Gus

Thats fair enough George and I appreciate your quick response. However, although my statement was strong, I do not feel it was a personal attack, bearing the content of what the other poster was stating, which in itself was hardly from a position of love and respect? Still, it is your decision.

So I have been banned form two topics already just because I am challenging some the views held here. Now I cant even see the replies. Is that how it works around here? If you disagree or challenge anything you are just banned and blocked?

This comment just shows up your bigotry and intolerance. How 'you' see God and Jesus is not how everyone else in the world does. What does it say in the bible Jesus looked like exactly?

If people want to believe that God will send the Majority of the human race to eternal damnation in hell, then they will only present scriptures that try to back that up without actually getting into a meaningful discussion on the subject. What bothers me is those people seem to actually have a righteous attitude that hey are saved yet everyone else will burn in hell, probably including their own family and children... But they never present scriptures which proclaim that actually, maybe, there is salvation for all. So here you go... Colossians 1:15-20 - Does 'all' here actually mean all, or does something not agree and think its just means some? If you take it as it says, which all, there is no argument. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 - All die through adam. Nobody gets out to that. Therefore it is only right that all are made alive in Christ. But! Not all at the same time. Some will not until after death and will experience a process of reconciliation. Ephisans 1:9-10 - It is true that we can only go to God through his son Jesus, but that does not mean people will be cut out. They still have to go through Jesus. This actually strengths his work on the cross, it does not diminish it. 1 Timothy 2:3-6 - Gods will is to save all, and if the majority of mankind isn't, he has failed. 1 Timothy 4:9-11 - Saviour of all men, especially those who believe. Not only those who believe. John 1:29 1 John 2:2 Romans 5:6 Luke 23:34 - Would God not answer Jesus pray? Isaiah 45:25 Romans 5: 18-19 - The 'many' in 19 refers to 'all' in 18, so it is 'all'. Hebrews 10: 14-17 Shall I continue?

Well if you are going change scripture to say it wasn't an actual fruit but was an apple tart, then anything is game for being interpreted the way we want really isn't it? And does it matter anyway. Fruit? Tart? It's still the same effect.

Not directly granted. But is there any evidence to suggest there was? Maybe... The book of Genesis is not the beginning of God creating, as God must have created the angels prior to this and that was his focus and they witnessed God creating the earth Job 38:6-7 Before being a serpent, Satan was head of the angels in a previous Garden of Eden, which may not have been the same one Adam was in. Ezekiel 28:13 God will destroy this earth again, and there will another Eden, so it may be possible it did happen before. Ezekiel 36:35 In Revelation we are told Satan and his army of angels where thrown to the earth Rev 12: 7-9. But when did this happen? It doesn't seem to have happened anytime during the events of the bible, and as Satan was already in the Garden in a fallen sate, it must have happened before.

The sun and moon could be the first lights. When it comes to the 4th day, that seems to be about the stars, and the sun and moon are just being mentioned again to highlight that they separate day and night.

Well he nuked a fully functioning world before (the flood), so why not previous to this?

So why was there a tree of life of which they where prevented to eat from as it would then give them eternal life? Let's say that Adam and Eve where eternal before the fall. Would this also apply to animals and plants? Would fish, birds and insects live forever? Would plants never die? They can be eaten and Adam was to look after the garden so maybe it did not apply to animals and plants and therefore God could have destroyed previous animal life and plant? Also, if Adam and Eve where eternal, but they where told to re-produce, would their off-spring not die? And what age would they stop getting older? Wouldn't the world be come overpopulated pretty quickly? Was the death God was referring to a spiritual death. After all, he said they would surely die that day, but they didn't. They did however become aware of being naked, and then God killed animals to make them clothes.

Was death not in the garden? God prevented Adam and Eve from eating the fruit that gives eternal life. Gen 3:22 By preventing them, presumably they grow old and die like everyone else, which is what happened.

Is it possible that when God threw Satan and his angels out of heaven and to earth, it resulted in the destruction of a previous fully functioning world, pre-Adam? This could explain the extinction of dinosaurs and also as to why Satan was already on earth when Adam and Eve where created. If the earth was destroyed by violent impact (which most people assume was a meteor), the resulting dust and ash thrown up could block light, hence darkness over the deep. Let their be light may be removing this dark cloud. There is after all no times scale given in this verse, so we read it as a quick event because it is just one verse, it could be millions of years?

