Jayne

Brother, why NOT listen to definitions from reputable sources? I don't care how you define the word. I defined the way the average person does and how the compilers of dictionaries and lexicons do. If you don't care for that definition, that's fine with me. There is a phrase for defining words by what they are not. Definition by negation. What is hard? Not soft like a marshmallow. What is quiet? Not loud like bullhorn. I'm content with what Webster says. If you are not - I'm content with that too.

Dr. Stanley was so very powerful in his teachings. I watch his reruns now.

I'm in the minority here at Worthy, but I believe in a Rapture of the church and then the final judgment.

I'm not talking about the final judgment - the final seven years. And grace will still be available then. The book of Revelation says that - even though it will be terrible - more people than can be counted will be saved. Evangelized by an angel, two witnesses, and 144,000 Jewish males that God saves for that purpose. They will not live long it says - martryed for their new faith, but they will be recipients of God's grace. I'm talking about now. America is in horrible shape. Sex trafficking, babies eaten by satanists, homosexuality and transgenderism is the NORM in the eyes of far too many, the rise of terrible crime, and the moral breakdown of the family and the church. And the church? It's on the online forums talking about how wicked everyone ELSE is. The church is silent about itself and tolerant of sin in its own walls. Romans 1 gives the picture of a people in the final spiral. God has given us over to our own debased mind. Just as Romans 1 says. Just as God in the Old Testament gave up many nations, including Israel, over to their horrible sins, he has done that with America now. Good is proclaimed as evil. Evil is proclaimed as good. That's everywhere - everyday. What is a woman? Why can't the people say so? How did we GET here?!? Read Romans 1. Read Habakkuk. God WILL inevitably remove his hand of protection from a people who grossly turn their back on him. The only hope is that while there is breath in our mouths - there is hope to be saved. But dear miss muffett, America has been under the judgment of God for a while. I believe that just as Ninevah, people can turn around and turn to God.

Oh, who is it that you think has no sin? Sin comes from self-centeredness.

Oh, you think the persecution of the church and Christians will be a breeze? I'm not talking about Christ's return or the Tribulation. I'm talking about now. We are under the judgment of God now and if CHRISTIANS don't get their act together - then there will be NO revival. Christians sin JUST like everyone else.

I believe we are on the cusp of one and I have felt that way a long time. And it isn't going to be pleasant.

My honest thinking is that everyone can see it when they look in the mirror.

Irrational? Meaningless? Logically Absurd? Well, you'll have to take that up with Daniel Webster and a whole lot of other people who compiled dictionaries and lexicons. I didn't make that definition up. They did. And I don't think that defining something by what it is "not" is necessarily in error. Good gravy!

@other one I watched the whole thing. I've known that this type of thing exists in America and I have always wondered why God is sparing us. We are so FAR beyond the pale of what we think of as evil. It reminds me SO much of Daniel 10 where we learn that demonic forces rule in the "air" over the nations. And the angel bringing Daniel the correct meaning of his vision had to spend 21 days combatting those demonic forces. And if Michael the archangel had not helped him, the demonic forces would have kept the angel from Daniel. I pray for these children - if I said every day, I'd be lying - but almost every day. It makes me want to vomit. I want to see those documentaries.

Ya'll need to go back and read the OP. He didn't ask about secular humanism or secularism. He didn't ask about situational ethics. He asked why is the word secular associated with being bad. Secular, all by itself, means not religious. Just because something is not of a religious purpose does not make it bad. Singing "Happy Birthday" to someone is not religious. Is that bad? Paul has a secular job in the Bible. He was a tentmaker. Was that bad?

Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. That's Angola. In my state. It does and has housed the worst of the worst. Death row included. When a new warden came along in the early 1980's, Burl Cain, he found them fighting and killing each other. To make a long story short, he said that it was his belief that people with no moral nature do the things these men do. He decided he needed to moralize the prison and he believed that the quickest way to do that was to bring Christianity to the prison. Today, the men have lots of meaningful work to do. Planting, growing, harvesting. Do they like it? Probably not on some hot days. And they have vocational school where trades are learned. A seminary. Someone has to preach in those churches housed inside. Lots of churches have services each day. They have rodeos open to the public, a radio station, and the majority are free to roam the premises. There is a Malachi Club where inmates with children on the outside learn how to be as good a father as they can from the inside. They don't want their sons and daughters becoming what they were. Some learn leathercraft work. They make Bible covers, belts, and more and are allowed to sell them. It's a little city. They are taught and given the best life possible in their circumstance. Many men there say that they are not the same person. Yet.... Most will not leave. Being a Christian wipes out God's wrath, but not the natural consequences one must face. Warden Cain once told the story that there was a man on death row and his time was coming. The man had been saved and was a genuine Christian. Warden Cain talked to him a lot before he was executed. He asked him how he felt about it all now that he was saved and had been saved a while. The man said it was the right thing to do - to carry out the sentence. He knew he was saved, but he also knew and was afraid that he might kill again. He was content to go to God. He asked for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for his last meal. Warden Cain took the bread, peanut butter, and jelly himself and between the two of them, they made and ate four sandwiches. Warden Cain keeps the half eaten jars in his office so as to not forget that man nor forget his mission at Angola. Most of these men aren't getting out. They don't NEED to be let out. Some have sentences of 30-40 years and might get out. Some never will. But the compassion of Warden Cain has transformed the place and their lives.

