Last Daze

It's almost bot-like, the efficiency with which you sniff out posts on the millennium and paste your objection.

"Conspiracy theories" are often much more reliable than the mainstream narrative, especially when it comes to major disinformation campaigns like we saw with COVID. It's usually just a matter of time before conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact.

I think it's imperative to understand who the beast is and what his purpose is in order to have any realistic ideas as to what his image might be. After all, an image is a reflection or likeness of the original. If you understand the original, you understand the image. Without going into a lot of detail (which I could), the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is an evil spirit being whose purpose it is to set the world stage for the man of sin to exercise dominion. An image of him will reflect that dominion. That's why I think the image is more likely a code of conduct that acknowledges the man of sin's dominion. Such a thing would be a likeness of the beast. And he deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Rev 13:14-15 The people of the world collaborate on it (make it). The man of sin enacts it as law (gives it life). Those who don't comply are proactively identified (the image speaks) and those who don't obey its mandates (worship it) are killed. I can see AI playing a role in actively identifying those who reject the image. The key element of the image, though, is the man of sin's dominion over the earth. That's what makes it an image of the beast. You think mask and vax mandates were authoritarian . . . the mandate of the image is authoritarian extreme. Good topic and relevant to the times.

Agreed. The 7th trumpet is analogous to the last lap around Jericho on the seventh day. The first six seals are like the first six days of marching around Jericho. The seventh seal, containing the seven trumpets, is like the last day of marching around Jericho. Thought that was an interesting parallel. There are seven, and the seventh contains seven.

You are correct. The wicked dead are not in Christ. However, Christ has the power over death, both righteous and wicked. He will raise both the righteous and the wicked to immortality. For since by a man death came, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 That's really all I have to say about it. Thanks.

In the use of the word "all ". Paul is giving a sequence of the resurrection of all.

That doesn't seem to line up with what Paul said the resurrection sequence would be in 1 Corinthians 15. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. Christ Those who are Christ's Everyone else at the end.

What about the saints that live during the millennial kingdom?

I think first we need to establish what's meant by "this age". Why to you think that the end of "this age" comes before the millennium instead of after?

As I've said before, "cometh" was inserted by the translators. Check it out for yourself. It could have easily been rendered "at" which would read "then at the end" which makes a ton more sense since Paul is giving an order of resurrection. The sequence is Christ, those who are Christ's at His coming, then the end. Saying there is no millennial kingdom ignores specific events that are said to take place prior to, during and after it. If what was meant by 1000 years was "a long time" then its up to you to explain when those specific events took place. When did the following happen: Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Do you believe there will be a future mark and image? The list goes on and on and on. It all has to fit. I think you place too much emphasis on "then cometh the end". Think about it. According to your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:23-24 there's no time when the wicked dead are raised. If "then the end" means then comes the end as you say, there's no mention of the wicked being raised and there's no sequence being established by Paul. If "then the end" means then at the end, then there's a resurrection of the rest of everyone at the end, the end of the millennium, and a sequence is established. If everyone gets raised at the return of Christ, there's no sequence. Paul is establishing a sequence.

But Rev 11:15 states that the seventh angel sounded. For me, it comes down to who has resurrection authority? My view is that when the seventh angel sounds, the day of the Lord begins. Jesus leaves heaven and sounds the trump of God and continues to destroy Satan's kingdom and remove the wicked from the earth. The meek will inherit the earth and the millennial kingdom of Christ begins. So I agree that the last trump is sounded at the seventh trumpet. However, I don't see the last trump as being the seventh.

Good points to ponder. I'll leave you with this: Then the Lord will appear over them, And His arrow will go forth like lightning; And the Lord God will blow the trumpet, And march in the storm winds of the south. Zechariah 9:14 Thanks for the chat.

Hey Gary. I think we're pretty much in agreement on how we see the trumpets. This is a minor point but if the trump of God is His voice of resurrection authority then the implication is that it will sound at the last resurrection as well. Although it may not be explicitly stated, the concept is established. Until the last enemies death and hades are destroyed, His authoritative voice is required. They won't give up their dead willingly. As I see it. Blessings to you my friend.

Hello. I see it the same way. Everyone puts on immortality, the righteous and the wicked. Those who are Christ's will be raised immortal at His return at the 7th trumpet. Everyone else is raised immortal after the millennial kingdom.

Is there a reason why in some posts I can change the font / color of the text and others I can't? It seems to be a random function within the Worthy editor. Is there a setting somewhere? Some hidden right-click functionality?