I don't see a danger. It is a work of art, and the like the best woks of art its goal is to get people talking and minds thinking, which is what we are doing here. I read it is a novel, and I never felt like the book was pushing an agenda. The book does raise questions that people in the world are interested in. If people do ask about it, rather than come across so dismissive, we can use it to open up a meaningful discussion. Is this book really any different from films such as Bruce Almighty or What Dreams May Come or classic books like The Divine Comedy, The Screwtape Letters, The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe etc Far from turning people away form the truth, often I find these types of works draw people closer, and then the holy spirit can do the rest. I had to stop watching the recent big budget 'The Bible' series, once angels turned up to save Lot and his family and started fighting people likes Ninja's. Now that is a lie trying desperately to portray itself as a truth.

The Shack is a novel, it is not a replacement or an extension of the Bible and neither is it trying to be. The book try to wrestle with the themes of God's love and forgiveness, judgement, why evil exists, loss and grief and many more. Personally, I enjoyed both the look and the film. I may not agree with all of it, but I don't have to. I still feel it is powerful and ultimately its message is one of hope.

It's not just Facebook that has become about self promotion, along with Instagram and Twitter. Unfortunately it has also now the same even on LinkedIn. If I sold trumpets I would be a multimillionaire now with the amount of people who like to blow their own. Not to the mention the dreaded humble brag... "I am so humbled and proud....that I have won this award / have come top on my months sales / now have this many likes and followers / have a new BMW sitting in my driveway etc etc. 2 Tim 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud...

Well, I’m using hyperbole here to raise a philosophical question. And I believe hell needs to be looked at with these questions as otherwise we tend to just ignore genuine concerns many have on the issue and just resort to the 'God is just' or 'If we don't like it, tough' responses. I don't think we can just say God does not care if people have issues with it. He absolutely does care, as there is a lot of confusion and fear on these matters. Many have walked away from their faith or cannot approach it at all because of it. No matter what they here about Jesus, the concept of eternal punishment in hell does not fit with being told God loves all unconditionally, God is love and God is merciful. Just to clarify, I believe in hell as a place of punishment, but that punishment has an outcome, otherwise, why keep punishing? What is the purpose? I have not yet fully made my made up if there is 'eternal' destruction or if everyone does in fact become reconciled to God. But enternall, on-going and conscious punishment I have come to reject. So that is where I currently sit on that. Anyway, sorry, I have gone 'off topic' here.,

Although I agree with this, it is also one of the (many) issues I have with the idea of an eternal hell. If children are not 'guilty' and therefore do not go to hell, then surely we would all be better off dying as children. In fact, infant death would be a blessing as you go straight to heaven, don't have to have the issues of this life to deal with and gain eternal life in heaven. Why risk reaching an 'age of accountability', where your fate may be eternal damnation in a fiery hell? And what of this age of accountability? When does someone stop becoming a child? What if someone was not 'accountable' and then the next day they where, and then died in a car crash? Are they now 'guilty'? If you say God will understand and be merciful, then why not two days? A week? A month? A year?...and so on.

By asking this I went back to my Bible to make sure I had my facts right. And I realised something I had not before... Cain was probably married before he was exiled! Lets look at the actual verse. Genesis 4:16-17 (NIV) 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[a] east of Eden. 17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. Some translations have this a 'knew his wife' which is just a biblical term for making love. It does not say he met his wife whilst in exile. So it is quite possible (and more likely now I think about it) that he was already married before he killed Abel. However, that is not to say other sons and daughters of Adam & Eve had not already gone out and where living in this land, (in fact they must have been as Cain feared being killed).

