Riverwalker

There is nothing Analagous to creation. God did not say....approximate light he said let their be light The ONLY way you have to start playing these games and monkeying with what God says, is if you are trying to force the man made notion (which is both unproven, and unobserved) Into what God has said If you start taking parts of the bible and say God didn't really mean that, you might as well throw your bible away as it is unreliable. When Jesus said something like I am the Sheepgate, He went on to explain it. These analogies and parables was a way of expressing a spiritual concept in a way they could under stand There is not much explanation need for Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Made from dust, not apes

God said how when and why He created

I Agree Oh for some it makes humble, and others it makes it rankles pride I am reminded what Paul said in 2nd Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. And 1 Corinthians 13 13: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If we don't correct with the proper, loving, longsuffering attitude it can all go south quick!

But why would you believe that God would do it that way when what he told us was quite different. Creating light three days before the sun, creating birds before Land animals and forming man out of the dust of the earth Why would God lie to us like that? He had to know one day we would all find out and know him for the liar he was..... OR He didn't lie. He did it JUST the way He said Can you seriously prove that fossils are hard evidence for anything more than fossils?

I have found that the truth is always simple. and the lie requires excessive nuance Evidence does not need to be parsed. It simply shows what is. In the case of this question the ONLY thing that fossils are evidence of is Fossils. Any mental puzzling you do after that, is conjecture. Just the facts. So it boils down to who you believe. Men....who have spend decades trying to piece together a natural explanation using the existing facts to try and make a picture It is like a child's dot to dot game, where you draw lines between the dots and say " I made a bunny". Well no you did not make a bunny, you made pencil lines on a 2 dimensional piece of paper that has the appearance of something like a bunny. But its not alive, its not furry, its not breathing, its not a bunny. This is the limitation of men trying to understand the things of God in our limited 3 dimensional time ruled world. And if things do not make sense to us (as if the wonderous nature of God and His creation could make sense to us) then we try and make it , make sense to us, and that is were we get: Modern Evolutionary Theory. It occurred for No Reason, no purpose no cause, came from nothing survived for no reason. Life spontaneous erupting from no life (again for no reason, purpose or cause) Life becoming more and more complex (again for no reason, purpose or cause) culminating in. Nothing... because it had no purpose no reason no Cause Interesting but unproven gossamer fabrication draped over a loose and unconnected framework of dots. But then we have what God has said Creation I did it. I spoke it into existence, I created the light before the sun, birds and fish before land animals and man, no not from primates, but from the dust of the ground. I even said that Adam and Eve are we in the beginning with me. It didn't take me 6 billion years, it took me 6 days, and even that was longer than necessary, for time....that which you measure all things, was also part of my creation. I believe God, and he doesn't have to make sense to me.

You are probably right, but when it gets to be 5 or 6 times and the posts are just bouncing off like BBs shot a rock, it gets old

I do agree.....But I would rather see freedom with humility, the humbleness God has called us too I am probably the last person to try and convince people to be gentle and kind, and yet it is not my word....it is God's the vessel may be imperfect the message is pure

Brother you are a paragon of patience and virtue and my goal post....I am trying to attain

Yeah...I keep hearing Just walk away

Believers how is it we fall so easily into pride and dissention? How are we so easily duped into devolving into useless doctrinal squabbles by the enemy of man and God? Why are we becoming useless, arguing over petty doctrines, instead of lifting up and proclaiming Christ. We are so proud, think we know so much, think we know more than others, and bang away on our brass cymbals and tooting our own horns, and in the cacophony the reason, the purpose of what we are supposed to be doing gets lost. Should our purpose be to come together in the unity of the faith that God provides, or champion our pet theologies, taking offense at people who disagree with us. I see the heart of those who would see this all go away. I see the posts and the threads that go on endlessly clashing back and forth and accomplishing nothing. How is that we are so easily distracted...carried about by winds of doctrine, so many sounding brass and clanging cymbals that the message is lost in the cacophony. Shall we instead seek to find the unity Ephesians 4: 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. The New Man 17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Do Not Grieve the Spirit 25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give [g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

I am pretty sure my above statement was predicated on FUTURE (yet to be fulfilled) prophecies

Not if I was aware of it. I have stuck to Nelson Study bibles for most of my Christian life

Yep everyone CAN be saved and it is a Choice (but not everyone will make it) Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I see no exclusions here As far as why Calvinists believe that seems to be a little hard to pin down sometimes. there are many varieties (which often happens when men start making the rules)

Yes it is, But thank God for His mercy and grace that covers the mistakes we have made (Just a reminder as this is an unf0rtunately common sin, and if someone has fallen into it, it is not the end of God's love or forgiveness for you) Romans 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. ----------------------------------- Romans 8: 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Salvation is between you and God. nothing else. That being said "no man is an Island" The purpose of church is to join in fellowship with other believers, in prayer, praise and worship of God. Life on your own is very much harder Hebrews 10: 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

There is a time for every purpose under heaven I think such a time is important, but I am not sure that Sunday service where everyone is joined into the communion of the saints to pray, praise, worship, learn and fellowship is the time or place for such an "advanced" and potentially difficult session. Many people come to church for a refreshing and an influx of Godly positivity at the end of a hard week and are not looking for the controversy and drama such a session can entail (as we see from the forums ) In my OPINION it would be better saved for a midweek service or even a special service.

I see were it says God can judge the thoughts and intentions of our hearts....but is that judging us? What is the outcome of judgment but condemnation.

I would agree with almost everything thing here except using the word Judging when it comes to God If God were to judge us by our deeds, we would all be a heap of trouble. But God gives us mercy and grace Mercy God NOT giving us what we do deserve Grace God giving us what we DO NOT deserve I rest on His mercy and grace But there is wisdom is "....For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

I have studied and read God's word for nigh on 30 years, and STILL when the proverbial stuff hits the fan, I melt into a puddle of weakness. Perhaps they read the bible and KNEW they were supposed to complain

You mean like this? Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools ------------------------ Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ----------------------- 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [c]dignitaries ---------------- 1nd Thess:1 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed. that turn or burn doctrine?

Because they are not God and do not have His knowledge or Wisdom

Fact God has revealed himself to all of creation, by the nature of God, down to his love and Godhead is revealed to all. And those who respond to it and bow to God that is revealed in Creation have access to His grace. It is available to all. Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, Opinion It is my opinion that many have been saved by Jesus because they responded to the God they see in Creation, even if they never heard His name.

How many conditional statements do you see in the bible IF you believe you will be saved IF you call on the name of the Lord you will be saved IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved God in HIS sovereign wisdom gave us the choice to accept or reject his grace. With everyone having the same opportunity to be saved. And that is the point God is taking people into eternity who CHOSE to be with Him Choice.....it is all ours

Liberalism...of course. As Long as there are strong sovereign nations their fatally flawed dream of a global utopia will never work

No it doesn't mean that it means when we are conceived physically we are created Spiritualy/Soulishly. This body is temporary it will die and go back to the dust from whence it came.....but as Celine Deon sang, our hearts will go on and on