Simon Hall

I agree with you, OneLight, we shouldn’t just blindly accept everything everyone tells us. Otherwise we would probably believe something different every day. And that is why, learning from historical facts, that Christmas, Easter and Birthdays are in fact from pagan origins, and by reading the word of God and learning that we are not meant to follow those things, the Lord revealed that truth to me, of which once I was blind. But If I didn’t read the history of the pagan traditions listed above, as it was put in my heart to read, then I wouldn’t have seen the contravention to God’s word in following those traditions. So, like I said to kwikphilly, “In previous posts, I have proven by scripture, which you say is the “God inspired, God Breathed, Infallible, Irrefutable Word”, that we are not meant to follow such traditions. Now please show me where, by historical fact, that Christmas, Easter and Birthday celebrations are in fact not pagan by origin, and in fact originated from God, and show me where in the Word of God that we are told to follow the ungodly traditions of men. Please show me, kwik, and don’t change the subject. If you want me to know the truth, which is why you’re here at Worthy Christian Forums, right, to share in the truth with others? Then please show me the truth, as I have you.” Now I ask the same of you, OneLight. I am either right or I am wrong. If I am following something that is not true, then please show me the truth. It would be amiss of me to not want to follow the Lord with all of my mind, heart and soul, wouldn't it? “To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing;’ and don’t know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked; I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may become rich; and white garments, that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me. He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.” (Rev 3:14-22 WEB)

Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole lump? (1Co 5:6 WEB) Don’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever? What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you. I will be to you a Father. You will be to me sons and daughters,’ says the Lord Almighty.” (2Co 6:14-18 WEB)

So, OneLight, if you won’t accept what is right or wrong from another person, then why should anyone that comes to this forum, or anyone you speak to in your daily life, listen to what you have, to say? Haven’t you shared the truth with others, hoping for the Lord, through your words, to show them what is right versus what is wrong? Have you never learnt from another person, or only through the Holy Spirit? Does that mean that children then shouldn’t listen to their parents when their parents try to teach them right and wrong? If everyone went by your motto, then no one would be listening to anyone else. Then why have a forum at all? The apostles would have been wasting their time, even though Jesus therefore said to them again, “Peace be to you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you”. Based on your motto, you would have rejected everything the apostles taught, therefore rejecting the Lord himself. You say in your profile, “I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share”. So, which is it, OneLight? You can't have it both ways.

I am not offended, kwik. The only reason I can see why you seem to think that I am “easily personally offended”, as you put it, is because I state the truth without sugar coating it. And what specifically will you be praying for me for, kwik? One thing is for sure though, and that is, historical facts prove that Christmas, Easter and Birthdays, among other human traditions, were in fact of pagan origin. In previous posts, I have proven by scripture, which you say is the “God inspired, God Breathed, Infallible, Irrefutable Word”, that we are not meant to follow such traditions. Now please show me where, by historical fact, that Christmas, Easter and Birthday celebrations are in fact not pagan by origin, and in fact originated from God, and show me where in the Word of God that we are told to follow the ungodly traditions of men. Please show me, kwik, and don’t change the subject. If you want me to know the truth, which is why you’re here at Worthy Christian Forums, right, to share in the truth with others? Then please show me the truth, as I have you.

I think you're bursting your own bubble, kwik, because you've scanned over my post and picked out the tiniest little thing for which you have a comeback that you think makes my post null and void. The truth is not null and void because you try to knock it down with your slight of words. For those who are meant to see and receive the truth as I have posted, they will see it and receive as the Lord wills. If you are not one of those people, there is nothing I can do, or want to do about that.

No, OneLight, I am not defensive. I was just stating the truth of how I saw the following question you posed: May I ask if you are a Jehovah Witness? Just trying to understand why you believe celebrating the day someone was born is evil and will make God jealous. It just seemed to me that you wanted to put the truth of what I posted in a box, so you could fob it off. I may have been wrong in my assumption, but I don't believe so. In regards to your second question above: The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it? I, Jehovah, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings. (Jer 17:9-10 ASV) I believe the word of God, OneLight. While I am thankful that the Lord judges the heart and searches the mind and that He gives to us according to our ways, it is documented there in verse 9 that the heart is deceitful and exceedingly corrupt. It also asks “who can know it?”. Until the Lord reveals to man the true nature of his own heart, that person has no idea of the depth of the wickedness of it. So, have you read and/or listened to the 2 links and the PDF that were in my last post? You know, the ones about the history of Christmas, Easter and birthdays. What did you think about those historical facts and how they stack up against the word of God? I look forward to seeing what you have to say about those after you've been through them.

