i'm glad we didn't get offended and give up on each other! Pro 27:17 (17) People learn from one another, just as iron sharpens iron.

I have not taken anything out of context. I have always noted the context and the behavioral paradigm those Scriptures addreses. If I had used those verses to directly address smoking, then yes they would have been taken out of context, but that is not what I did. What I have shown is that you wrong apply smoking to verses that are referring to ritual traditions and if anyone is taking anything out of context you are. You violate context by applying smoking to a dissimilar issue. You ignore most of the Scripture provided to you and then pretend nothing was ever offered. Obviously are a bit challenged when it comes to understanding the nature of literary context. And it really doesn't matter to me if you respond to me or not. I will still respond to your posts to keep people from being misled by your unscriptural statements in this thread. you may as well get used to this response: i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you. you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

Jesus was actually very tough on sin. Jesus didn't just condemn the sins of the self-righteous. He told the sinners to go and sin no more. He didn't cut them any slack, either. God commands to flee from all sin. He doesn't pick out just one two. Light that shines in our hearts to reveal sin is a floodlight not a penlight. We are called to expose sin. Read Ephesians 5. We are called to expose the deeds of darkness. We are called to call sin what it is. We are not judging others, but we are exposing what is or is not sin. No, He wouldn't. You can't compare a ritual tradition with a self-destructive habit that detracts from God's glory. Your comparison is invalid. Smoking isn't a religious tradition or ritual. So it is not analogous to hand washing. That is false. You have been provided Scripture and your consistent misuse and mishandling of Scripture has correctted and refuted many times over. You have been provided Scriptures many times and you ignore them. Asking for what has already been provided, and ignored and then returning to thread as if nothing has been provided is a dishonest tactic. Ephesians 5 says absolutely nothing about smoking. plucking verses out of context may help you justify your beliefs, and may in your mind give you the right to call me dishonest, but it does not move me at all. you are not God; you are no authority that i need yield to - no matter how condescending and insulting you try to be. in spite of that, i forgive you anyway. You have been provided plenty of Scriptures and to deny such IS dishonest. I have not said anything I need to be forgiven for. I am simply expressing a level honesty about your tactics that you can't seem to face up to. As for Eph. 5, I didn't say that Eph. 5 said anything about smoking. I said that Eph 5 tells us that we are to expose the works of darkness. That was in response to your erroneous claim that we aren't supposed to tell people about their sin. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. (Eph 5:11-13) i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you. you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

Last time I'm doing this. I will stop posting because you ignore any verse that don't fit your opinion. But, you are right, there are some silently watching who should see the truth no matter what. 1 Cor. 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple. 1. does smoking cause cancer? Does cancer destroy the body? What does the above verse say about what will happen to those who willfully destroy the body like smoking does? 1 Corinthians 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 2. Does smoking glorify God? Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. 3. If our bodies are temples and to be presented as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, Does smoking, which destroys the body accomplish this? Does smoking glorify God in our Bodies? 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law. 4. Sin is the transgression of Gods word. If smoking destroys the body it transgress God's word, and that is sin! Does Smoking Glorify God in our Bodies, Helping us present our bodies as a living Sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God? If not it is transgressing God's word and that is sin! The bible is very specific about how we are to present ourselves and our bodies to God. Smoking violates those verses and teachings, which makes it sin! Lastly, I never said remission of sins was why Jesus came, I said Remission or forgiveness of sin was the gospel message that we are commanded to tell everyone in word and deed, and to do that you must be able to tell people what a sin is. I don't know where this thought that if you say something is a sin, then you have to be judging came from. But it is not true. I am done. I have heard your argument and now I have post verses one last time to back up mine. I will pray for you. I am done with this thread. I said it, I mean it. God bless Firestormx Joseph first, let me say THANK YOU!!! for offering scripture to support your views!!! 1. i've already shown that 1Cor 3:16, 17 taken in context is referring to diversity of doctrines as it relates to spiritual defilement; show me from scripture (not science, experience, opinion, or any other source) where this verse is speaking of physical defilement. does smoking cause cancer? many people who smoke do get cancer - but not all - my grandaddy smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day ever since they started making cigarettes - over 50 years - and died of natural causes at 89, not cancer. this is carnal thinking; science has linked the two, not scripture - the same science that once linked the sun's track across the sky to the mistaken assumption that the earth was stationary at the center of the universe. here's something to chew on: what kills prematurely is not believing that you have divine health by the stripes of Jesus; cancer is a mechanism of unbelief, not the cause of death; many people have received their healing from cancer - it's unbelief that kills. 2. 1Cor 10:31 the context here is SPIRITUAL defilement - idol worship - worshiping false Gods - not physical defilement. show me from scripture (not science, experience, opinion, or any other source) where this verse is speaking of physical defilement. does driving in a car glorify God in every case? what about using a cell phone? are these things always used to God's glory, or is it what's in the heart of those who use them that makes these actions glorify God? Romans 12:1 has a key word - "THEREFORE" - linking it to chapter 11 - the context of chapter 11 is spiritual defilement - not physical. 1Cor 6:19-20 the context here is fornication - but Paul does list a number of 'sins'in verses 9 and 10 - where is smoking in the list? 3. you have yet to establish that there is ANYTHING in the scripture about physical habits defiling the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit, nor that smoking is established as a transgression of the law; as the law does not mention smoking. 4. this is a conclusion you have reached, but there is NOTHING in the scripture (the law) about smoking! why didn't you quote these scriptures in context? is it because you know that that by doing so it will be obvious to all that they are NOT speaking of physical habits?