Defending the Name

Instead of trying to limit what 'we' think God would or would never do, we should instead heed what He has shown us will happen per His Word. When He says the world will wonder at that beast that ascends from the bottomless pit, when they behold him (Rev.17:8), that's what will happen, the world will be fooled by his appearance also including the miracles he is going to work on earth, seeing him as God, just as Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thess.2:4. He will appear with the image of 'man' on earth, because that's the likeness image God created him with. Further, when our flesh body dies, the image likeness our spiritual body has is the image of man. Just because it's the image of the heavenly does not mean it has to only happen with a flesh body, which thinking is actually to counter what God's Word reveals. Good. Point taken.

Even him is the false prophet of the religious mystery Babylon worldly system that is lamb like in appearance, meaning it is christian in appearance. This false prophet is the counterpart of John the Baptist whose job is to prepare the way for his master satan, however the false prophet of the world wide unified religious system will prepare the ten patriarchal, that are ten patriarchs of the main ten christian denominations (kings) who have no physical kingdom to give their power over to him, in a unified religious system. This preparation allows the man of sin who is the beast of the bottomless Pitt to emerge in pomp and ceremony to be received as the earthly messiah. So the man of sin has his own John the Baptist like prophet to prepare the way for him. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

This post is pretty much gobbledygook. There will be some that will NOT die physically: they will be "caught up" with alive and instantly changed into a resurrection body. However, to qualify for this event, one must have died previously. As Paul wrote, when one is born again, their spirit person (the Old Man) is put to death, and God creates a totally new spirit man with the Holy Spirit indwelling the newly created human spirit. It is in truth a NEW YOU! The Old you was nailed to the cross. This new spirit has been raised to sit in heavenly places in Christ, far above all principalities and powers. But make no mistake, the day will come when Jesus WILL APPEAR and come FOR His saints. He will not come to the earth, but will stop in the air and we will be caught up to heaven. Again, make no mistake, Jesus will yet come again AFTER that coming, WITH His saints. Then every eye will see Him. HOW? It will be dark for days on end, and suddenly will come a light brighter than the sun, lighting up the sky as lightning. without much doubt, He will be caught on cameras so that every eye will see Him, This time He will be coming for BATTLE. It is all laid out in scripture. Our job is to BELIEVE IT. LAMAD Firstly friend I tried my best to explain scripture so that you can be edified and there was no reply to what I had originally stated. But that is ok, I will try again. You are basing your whole based thinking on words that you don't really understand in context. For example you stated the following; " they will be "caught up" with alive and instantly changed into a resurrection body" Another word that people use for "caught up" is rapture or translated. Now these terms must adhere to scripture and not interpreted in the way the meaning is in the dictionary. Saint Paul testifies that all men are destined to die once and then to be brought before The Lord for judgement. Death onto eternal life with Christ is the central theme presented by Jesus and his disciples. Jesus would say many times, be faithful onto death. Saint Paul would say that day has now arrived for me for I have finished the race and kept the faith. All eyes will see him, because all are defined to die once and then to come before their maker for judgement, in the separation of the the sheep and the TARES. Christ rose up on high as the almighty judge. Because we as witnesses are tied to the blood covenant, we cannot pass from earthly life onto heavenly life without the earthly body dying first. The earthly body must be dissolved, in another words die, before we can put on the heavenly body. The heavenly body is not an earthly body. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Now we come to those living who will be caught up. What does this mean in context? Obviously death is bitter and painful, yet these end day saints before the destruction of the world, meaning everyone dies, they are literally passed from the earthly state to the heavenly heavenly without them ever feeling or noticing the destruction of their earthly bodies. How can I explain this to you in today's generation of thinking. Let us take this analogy. Let us say you are in space ship one, and the space ship is about to blow up and destroy you. You are a conscious being having a bio mechanical earthly body as an interface to your soul. At the point space ship one blows up your body starts disintegrating into finite particles, then at that instant before the threshold of pain, your soul is beamed up into space two in another vessel that houses your soul and that now becomes your interface. Question is, did you pass from death into life in another vessel that now houses your soul? Yes! What happened to the earthly bio mechanical body? It was destroyed along with space ship one. This is what scripture calls caught up or rapture or translated. Your soul is being teleported from one interface to another interface and this analogy is similar to being translated from the earthly life to the heavenly life to be with Christ. Technically your earthly body still dies without you experiencing the pain of death. These elect are said to be blessed because they already have gone through tremendous spiritual suffering, where scripture states that if God didn't shorten those days for the sake of the elect, then no flesh will survive. So rather than letting them die due to the inhabitable place that earth will become, they are translated, just before the earth is destroyed forever, never to rise again.

