BobRyan

A great many Christians believe you should not take God's name in vain once you decide to be a Christian. Many also believe you should cease with child pornography, prostitution.. working as a hit man.. torturing the saints during the Spanish inquisition... once you are converted. Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7 James said that "dead faith" is the faith that produces nothing. We probably both agree on this point. But the born-again saint in Romans 8:4-9 is contrasted with the lost person this way.. "The mind set on the flesh does NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Thus the saved and the lost are contrasted in that chapter. Perhaps you agree with this as well. The Bible teaches that we are saved by placing our trust in Christ, period. Anyone who receives Christ's death, burial and resurrection as full-payment for their sins is saved. Even childlike faith is enough to save a person. But that does not mean you can live like that devil and "stay saved". "I forgave you ALL That DEBT!!" - Matt 18 I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

True. The act of obedience to even an animal-sacrifice LAW in the OT on the part of Able was not a sign of "trying to earn heaven by works" rather even Hebrews 11 points out that Noah had a religion of "righteousness by faith" and God points out that the "Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. God was not giving commands in the OT to get people to sin or to reject the Gospel in any way. Hopefully we can agree on this basic point. True. True today and true in the OT. Thus in Matthew 17 we have both Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory - BEFORE the cross. Thus in Hebrews 11 it is the OT giants of faith that are held up before the NT Christians as "models". Thus we find in 1 Cor 10:2-5 "they all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that ROCK was Christ" speaking of the OT saints. Nothing in the Bible says "once the Messiah comes don't worry about trying not to take God's name in vain" .. Also in Isaiah 66:23 we are told that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

True and that point is made in Hebrews 10 just as you point out... but it is not the point of Col 2. In Col 2 Paul specifically attacks the idea of "making stuff up" of judging others based on "things you make up". Christ also condemns that in Matthew 7 before the cross. .It is "no change" pre-cross or post-Cross. But the Hebrews 10 teaching IS about a change after the cross - the "end of sacrifices and offerings" -- specifically animal sacrifices and the earthly priesthood of Hebrews 7. That looks like you -- quoting God in Exodus 20 - then trying to spin it as some sort of command to "do evil" as if not taking God's name in vain and honoring God's Sabbath were evil laws meant to lead man into more sin. surely that is not your argument ... right??

Hi Hazard -- I am not annoyed and I don't take anything personally -- because I agree with you that everyone has a right to their POV and should not be told they do not have that right. I for one fully believe in that statement -- even when I state my own view from the Bible in a rather direct manner. The Jews did not make up anything in the Bible (2 Tim 3:16, 2Peter 1:19-21) - God gave them many shadows in animal sacrifices pointing to Christ so we have things in 1 Cor 5 of the form "Christ our Passover has been sacrificed". These sacrifices were shadows pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ. They were also visual aides illustrating key Gospel themes.

All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer what?? 2 Tim 3:12 3 Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 2:3 And remember that "discussion" such as on this board is in fact the "IDEAL" scenario because on the 500th celebration of the Protestant Reformation nobody here is being burned alive for holding to the Bible above the traditions of man.

You live on a "round" planet right? International date line and all..

