JoeCanada

How do you get this from Daniel 2? You have set the parameters for Daniel 2 only.... or are we now allowed to go outside of Daniel 2? I'm not trying to be difficult but I do not see any of this coming from Daniel 2.... or am I missing something?

Hi Charlie, Why do you add together the legs of iron with the feet of partly iron and clay? Since clay has been added to the iron, I see it as a separate kingdom. The NASB has it as: "The head of that statue was made of fine gold... its breast and its arms of silver... its belly and its thighs of bronxe... its legs of iron... its feet partly of iron and partly of clay"................. (there is no 'and' between the legs of iron + its feet) In the Septuagint:........... "32 an image, the head of which was of fine gold, its hands and breast and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass,............33 its legs of iron, its feet, part of iron and part of earthenware. If the feet and toes were really merged with the legs, then, according to the prophecy, no new Middle Eastern empire should have arisen after the Roman Empire. In other words, if the Roman Empire of solid legs were to be followed by a fractured Roman Empire, foretold as the feet and toes, which would continue until God's Eternal Kingdom, then the great Islamic Empire which supplanted Roman rule in the Holy Land and most of the biblical world never should have appeared. I have read quite a number of books and commentaries on Daniel and I find that many prophecy teachers go to extraordinary lengths to develope their scheme of a revived Roman Empire. And by focusing on Europe, the Middle Eastern heart of the biblical world is ignored. How can a person ignore Islam that has been around for thirteen centuries and dominates those lands?. The first four parts of the statue are not a degradation of the previuos empires. Each new part speaks of a different kingdom. Daniel only numbers the third and fourth parts in the sequence..... the second was not called the second. Is there anything that forbids the feet and toes from being a fifth empire?....... I think not. In the TANAKH, A New Translation of THE HOLY SCRIPTURES According to the Traditional Hebrew Text, reads: "You saw the feet and the toes, part of potter's clay and part iron; that means it will be a divided kingdom" The legs are not the basis for the feet.

This should probably have its ownpost, but since you brought it up, I will respond. I do not know..... how any serious student studying Scripture, especially the end times, can read Ezekiel 39 & 39..... and come away declaring.... YUP, that's exactly what happens after the 1000 year millenial reign of Jesus with His saints. What does Rev 20:7-9 tell us..... exactly: "they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”....... That's it. Nothing else. That is all that Scripture tells us will happen. Fire came down from heaven and devoured them! --------------------------- Look at what the Spirit tells us in Ezekiel 38 & 39: Eze 38:4............ “I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out"...................... It is God who brings him out Ezek 38:8............ " in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste"................ Israel had not been a continual waste for a thousand years Ezek 38:16........... " It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.”........... So the nations don't know God after living under His rule for 1000 years? Eze 38:19............. “In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel......... No mention in Rev 20 about an earthquake Eze 38:20.............. “The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground."............... All the mtns, the walls and the steep pathways were thrown down in the bowl judgments Eze 38:21.............“I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother"......... This doesn't happen after the 1000 years.... Eze 38:22.....“With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him"..... Again, no mention of this happening after the 1000 years Eze 38:23.....“I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD.”...... So the nations don't know God after living under His rule for 1000 years? Eze 39:3........“I will strike your bow from your left hand and dash down your arrows from your right hand".... This doesn't happen after the 1000 years Eze 39:4......“You will fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you as food to every kind of predatory bird and beast of the field".... This is clearly when Jesus is treading the winepress...and the birds and beast are called to come and gorge yourselves on the flesh............... " Eze 39:6...........“And I will send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the LORD".......... No fire happening in the coastlands in the 1000 year Eze 39:7................“My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel"........And this one is the clincher..... Jesus will not let His Holy Name be profaned anymore, and the nations will know that I am the Lord, the Holy One IN IN IN IN Israel. Not of Israel. Jesus is IN Israel during the Gog/Magog war BEFORE the 1000 year millennium. The Holy One OF Israel ..... 31 times The Holy One IN Israel..... 1 time....Ezek 39:7 Eze 39:22.........“And the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward"............ C'mon, after 1000 years living with Jesus, Israel doesn't know who He is............ Ridiculous!

Hi dougg, Why do you say...."But Gog/Magog will be the end of Islam.?" The Gog/Magog war is not global. Even IF every last Muslim in the Middle East (where the Gog/Magog war is conducted) is exterminated, there are still over ONE BILLION MUSLIMS left, worldwide. I don't see this as being a possibility.