The church is the body of believers in Christ. Those that hold the testimony of Jesus are witnesses of the blood covenant, therefore they must die, they are not going anywhere. Hebrews 9:15-17 15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. If you are a Christian then you are a testator / witness of Jesus, this means that you must sign of from this world with your own blood. This is the bitter cup which is death which Jesus said you must drink of. Saint Paul said all men are destined to die once then to come in the presence of The Lord for judgement. The Lord doesn't want to see you unless you die first, for death shall bring you before your maker for judgement. You can't cheat death, the rapture is passing from death onto life and unless you sign out of this world with your blood, then you can't be presented before The Lord for judgement for the works done in the body. Now this judgement all men will face for it is the first judgement to declare you as either his sheep or TARES. This is not to be confused with the final judgement when the seventh trumpet is sounded by Christ who declares time no longer. Saint Paul testifies of this in: 2 Timothy 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. That day that Saint Paul was alluding to is when he was about to be killed and he was telling the faithful that he is about to depart from the earthly realm and sign out with his blood, so to be presented before the righteous judge before he can claim his eternal inheritance, which is the crown of righteousness.

Scripture has to be interpreted from John's time right up to she the beast of the bottomless Pitt aka satan emerges as the man of sin to destroy the seven hilled city (Christianity). To look and interpret scriptures through political events is to look through a straw. God is concerned with worship and does not care about earthly kingdoms. God is calling you out of the earthly real to him, by worshipping him and supping with him. Babylon (first beast) and mystery Babylon (second beast) are thousands of years apart.

