Patrick Miron

Actually that IS NOT what Jesus is saying. I just POSTED a lengthy evidenced explanation; PLEASE READ IT; then if you still want to discuss this passage I will gladly do so? God Bless you Patrick

Friend, I just spent 3 days {MANY hours} preparing a detailed and evidenced POST with I JUST sharred on this issue; please do yourself a favor a read it God Bless you

REPLY Sure: Do I believe in it? Absolutely, without question or any reservations, as do MILLIONS of fellow Informed Catholics [2] If so, how does it work? My friend did you know that that you have touched on the very foundation of Catholicism, and therefore Christianity, in asking this question? This is of such critical importance that I will endeavor a full, complete and comprehensive answer to your question. So it will be lengthy. Our Catholic Catechism explains its critical importance to all of us. 1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life." "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch. {sacrifice} 1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking." Let’s began a systematic approach by sharing that the term “Traunsbstanuation” was given birth during the Council Of Trent 1550-1555; which provided a thorough, much needed at the time, {re} explanation of many of the LONG-defined doctrines and Beliefs of the RCC; which were then under attacked and being put into “question” by Martin Luther {an apostate Catholic Monk}, and the defacto Father of the NEW 16th Century Protestant Reformation. Martin was intent on inventing HIS OWN Personal version of Christianity and did so by attacking many long held defined Doctrinal {defined} Beliefs of the RCC; which he very often expressed by changing Bible TEXT to better conform with HIS New Teachings. {Luther also removed 7 entire OT books to further His Cause.} When was the term “Eucharist” first used? “Justin Martyr (114-165). Justin was born into a well-to-do pagan family in Samaria. He dabbled in philosophy, studying all the major schools of thought in his day. He came across an old man who told him that Christianity was the one true philosophy, and as a result, he was converted in about 132. He was the first person to use the word Eucharist {MEANS Thanksgiving} to refer to the Communion service. However, he was an apologist, not a theologian. He was referring to usage that was common in his day. So it is very likely that Eucharist was the original, first-century term for the Communion service.” {Which later morphed into a synonymous term for the “Real Presence” and the Mass. 1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration.{THE MASS} They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did: On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits. When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation. When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss. Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.' When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent. END QUOTES Before getting into the definition of terms that I will be using, it seems prudent to explain WHY and HOW a Catholic Religious belief becomes a “Defined Doctrine” At its root it’s a matter of a Faith-belief {usually already long held} being challenged. From a practical perspective there is no actual need to formally DEFINE a belief that is long held and practiced unless and until it is being challenged. It is the act of being challenged aspect that drives “the need” to formally explain; that is to define a particular religious belief. The challenge to the belief of the “Real Presence”; what was to become termed the “Eucharist” was by {Saint} Gregory VII, {1073-1085} DECREE Of the Most Holy Eucharist/TRENT/canon number two ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema. CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema. {TRENT} CHAPTER IV. On Transubstantiation. And because that Christ, our Redeemer, declared that which He offered under the species of bread to be truly His own body, therefore has it ever been a firm belief in the Church of God, and this holy Synod doth now declare it anew, that, by the consecration of the bread and of the wine, a conversion is made of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of His blood; which conversion is, by the holy Catholic Church, suitably and properly called Transubstantiation. END Quotes The term Transubstantiation. itself is a Theological term; invented to DESCRIBE the process that you are asking about, BUT it ought to be rightly used in conjunction with -the term “CONSECRATION” which is the “ACTION”; The Process itself. -What is “{the}Consecration”? “CONSECRATION. The words of institution of the Eucharist, pronounced at Mass by which is accomplished the very sacrifice that Christ instituted at the Last Supper. The formula of consecration is uniform for all the approved canons of the Mass and reads, in literal translation: "Take and eat of this, all of you; for this is my body which will be given up for you . . .Take and drink of this, all of you; for this is the chalice of my blood, of the new and eternal testament, which will be shed for you and for many unto the remission of sins. Do this in commemoration of me." (Etym. Latin consecratio; from consecrare, to render sacred.)” End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary “What is Transubstantiation”? “Transubstantiation is the process by which the bread and wine of the Eucharist is transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that through transubstantiation, the risen Jesus becomes truly present in the Eucharist. The word transubstantiation is made up of two parts: 'trans' and 'substantiation.' The first part is a prefix that means 'across', 'beyond', or 'through'. It suggests that some kind of change has taken place. The second part of the word, 'substantiation,' refers to the philosophical term substance. According to the Greek philosopher Aristotle, substance is a thing's deepest being, what it is, in and of itself. The substance of a thing is what it really and truly is beyond all appearances. Aristotle calls those appearances accidents. An object's accidents are its external characteristics, what we can see, smell, touch, taste, and hear. Those accidents can help us identify and describe an object, but they do not necessarily capture the inner essence of a thing, its substance. Let's look at