Good questions. I will have a go at answering these as if you just asked me. So without looking anything up. 1. Dinosaurs where not discovered until the 19th century, therefore the word dinosaur is quite new. The bible mentions two types of creature in job, the Beamoth and the leviathan, both of which are detailed descriptions that fit dinosaurs as we know them. This was written thousands of years prior to dinosaurs being discovered, so Job had either seen them or had a memory of them. 2. What is spiritual energy and why would it need to turn into an atom? There is the spiritual world and there is the physical world. We all have a spirit, we can feel it, but it is not physical. The spiritual can sometimes be seen without it needing to become physical. 3. Like the above, heaven at the moment is either in the spiritual realm or simply hidden from view. The universe is often described in the bible as the 'heavens'(as is the sky), but it is not 'the' heaven. 4. God has no beginning. Now, many may disagree with me on the next thing I say, but Jesus did have a beginning. The bible says 'in the beginning was the word, and the word became flesh' (Christ). When that was though would be out of the current human perception of time. 5. God was calling his people (the Israelites) to be separate from everyone else (Gentiles). These rules only applied to them. Tattoos where not so much a fashion like today, they represented people's worship of pagan deitys. The same with beards. The cutting here is likely speaking of cutting into shapes that represent other gods. The Egyptians did this and pharaoh belived he was God. 6. Simple this one. The bible says Adam and Eve had many children. They grew up, moved on and gave birth to more children and so on. As people lived a lot longer (hundreds of years), by the time Cain was exiled, the population would have grown tremendously. Hope these help and feel free to ask more questions about what I have said.

The 'me, me'me' mentality on social media you speak of, is, I would say, a sign of the times. Jesus said people would become lovers of themselves and really we are seeing this at an unprecedented level, with endless selfies, boasting, 'braggies', self-important videos etc. It has been evident that a side effect of all of this is a rise in depression. People see other peoples Facebook etc., which only shows the best bits of their life, with a huge helping of exaggeration, filtered photos and 'hey my life is so great' attitude, then compare the reality of their life to a false image. They then get depressed as the feel they are missing out, so in turn create their own false image, and so the cycle continues. I work in fitness, and the amount of false imagery and misleading advice I see on fb shocks me. Guys and girls who say they look like they do due to ‘clean eating’ and ‘training hard’, all jacked up on steroids in reality. Lies that play on others fears (fears of not looking good enough). The reason you have lost interest, is because your sprit knows it is full of falsehood and lies. And Jesus said you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

What The_Patriot said

I really like this post as it highlights a genuine problem that many just overlook. Rob Bell posed the same question in his book 'Love Wins' (yeah I know, not everyones choice of reading), that the bible seems to state many diffrent ways you can be saved (through saying this and that, being married to a believer etc). Well, if I had to put it simply it would be this. Believe that that Jesus is the son of God, who became flesh in order to die on the cross, and rose from the dead for the slavtion and reconcilation of the world. Romans 10:9 puts it perfecly. What you actually say does not matter. It's about the heart, but verbalising it gives life to it. (prov 18:21) "If you confess with your mouth 'Jesus is lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved'.

I try to avoid Facebook and other social media if possible but when I scrolled my 'newsfeed' today (and I use the term 'news' loosely) there was yet another of those 'prank videos', this one of a guy doing 'pranks' on his girlfriend, only the pranks are really just abuse. Including spraying her with a chemical fire hydrant whilst she is sleeping, squirting tomato ketchup on her whilst she is getting ready in the bathroom, and best of all, slamming a shopping cart into her at the hardware store so she falls into the tools on display in front of bewildered shoppers. Now, it's obvious to me this is all a set up, and she is in on it. But what I don't get is how this passes for entertainment and laughs. He even titles the video 'How to be the perfect boyfriend'. Many of the replies worryingly say how funny the video is and what a great couple they make, as if a. this was real and b. if it is real, his actions are funny and acceptable. This is more a rant than a topic but I despair at the current and growing tend of increasingly violent and made up videos for narcissists to just get 'likes' and views. How low we have come when it is celebrated as entertainment and some are seen as on-line 'celebrities'. And how long before this culture becomes accepted behaviour for the younger generation who watch them all the time.

Regardless of if one is a Christian or not, this is a messed up, controlling relationship. It is highly unlikely the man will kill himself, he is just using that as a form of control. It has to finish, there is no healthy basis too continue this 'relationship' at all.

Am I right in thinking then that If that is the case, then this thread should not have started as it is not a question. But if someone does post a scripture, is not right to discuss the meaning of it for others to read? Or should it be removed?

This is common sense really. Don't walk across a train track when the red light is signalling. Don't jump in water if you don't know how deep it is (or can't swim). Don't drive a car you know is faulty. Don't drink and drive, and so on. If you feel it's a message for you , just keep yourself focused and watch out for anything that gives a sence that you should not do it.