Ok...I'll agree to that. Right. Rome is not alluded to. The bible has certain criteria for the 4th kingdom....and the 4th kingdom must meet that criteria. Gabriel revealed more than just the power of the 4th kingdom: "There will be a 4th kingdom as strong as iron Inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things SO.... Like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break ALL THESE IN PIECES. The 4th kingdom will..... break....crush....and shatter...... all these in pieces. What are ALL THESE? They are the kingdoms before the 4th kingdom. They are Babylon, Medes/Persia and Greece. Nope. There were several others. The major one that controlled Babylon was the Parthian Empire. And it held power until AD 214(or 244) I can't from the Book of Daniel ONLY. Remember... you said we can only use the Book of Daniel. The first 3 empires are identified in Daniel. The 4th is not. So a person would have to go outside of the Book of Daniel in order to identify the 4th kingdom.

Hi Charlie, You ask that when a person studies Daniel, that he not go outside of the book of Daniel. Daniel only. You say that Daniel interprets Daniel. Ok.... So.... how do you come up with a fourth kingdom that you say is Rome from the book of Daniel? Remember....Daniel only.

Hi Dougg, Why?????... do you place the Gog/Magog war 7 years prior to the return of Jesus??? I'm assuming that you are placing it at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. Why? Maybe we can discuss this in a thread about Gog/Magog...... but I would really like to discuss this with you.

Hey.... can you elaborate on this please Brutal... yes. And who wasn't? The empires before Rome.... the Parthians, the Greeks, the Medes and Persians, the Babylonians. All very brutal. The Roman armies were no more brutal than those before them. And try as they might, they couldn't destroy 'all' that were in their paths. That's why the they couldn't take Babylon or the Medes/Persians. Well, if we look at history, it was the Parthians that followed the Greek empire. Rome didn't come along until much later. So.... why is Rome called the kingdom of 'iron'??? Iron was around way before the Roman armies used it. In 2500 BCE, iron is used on a large scale by the Hittites, which is now Turkey and Syria. And in 1000 BCE is when the Iron Age really began. Iron was widely used for making tools and weapons in many parts of the world. Even the Greeks used it for their weapons. So again... why is Rome called the kingdom of iron? Like, who called it that????? We'll dig thru this a bit at a time if that's ok.

Hi Charlie, Well I finally got around to commenting on this. King Neb's dream in Daniel 2: King Neb was the head of gold...... he was the King of Babylon. After you there will arise another kingdom.... then another third kingdom.... then there will be a fourth kingdom. A little later in Daniel, the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms are identified. The second is Mede/Persia.... and the third is Greece. The fourth kingdom is not identified by name.... only by its characteristics. The common denominator of the first 3 kingdoms is that they all ruled over Babylon. The fourth kingdom is said to be different from the other three before it. Here then are the differences: “Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces."...Daniel 2:40 Lets look at Rome. In considering the 4th kingdom, does Rome meet the biblical criterea for the 4th kingdom? Did Rome crush....shatter....break in pieces all the first 3 kingdoms? No. Rome did not do this to either Babylon or Persia. Rome never controlled Babylon and it certainly did not crush it. Rome fought for Babylon for a year only to retreat because its armies could not handle the gorilla tactics of the enemy. And Rome never defeated Persia. What about Greece? .... Rome adopted the Greek language, the Greek culture, even the Greek dress style. Its temples were not destroyed either. Instead the Greek 'gods' were given Roman names. Rome assimilated the kingdoms it conquered and adopted much from them, including art, music, athletics, religion, language, and more. In fact, the most widely spoken language of the Roman empire was Greek, not Latin. So..... Rome does not meet the bible criterea for the 4th kingdom. Ther's more, but ...... I have to go.

Yes! Scripture does say "Egypt" Maybe the version you are using doesn't say it.

Isaiah 19 is "The oracle concerning Egypt"........ or "The Word of God concerning Egypt" In Verse 16...."In that day........... In verse 18.... "In that day.......... In verse 19 .... "In that day......... In verse 21.... " the Egyptians will know the Lord in that day...... In verse 23.... "In that day........ In verse 24 .... "In that day........ This is talking about the Day of the Lord. According to Isaiah 34:8....... 61:2.......63:4............. the Day of the Lord, the Day when He begins to unleash His great fury and wrath......the whole 'DAY' is a year long.

What?????? What mark are you referring to?