an example. A teenager decides to dress up as a zombie for Halloween. His costume is highly realistic, complete with torn clothing, heavy makeup, and lots of fake blood. He groans like a zombie and even has an earthy, musty smell. To all appearances, in his accidents, this young man seems like a zombie, but deep down, in his substance, he is, of course, a human teenager. In transubstantiation, then, the substance of the bread and wine changes into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The accidents of the bread and wine, their taste, smell, and appearance, remain the same, but deep down, the bread and wine no longer exist. They are completely Jesus Christ.” END QUOTES MEANING OF THE “REAL PRESENCE” The first definition of the Council of Trent is on the Catholic meaning of the Real Presence. The definition reads: "If anyone says that the Body and Blood together with His whole Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore the whole Christ, is truly, really and substantially contained in the Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist, but says that Christ is present in the Sacrament only as in a sign or figure or by His power, let him be anathema." (Session 13, can.1) There are four key terms in this solemn definition: "the whole Christ," "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained. What are we being taught by these definitions? We are being told that the Holy Eucharist means "the whole Christ." Everything which belongs to Christ - everything which makes “Christ” Christ ‑ is present in the Blessed Sacrament. This consequently means that Christ is present in His divinity as God and in His humanity as man. Christ is present in the Eucharist with His human body and human soul, with His bodily organs and limbs and with His human mind, will and feelings ‑ "the whole Christ." Latin reads Totus Christus. Then we are told Christ is present "truly" and not only symbolically. He is present objectively and only subjectively in the minds of believers. He is contained in the Blessed Sacrament. Consequently, if our minds realize this objective fact, we possess the truth. There is no more precious truth revealed by Christ than the truth that He is on earth, the whole Christ in the Eucharist. We are taught that Christ is "really" present and not only figuratively. The Eucharistic presence is not a metaphor or figure of speech. It is reality. Christ exists in the Holy Eucharist. During the century when this Real Presence was defined by the Council of Trent, St. Robert Bellarmine counted the number of meanings given to Christ's words at the Last Supper: "This is My Body, this is My Blood." He found among the Protestant scholars more than two hundred interpretations except the one which says Christ is "really" present in the Eucharist. Finally, this definition tells us that Christ is present "substantially" and not merely by the exercise of His power. True, Christ is everywhere exercising His power. Thus, we can legitimately say that Christ is present in every person in the state of grace. Christ confers His grace on those who are in His friendship. But being in the state of grace is not the same as having the Real Presence of Christ in our bodies and souls. The Real Presence in the Eucharist is absolutely unique. Christ is not present everywhere with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity ‑ only in the Eucharist. In the Eucharist, Christ is present in the fullness of His being. There is an analogy which may help explain the distinction. When an American author writes a book that is published worldwide, is he present to those people in Japan who read what he has written? Is his influence present in their hearts and minds? Of course. But unless he flies to Tokyo, he is not "substantially" present to those people. The Eucharistic Christ is present on earth not only in the sense that He exercises His divine influence on the hearts and minds of human beings. Christ Himself is "substantially" present on earth in the Blessed Sacrament. Only in the Eucharist is Christ present with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity. That is the first defined dogma on the Real Presence: "the whole Christ" is "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained in the Eucharist. END Father John A. Hardon ACCIDENTS. Things whose essence naturally requires that they exist in another being. Accidents are also called the appearances, species, or properties of a thing. These may be either physical, such as quantity, or modal, such as size or shape. Supernaturally, accidents can exist, in the absence of their natural substance, as happens with the physical properties of bread and wine after Eucharistic consecration. MASS. The Sacrifice of the Eucharist as the central act of worship of the Catholic Church. The "Mass" is a late form of missio (sending), from which the faithful are sent to put into practice what they have learned and use the graces they have received in the Eucharistic liturgy. As defined by the Church at the Council of Trent, in the Mass, "The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross, is present and offered in an unbloody manner." Consequently, the Mass is a truly propitiatory sacrifice, which means that by this oblation "the Lord is appeased, He grants grace and the gift of repentance, and He pardons wrongdoings and sins, even grave ones. For it is one and the same victim. He who now makes the offering through the ministry of priests and he who then offered himself on the cross. The only difference is the manner of offering" (Denzinger 1743). The Mass cannot be understood apart from Calvary, of which it is a re-presentation, memorial, and effective application of the merits gained by Christ. The re-presentation {the very same being offered time and time again} means that because Christ is really present in his humanity, in heaven and on the altar, he is capable now as he was on Good Friday of freely offering himself to the Father. He can no longer die because he now has a glorified body, but the essence of his oblation remains the same. The Mass is also a memorial. Christ's death is commemorated not only as a psychological remembrance but as a mystical reality. He voluntarily offers himself, the eternal high priest, as really as he did on Calvary. The Mass is, moreover, a sacred banquet or paschal meal. The banquet aspect of the