Thanks for bearing with me, Gary. I realize that I've not communicated my position very clearly. Sometimes I assume that others are working from my frame of reference. I'm coming from a post-trib viewpoint and see two more resurrections yet to take place. The first is at the return of Christ and the second is after the millennial reign. In both cases, there will be dead who will hear His voice and put on immortality. If His voice of resurrection authority is the last trump, then it will sound two more times according to how I see it. Some like @truth7t7 would say that it will sound only once. Some pre-tribbers that see 3 or more resurrections would need the last trumpet to sound for each one. That's why I see "the last trumpet" as referring more to a kind of trumpet than one final singular sound. As for the section I quoted, there were seven angels who were given trumpets. I understand that to mean that they were given authority to commence the seven plagues. I also see their trumpet sound as speaking authoritatively in what they have been given. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thess 4:16 So when I read this verse from 1 Thess, I see an angel shouting (trumpet) which is followed by the Lord descending with the trump of God, his voice of resurrection authority. That archangel that shouted I see as the 7th trumpet sounding. Thanks.

I've noticed that in some posts I have the ability to change font and color and others I don't. Not sure what the difference is but I've never had random formatting happen.

I just saw this post of yours which helps me understand a little better: My short answer is that 1, and 3 do. 2 Might be the same as 1 and 3. 4 Doesn't And Zecheriah 9:14 is the same trumpet as 1 and 3

If I understand correctly, you are making the assumption that the last trump is only sounded once? Maybe the last trumpet signifies a "type" of trumpet that's sounded more than once. It can still be considered the last trumpet because of its contrast with the first. The good thing is that God knows and will accomplish His purpose. We see through a glass dimly.

Thanks Gary. I understand the argument for the 7th trumpet being the last trumpet. All there really needs to be for there to be a last trumpet is a first trumpet. I've posted this before so I'll just summarize: Trump of God = His voice of authority First Trump of God = His authority over the nation Israel in giving them the law at Sinai. Last Trump of God = His resurrection authority. I agree that the last trumpet sounds at the seventh trumpet but they are not the same trumpet. The seventh trumpet sounds and Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds the trump of God . . . as I understand it.

Agree. It will all work out as God has planned.

I understand the rationale. I've looked at it a few different ways as well. The seven angels are given trumpets. The trump of God is unique to God. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thess 4:16 This is a picture of the seventh angel sounding his trumpet (shout), the Lord descending to the clouds with the trumpet of God. So while the last trumpet sounds at the seventh trumpet, it's not the seventh trumpet. For me, the connection between a resurrection resulting from hearing His voice and a resurrection at the last trump is too strong to ignore. That makes the last trumpet the voice of His resurrection authority. What makes it the "last" trumpet is that after every mortal has been resurrected and the last enemy, death, is thrown into the lake of fire, rebellion is no more. There is no more need to speak authoritatively as God's authority is a foregone conclusion in the new heaven and new earth where righteousness dwells.

In a previous post, I showed scripture to support the idea that the trump of God is His voice speaking authoritatively. The first trump of God was at Mount Sinai demonstrating His authority over Israel in giving them the law. Exodus 19-20 When the angel sounds the seventh trumpet, Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds the last trumpet of God. The last trumpet is God's resurrection authority over the human race.

I agree. The key I believe is in equating a trumpet sound with someone speaking authoritatively. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet. Rev 1:10 And we know that there is a resurrection when God sounds a trumpet. Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come out: John 5:28-29a God sounds His trumpet (speaks authoritatively) and there is a resurrection. Based on that, I believe that the seventh angel sounds his trumpet and Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds His trumpet. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thess 4:16 The voice (trumpet) of the archangel (seventh trumpet) sounds and Jesus descends and sounds His trumpet, the voice of His resurrection authority. Those who are asleep in Christ hear His voice and come out of the tombs.

When it says "came into the daughters of men" couldn't that mean that the pregnant women were possessed by them? And they genetically altered the DNA of the offspring? It's my view that angels can not create anything but can manipulate the existing natural realm. They may be able to take on the appearance of human form but I doubt that form could be a biologically functioning human. If angels can transform in to fully functioning human bodies, why not transform into women as well? I think the answer lies in Satan's plan to irreversibly corrupt the seed of the woman in an effort to prevent the Messiah. That's why they targeted women. Not really adamant about the above. It just seems to make more sense then angels whimsically deciding to have sex with humans. Satan's focus was to derail God's plan and all he knew at that time was that his battle would be against the seed of the woman. Later, as more information was revealed, we see a series of kingdoms subjugating Israel what would be pictured as the seven heads of Satan.