JoshuasonFlower

In your opinion as one who promotes the OP article as worthy of respect but the dead not so, nor are they worthy of being identified as Christians when their murderers even did so, there are two kinds of Christians. The Orthodox Christian church and the Christians within are in Christ.

Orthodox Christians have Jesus.

I'd disagree that your remark about someone identifying as Christian and those questioning that provide that Christian an opportunity to give their testimony. The OP article in as much proves this by using the words you're using now quoted above. The article posted says just because the Coptic Orthodox Christians called themselves Christians doesn't mean we should assume they are Christian. Your prior remark that I addressed, If you are a truly born again believer, and someone questions your salvation, that should not offend you. If anything, it gives you an opportunity to give your testimony, doesn't pertain to the OP because those victims of the Muslim terrorist attack in the churches on Palm Sunday are dead now. Or horribly injured if any survived the blasts. Now, the article you posted stating we should mourn them but not assume they were Christian, rather than engendering sincere sympathy for lost sisters and brothers among members here, or the Net public that reads the original published at Pulpit & Pen affords a different style of assault on the Coptic Orthodox Christian dead. One that says, as you've made mention here, just because they said they were Orthodox Coptic Christians doesn't mean they were Christians. If being part of the authentic New Testament Church qualifies one to be respected in death as a fallen Christian, when even the Muslim terrorists who killed themselves so as to kill members of two different Coptic Orthodox Christian churches did so because they believed those church members were Christian, then there's no question the Coptic Orthodox Christians are Christian. Their church and the tenets pertaining to Grace, Faith, Redemption, Salvation, Baptism, are older than the denomination you are member of. That I'm member of. Furthermore, your observation actually violates what I read in the TOS here. Members here aren't permitted to claim someone here is not a Christian when they identify as that. If that charge is opportune for testimony, I'd think a site that represents as a ministry on the Net would not make it a violation of the member terms of service to question or doubt openly a member is a member of Christ's church. But this thread takes a broad brush and swipes it across all the dead in two churches in Egypt and says, that very thing. What opportunity is afforded people martyred for their faith to defend they died as Christians? What member of Christ's church with God's Holy Spirit sealed inside themselves, and with the wisdom of Holy God's only Son in their heart wherein we are told to show love to one another, charity, compassion, support, would insist first with this thread, that those who are dead and unable to speak for themselves could not testify they were Christians because they are not?

That's an invalid observation with regard to the content and message in the OP.

I admit I am a bit confused by your question. The thread title indicates it. The whole of the article shared by Shiloh357 states it. The Coptic Orthodox Christians that were the subject of the article were murdered in two different Orthodox churches in Egypt when ISIS terrorist suicide bombers entered in on Palm Sunday and blew themselves up. ISIS has said it intends to divide all of Egypt by killing the Christians. I don't know how you missed what was being claimed about the dead Coptic Christians in the churches. Mourn them but don't assume they're Christian? When they were blown apart by explosives in churches on Palm Sunday? That would be. Who did this?

Or, people just don't wish to participate in something that is already targeted by one person with intention to create a thread kill. US citizen detained by North Korea as Japanese ships join war games Amid rising tensions between North Korea and the US, Pyongyang has detained a US citizen, officials said on Sunday, bringing to three the number of Americans now being held in the country. As two Japanese navy ships joined a US carrier group for exercises in the western Pacific, North Korea threatened to sink a US aircraft carrier. “Our revolutionary forces are combat-ready to sink a US nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a single strike,” the Rodong Sinmun, the newspaper of the North’s ruling Workers’ party, said in a commentary. The paper likened the aircraft carrier to a “gross animal” and said a strike on it would be “an actual example to show our military’s force”. The commentary was carried on page three of the newspaper, after a two-page feature about the country’s leader, Kim Jong-un, inspecting a pig farm. Donald Trump ordered the USS Carl Vinson carrier strike group to sail to waters off the Korean peninsula in response to rising tension over the North’s nuclear and missile tests, and its threats to attack the US and its Asian allies. [More reading]

No, that was a misrepresentation of John Calvin's teachings. While he believed in infant baptism also, he did not teach that baptism saves. The question clarified in the first paragraph of the article linked below. Question: [TBC's] statement that John Calvin taught that Infant Baptism saves betrays a regrettable ... April 1, 2006

I agree with you. I've heard the shortening of that passage of scripture used on occasion. Typically in conversations wherein the OSAS argument is underway. Justification by faith alone isn't Biblical. Just as James imparts in total in that passage.