No, OneLight, I am not a Jehovah’s Witness, but I am a witness for Jehovah. There is no room for the truth in whatever little box you want to put it in. The truth and understanding has nothing to do with denominations. The truth has to do with the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether you see it or not, the bible is very clear about not following the traditions of men, and documented historical fact proves that Christmas, Easter and birthdays, among other things, are traditions of an ungodly people. If anyone genuinely wants to follow the Lord, and not their own path, then they will read and listen to the following links prayerfully. The History Of Easter.pdf is at the bottom of the page. The History of Birthdays The History of Christmas Not keeping or partaking in the ungodly traditions of men, in and of themselves, does not make a person a true follower of Christ, alone. But it is a small part of taking up the cross and following Him. It’s part of dying to self. The information in those 3 links is based on historical facts. I have nothing to do with any of the websites where those three links came from. I do not know the people that wrote the information at the links, and I had not heard of any of them before I found the links through Google. Also, I have not read anything else on these websites, therefore I don’t espouse to anything else they have written that you may find on there. These links are solely for the purpose of proving proof by historical fact that Christmas, Easter and birthday celebrations are not God given traditions, and in fact, are the machinations of a people that don’t love the Lord, but just want to live to please themselves and worship their false gods. There are many such writings on the internet for those who genuinely want the truth. It’s the Lord, not me, that says He is a jealous God and it’s the Lord that commands us to stay away from false idols. The fact that people so vehemently want to hold onto things that clearly have their roots in ungodliness, worshipping their flesh nature, just goes to prove where their hearts lie. Just try and take a person’s right to celebrate Christmas, Easter or birthdays off them and see what ugly beast rears its head. There was an error that I made in one of my earlier posts where I said “Secondly, don't you find it interesting that throughout the whole bible, there are only two birthday celebrations, and both of those for pagan royalty?”. A friend of mine has rightfully reminded me since my post, that there was in actual fact another mention of birthday celebrations in the bible. This one even more damning for those who say they follow the Lord, yet want to hold onto their birthday celebrations. There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job. That man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil. There were born to him seven sons and three daughters. His possessions also were seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred female donkeys, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the children of the east. His sons went and held a feast in the house of each one on his birthday; and they sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. It was so, when the days of their feasting had run their course, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned, and renounced God in their hearts.” Job did so continually. (Job 1:1-5 WEB) Verse 1 says “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job. That man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil.” Job didn’t even go to his own children’s birthdays. On the contrary, each time his children celebrated one, when the partying was over, he would offer burnt offerings to God to try and hopefully cover their sin. If birthday celebrations were acceptable to God, don’t you think that Job would have been at his own children's birthdays? But no, he stayed well away, knowing that birthday celebrations were in fact ungodly. And where were all of Job’s children when they died? It turns out that on that day they were celebrating in the oldest brother’s house, and that day was more than likely the oldest brother's birthday based on verse 4 from the previous quote, communicating a reason why they would get together to eat and to drink wine. It fell on a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, that there came a messenger to Job, and said, “The oxen were plowing, and the donkeys feeding beside them, and the Sabeans attacked, and took them away. Yes, they have killed the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, there also came another, and said, “The fire of God has fallen from the sky, and has burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, there came also another, and said, “The Chaldeans made three bands, and swept down on the camels, and have taken them away, yes, and killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, there came also another, and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, and behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young men, and they are dead. I alone have escaped to tell you.” Then Job arose, and tore his robe, and shaved his head, and fell down on the ground, and worshiped. He said, “Naked I came out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. Yahweh gave, and Yahweh has taken away. Blessed be Yahweh’s name.” In all this, Job didn’t sin, nor charge God with wrongdoing. (Job 1:13-22 WEB) Birthdays, even if someone is not given to drinking much wine, is a fleshly celebration that is all about “ME”. This is my day, people are going to wish me happy birthday, people are going to give me presents to honour me on my day, I am going to get the attention, the focus is on me because this is my day. You could be as wicked a person that has ever lived, yet on your birthday, the cake and candles come out, people honour you with their lips, even singing you a happy birthday song. How many people in this world are horrid, rebellious, ungodly people, yet on that one day a year, oh how they get honoured. Many parents do it with their rebellious children. Their children are ungodly, disrespectful little beasts, but once again on that day, they get their presents and their cake and candles, they get all their special wishes, yet to turn around and cry and chuck a tantrum because they didn’t get the present they wanted. I am not saying this is the case with everyone, but I am saying that birthdays for everyone are a day of having themselves honoured. How many husbands abuse their wives, how many wives abuse their husbands, how many children disrespect their parents, how many parents abuse their children, but yet, come their birthdays, or Father’s Day, or Mother’s Day, or Christmas, or Easter, or Valentine’s Day, for example, those same obnoxious people are given a place of stature and honour. Many times it is given to them out of fear and guilt, and out of pure tradition. Not every time, but on many, many occasions it is like that. People honour each other in their wickedness, yet the Lord calls on people to “repent of their sinfulness and wicked ways”. The world and its worldly ways does exactly the opposite of what the Lord does and the opposite of what He commands those who are His, to do also. Whether it be birthdays, Christmas, Easter, or any other ungodly man made tradition, the Lord calls us out of those things, He calls us out of following the world and He calls us to follow Him. “To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing;’ and don’t know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked; I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may become rich; and white garments, that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me. He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.” (Rev 3:14-22 WEB) The History Of Easter.pdf