That post is a perfect example of the self-conflicted argument that must be constructed to sustain the arguments against God's Sabbath Commandment. For example it argues that we are not to judge -- only to flat out condemn Sabbath Keeping as if it were paganism and loss of salvation. PROOF: 1. The quote from Galatians 4 makes no mention at all of Sabbath keeping - it is in fact Paul flat out condemning gentile Christians that have reverted back to keeping pagan holy days... Paul argues that to keep even one of them is a rejection of Christianity - a rejection of the Gospel. 2. AND YET - in Romans 14 Paul argues that NO ONE is to judge or condemn any Christian that keeps one of the Bible-APPROVED holy days. "one man observes one day above another while another man observes THEM ALL " Romans 14 <Thus in the actual Bible - all pagan holy days are condemned - and all Bible approved holy days -- (see Lev 23) are defended> Notice all the Gal 4 "details" you left out -- as would be needed - to make the case you made in your post. Gal 4 8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. Paul is condemning their return to paganism... observing pagan days... your bait-and-switch swaps in one of God's TEN commandments in the place of "paganism" in Gal 4 ... in order to get the NT to condemn it in the that the doctrine against God's commandment "needs" but does not "have" in Galatians 4. Notice that D.L. Moody, Andy Stanley, C.H Spurgeon, Baptist Confession of Faith, Westminster Confession of Faith... and many many others all claim to KEEP the Sabbath commandment (a bent Sabbath that points to week day one.. and not "The Seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God" Ex 20:10) - but your argument above condemns them alike for daring to refuse all out war against the entire concept of Sabbath -- daring to call their observance some sort of compliance with the Word of God on that point. This perfectly illustrates Christ's argument against the traditions-of-man invented to wage war against even one of the Commandments of God - in Mark 7:6-13

Agreed. The Bible is what matters ... not the forged and fraudulent documents in Catholicism or their traditions-over-the-Bible logic. That is why I keep pointing the discussion back to the Bible

Hint: New Covenant - made with "The House of Israel and the house of Judah" says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" ... read it in Jeremiah 31:31-33 Read it "Again" as it is "unchanged" and verbatim .. in Hebrews 8:6-10 And notice that Jesus reminds us "the Law of God matters" in Mark 7:6-13 Thus it is "still a sin" -- to take God's name in vain...even for NT Christians. (As we all already know) - because "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 even for NT Christians "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 Gentiles to keep the Sabbath Isaiah 56:1-8 in fact ALL MANKIND to Keep the Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 Bible details matter.

Recall that in Justin Martyr’s day.. no internet… no Pope Justin Martyr was born in Flavia Neapolis circa 100 A.D., and converted to Christianity sometime around 130 A.D. A Christian apologist, he taught and defended Christianity in Asia Minor and at Rome. He suffered martyrdom in Rome about 165 A.D. Certainly Justin Martyr claims to totally ignore God's commandment - when it comes to the Sabbath. No question about his position opposing the Commandment of God. Paul warns us of such things in Acts 20 25 “And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. 26 Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. I prefer the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 when it comes to Justin's suggestion that Christians ignore God's Commandment Mark 7 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. 7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’ 8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.” 9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” A truly sobering teaching from Christ - for any Bible-loving, Spirit-filled, new-birth, New Covenant Christian with the "Law of God written on the heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33 and a true love for the teaching of Christ. It would be very hard for such a Christian to turn a blind eye to the teaching of Christ just then. Very hard indeed!

We get this all the time from Catholics who prefer not to quote the Bible for their doctrine. IGNATIUS Starts with the writing of Ignatius - a pile of 15 forged fraudulent grossly interpolated documents that Calvin rejected and even the RCC admits that the majority are fakes/frauds/ ... that is 'the pile' that is the perfect "lead" for the argument against the Bible texts that promote God's own commandment. ============== Clement of Alexandria late 2nd century - early 3rd century. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria Titus Flavius Clemens (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215),[1] known as Clement of Alexandria to distinguish him from the earlier Clement of Rome, was a Christian theologian who taught at the Catechetical School of Alexandria. A convert to Christianity, he was an educated man who was familiar with classical Greek philosophy and literature. As his three major works demonstrate, Clement was influenced by Hellenistic philosophy to a greater extent than any other Christian thinker of his time, and in particular by Plato and the Stoics.[2] His secret works, which exist only in fragments, suggest that he was also familiar with pre-Christian Jewish esotericism and Gnosticism. In one of his works he argued that Greek philosophy had its origin among non-Greeks, claiming that both Plato and Pythagoras were taught by Egyptian scholars.[3] Among his pupils were Origen and Alexander of Jerusalem. Clement is usually regarded as a Church Father. He is venerated as a saint in Coptic Christianity, Ethiopian Christianity and Anglicanism. He was previously revered in the Roman Catholic Church, but his name was removed from the Roman Martyrology in 1586 by Pope Sixtus V on the advice of Baronius. ================== Justin Martyr Certainly Justin Martyr claims to totally ignore God's commandment - when it comes to the Sabbath. No question about his position opposing the Commandment of God. Paul warns us of such things in Acts 20 25 “And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. 26 Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. I prefer the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 when it comes to Justin's suggestion that Christians ignore God's Commandment