The majority of your post is just to get off the subject of David's throne, an earthly throne. So show me where David's throne, an earthly throne, was ever moved to Heaven? That's not written of course. But it is written that David's throne is to be Christ's throne of inheritance, and when...Matt.1928 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.Luke 132 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David: Notice it says the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of his glory. This is a metaphorical language and does not mean that he succeeds David in sitting in his literal earthly throne. If that was the case then David's throne would have continued throughout the Jewish generations right up until now and then a messiah comes and sits on the literal physical throne. The phrase is a metaphor and an expression of the literal in a spiritual sense. Yes the Son of Man will sit in David's throne of glory. Now please put emphasis on the word glory. King David earthly throne is a shadow and a depiction of the glory of Christ's heavenly throne as Melchizedek king of shalom. Therefore David was a servant acting in the position of that throne for that throne belonged to the Christ in the first place. David knew this and he declared: Psalm 110:1 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Only an earthly king acting on behalf of his Lord would make the above statement. King David knew he was only acting in the position of his Lord. It is therefore not David's throne of glory, it was all along Christ's throne of glory, yet David a servant was prepared to act in that position temporarily until: The real David who is the Christ sits on the throne permanently. It is the throne of glory and it is an expression of position rather than a literal throne. It is a metaphorical expression to highlight that it is a title. I will prove this to you through scriptures. "ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." The disciples when asking Jesus who will sit on his right or left, he replied that the Father decides. Now if you look at the elders in chapter 7 of Revelation of John, you will note the 144,000 have 12 elders representing every tribe and the apostles representing the other 12 elders. Now you have 24 heavenly elders or judges as part of the jury that sat with Christ when he ascended up on high. Look upon the commencement of the millennium reign and this happens: Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. These are the thrones spoken of of the 24 heavenly judges that sat with Christ in the heavenly procession or court room of God. Remember the elder that spoke to John in Revelation chapter 7. So these 24 earthly judges was a shadow for what was to come to fruition of the future 24 heavenly judges who would sit with the glorified Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. The 24 earthly judges acted in those position as servants just as did David act in the throne of Christ's glory which is given the title throne of his glory, who's glory? Christ's glory. Just like the throne always belonged to Christ, the 24 earthly judges always were destined for heavenly tabernacle and here is the proof. Revelation 21:12-14 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. This is a heavenly city New Jerusalem that has come about after the chosen have died and been resurrected in the glorified bodies of angels to be the many heavenly hosts (the white cloud) that Christ rides with. No, Christ inheriting the throne of David is not metaphorical language. You'd realize that if you knew more about it in Bible prophecy concerning that throne on earth. Furthermore, that Matt.19 example would mean the thrones He promised His Apostles would sit upon would be metaphorical thrones also, if what you said were true. ... Matt.1928 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. The earth is not destined for Christ's glory, you are in error friend, the king of this word who has dominion of the things of the earthly realm is Satan the devil. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world and he also said: John 14:28-31 28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. Chapter 14 of John is in context to the Holy Ghost who was to be given on Pentecost. Now Jesus said the world will never see me again, yet his disciples will for he will manifest himself to them. Judas not Iscariot would ask Jesus to further elaborate on how he can return and shown himself to his disciples, yet the world will not see him ever again. Jesus when promising to come, was speaking in context to the Holy Ghost for he said it is better for me to go, so that the comforter can come. Jesus said I will not leave you comfortless as orphans for I will send you the comforter. Jesus said on that day, which is Pentecost as far as his disciples were concerned, that they will be in him and he in them in spiritual unity within the context of the Holy Ghost that was to be given. Jesus distances himself from the prince of this world by saying he has no influence on me, yet when he comes, what does that mean? Jesus said that he comes as the Holy Ghost to comfort the hearts of the disciples, yet the prince of this world is satan for he is coming, coming where? To earth. Satan is coming to earth and not the risen Lord, because the risen Lord has distanced himself from the earthly realm and has left it to the devices of satan. Jesus warns that Satan is coming and when people realise that he is not the messiah, they will learn that I always loved the Father and did exactly what the Father sent me for. What was it that the Father sent Jesus for? Was it to rule from an earthly kingdom within the prince of this world's dominion? No! To have this thought is completely opposite to scriptures and to what Jesus said regarding where his dominion is. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. Take it literally on the words that the lord had spoken to this disciples. He also said he is not coming back to earth and the world will never see him ever again. You need to take this literally as well because he has already made his dwelling place with the faithful as the Comforter who knocks on the door of our hearts and leads us to all truth. So what was Jesus asked to do that he already did when he is on the cross at Calvary, "it is finished". What was he sent to do? The first and most important is to be the sin offering of God to the world for that redemption of sin. This is the only salvation path to God, because the promise to Abraham had already been fulfilled when he took the old covenant bride with him when he arose up on high, after all these dead old covenant Saints were waiting for Christ first and only earthly coming, were they not? Off course they were, so the promise to Abraham and the old covenant Saints was delivered in full. All nations, including Jews who fall within the new covenant age must all say blessed is he who came in the name of The Lord and only then can they come one by one through the blood covenant. What else was Jesus sent to do? Raise us up on our last days in our earthly bodies when the thief (death) comes on a day and hour that we know not to destroy our earthly house. So we are destined to die, then be judged and based on the condition that we are found worthy, we are raised in our new heavenly angelic spirit bodies and are drawn onto Christ from death, through the first resurrection (resurrection of the dead) and onto life as one of the many hosts of heaven, the white cloud that he rides. Christ draws us onto him and is not coming back for we are the ones that are being raptured out of this life to the eternal life with him, because when he left he said he is not coming back and left the earthly realm to the dominion of the prince of this world, who is the person who is actually going to come. It is satan who is coming and not The Lord. John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." Jesus said: John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. Where is Jesus now? In the third heaven the heavenly realm of the angelic white cloud that he rides with. Now where are we going after we die? To him. So where is that? The heavenly realm. As Saint Paul said to be away from the body is to be present with The Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. There is no earthly reign of Christ. So why so so many people place so much focus on an earthly kingdom? Doing so is in support of the prince of this world, after all was it not the devil who took Jesus on a high mountain and promised him all the kingdoms of this world, if he only kneeled down and worshipped him. There is no earthly coming, for Christ is not coming to earth and there is no earthly reign for Christ has left satan and his seed to their own devices until the end of the new covenant age, where the beast of the bottomless Pitt who is satan emerges from his spiritual prison, to be incarnated into the world as a man of sin, to only go to his destruction into the lake of fire. What is the agenda of the earthly second coming? And who has the most to gain or benefit from it? If it is man, then the doctrine is from man. All I see is people point blank ignoring what Jesus said and yet they speak of him as they are his friend. It seems that this kind of friendship is born on pleasing man and not God. Friends don't use friends for their own purposes, for this is not friendship but usury. Satan has this concept of usury in his portfolio. Just listen to what Jesus says and obey his every word and not try and make use of Jesus for the purpose of man or his earthly kingdoms. All the earthly kingdoms are under Satan's influence and anyone thinking otherwise is delusional. This is why it is declared: Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." So please people don't believe in any earthly manifested messiah, otherwise you will die in the lake of fire. I am warning you and I feel that words don't mean anything anymore to this generation, because they have already made up their minds to what ever tickles their ears. Take this message as brotherly love and save yourselves from the king of this world who is the one coming, for he is the mother of all idol worship and is THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE. That is anyone that falls for his lie will perish forever in the lake of fire. Don't fall for the strong delusion brothers and sisters. The world is expecting the return of the messiah yet they are prepared to receive the devil, because the true messiah is not coming friends because he said so and unless you listen to him and not your hearts desires then you are in danger. The second coming doctrine prepares the world for Satan's earthly coming Isaiah 14:9-11 9The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; (Satan's coming as the beast of the bottomless Pitt) it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you— all those who were leaders in the world; (Most of the world will fall for his lie and perish with him) it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations. 10They will all respond, they will say to you, “You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.” (You have become mortal and human like us) 11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you. (Your second coming in pomp and ceremony will be to your own destruction as the beast of the bottomless Pitt and your end shall be in the lake of fire)