Mass is the reception of Holy Communion by the celebrant and the people, when the same Christ who offers himself to the Father as a sacrifice then gives himself to the faithful as their heavenly food. It was this fact that inspired the Holy See, after the Second Vatican Council, to restore the practice of receiving Communion under both kinds for all the faithful: "The entire tradition of the Church teaches that the faithful participate more perfectly in the Eucharistic celebration through sacramental Communion. By Communion, in fact, the faithful share more fully in the Eucharistic Sacrifice. In this way they are not limited to sharing in the sacrifice by faith and prayer, nor to merely spiritual communion with Christ offered on the altar, but receive Christ himself sacramentally, so as to receive more fully the fruits of this most holy sacrifice. In order that the fullness of the sign in the Eucharistic banquet may be seen more clearly by the faithful, the Second Vatican Council prescribed that in certain cases, to be decided by the Holy See, the faithful could receive Holy Communion under both species" (Sacramentali Communione, June 29, 1970). Finally the Mass is the divinely ordained means of applying the merits of Calvary. Christ won for the world all the graces it needs for salvation and sanctification. But these blessings are conferred gradually and continually since Calvary and mainly through the Mass. Their measure of conferral is in proportion to the faith and loving response of the faithful who unite themselves in spirit with the Mass. It is in this sense that the Mass is an oblation of the whole Mystical Body, head and members. Yet, among the faithful, some have been ordained priests and their role in the Mass is essentially different from that of the laity. The priest is indispensable, since he alone by his powers can change the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Nevertheless the role of the participants is of great importance; not as though there would be no Mass without a congregation but because the people's "full, active and conscious participation will involve them in both body and soul and will inspire them with faith, hope and charity." "Go, [the congregation] is dismissed.") End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary WHAT Happens At Mass? “Since the second century, the Mass (or the Eucharistic Liturgy) has had a structure that is common to all Catholics. While there can be different emphases during the celebration of Mass in Eastern Churches, they maintain the fundamental twofold structure with which members of the Latin Church are familiar. Thus, the Mass unfolds in two major parts that form a single act of worship. First, there is the Liturgy of the Word, with Scripture readings, homily, Profession of Faith, and General Intercessions. Second, there is the Liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the Eucharistic Prayer, and the reception of Holy Communion. The essential elements of Eucharistic celebrations may be summarized in the following four points. 1. The Introductory Rites The Christian community, united by the Holy Spirit, gathers for worship in response to God’s call. Jesus, our High Priest, is the principal agent of our celebration. The bishop or priest acts in the person of Christ, the Head of the Church. All the worshipers participate actively with interior devout attention and with external reverence shown by singing the hymns and giving the responses and, when appropriate, observing silence. There are also the deacon, the lectors, those who present the offerings, the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the altar servers, the musicians, and other ministers. This first movement contains the Introductory Rites, which begin the celebration of the Mass. These include the Penitential Rite, the Gloria, and the Opening Prayer. Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people” (1 Pt 2:9, 4-5) have a right and obligation by reason of their baptism. (SC, no. 14) 2. Liturgy of the Word Over the course of the liturgical year, readings from Scripture, especially the Gospels, provide the heart of this part of the celebration. The proclamation of God’s Word and its explanation are meant to arouse our faith and prepare us for an ever deeper participation in the mystery of the Eucharist. The readings are followed by a homily from a bishop, priest, or deacon; the Profession of Faith in the recitation of the Creed; and intercessory prayers. 3. Liturgy of the Eucharist a. The Preparation of the Gifts (Jesus took bread and wine). The offerings of bread and wine are received by the priest, who may be assisted by a deacon. “They will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his Body and Blood” (CCC, no. 1350). From the earliest days of the Church, there was also an offering of gifts for the poor and needy. This has become the customary place and time for the parish collection. b. The Eucharistic Prayer (Jesus blessed and gave thanks). This is the heart of the Eucharistic Liturgy, which unfolds in the following manner. Thanksgiving (expressed especially in the Preface): In this prayer, we thank God the Father, through Christ in the Spirit, for the gifts of creation, salvation, and sanctification. Acclamation: The whole congregation joins with the angels and saints in singing or saying the Sanctus (Holy, Holy). Epiclesis (Invocation): The Church implores the power of the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine offered by human hands into Christ’s Body and Blood. Institution Narrative and Consecration: The priest proclaims Jesus’ words at the Last Supper over the bread and wine. “The power of the words and the action of Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit, make sacramentally present, under the species of bread and wine, Christ’s Body and Blood, his sacrifice offered on the cross for all” (CCC, no. 1353). Anamnesis (The Remembrance): We recall the death and Resurrection of Christ and look forward to his glorious return. Second Epiclesis: The Holy Spirit is invoked upon the gathered community, to bring unity to the worshippers who will receive Holy Communion. Intercessions: With the whole Communion of Saints and all God’s people on earth, we pray for the needs of all the members of the Church, living and dead. Doxology and Great Amen: We conclude the Eucharistic Prayer with praise of God the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit. This glorification is confirmed and concluded by the people’s acclamation “Amen.” c. Communion Rite (Jesus broke the bread and gave his Body and Blood). After the Lord’s Prayer, the Lamb of God is sung or said during the breaking of the Body of Christ, or fraction, then we receive the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion. The Communion Rite concludes with a closing prayer. 