The last time Chrislovesfish2 was in our community was March 30th. The day after posting this thread. I thought this was a new posting when I saw it in the "Recent Posts" column. I'm holding Chrislovesfish2 in prayer being the topic of their first and only post breaks my heart and causes concern since they've not been back. If anyone would like to join in prayer for Chrislovesfish2 perhaps they will feel the love and realize the love of God surrounds them always so that they may live and grow in Christ. Just my thoughts for our hurting sister or brother, Chrislovesfish2.

James 2:14-26 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. King James Version (KJV) Public Domain

Do you know the origin of the western Christian doctrine of Imputed Righteousness as you understand it?

Firstly allow me to correct your presumption. I am not Orthodox. To continue. The claim you make beginning with your second sentence has been proven through the same resource to be false. I won't post that resource as it is being ignored as a fact source to correct error that insists on repeating itself so as to consistently misrepresent the actual facts of Orthodox Christian church faith and practice. Those tactics as employed are not biblical.

They introduce the allergen in pure form into your immune system in highly diluted doses so that your immune system builds a defense to the irritant.

I'll share this Orthodox Christian church resource to help answer your question brother. "Glossolalia" is the word in the article for tongues. Speaking in tongues - the Orthodox Christian viewpoint "This is the excerpt from the last part of the article for brevity as it is a long article. "The Orthodox Church does not rule out Glossolalia. She simply does not regard it as one of the important ones. Better to "speak five words that can be understood...than speak thousands of words in strange tongues." This is the Orthodox Christian viewpoint." "

This resource linked below has been posted before to refute the wording of opponents of the Orthodox Christian church that make inaccurate claims about the actual faith and practice of the Orthodox church. As exampled above. Many here may recall reading this before. This is excerpted from the article linked and sourced to the Orthodox Christian Church of America.

They are indeed. If you have time I'd advise availing yourself of the linked resources that have been provided by myself and I believe Ms. Noodles shared some as well, that are direct links to and sponsored by Orthodox Christian church. The Gospel of Salvation is upheld in the Orthodox church. Grace, faith, Jesus, repentance, regeneration, baptism, etc... Submersion baptism is typical in most Protestant churches. While pouring water over the head and forehead are often the baptismal methods in the Orthodox baptismal practice. Jesus tells us we cannot enter the kingdom unless we are born of spirit and water. To my knowledge there is no passage wherein it is said submersion baptism is requisite. Even taking time to attend an Orthodox service would allow you to see what transpires in worship of holy God and Jesus Christ. It is much fancier than what Protestants are use to. However, as said before, the foundation principles for the sake of saving souls, the points of Salvation, are all present in the Orthodox Christian tradition. A church, the Coptic, began by the Apostle after Jesus' own heart, John-Mark, as were they all save Judas, and perhaps there are those that would even argue that being were it not Judas that identified our Master, the mission for which Immanuel was born could not have began so as to be accomplished, would hardly be able to be said to deny Christ and not keep to the mission for which our Lord was born and died. An Apostle that would begin a church that isn't about all that Christ taught at its core? Does that sound possible? If you do attend an Orthodox church please if you would , post or even PM if you prefer and let me know. God's blessings, J.

The Orthodox Christian resources posted in all of the recent topics concerning the Orthodox Christian practice prove that to be an inaccurate statement regarding the faith and practice of the Orthodox Christian church.