SH, I followed your link to a very legalistic Statement of Doctrine where I found such as this... "The religious holidays of the world – Christmas and Easter - and birthdays are not of God. He never thought of or instituted them. They serve no good purpose, except to entrap and judge insincere and false believers. (That Devilish Spirit of Christmas, Diabolical Doctrine: Christmas Is a Biblical Christian Celebration & Diabolical Doctrine: The Keeping of Easter)" http://www.thepathoftruth.com/statement-of-doctrine.htm There's some pretty crazy stuff on that page. Firstly, Yowm, sorry for communicating to you outside of the rules of this Forum. Secondly, don't you find it interesting that throughout the whole bible, there are only two birthday celebrations, and both of those for pagan royalty. The other interesting thing about that is that on both of those occasions someone was put to death. John the Baptist on one occasion in the new testament and the Baker that was put to death by Pharaoh in the old testament. Not anywhere in the bible does it mention any believer having a birthday celebration, not even Jesus. Isn't it interesting that no one knows the birthdate of our Lord and Saviour. Surely that must give us some things to consider if we really want to walk in the truth. It would be amiss of any one of us to overlook the inferences of what these things could possibly mean. As for Christmas and the things used to celebrate it, for example Christmas trees, tinsel, holly and mistletoe, just to name a few, all have their roots in pagan festivities. Isn't that mixture that the Lord warns against? Exodus 34:11-16 MKJV (11) Observe that which I command you this day. Behold! I drive out before you the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite. (12) Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the people of the land where you go, lest it be for a snare in the midst of you. (13) But you shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their sacred poles. (14) For you shall worship no other god. For Jehovah, Whose Name is Jealous, is a jealous God; (15) lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice to their gods, and call you, and you eat of his sacrifice; (16) and lest you take from their daughters for your sons, and their daughters go whoring after their gods and make your sons go whoring after their gods. Even if Christmas seems okay to the average person, if it is not of God, then it can't be good. And it would not be okay for His people. Things to seriously consider if we want to be pleasing to God. I used to celebrate Christmas, Easter and birthdays, but not any more. Even if celebrating Jesus' birthday was an edict from Him, which it's not, how do you think he would take it, if His people were mixing His day with pagan celebrations and traditions. He says He is a jealous God. He also says " a little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump". No ungodly mixture is good. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty." (2Co 6:14-18 ESV) The Lord also says Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. (Mat 12:30 ESV).

Thanks for the heads up Steve.