The majority of your post is just to get off the subject of David's throne, an earthly throne. So show me where David's throne, an earthly throne, was ever moved to Heaven? That's not written of course. But it is written that David's throne is to be Christ's throne of inheritance, and when... Matt.19 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 1 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David: Notice it says the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of his glory. This is a metaphorical language and does not mean that he succeeds David in sitting in his literal earthly throne. If that was the case then David's throne would have continued throughout the Jewish generations right up until now and then a messiah comes and sits on the literal physical throne. The phrase is a metaphor and an expression of the literal in a spiritual sense. Yes the Son of Man will sit in David's throne of glory. Now please put emphasis on the word glory. King David earthly throne is a shadow and a depiction of the glory of Christ's heavenly throne as Melchizedek king of shalom. Therefore David was a servant acting in the position of that throne for that throne belonged to the Christ in the first place. David knew this and he declared: Psalm 110:1 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Only an earthly king acting on behalf of his Lord would make the above statement. King David knew he was only acting in the position of his Lord. It is therefore not David's throne of glory, it was all along Christ's throne of glory, yet David a servant was prepared to act in that position temporarily until: The real David who is the Christ sits on the throne permanently. It is the throne of glory and it is an expression of position rather than a literal throne. It is a metaphorical expression to highlight that it is a title. I will prove this to you through scriptures. "ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." The disciples when asking Jesus who will sit on his right or left, he replied that the Father decides. Now if you look at the elders in chapter 7 of Revelation of John, you will note the 144,000 have 12 elders representing every tribe and the apostles representing the other 12 elders. Now you have 24 heavenly elders or judges as part of the jury that sat with Christ when he ascended up on high. Look upon the commencement of the millennium reign and this happens: Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. These are the thrones spoken of of the 24 heavenly judges that sat with Christ in the heavenly procession or court room of God. Remember the elder that spoke to John in Revelation chapter 7. So these 24 earthly judges was a shadow for what was to come to fruition of the future 24 heavenly judges who would sit with the glorified Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. The 24 earthly judges acted in those position as servants just as did David act in the throne of Christ's glory which is given the title throne of his glory, who's glory? Christ's glory. Just like the throne always belonged to Christ, the 24 earthly judges always were destined for heavenly tabernacle and here is the proof. Revelation 21:12-14 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. This is a heavenly city New Jerusalem that has come about after the chosen have died and been resurrected in the glorified bodies of angels to be the many heavenly hosts (the white cloud) that Christ rides with.