Now having said that - everyone does have free will and can ignore anything they wish in the Bible that appears to support God's Commandments, God's Ten Commandments.

Bible study? gladly. What Bible detail would you like in more depth?? Lack of referenceable substance in that statement can hardly be overstated. How odd then that you are posing on this subject thread. Paul never argues against the Ten Commandments - not even the Bible Sabbath. "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 TEN Commandments (all TEN) included in the MORAL Law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Hebrews 8:6-10... and we all know it. (Or at least the vast majority of even pro-Sunday scholars admit that obvious Bible detail)

The Bible says -- in Ex 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 that it was given to Adam and Eve - in Eden. No sin... no sacrifices. The Bible says - it is a day of rest Exodus 20:8-11 The Bible says - it is a day of "holy convocation" Lev 23:3 The bible says - no secular activity on that day -- Isaiah 58:13 The Bible says - from "Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth. The Bible says - the Bible is the "Word of God" Why insert that comment as if the "Bible is the Word of man"?? Your argument is "With the text" The Synagogues were all opened on the Sabbath. The Temple was never closed on the Sabbath in the actual Bible - you quote nothing from the Bible for your "temple is closed on Sabbath" -- so I assume you are asking us to abide by the "making stuff up" rule of the Jews after the Bible was written. Is that correct? Paul did not say that any kind of corporate/group collection was to be done on the first day of the week. He said "on the first day of the week let each one lay aside - put in store -- by himself" ... alone... at home.. Paul never stated that this was the Lord's Day or that it was a gathering of any kind. The whole reason we have this thread is to argue against the "making stuff up" model. Fires burned in the Temple on Sabbath and in the homes on Sabbath during the winter... you are "reaching" via extreme inference. "While not specifically mentioned in scripture" seems to be the "Theme" of your post points. Your quotes a primarily from the book "making stuff up" True -- there were annual feasts/Sabbaths/Observances that required both animal sacrifice and Jewish priest to observe and if you delete both the Jewish priesthood and the animal sacrifice - they have no liturgy at all for observance. That is what happens in HEbrews 7 - no more priests... and in Hebrews 10:4-12 no more animal sacrifices. More focus on "Bible detail" please. Less focus on "making stuff up" please.

The adjective "unknown" is an "insert" into the text of 1Cor 14 ... most translations show that with the italics for that word.

Interesting blog. “And he who overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations: ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron…’ – as I also have received from my Father.” The "Rod of Iron" is always a reference to judgment, condemnation, etc. The saints rule the wicked with a "rod of iron" during the 1000 years because they go over the books of record during that time and apportion out to the wicked - their portion of punishment due in the lake of fire event that happens at the end of the 1000 years.

1. Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Glory -- in Matthew 17 -- BEFORE the Cross. 2. The NEW Covenant is in the OLD Testament - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and is UNCHANGED in the NEW - see Hebrews 8:6-10 3. "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also" HEbrews 4:1 4. The Giants of faith held up before NT saints as examples to be followed - are all from the OT - Hebrews 11. 4. "The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 John 1:11-12 - Christ is not talking about evil angels in any part of scripture when he uses the term "sons of God" Indeed..