4. Concluding Rite Following the prayer after Holy Communion, the priest blesses the people and dismisses the assembly. Centuries of reflection on the Eucharist have left us a spiritual heritage that continues to deepen and grow. Three key truths about the Eucharist draw our attention: it is a Sacrifice, a Holy Meal, and the Real Presence of Christ. You can read more from the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, order your own copy, or read questions about it at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website. ” END QUOTES So NOW the BIG Question for non-Catholic Christians: Yea BUT is it in the BIBLE? The issue of unbelief by many Christians is actually pure “IGNORANCE”, that is a lack of correct understanding, wrought by a perceived “right” of self-interpretation of the Bible; which frankly is forbidden by the Bible itself. 2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy {meaning “understanding”} of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy {CORRECT UNDERSTANDING} ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise The Bibles OWN Testimony: And for this exercise I will use the King James AND the Catholic Douay Bibles. The KJV will be listed first then the Douay Bible. …. Oh lest you’re tempted to claim that the RCC changed the BIBLE; it is historically provable that that Douay Bible NT was translated into English about 30 years PRIOR to the King James in German. “Many anti-Catholics accuse the Church of having hidden Scripture from the faithful by refusing to translate them into the vernacular tongue. The Douay-Rheims provides a particularly telling counterexample. It was completed in 1609, making it older than the KJV, which was not published until 1611. The fact that the Rheims New Testament was published in 1582 meant that it appeared almost thirty years before the KJV New Testament.” END QUOTES Mt. 26:26-28 NV 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R HE 26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.NK JV 27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.RH E 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins. Mk. 14: 22-24 NV 22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R HE 22 And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke and gave to them and said: Take ye. This is my body.N V 23 Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.R E 23 And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it.NKJ V 24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.RH E 24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many. Lk. 22: 19-20 19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."R 19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. 20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. 20 In like manner, the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the New Testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you. John 6:47-57 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life 47 Amen, amen, I say unto you: He that believeth in me hath everlasting life 48 I am the bread of lifeRHE 48 I am the bread of life 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven that one may eat of it and not die 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven: that if any man eat of it, he may not die 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. (6-52) If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?"RHE 52 (6-53) The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?NKJV 53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you 53 (6-54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day 54 (6-55) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed 55 (6-56) For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 56 (6-57) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.RHE 57 (6-58) As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. New King James Version Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible John 6:65-69 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." 65 (6-66) And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father 66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more 66 (6-67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with {MEANS Abandoned Him}him. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?" 67 (6-68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life 68 (6-69) And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 69 (6-70) And we have believed and have known that thou art the Christ, the Son of God. Paul 1st Cor. 11:23-30 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the New Testament in my blood. This do YOU, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes 26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come 27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep. {This means are self-condemned to HELL unless they REPENT and Convert} END BIBLE QUOTES Summation: First: all of the above is testified as being the literal truth through the sacrificial offering of their BLOOD to by Five different Catholic Authors of the New Testament; three of who are members of the 12 Apostles; four of who gave their very lives in grotesque way’s {and they attempted to BOIL John also but Jesus saved him}. There was, and there is no single issue or point of belief of greater significance of importance than the issue of the REAL PRESENCE as deified earlier in this document; profoundly, because it actually IS the very Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. How does it Happen? 