God made a promise to Abraham that he will raise Him and bring him into the promised land. The land that Abraham was sojourning to find is the dwelling place of God. Did Christ fulfill the promise? Yes, all the Old Covenant saints were waiting for the promised Messiah to raise them from their graves and bring them into their promised heavenly land. The prophecy in Ezekiel 37:11-14 was fulfilled in: Mat 27:52-53 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (KJV) The promise given to Abraham was to the old covenant peoples only and it was fulfilled when christ took with him into heavenly new Jerusalem the many captives and gave them all gifts, as recorded in Ephesians 4:8. Today's jews that have yet to accept Christ are considered as Gentiles until they do accept Christ. As Jesus gave them a condition by which they will be saved: Mat 23:39 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (KJV) So as it is written the first who the gospel message was intended fir will be the last to receive it. Today's jews will be the 11th hour workmen and they will also go through tribulation and die. After accepting Christ and then keeping the faith until death, then and onky then can they be saved and have eternal life.

He is reigning with the firstfruits (144,000) and as many new covenant saints that have entered eternal life through the first resurrection. The risen lord is already sitting on the throne of David. Daniel 2:44 puts this heavenly kingdom at the time of the first century kings.

Your chronology seems a bit whacked. Compare when Revelation was written with what you're saying. Babylon is synonymous with rebellion against God or ungodliness. Its symbolized by a harlot, not a beast or beasts. The harlot that rides the first beast. Th first beast is her instrument just like Jezebel used Ahab to execute her will. Religion is the guiding force in politics, the first beast is during the time of the Old Testament . The second beast takes over where the first beast let of and this entity becomes called mystery Babylon and is a christian entity (lamb like). We know this because the scripture states that it has the blood of the martyrs of Jesus of its hands. Revelation 17:5-6 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. The first entity Babylon does not have the blood of the martyrs of Jesus but states the following: Revelation 14:6-8 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Notice the fall of the first Babylon the great harlot is at the time where the everlasting gospel begins to be preached by the first angel message, then followed consecutively by the second angel message who declares at that time that Babylon has fallen.

how do you throw the second beast and the false prophet in the fire if the beast is a religious system The beast has to be some kind of entity or we couldn't throw it into the fire. It was a religious entity that existed even during the time of the prophets of the Old Testament. Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Then as I have said in this or another thread, I think it is actually Azazel...... head prince fallen angel that is older than the earth itself. I don't understand what you are alluding to here?

how do you throw the second beast and the false prophet in the fire if the beast is a religious system The beast has to be some kind of entity or we couldn't throw it into the fire. It was a religious entity that existed even during the time of the prophets of the Old Testament. Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. So to be that old and be an entity it must be a fallen angel? I really don't think you can throw an abstraction like religion into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is for Satan and his angels. The goats who follow Satan will be there too. Babylon is synonymous with rebellion against God. Babylon is a religious system because it is labeled a harlot. To be called a harlot the religious system must have had at one time a husband, before her husband disowned her because of her rejecting him.