True ... I did say that. Yes they are. Both are - but the Rephaim only come along after the flood - from a particular line in Noah's descendants. No they aren't becausee as Christ said in Matt 22 -- Angels have no such function at all ... not even among themselves... let alone with other species. Yes they were. Not true at all. Because of what the actual Bible says -- because Noah was found righteous... not because "Noah was found short" or any such thing as is often "imagined". Fortunately that corrupt text is not included in the actual Word of God. Isn't it great to have the Word of God as our source -- "instead"? True - I did say that That is nonsense. God is not saying "they could eat food but they don't" -- as if God had made them with the biology to eat food - then said "never eat". Jesus did not say in Matt 22 "they choose not to Marry" rather He said that they are "like the angels" not "they act like an angel". He does not make it a matter of choice - but rather their function is changed to be the function of the angels in that regard - similar to them.. There are not "baby angels" no "mommy and daddy angels" according to Matt 22. All the angels are called "The sons of God" because each of them (like Adam) were made directly by God. True ... I did say that. 1. Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Glory -- in Matthew 17 -- BEFORE the Cross. 2. The NEW Covenant is in the OLD Testament - Jeremiah 31:31-33 and is UNCHANGED in the NEW - see Hebrews 8:6-10 3. "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also" HEbrews 4:1 4. The Giants of faith held up before NT saints as examples to be followed - are all from the OT - Hebrews 11. 4. "The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 John 1:11-12 - Christ is not talking about evil angels in any part of scripture when he uses the term "sons of God" All my statements were from the Holy Spirit - divine revelation. Some people on this thread are in fact guessing... I am not.

true we can be derailed by having the actual warning and heads-up ... like the Disciples when they wanted to exclude the children or the syrophoenecian woman. Still it was very handy to know enough to "get in the boat" and to know enough to "accept the Carpenter as being the Son of God"

It is true that the amount of knowledge one has is useless if at the end they have no connection to Christ. But Christ gives us this information about the future "for a reason". For the people before the flood - everything depended on what they would do with the warnings God sent through Noah. Living on the other side of the planet from Noah while claiming to be "spirit filled" and "informed" would not get them anywhere, when the rain started to fall. For the people living in John the baptizer's day - simply ignoring John and being "comforted" by the fact that they have the right church, and the right Bible - would get them nowhere.

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace " Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified Preferences are "nice" and everyone has them... but I prefer actual scripture for doctrine. Finding a text that does not challenge OSAS is not the same as finding one that refutes it. The test of a given proposal is in the area of the evidence that refutes it. Hint - Lucifer did not become Satan "because he was stronger than God" Adam did not fall and need salvation "because he was stronger than God" The warnings in the Bible are not about "beware of being stronger than God because then you might lose your salvation"

There were giants before the flood and Adam was likely the tallest and strongest since he had actually eaten of the Tree of Life - and all other humans (besides Eve) had not. But nothing like 90 feet. More like 12-15 http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/5-meter-tall-human-skeleton-unearthed-in-australia/ A little better "evidence" than "Mohammed said" -- but not much since this is from satire internet source.

Daniel 9 is a 70 week -- 490 year timeline. 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place All Bible timelines are contiguous -- they cannot be hacked,chopped,diced with gaps of undefined time inserted into them. This is irrefutable. Nope. The 69th week brings us to 27 A.D. the Baptism of Christ In the midst of that 70th week the Messiah is cut off - crucified that is when He put an end to sacrifices and offerings according to Hebrews 10. At the end of the 70th week - Stephen is stoned and Paul is anointed for ministry to the Gentiles All Bible timelines are contiguous -- they cannot be hacked,chopped,diced with gaps of undefined time inserted into them. This is irrefutable.

Daniel 9 states that it is a 70 week timeline not a 69 week timeline. All Bible timelines are contiguous -- they cannot be hacked,chopped,diced with gaps of undefined time inserted into them. This is irrefutable.

your own quote disproves your assertion. Paul is specifically talking about "the Gospel" and not credentialling, or some certifying body revoking his license to preach. And we all know it. He does not want to be disqualified from the Gospel after preaching the Gospel to others. Irrefutable.