1 It has to be {and can be} only accomplished by an Ordained Catholic Or Orthodox Priest; who have verifiable Direct Apostolic Succession: “{YOU}DO THIS in Commemoration of ME”} 2 The Eucharist is: FROM God the Father OF God the Son BY God the Holy Spirit {through His Priest} This is a Mystery wrapped up in two consecutive miracles First miracle: at the very instant of the Consecration/ Traunsbstanuation; the Priest is miraculously transformed into an “alter Chrtius” {another Christ} With the WORDS: This IS MY Body This IS MY Blood The ordinary is transformed into the EXTRAORDINARY Secondly: the Holy Spirt THROUGH His Priest {Miracle #2} is empowered to transform what looks, smells, taste, and feels like ordinary {unleavened bread and wine} into the LITERAL Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the NOW GLORIFIED Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus IN Person. Third: It is to be noted that this is the Original Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross RE-PRESENTED; Not represented ; That is to say: even Jesus can only die once; so this Sacrifice of Jesus is “repeated” in its original form and action until time eternal. The practice of religious believes is termed “faith” precisely because THAT is what God expects from each of us. Are we to presume that GOD cannot do this? Mt. 28: 20 {ALSO Literal} “ [20] {YOU}Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.” Forth: This Dogma of the Catholic Faith is the very foundation of ALL forms of Christianity: …If THIS is not true; then Christianity itself id a lie. Fifth: There exist no greater; no more compelling reason to be an informed Practicing Catholic than this REALITY; which miracle of MIRACLES allows humanity to confront, to meet ALMIGHTHY GOD on His terms while still here on earth. Sixth: This is SUCH a critically important belief that God has performed multiple Eucharistic Miracles to AID the unbelievers in their unbelief; Do NOT be another Doubting Thomas: John 20: 24-29 “ [24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. [25]The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. [27] Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.[28] Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.” Seventh: I have here in my office a photograph taken by a fellow Marian Catechist, of Father John A. Hardon S.J. {a mentor and occasional teacher of mine; may he Rest in Peace} taken in 1998 {if memory serves} where Father after Mass was placing Jesus on “display” for ADORATON, and a miracle took place and the actual FACE of Jesus appeared on the Consecrated host. {Termed Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament} As a FYI: Jesus does miracles to AID the faith of someone. No doubt in MY opinion; there was someone {likely a Catholic}present who doubted the Real Presence; and confided the same to Father; who prayed for a Miracle of Faith. {I’m going to attempt to attached it here; but I don’t really know HOW to do so, so I’ll attempt to Copy and Paste it here.} IN ANY CASE I SUGGEST YOU GOOLGE “Eucharistic Miracles” which ALL are independently investigated by non-Catholic experts before they are attested as Miracles by the RCC. I pray my friend, that THIS answers your excellent and courageous question. Thank you; Patrick {see the file attached} Fr Hardon and Christ in the Eucharist.docx

Isaiah is Metaphorical Mt. 26:26-27 Mk. 14: 22-24 Lk. 22: 19-20 Jn. 6: 47-57, 68-70 {Douay Bible} Paul 1st Cor. 11:23-30 ALL of which are Literal BUT stay tuned I'm working on a detailed response that I'll post ASAP God Bless you, Patrick

COUNT on it? Its REALLY Jesus in Person! And THAT is "ALOT!" Blessings, Patrick

Cute:☺️ If you can't win the debate CHANGE the topic. But to be fair; your topic is well worth discussing; START a new THREAD and let me know when you do and we can discuss it too. But Transubstantiation {a more recent theological term} has been around for some 2,000 years and the LAST Supper with Jesus Himself. It references Christ ongoing REAL {as in REALLY!!!!!} Divine Presence in Catholic Holy Communion; the very foundation of Catholicism and therefore by proxy; Protestantism which flows through the Catholic Church. It is "the Sum and the Summit" of our Catholic Faith as it IS Jesus Himself in Person and the most Profound reason everyone ought to WANT to be an Informed and fully practicing Catholics {yea; there are still a slew of us around} So lets discuss this ISSUE HERE and your valid issue when you begin a new THREAD. Dear Jesus BLESS Us, we need you, Patrick

Good to be HERE, thanks, Patricl

SAD but TRUE What the CC is experiencing today is a MUCH needed cleaning. Satan's "smoke" has infiltrated the Church that JESUS Himself established and desired. That this happened is a testimony of humans being too HUMAN and insufficiently GODLY. But that something BAD would happen is no surprise. Mt 7: [13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock. [26] And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, [27] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof. [28] And it came to pass when Jesus had fully ended these words, the people were in admiration at his doctrine Many WOLFS in sheep's clothing have been discovered and MORE to come! But FEAR NOT; Jesus PROMISED: Mt.16: 18-19 [18]And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. Today's Jesus {Catholic} Church is 2,000 years old. Still we are living in truly historic times with a Pope who is an anomaly; who has appointed some ferocious WOLFS.... BUT Jesus Remains IN CHARGE of His Bark; His Catholic Church. ....Its SICK but the Doctor has now arrived. The foundational problem is yet to be fully known, but it is homosexuality; seemingly "rampant" to varying degrees at every level of the hierarchy. ...BUT the cleaning crews ARE being assembled. The degree of these plagues is so great that it HAS to have been a satanic plan executed over many recent years to TRY to take down the Church Jesus established. Aint gonna happen! Pray very much, as do I Patrick

May the Holy Spirit lead this discussion Patrick

Dear friend in Christ; You began with "A CREED" Here for your edification {without sola's] is the original one { A CATHOLIC PRAYER FROM THE COUNCIL IF NICEA IN 425 AD {that about 1,000 before Calvin} Nicene Creed We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. You see friend TRUTH {"I Am the Way and the TRUTH and the Life"} are all singular tense. May Jesus guide our Life oaths As for "the Tulip" PLEASE do yourself a favor and read this site: http://heresies.landmarkbiblebaptist.net/calvinism.html God Bless you, Patrick

That was meaningful and beautiful George; thanks I am reminded that so very often the "enemy" is the one we see when we look into a mirror. There is no substitute to a disciplined prayer life May God lead our Life Paths Patrick