All the church of whom are those who hold the testimony of Jesus are required to drink from the bit cup of Christ. This bitter cup is death. No one can escape death and rapture is an escape route. Jesus said many times to be faithful onto death. Saint Paul states that every man is destined to die once then judgement. Most importantly you cannot inherit eternal life to be with Christ unless you first die. Hebrews 9:15-17 15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. The blood covenant requires your death to be posted before you can inherit your eternal life. Noah's days has the central theme which is death. Matthew 24:36-41 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The central theme to the taking away is death. When the food took them away they all died. The one that is taken implies that they die. So the word taken or raptured is a Jewish idiom for being killed or dying. Like the expression take him out, can mean to take him our if the room or to kill him. Being taken according to the Noah's days is the central theme which is death. No one knows for certain the day or hour they will be taken out of this earthly life. No one knows when they will die. Matthew 24:42-44 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. The above versus places the Lord's coming for that individual on the day and hour where the thief comes to destroy your earthly house. This is another Jewish idiom, where thief is not a literal thief but according to the central theme that is death mentioned above, the thief is death itself. The earthly house is your earthly tent which is your body. Matthew 24:50-51 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The Lord comes for every departed. This is the Lord's appearing mentioned by Saint Paul in the epistles. So it the saying goes, death will bring you to your maker on a day and hour that you do not know and are not prepared for. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:20-27 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28 You will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds (his host of heaven, the holy ones), when you die. How do you think how all eyes will see him? Revelation 1:7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen. All eyes will see him because death brings us before The Lord for judgement: Hebrews 9:27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment. What did Jesus tell the high priest? Matthew 26:63-64 The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Jesus tells the high priest from NOW ON all of you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven. When did this happen to the high priest, if Jesus said from now on meaning in the immediate future. What would bring the high priest before his maker for judgement? Death. Therefore all eyes will see him. Saint Paul when ready to be killed comforted congregation by his letter by saying that he is now ready to be presented for judgement before The Lord at his appearing, to be awarded the crown of righteousness, meaning eternal life. So when did the appearing of The Lord happen to Saint Paul? When he was killed. He also comforted the congregation by saying that their deaths on their own unique day and hour will also present them before The Lord. That day that Saint Paul was speaking about is when the faithful in Christ dies. 2 Timothy 4:6-8 6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. The church is bought under the blood covenant and it necessitates that its witnesses must also drink from the bitter cup of Christ and to also die before they are judged worthy to be numbered amongst his angelic white cloud, of his measured inner court. Now let us address the tribulation question. Read the versus below carefully. Revelation 7:9-14 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Under the blood covenant. The church is represented by all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues. All of these are those who hold the testimony of Jesus for they are Christians. What happens to them? These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. The church goes through the great tribulation and is not pardoned from death. The mistake that pre-trib make is they associate death with the wrath of God, when the fact remains that the beast of the bottomless Pitt who is satan emerges in flesh to destroy the church who are a symbol of the two witnesses. The wrath of God is unleashed upon the inhabitants of earth only after the church is martyred across the world by satan incarnate in flesh as the earthly messiah. Satan's followers will not thing to be the devil, but their messiah, for he is the king of this world. What was said to those departed crying under the altar of God in Revelation 6:9-11? To be patient and wait for their brothers to also die and enter in through the resurrection by making their white angelic robes white by the blood of the lamb of God. We cannot be oriented before The risen Lord unless we die and inherit the Holy Spirit body of an angel. Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. The first time we were born from our earthly mothers and inherited the sin of Adam. So the second time without sin when we are presented before The Lord, is when we are raised as one of the holy ones (angelic white cloud) that the risen lord resides with. There is no earthly second of Christ. It is the believer who is drawn to Christ from death and into resurrection. 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

how do you throw the second beast and the false prophet in the fire if the beast is a religious system The beast has to be some kind of entity or we couldn't throw it into the fire. It was a religious entity that existed even during the time of the prophets of the Old Testament. Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

No America is no Babylon, because Babylon was declared as fallen in the first century. It is a religious system and not a state per say. It is a religious system that existed way back from the old covenant times and received its head wound in 70 AD by the destruction of the temple. Today the continuation of that religious practice is being headed by the global mystery Babylon religious system that is lamb like, meaning christian in appearance. America is not an advocate to the first beast, but serves the purpose of the global mystery Babylon religious system that has taken over the world by countless wars, this global mystery Babylon religious system is the second beast that continued where the first beast left of from.

The first beast and second beast are ages apart. The first beast is religious system dating back from the old covenant times and the second beast that carries on with the first beast's legacy and is christian in appearance (lamb like). The mark of the beast is the first beast's mark and it is he that is being worshipped and not the second beast. The second beast is an advocate on behalf of the first beast. The first beast is a symbol of Babylon, whereas the second beast is a continuation of the fallen first century Babylon religious system as now the global mystery Babylon religion that encompasses the whole world.