Ok brother.... one more time I will ask. Please..... tell us specifically. Scripture tells us that after the Gog Magog war that the nations will KNOW that Jesus is Lord. THEY WILL KNOW!....AFTER THE GOG MAGOG WAR! But you are saying that this Gog of Magog war does not happen until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Jesus where Scripture plainy teaches that the nations will KNOW that Jesus is King and Lord during the 1000 years. Plesase..... resolve this dilema that is in your last days interpretation. If what you say is true.... then I would say that your Jesus is a most inept ruler, incapable of making himself know to the nations after ruling for a 1000 years!

Hey... don't put words in my mouth! I didn't say it.... Jesus said it. And John reiterated it: "Rev 16: 17-21: "And every island fled away and the mountains were not found" Where does it say anything about 'SMOKE'? Did I say anything about 'SMOKE'? Stop putting words in Scripture where there are none. Oh please..... do show us a scripture where it says this. I am not a prophet. O brother.... you make me laugh!

Okay.... back at ya.... Do you believe Revelation is a lie or not? Rev 16: 17-21: The seventh bowl of wrath levels the earth. "And every island fled away and the mountains were not found" Do you believe that? So then in Ezekiel 38:21, God calls for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord God. But there are no more mountains in the millennium!................. Only one, God's Holy Mountain. You didn't answer, so I will repeat the question: Are you saying that after 1000 years of Jesus' rule, where He is ruling with a rod of iron, where nations yearly come to Jerusalem to pay homage to Him................ that they..... DO NOT KNOW THAT HE IS THE LORD? AFTER A 1000 YEARS????? After Ezekiel plainly tells us in Ezek 38:23.... 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”

@Stewardofthemystery Ezekiel 38:21-23 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” Are you saying that after 1000 years of Jesus' rule, where He is ruling with a rod of iron, where nations yearly come to Jerusalem to pay homage to Him................ that they..... DO NOT KNOW THAT HE IS THE LORD? AFTER A 1000 YEARS?????

Here is another one.... We need prayers going out to Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/it-was-utter-chaos-families-survivors-tell-of-horrors-of-hamas-invasion/

True enough AdHoc..... notice that Jesus first called Lazarus by name, then gave the command (shout) to "come forth". Had He not called Lazarus by name, all those in the grave would have come forth. He will SHOUT a deafening roar when He comes... and ALL those in the graves will come out.

The Jews are not fleeing from Jesus.Jesus said they would flee when they see the abomination of desolation. And they are not fleeing to avalley.They are fleeing to the mountains where the caves are on the day of the Lord.They are hiding. Revelation 6 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: @douggg Are we talking about the same event? If Jesus is standing on the Mount of Olives, then it's quite obvious that He has returned. The AofD is at the midpoint of the 70th week. The (Jews) (kings and rich men and captains and mighty men etc) don't hide in the mtns and rocks and caves until the sixth seal is opened.... which is well into the last half of Daniels 70th week.

Read Daniel 7 really carefully. Pay special attention to verses 9-10 “I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was [h]ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 10 “A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. "The court sat" Who is all in the court room? You have the Judge....(GOD)... the prosecution. the defence, the jurors. Because they are "ELDERS", it would make sense that these "24 elders" are jurors. They are part of the heavenly court. And if you look further in Daniel 7..... " But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, [ae]annihilated and destroyed [af]forever. 27 Then the [ag]sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the [ah]saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’ The saints will receive the kingdom after the beast is destroyed.... not 7 years before. The 24 elders are obviously NOT the church.... NOT the many billions of people. Just 24!

Why will the Jews escape through the valley when the Mt of Olives is split???......... as Jesus stands on the Mount of Olives splitting it in half??? Jesus is there..... He has returned..... it's His Second Coming And so the Jews will flee from.....Him? ????????????????????

No sir. Satan is still accusing us day and night. Satan is not kicked out of heaven until rev 12. Read it. Especially 12:12....

Of course we are made free from sin..... but, not the ongoing sin that we were use to before we came to the cross. God has made us a new man.... the old man is null and void, but, he still rears his ugly head. John tells us in 1 John 2: " My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you might not sin. And, if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins...." Jesus is our mediator. Satan is there accusing us day and night...Rev 12:10 Do you think that he is there telling God how good and loving and sinless we are? No. He is there saying "Look at Joe...he is a great sinner, he is worthless, how can you possibly love him..... yada yada yada.

Absolutely! Being made free from sin by the power of God in Jesus Christ is the True gospel message. Well, I don't know anything about you; how old you are or for how long you've been a Christian. But from the moment that you were 'born again'..... I'm certain that you've committed sins since then ....NO? Maybe read what Paul says in Rom 7:14>>>>>

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a person who is born of God's Holy Spirit, has been forgiven of their sins thru the atonement of Christ.... can now live a completely sin free life?