He answered them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ "For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things." He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother;’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban, that is to say, given to God";’ then you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother, making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this." (Mar 7:6-13 WEB). No boogeyman pagan condemnation here, Yowm. Just the truth. Maybe you should read the links prayerfully, with consideration for the Lord, and not just look over them. If you don't actually read them, and there not very long, like it says above, you are just looking for ways to hold on to your traditions. Christmas and Easter are just two of many traditions that are clearly not of God.

Did you even read the links, Yowm? If you had, you couldn't possibly have come up with such a substanceless response. Or maybe you could.

There are many man mad vain traditions that aren't from God. Below is just a couple. Read the links. CHRISTMAS EASTER

I agree with you, Pierre, and the bible does as well. You don’t get much clearer than that. The creation and everything in it, including humanity, was subject to vanity by God’s will. We had no say in it. No man has free will, because man did not create himself. The moment that we were created by something else, it goes without saying, that we couldn’t possibly have free will. Where was our say in being created? So if the Lord created us without our say, wouldn’t it go without saying that He does whatever He wants with us at any time? Where was Judas’ free will to betray Jesus? He didn’t have one. Even though Judas, sinful by nature, had already been stealing from the purse, notice that Satan only entered Judas after Jesus gave him the bread. Jesus even commanded him to go and do what he had to do. Judas had to do it, there is no free will or free choice or any other kind of choosing in that. Judas couldn’t even reject the bread that the Lord handed him. Think about it. Jesus said the one whom I give the bread to, not the one who will choose to take it out of my hand if I hold my hand open with the bread in it, in the middle of the table. Even though Jesus could have done that as well if He wanted to and Judas still would have taken the bread, because it was already written. If Jesus was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world, doesn’t it stand to reason that someone was predestined from before the foundation of the world to betray Him, and even kill Him. Jesus didn’t just show up at some random time in history and hope that someone, someday would want to betray Him. The Lord is sovereign. He determines all things. It's not our choice if we are to be a vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor. It’s the Lord’s choice. And if a person says “I will not be a vessel of dishonor despite what God thinks”, then you are a heretic and antichrist. Because, as Jesus said, and so must we, “not my will, Father, but Your will be done”. Jeremiah didn’t have any say in whether he was going to be God’s prophet or not, or what God was going to accomplish through him. Jeremiah was simply chosen and formed by God to accomplish God’s will. No human free will there. What about Saul, who became the apostle Paul? Does anyone think that he was calling out to the Lord to be converted, on the road to Damascus. On the contrary, in his mind, he was setting out to persecute more Christians. Saul, soon to become Paul, had no choice and no free will either. If you are the Lord’s chosen vessel as Paul was, do you think you can choose. Even Moses tried to fob God off, but God wasn’t having a bar of it. We all know that in the end Moses went and did what he was told to do. Now there are those that say “yes, we know that the Lord is sovereign, but He still gave us free will”, but those who say that, don’t truly believe that the Lord is sovereign at all. Let’s say for one second that eternal torment does exist, not that it does, but for the sake of this next argument let’s say it does. We have on one hand, God, who people say is sovereign and all powerful, and on the other hand we have Satan, who people say, while being very powerful is not as powerful as God. Yet, when it comes down to the crux of most modern religious beliefs, nearly all those people who say that they believe God is omnipotent and more powerful than the devil, actually believe that the devil is going to influence more people and trick more people from the history of the world in to going to this place of eternal punishment called hell, than what an ALL POWERFUL GOD can influence or convince them to believe in Jesus Christ and to choose eternity with Him in a place called heaven. It’s like saying that if the Lord and Satan were to have a debate, Satan would win. WHAT A LOAD OF HOGWASH. Saul truly believed with all of his heart that he was serving the one and only True Living God. Even willing to torture and kill people for the god he believed in, as are some Muslims doing right now. But, when the Lord determined the time according to His will, He revealed Himself to Saul in no uncertain terms, so there could be no doubt and no debate. And as the Lord did for Saul and has done for others over the history of the world as proven in the bible, so He will do for all men. And He will not be finished until He has every last sheep in His fold. Now that’s the Good News!!! If God says He will have all men to be saved, then all men will be saved. Otherwise that would make Him a liar and a scoundrel, instead of the All Powerful, All Loving God that He is. Absolutely Good News!!! For those whose time it is to have ears to hear and eyes to see. Contending for the Lord Jesus Christ. Simon Hall