The to symbolic two witnesses preach the everlasting gospel to the ends of the earth. Who in the last almost 2000 years has been preaching the gospel? Those that have the testimony of Jesus also have the Holy Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The two witnesses cannot be old covenant saints under the mosaic law. Remember what Jesus told John: Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

His light shines very bright in my life, thank you. I have studied this over and over again, been in many long discussions with others, yet, this is the first time someone has tried to tell me that mankind is born with the mark of the beast. Man was born into sin. Nothing in scripture tells us that we were born with the mark of the beast, his name or number. As I asked, can you show scripture that backs up what you say? You explained to us what you believe, yet you provide no scripture to point to back up your belief that original sin is what is being spoken of in Revelation. Being a discussion forum, you should be prepared to provide support from His words. I have made my first thread titled who is the first beast and who is the second beast. If you will kindly note that the second beast is not who is worshipped and it is not his mark, but the mark is of the first beast. Read my thread and feel free to comment. You will see that the millennium reign happens at the time when original Babylon falls who is the first beast, followed by the initiating of the long awaited resurrection of the dead and satan being imprisoned in the bottomless Pitt. Rapture is to take away and to bank it so to speak, Christ banked all the departed faithful at that time into his heavenly barn, the time of the reaping of the great harvest of God. Satan's imprisonment commenced the millennium reign were thrones could be seen and those that entered the first resurrection both old covenant first fruits (144,000) and the new covenant sat as the heavenly jury. Rem,ever the 24 earthly judges was a shadow of the heavenly judges who would sit with Christ in the heavenly sanctuary as the 24 elders. Millennium separates the first and the second beast and to us living now, it is almost 2000 years and counting. Futurists say that these events are in the future, but where they fall over is that they place the church being raptured before the seven year literal tribulation and the battle of Gog and Magog following the rapture. There is no millennium between the first beast and the second beast nor is there any correlation to the initial imprisoning of satan to his ultimate destruction in the lake of fire. The only way you can resolve the battle of Gog and Magog is if it is separated by the millennium reign.

Brother, it is obvious from your posts that you are getting this information somewhere. As some here have pointed out you are incorrect with your mark of the beast from birth assertion. Please tell me, who is teaching you this? Google it and you will not find it. I got it from Christ my Father.

God will turn the heat up. Malachi 4 ​ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. God has his man appointed and if your not hearing him, the oven is prepared extra warm. These are the days of slaughter. God is going to renovate earth a little as follows: Zephaniah 1:14-18 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. The oven is the scorching sun prepared for the wicked.

The beast who comes from the sea, is the cradle of civilisation, which us ancient Babylon, that is the head of Gold. The sea represents peoples of many nations, all living in that same region. The second beast is lamb like, so he is pretending to be a christian religious system, but practices the same thing as the first religious system that was the symbol of Babylon, the second beast becomes the mystery Babylon system that encompasses the whole world because he comes out from the new colonised lands.

Now I'm confused, so your not a preterist?

Sorry OneLight I did my best explaining it, the rest is beyond my human abilities. May The Lord shine his light and reveal his truth to all including me.