As you say, LOOK at King David. The New Testament does call him by name as a man after God's own heart - meaning that his own sin disgusted him and he repented heavily every time. BUT, BornAgain490 - David, his family, his children, his concubines, his warriors, and the entire nation paid a price for David's sins. From the 13th chapter of 2 Samuel to the end of the book, chapter 24 - David and everyone under his kingdom paid consequence after consequence after consequence. It isn't a pleasant read. And then at the beginning of 1 Kings - David dies weak. God did not pat David on the head and say, "I forgive you - just run along". God, in his mercy, forgave David, but the prices he paid were terrible. We can't say God forgives and ignore the fact that God is just.

Let me understand you. You believe the word secular to mean "opposed to the church". "Opposed" as in fighting against or "opposed" as in not religious.

One would think, wouldn't one.

The OP said..... "We think they deserve to go to jails and even to go the electric chairs! So, it is important that we do not look with disdain at the murderer, rapist or mobster but we look at them with compassion, instead. We also ought not to give to them what we think they deserve--jail or electric chair but our compassions." I'm thinking of the man I knew who sodomized all six of his children and a nephew and brutally beat a nephew. I had to work with some of those children. It was a nightmare beyond belief. God could have saved him. That would have been great. But he's dead from a heart attack. All I'm asking the OP is - is she saying what I think she is saying that these people should not go to jail that we should just love on them. Her words confuse me. I wish she would come back and explain what she means.

[nevermind, I erased my post - it's only going to fall on deaf ears]

Galatians 6:7 - "Whatever a man sows, that will he REAP!" Sister, just because God forgives someone like you and me or forgives a serial murderer or serial rapist, does not mean that consequences here on this earth don't have to be paid. Yes, God can save anyone and we should pray for these people, but even if they turn to Christ - that's not a get-out-of-jail-free card as you are claiming it is. I had a terrible boss once. If I went to her office, cursed her up and down and told her all of her terrible faults - I would have to pay a HUGE consequence. I would be fired! And deservedly so. She might forgive me and I might repent and God might forgive me for it, but I would still be fired. God forgives and we pray for salvation of the worst of the worst. But consequences for actions must still be paid. I knew a serial rapist once. Personally. He sodomized ALL of his children. Four girls and two boys. He sodomized a nephew. He beat another nephew until he was permanently deaf in one ear. I prayed for him. But if he were saved - do you believe he should have been let out of jail? That's what it sounds like you are saying.

One can backslide. The Bible speaks of that. We are saved, but still live in this body of flesh. That's no excuse to backslide, but things happen to us and sometimes we respond the wrong way. The Bible is CLEAR that salvation cannot be taken away, lost, or perished. To say that we can lose our salvation is saying that our deeds and misdeeds are greater than the blood of Christ. [1] John 5:24 = "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." [2] John 10:27-30 = "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one" [3] Romans 8:1 = "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." [4] Romans 8:38-39 = "For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." [5] John 6:37 = "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." While we live in this mortal and corruptible body, we will make mistakes in heart and deed. But as the Bible says in 1 John 1:9 = "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Not absurd at all. My therapist tells me to do everything in small bites - just don't stop.

I love to read. But since my mother died three years ago, I have had depression/anxiety flare ups and one of my symptoms is that I have trouble finishing anything. Finishing cleaning the kitchen, reading a book, preparing for Sunday School, and I have to make a lot of lists to make sure I pay the bills and gas up the car, etc. I would love to start reading again.

I'll speak slowly as I'm in a foul temperament right now. [1] YES! That was a biological female being interviewed. Why the mockery of her? [2] "BlabberBuzz?!?!?" Yeah, that sounds like a real credible video source to me. Not. I Googled it. Can't find anything but people complaining they can't get rid of emails from this FAR right video source whose sole purpose is to infest spam-laden content and ads to people's emails. [3] Where was gospel to this woman? Oh, yeah. We don't do that. We just post videos mocking people.

You said in your first post that public schools are administrated by the devil and now you say that the devil's domain is for unbelievers only. So does that make me an unbeliever in your eyes? I guess in your logic it does. This forum is no different than any other forum I've ever been on.

Sigh.....that's all I can say.

????? I was a student in the 60's and 70's in Louisiana and was never introduced to that. I never even heard of it until I was in college and in 1983 - my teacher's class had ONE lesson on it and we all thought it was most ridiculous. After I graduated and taught for 32 years, I can truthfully say that no curriculum I taught from ever required it. None. I guess it skipped Louisiana.