That was meaningful and beautiful George; thanks I am reminded that so very often the "enemy" is the one we see when we look into a mirror. There is no substitute to a disciplined prayer life May God lead our Life Paths Patrick

Did Jesus Lie or is the Bible in error? Neither. [1} The Catholic church is in error in its unenlightened interpretation. [2] It is the Catholic church that lies. [3] The popes lie. [4] The fact that they think a person is going to hell if they leave the catholic church indicates that it is a cult. [5] The fact that they must falsely read this into the Scriptures and twist them as Satan did with Jesus in the wilderness is an indication where these lies come from. [6] Perhaps you are deceived. [7]Each time I encounter these false arguments I am even more convinced that people should avoid the Roman Catholic church [8] at all costs in order to be saved and to not be deceived as you have been My friend then tenor of your post the tenor of you POST hints of Slander. Not a good thing. I do sense your sincerity though and will reply briefly to each of your points which I have numbered to make it easy to follow along. I’m going to guess that you’re a member of some Baptist Bible Church? {I once heard John MacArthur teach “it’s OK to hate Catholics”} still I am NOT saying that is necessary a bad thing. Lk. 6: [32] And if you love them that love you, what thanks are to you? for sinners also love those that love them. …. [35] But love ye your enemies” John 13: [34] A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. [35] By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.” [1] “The Catholic church is in error in its unenlightened interpretation” Friend; are you aware that the Bible is a Catholic Birthed Book? It was Catholic Fathers who guided by the Holy Spirit selected amidst very much debate; the 46 OT Books to be included. Then it was Catholic Men {including 5 Apostles; Matthew, Peter, John, James and Paul} who authored the entire NEW Testament’s 27 books. It was the RCC that set the Canon of the Bible that still exist today in the late 4th Century. … All of this is historically verifiable; hence not debatable. So your position is that the Church that gave you and the world the Bible is incompetent to {alone} interpret if fully and correctly? Hmmmm Mt. 28:18-20 “ [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to THEM saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded YOU and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.” DOUAY BIBLE COMMENTARY: [18] "All power": See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14.” So your position seems tenuous. [2] “It is the Catholic church that lies” Could you please be more specific? As stated this is just your own subjective opinion. As a point of elucidation for you: the Bible was fully authored by the end of the 1st Century {about 1,500 years prior to the Reformation, and Luther and Calvin}and all of the early Christians were in fact “Catholic-Christians” until 1054 and the Great Eastern Schism. … Hence a proper reading of the Bible is that it was a book “by” Catholics and intended at that time {of assembly and authorship} exclusively FOR Catholics. .. Another historical undebatable fact. John 17: 17:20 “ [17] Sanctify THEM in {My} truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent ME into the world, I also have SENT THEM into the world. [19] And for THEM do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in {my} truth. [20] And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me” …. Hence the today’s RCC is the only Church & the Only Faith that can claim with veracity to have Jesus Christ Himself as the Personal Witness of Her Teaching fully, and truthfully; all teaching on Faith beliefs and Moral matters. And that friend is Jesus Christ talking, not me, not the Church and NOT the Pope. . [3] The popes lie Please see and reread the above unless you have some specific information to share? NOTE that Jesus Himself protects the Pope when he teaches officially on matters of Faith and Morals ONLY. . [4] The fact that they think a person is going to hell if they leave the catholic church indicates that it is a cult. OK {?} so I’ll ask again: Did Jesus Lie or is the Bible wrong in teaching exactly WHAT THE BIBLE SAY’S? Hebrews 6:4-8 “[4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, {MEANS BAPTIZED}have tasted also the heavenly gift,{JESUS HIMSELF IN CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION} and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SACRAMENTAL CONFIRMATION} [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God,{Been actually instructed in God’s truths} and the powers of the world to come, DOUAY COMMENTARY[1] "The word of the beginning": The first rudiments of the Christian doctrine. [4] "It is impossible": The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell. [6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance,{RECEIVED SACRAMENTAL CONFESSIOPN :JOHN: 20:1923} crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt.” “Very near ONLY because they CAN choose to Repent and Convert at any time BEFORE death.” Otherwise it’s a done deal! [5] The fact that they must falsely read this into the Scriptures and twist them as Satan did with Jesus in the wilderness is an indication where these lies come from. Please reread #2 again [6] Perhaps you are deceived May I humbly suggest that sense I have evidenced each of my points that perhaps it is you who is being deceived. There can be only One True God {the 1st Commandment”; even GOD can have only one true faith {Eph 4:5}and Just was Yahweh had just “One Chosen People” {Exo. 6:7}; JESUS chose to have only One True Church {Mt 16:18”}. So a question for you: Could Jesus have waited for 16th century Apostate Catholic Monk Martin Luther and or John Calvin some 1,500 years AFTER the Bible was authored to make what can only be SINGULAR truths per defined issue known?...... Hmmmmmm If the RCC is not the One True Church and Faith then which one of the thousands of Protestant churches IS? On WHAT evidence? [7]Each time I encounter these false arguments I am even more convinced that people should avoid the Roman Catholic church In which case you would be advising “people” to avoid the ONLY Church and Faith Desires; Founded and Protected by GOD Himself. It is only by God’s Grace and protection that the RCC after 2,000 years STILL HAS JUST ONE SET OF FAITH beliefs; while Protestants after 500 years have thousands of version…..Go figure. [8 ] at all costs in order to be saved and to not be deceived as you have been Friend, sadly it is You and so many more like you that are being deceived. Take note of the FACT that I provided evidence for all of the points you raised; why you only leveled subjective-slanderous charges…. THERE is a place for logic and common sense here. May God guide your path, thank you for doing wha you have been taught is “Right.” Patrick