If it was the earthly throne that Christ wanted, then they would have made him king and defeated the Romans. Simple! But what conversation did Jesus have with the roman emperor? John 18:34-37 Jesus replied, “Is this your own question, or did others tell you about me?” “Am I a Jew?” Pilate retorted. “Your own people and their leading priests brought you to me for trial. Why? What have you done?” Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.” Pilate said, “So you are a king?” Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.” Jesus stated that my Kingdom us not of this world. Will Jesus go back on his word? I don't think so! Who is the king of this world? John 14:28-31 28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. So who is come to earth to rule? The prince of this world. Who us the prince of this world? John 12:30-32 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Notice Jesus says I will be lifted up from earth yet the prince of this world will be cast out. It is satan who is cast out, for he is the king of this world. Also very important Jesus says he will draw all men unto him. He doesn't come back to earth, for it is us that are being drawn or raptured out from this life to the heavenly life as the many angelic hosts of heaven. Matthew 22:27-30 And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. So we need to die keeping the faith, then we are resurrected in the celestial body of an angel. This is how we are drawn or raptured out of this world and taken from the king of this world's hands to be reunited with Christ. There is no second earthly coming of Christ and don't be shocked I didn't say this Jesus said this. John 14:15-27 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit 15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. (So Jesus promises to come back. The question in what form?) 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. (Jesus rules out a physically earthly manifestation right here) 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. (Which day Jesus, do you mean Pentecost?) 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” (Jesus how will you show yourself to the believer, since you are not going to manifest yourself physically on earth for the whole world to see?) 22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” (Good question Judas) 23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. (Jesus did you say you and the Father will make your home with us?) 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. 25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. ( Jesus thank you, I get it know you are coming as the Holy Ghost to make your home in the hearts of the believer. That is why you once said that you stand at the door and knock and if any man opens, you will come into them and communion with them) 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. So you are faithful Lord you haven't left us like orphans as you stated above and are present with us in Spirit. So is was on Pentecost which that day you were foretelling your disciples about that we as believers will realise that You are in the Father, and we are in you, and you are in us. This is the Holy Ghost, you are coming as the Holy Ghost. This is why you said: John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. There you go, The Lord comes as the Holy Ghost, which rules out a physical manifestation. Since the Holy Ghost will never leave the believer even when the world ends, then The Lord will as he stated before will never come to earth for this domain is Satan's domain, who is the king of this world. The only physical manifested coming will be the king of this world who is the beast of the bottomless Pitt who is also known as satan. Isaiah 14:9-12 9The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you— all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations. 10They will all respond, they will say to you, “You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.” 11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you. 12How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! The second coming earthly doctrine Hmmmmm! Who is it for? The king of this world. Revelation 9:1-2 ​ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. If this second coming doctrine has been feed to countless generations, then it is game set and match, the devil wins. It is the devil who is coming. You cannot come into the presence of The Lord unless you die, be judged worthy to be raised and then put on the celestial body of an angel. This is how Christ raptures believers out of this world and out of the hands of the king if this world. Saint Paul puts it bluntly as follows: Hebrews 9:28 Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. The first time we were born from earthly mothers inheriting the sin of Adam, the second time is when we are presented before the risen Lord when we put on the incorruptible heavenly spirit body of angels, after the resurrection. We are presented to him the second time as one of the many Holy ones (white cloud) that he resides with. This is how we are drawn or raptured to him, for it is through the resurrection of the dead, only after we die. You mentioned the phrase that all his enemies will be made his footstool. Do you know what this means? It means he kills them off, everyone of them dies and perishes in the lake of fire, never to rise again. Isaiah 14:21-23 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts. Let's look at that phrase to establish its true context: 1 Corinthians 15:23-26 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Notice the context presented by Saint Paul is the resurrection of the dead. Christ was raised as the forerunner, the the old covenant saints (144,000), who were waiting for the messiah to come to raise them (Matthew 27:52-53). Then Jesus said after he enters his heavenly kingdom those faithful will not taste death and will both in their own order when they die be raptured from this earthly life to the heavenly life to be present with the risen Lord. The end comes when every faithful that was written in the book of life has already entered as the many guests to wedding supper of the lamb of God. This is when he draws all those that he redeemed through the resurrection. He will continue to do so until he literally destroys all his enemies when death itself is no longer plays in the earthly realm, because everyone is dead, everyone dies. The last enemy destroyed is death and hell in the lake of fire, that is the second death. Revelation 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Now the land or the world is at peace because every human being is dead. Isaiah 14:7-8 7All the lands are at rest and at peace; they break into singing. 8Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon gloat over you and say, “Now that you have been laid low, no one comes to cut us down.” Notice the trees sing because no one comes to cut them down, because everyone is dead. This is poetic isn't it? Let me leave a prophetic warning for my brothers and sisters. Satan when he comes in flesh as the beast of the bottomless Pitt, he will use that phrase of putting his enemies under his feet by perpetrating a world wide Calvary of all true believers in Christ. There will remain the elect, they will be protected by angels and prepared in their chambers for the days of slaughter of those who took pleasure in the whole sale slaughter of the two symbolic witnesses who are the born again Christians. Christ draws us to him through death and onto resurrection and will never come back to earth. The war with Satan is heating up and Christ will kill him and who ever sides with him, for the devil is the king if this world and Christ is the king of the heavenly congregation of the many hosts of heaven (the white cloud).

So you are full preterist I gather when you state the term Soon to all events right?