In matters of Salvation, in a brief review of a Newsmax article concerning Orthodox Christianity, it misspeaks a bit. Orthodox Christianity teaches the same Salvation principle as is in Protestantism. The Orthodox church does not teach that we work to achieve our Salvation as the Newsmax article seems to impart. Rather, like unto the wisdom found in the book of James, our faith, Salvation, without works would be dead. In other words, the EO teaches that while we live we are always living and working in the light of the foundation principles of Salvation. We aren't simply saved, believe we are saved, and then fail to act as would represent our righteousness. The 4th point in the article, respect for Mary, isn't an issue in my view. God revered Mary and held her above all women. She was the vehicle by which God delivered his only begotten son into the world. Protestants ignore Mary's preciousness in that regard. Orthodox respect her for that. Mary's bodily ascension into Heaven isn't something Protestants refer to. It is more something that appears in the Catholic Catechism. However, many Protestants do believe that Elijah ascended into Heaven bodily per the scripture of 2 Kings chapter 2. And of course our Lord ascended to Heaven also and before his Apostles. Why not Mary? Whether the councils that compiled the New Testament books elected to omit her ascension or not. However, John 3:13 says, No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. Perhaps it all is to remain a mystery. Returning to the Newsmax article. Pertaining to the Eucharist. At the last supper in the upper room Jesus took the unleavened bread and the wine and told his Disciples to eat and drink those in remembrance of him. Jesus said the bread was his body, the wine was his blood. I do not fault the EO for taking Jesus at his word in contemporary times remembering as he told us to that which he laid down on the cross for our sake. The #1 item in the Newsmax article refers to the Papacy. 1. The Authority of the Pope: Unlike Catholics, Orthodox Christians reject the authority of the pope as Christ's representative on earth. They see the pope as no greater than nor less than any other bishop (the pope is the bishop of Rome). However, this also sets them apart from Protestant denominations, who reject the notion of apostolic succession completely, believing that each individual church is obligated only to itself and to God. I don't see an issue with that with regard to the Orthodox Christian church view. Orthodox Christianity rejects the authority of the pope as do I and all Protestants that I know. And finally, part two of the Newsmax list. This is a great addition because part of the false criticism that often arrives on the Net against the Orthodox church is that they pray to and worship Saints. 2. The Communion of Saints: Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that those who have died in Christ are alive today in heaven and that we can communicate with them through prayer. They don't see this as worship of the saints; they believe that the saints can't act on their own power but only through interceding with Jesus on our behalf. While there is this, 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. There is also this from Paul, with regard to Protestant beliefs in relative comparison to point 2 above. Romans 15:30-32 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. We are all saints in Christ in this life and in the one to come with the Father. The Orthodox Christian church communion of Saints, or as I see it Communion with the Saints, isn't saying they pray to the Saints in Heaven to forgive their sins. Rather, they continue as they were told in this world in matters of the saints of light praying with and for one another , and as Paul's Romans 15 epistle says, his appeal for prayers are to God on his behalf, so too are those the same being afforded the saints on earth to and for the Saints in Heaven with the Father. Again as I read it and being you asked opinion of the Newsmax article brother.

I edited out the picture to save space brother. I did not take your remarks at all as offensive nor defensive. Rather inquisitive and supportive being you said you were starting to see the EO as it is. This is the link to that site I mentioned earlier, the resource. Christian Denominations Where did all the Christian Denominations come from? If you scroll down you'll see a table with a list of denominations and dates. Those appear in the chronological order in which they came to be in this world. The Coptic Orthodox Christian church, Coptic being the Egyptian word for Egyptian, was second after that of Jesus Christ. And it was founded by one of his Apostles, John-Mark in the beginning. Hard to imagine John-Mark would have no concept of the Salvation principles of Immanuel. Below is that excerpt from the linked resource above.

They all honor Jesus brother. The basic principles Jesus taught concerning Salvation are the foundation principles in the Orthodox church. This resource was posted long ago in these discussions concerning the practice in the Orthodox Christian church.

It is backward because it is in error. If the individual takes penicillin when they have no need of it their immune system builds a resistance to the properties in Penicillin. Penicillin with then be ineffective because they body having been inundated with Penicillin has had the immune system grow to repel the properties in Penicillin because the body having been over exposed to Penicillin, the immune system had dispatched phagocytes and often enough lymphocytes to copy the properties of the invading organism, in this case Penicillin, and built an immunity barrier to its effects. This is something that happens with any foreign element introduced into the organic environment of the human organism. It's why regular prescriptions for what ails have to be changed over to something else, or a prescription is reformulated after years. Because the body immune system builds resistance to that which it identifies as threatening to the homeostasis of the individual.