To further your education my dear friend; How much money does the Catholic Church give to charity? In 2010, Catholic Charities USA reported expenditures of between $4.2 billion and $4.4 billion, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy, which publishes an annual list of the 400 biggest charities in the United States, ranked by the amount of donations they receive.Mar 19, 2013 What does Catholic Charities do for you? Catholic Charities uses a variety of approaches to deal with poverty, providing basic needs to individuals and advocacy to address systemic poverty. Through its member agencies, Catholic Charities provides services to millions of people a year through activities such as housing, health care, and disaster relief. #11 Catholic Charities USA · Revenue · $3.7 Billion Category Domestic Needs Country United States Top Person Donna Markham Website http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org Fiscal Year End Jun 30, 2016 Total Revenues $3.73 B Headquarters Alexandria, Virginia Catholic Charities USA on Forbes Lists · #11 The 100 Largest U.S. Charities Catholic Church and science From Wikipedia, the free {and notably anti-Catholic} encyclopedia The relationship between the Catholic Church and science is a widely debated subject. Historically, the Catholic Church has often been a patron of sciences. It has been prolific in the foundation of schools, universities and hospitals, and many clergy have been active in the sciences. Historians of science such as Pierre Duhemcredit medieval Catholic mathematicians and philosophers such as John Buridan, Nicole Oresme, and Roger Bacon as the founders of modern science.[1]Duhem found "the mechanics and physics, of which modern times are justifiably proud, to proceed by an uninterrupted series of scarcely perceptible improvements from doctrines professed in the heart of the medieval schools."[2] Yet, the conflict thesis and other critiques emphasize historical or contemporary conflict between the Catholic Church and science, citing in particular the trial of Galileo as evidence. For its part, the Catholic Church teaches that science and the Christian faith are complementary, as can be seen from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which states in regards to faith and science: Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth. ... Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.[3] Catholic scientists, both religious and lay, have led scientific discovery in many fields.[4] From ancient times, Christian emphasis on practical charity gave rise to the development of systematic nursing and hospitals and the Church remains the single largest private provider of medical care and research facilities in the world.[5] Following the Fall of Rome, monasteries and convents remained bastions of scholarship in Western Europe and clergymen were the leading scholars of the age – studying nature, mathematics, and the motion of the stars (largely for religious purposes).[6] During the Middle Ages, the Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon, and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish the scientific method.[7] During this period, the Church was also a great patron of engineering for the construction of elaborate cathedrals. Since the Renaissance, Catholic scientists have been credited as fathers of a diverse range of scientific fields: Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism, Friar Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) pioneered genetics, and Fr Georges Lemaître (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.[8] The Jesuits have been particularly active, notably in astronomy. Church patronage of sciences continues through institutions like the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and Vatican Observatory.[9] END QUOTES What the Church has given the world by Fr Andrew Pinsent From astronomy to philosophy Catholics have made an extraordinary contribution to western civilisation, says Fr Andrew Pinsent Introduction At a recent debate, broadcast worldwide by the BBC, over 87 per cent of the audience rejected the notion that the Catholic Church is a force for good in the world. Although the defenders of the Church were confronted by two masters of rhetoric, there is little doubt that the vote reflected a shift in attitudes towards Christianity in general and the Catholic faith in particular. To put this shift in blunt terms, whereas we were regarded recently as nice but naïve, today we are increasingly regarded as evil. As a result, teaching the faith and defending Christian ethics has become much more difficult. To address this challenge at its root, I believe it is vital that we remind ourselves of the extent to which the Catholic faith is a force for good in the world. Jesus said: “You will know them by their fruits,” and even some outside the Church appreciate her fruitfulness. In 2007, for example, an atheist businessman, Robert Wilson, gave $22.5 million (£13.5 million) to Catholic education in New York, arguing that, “without the Roman Catholic Church, there would be no western civilisation.” Inspired by Wilson’s insight, I have been working recently with Fr Marcus Holden, parish priest of Ramsgate and a tutor at Maryvale, to collate the extraordinary contributions of Catholic culture and Catholic minds. The following sections provide some samples of this work, which should be invaluable to anyone who is faced with the question: “What has the Church ever done for us?” For a more complete account of the fruitfulness of the Catholic faith in these and many other fields, see Lumen: The Catholic Gift to Civilisation, published January 2011 by the Catholic Truth Society. Fr Andrew Pinsent is a priest of the diocese of Arundel and Brighton and Research