Last Daze

The point I was trying to make is that we won't be constrained by time and space as we are now, not that we couldn't interact with it.

As finite beings we are limited in our understanding of the eternal but we have these glimpses to ponder. Concerning time: But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 2 Peter 3:8 Concerning time and space: So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “ Peace be with you.” John 20:19 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” John 20:26 It's not unreasonable to think that when we put on eternal immortality (at the resurrection / change / rapture) that we too will be outside the flow of time and not restricted by time to a specific location. I think the examples of Jesus, in His resurrected body, appearing to the disciples when the doors were shut and locked reflect that. I'm not going to argue the point but to say that it has NO basis in scripture isn't true.

The technology may be here, but the mark of the beast (false prophet) is specific to him.

I've made a YouTube video based on the pamphlet, in the off-chance anyone's interested. I know its not as enthralling as "pin the tail in the Antichrist" but . . .

I personally don't see any of the horse-riders of the first four seals as being humans. I think Obama is a puppet, like most politicians, who are there to service of the agenda of the 10 horns.

I agree with that but for different reasons.

Conquering outside of open warfare is conquering through deception. The rider of the horse I see as the beast from the abyss with ten horns. I think the first seal has been opened and they have been conquering for decades now, all in support of the rise of the man of sin, their ultimate objective. Does Obama play a role in all of that? Possibly, but personally, I doubt it. The progression as I see it is: the feet of iron and clay (U.N.) which is manipulated by the 10 horns the ten leaders (briefly - one hour) the man of sin The ten leaders kick off seal 2 which results in seal 3. The man of sin brings an end to the wars, the fourth seal. The fifth seal is the great tribulation, the sixth is the end of the great tribulation, the seventh brings God's wrath.

Once we're with Him in the clouds, we will be immortal. Time and space will be of no consequence. We can have a wedding feast and carry on for the longest "time" and those on earth will be oblivious to that. It would appear to them as the Lord's return happened as quickly as His ascension. "This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” Acts 1:11b

I agree. We may be in the world but we don't have to love the things of the world. A very relevant warning as the end time events will have us demonstrate who we love. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24

It depends on how you identify the "thing which are". The opening of seals takes place after the things which are. Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. Revelation 1:19 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Revelation 4:1 The "things which are" are consequently in chapters 2 & 3. So is "after these things" a reference to those seven specific churches receiving their respective message? If so, then the opening of the seals could have started in the first century. Or, is the "things which are" a reference to the global spread of the gospel; the gospel being preached to all the nations? I tend to think its the latter and that that qualification of the global spread of the gospel has been met according to God's measure. I also think the first seal, deception, has been opened. The first seal is deception because the rider goes forth conquering and to conquer in a covert manner. This is also in keeping with the signs Jesus gave in Matthew 24. As I see it, the signs Jesus gave us to watch for are: Deception - 1st seal Wars, famine - 2nd, 3rd, 4th seals The great tribulation - 5th seal The sign of the Son of Man - 6th seal The return of the Son of Man - 7th seal, 7th trumpet

Hey RT! Good to see you again. Most pretribbers I've come across won't even consider the possibility of being wrong. I'm not sure why. Its almost as if they think they have a choice in the matter. What do you see as the first indication of such?

"She" is the doctrine of demons that influences mankind to live ungodly and rebellious lives. She will be cast down at the return of Jesus. Babylon can also refer to a city that epitomizes such doctrine.

Maybe you will. Maybe you won't. That part is irrelevant. To bring it full circle: Jesus tells everyone to be ready and alert for His return He tells us the signs of His return so we'll have an idea of what to prepare for Those who are wise will act on His words. The foolish will ignore His words, for whatever reason. That's all I was getting at.

I agree, but there is a battle going on between the Spirit and the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. Galatians 5:17

I'm not sure what you were getting at with all that rambling but I want to address the above "All we need to do" statement. Believing in Him is a lifestyle. What made the wise virgins wise, and the foolish ones foolish? “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” Matthew 7:24-27 The foolish did not act on what they heard. Jesus knew the wise virgins and not the foolish ones because the wise ones kept His commandments? “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15 But if anyone loves God, he is known by Him. 1 Corinthians 8:3 The foolish had heard His words and knew about Him but that wasn't enough. They didn't act on His words but instead did their own thing. If you believe in Him, you will act on His words. You will keep His commandments. You will become wise. You will be known by Him and you will fare well in any tribulation including the great tribulation.

Those who know Jesus will fare well regardless of eschatological shortcomings.

In Rev 17 Babylon the city is described as: "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Revelation 17:18 To me, NYC qualifies both because the UN headquarters is there and it fits the Rev 18 description. Things can change but if the 10 leaders act anytime soon, the likely target is NYC.

May the body of Christ discern between deception and truth, between good and evil, and walk in the Light. Amen.

God specified the group explicitly "every tribe and people and tongue and nation" for a reason. He could have said "all" but instead He expounded. Now I understand why. Believe what you want, I'm not going to argue. Just don't be surprised if you find yourself to be a part of every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

Well, I speak English and I'd expect that the majority of America still does although the numbers are declining.

I'm not discounting your "synecdoche". I just see it as irrelevant. When it states very specifically every tribe and people and tongue and nation it goes a bit beyond "all" wouldn't you say?

The Bible is pretty explicit this time when it says every tribe and people and tongue and nation. I wouldn't bank on being excluded from that list.

Maybe not specifically by name, however, we are a nation made of people that speak a tongue, aren't we? It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. Revelation 13:7 America will be affected as will the rest of the world, to one degree or another.

The man of sin's rule, and subsequent persecution of believers, is global according to scripture. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. Revelation 13:7 And who comes out of the great tribulation? After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands. Revelation 7:9 The old Roman empire's geographic boundaries are irrelevant. There aren't 10 kingdoms. There are 10 kings who don't rule a country yet reign as kings for one hour. The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. Revelation 17:12 The final world kingdom starts off as the feet of iron and clay, a multinational, multicultural kingdom which describes the U.N. perfectly. Out of this kingdom ten kings will rise and another one comes after them uprooting three of the ten. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. Daniel 7:24 Out of the feet of iron and clay kingdom, ten kings will rise and will reign for one hour. The man of sin uses supernatural power to destroy three of the ten and the rest fall in line. They worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” Revelation 13:4 The signs and wonders the man of sin performs deceives the world into worshiping him. There is no tolerance for those who won't worship and the penalty is death. His authority is global according to scripture. Prepare accordingly.

Thanks. I agree and will look at rewording it.