This is demonstrably untruth for anyone who wishes to read the actual resources sourced from Orthodox Christian information sites in this and other threads on this topic.

I think not when all other resource efforts expended by those who cared to share have been ignored. There were no official orthodox apologists introduced into this discussion that did any such thing. That was not the question. I'll take the diversion as admission you've never entered an Orthodox Christian church.

Yes, let us keep it simple brother. Every Christian I believe is concerned with the souls of others so that they not perish eternally removed from God. It is in that concern that the teachings of Jesus inform and carry forward the Christian indwelt with God's Holy Spirit. As has been stated repeatedly but seemingly ignored, the foundation of gospel, good news, teachings being rooted in the principles of grace, faith, repentance, Jesus, baptism, salvation, that list afforded in no particular order. While the manner of celebrating God, of carrying forth confession in a different manner than that which is between the Christian and God in prayer, are adornments that surround the core principles of Jesus' truth and teaching. And in that regard, being the spirit of Christ should inform the Christian, and that includes the doctrine of truth and love for one another. Therefore, the opposite of that doctrine demonstrating itself by repeatedly insisting the core principles of salvation that the EOC holds to that are in line with Protestant denominations is not so is contrary in itself to what Jesus sought to impart to the world and those converts to his truth. I'll keep that simple being it may be over your head, as someone said of something I wrote before with seemingly flowery language they could not follow, per their remarks to that end. 2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. That renewed creation in Christ committed to the above scripture would not misrepresent the truth of equality in the salvation points the EO holds identical to Protestants. The ceremony being secondary when the grounding principles that saves souls are the same. Starting with God's grace through unto Baptism. Nor would that new creation in Christ abhor that truth and in its stead favor vilification of the most ancient church second to Christ's on earth, so as to defame and slander repeatedly the committed heart and blessed fruit of one of Jesus Christ's beloved Disciples, the Apostle John-Mark. Absolutely, opinions on any given topic do vary. However, foundation principles of the EO is not a matter of opinion but of Doctrine. And especially when the resources here provided prove the EO church itself identifies and teaches that Grace, Faith, Jesus, Salvation, Scripture, Baptism, are God's blueprint to Salvation. To renew the unregenerate, those dead in their sins. Just as is the case in Protestantism. When opinion enters into that is when the committed disparage a church, ignore the truth of the Grace principles already described, in order to denigrate that which is the Orthodox Christian church. And that is not pursued with the concern for the soul of the sinners or the righteous in Christ in mind. Otherwise, respect for the doctrine shared with Protestants concerning Salvation would example itself and we would not be having this debate about what truth and love for God's word appears to be. And what the opposite of that has shown itself intent to example.

I am aware of the difference. Yes, the Christian is to always keep attuned to the leading of the helper within. When we stumble we have the light available to return our steps to the righteous path. And certainly the fruits do speak for themselves, and that makes it easier for those in Christ to identify the tongue behind the tare. For weeds germinate faster than healthy seed and thus they multiply like among like so that the discerning sower can recognize the unfruitful grass from the nourishing sprout. As a metaphor for community forums the parable of the wheat and the tares doth fail in my view. Because the crop on earth will be harvested by the Lord God when it comes time at the end of our life. Those that are the wheat. And those that were disguised as the grass weed shall be plucked up having always been known by the great power that seeds life, and bound and cast to the fires. Its foolishness no longer able to flourish amid healthy righteous soil. And this because all flesh dies. In actual farming, and this relative to a commentary concerning liberalism on forums, a wise farmer knows that no matter how long the tare, the grasses, are allowed to germinate and spread among a field of wheat, no manner of time allotted it shall ever transform a weed into a stalk of healthy wheat. In fact, allowing the weeds to flourish without raising a hand insures the weeds will obscure the wheat . And in some crops, actually strangle the healthy food crop and make the investment in the seed worthless for the return that is lost at market because the harvest reaps nothing of value but weeds left unchecked. This is not something that is in practice by vigilant farmers who hold respect for the tradition of crop farming.