Director of the Ian Ramsey Centre for Science and Religion at Oxford University. He was formerly a particle physicist at CERN. He is co-founder, with Fr Marcus Holden, of the Evangelium Project, which is dedicated to improving the quality of Catholic education. See www.evangelium.co.uk. 1. Light and the cosmos The Opus Maius (1267) of the Franciscan Roger Bacon (d 1292), written at the request of Pope Clement IV, largely initiated the tradition of optics in the Latin world. The first spectacles were invented in Italy around 1300, an application of lenses that developed later into telescopes and microscopes. While many people think of Galileo (d 1642) being persecuted, they tend to forget the peculiar circumstances of these events, or the fact that he died in his bed and his daughter became a nun. The Gregorian Calendar (1582), now used worldwide, is a fruit of work by Catholic astronomers, as is the development of astrophysics by the spectroscopy of Fr Angelo Secchi (d 1878). Most remarkably, the most important theory of modern cosmology, the Big Bang, was invented by a Catholic priest, Fr Georges Lemaître (d 1966, pictured), a historical fact that is almost never mentioned by the BBC or in popular science books. 2. Earth and nature Catholic civilisation has made a remarkable contribution to the scientific investigation and mapping of the earth, producing great explorers such as Marco Polo (d 1324), Prince Henry the Navigator (d 1460), Bartolomeu Dias (d 1500), Christopher Columbus (d 1506) and Ferdinand Magellan (d 1521). Far from believing that the world was flat (a black legend invented in the 19th century), the Catholic world produced the first modern scientific map: Diogo Ribeiro’s Padrón Real (1527). Fr Nicolas Steno (d 1686) was the founder of stratigraphy, the interpretation of rock strata which is one of the principles of geology. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (d 1829), a French Catholic, developed the first theory of evolution, including the notion of the transmutation of species and a genealogical tree. The Augustinian monk Gregor Mendel (d 1884, pictured) founded the science of genetics based on the meticulous study of the inherited characteristics of some 29,000 pea plants. 3. Philosophy and theology Catholicism regards philosophy as intrinsically good and was largely responsible for founding theology, the application of reason to what has been revealed supernaturally. Great Catholic philosophers include St Augustine (d 430), St Thomas Aquinas (d 1274), St Anselm (d 1109), Blessed Duns Scotus (d 1308), Suárez (d 1617) and Blaise Pascal (d 1662). Recent figures include St Edith Stein (d 1942, pictured), Elizabeth Anscombe (d 2001) and Alasdair MacIntyre. On the basis that God is a God of reason and love, Catholics have defended the irreducibility of the human person to matter, the principle that created beings can be genuine causes of their own actions, free will, the role of the virtues in happiness, objective good and evil, natural law and the principle of non-contradiction. These principles have had an incalculable influence on intellectual life and culture. 4. Education and the university system Perhaps the greatest single contribution to education to emerge from Catholic civilisation was the development of the university system. Early Catholic universities include Bologna (1088); Paris (c 1150); Oxford (1167, pictured); Salerno (1173); Vicenza (1204); Cambridge (1209); Salamanca (1218-1219); Padua (1222); Naples (1224) and Vercelli (1228). By the middle of the 15th-century (more than 70 years before the Reformation), there were over 50 universities in Europe. Many of these universities, such as Oxford, still show signs of their Catholic foundation, such as quadrangles modelled on monastic cloisters, gothic architecture and numerous chapels. Starting from the sixth-century Catholic Europe also developed what were later called grammar schools and, in the 15th century, produced the movable type printing press system, with incalculable benefits for education. Today, it has been estimated that Church schools educate more than 50 million students worldwide. 5. Art and architecture Faith in the Incarnation, the Word made Flesh and the Sacrifice of the Mass have been the founding principles of extraordinary Catholic contributions to art and architecture. These contributions include: the great basilicas of ancient Rome; the work of Giotto (d 1337), who initiated a realism in painting the Franciscan Stations of the Cross, which helped to inspire three-dimensional art and drama; the invention of one-point linear perspective by Brunelleschi (d 1446) and the great works of the High Renaissance. The latter include the works of Blessed Fra Angelico (d 1455), today the patron saint of art, and the unrivalled work of Leonardo da Vinci (d 1519), Raphael (d 1520), Caravaggio (d 1610, pictured), Michelangelo (d 1564) and Bernini (d 1680). Many of the works of these artists, such as the Sistine Chapel ceiling, are considered among the greatest works of art of all time. Catholic civilisation also founded entire genres, such as Byzantine, Romanesque, Gothic, High Renaissance and Baroque architecture. The Cristo Redentor statue in Brazil and the Sagrada Familia basilica in Barcelona show that the faith continues to be an inspiration for highly original art and architecture. 6. Law and jurisprudence The reforms of Pope Gregory VII (d 1085, pictured) gave impetus to forming the laws of the Church and states of Europe. The subsequent application of philosophy to law, together with the great works of monks like the 12th-century Gratian, produced the first complete, systematic bodies of law, in which all parts are viewed as interacting to form a whole. This revolution also led to the founding of law schools, starting in Bologna (1088), from which the legal profession emerged, and concepts such as “corporate personality”, the legal basis of a wide range of bodies today such as universities, corporations and trust funds. Legal principles such as “good faith”, reciprocity of rights, equality before the law, international law, trial by jury, habeas corpus and the obligation to prove an offence beyond a reasonable doubt are all fruits of Catholic civilisation and jurisprudence. 7. Language The centrality of Greek and Latin to Catholicism has greatly facilitated popular literacy, since true alphabets are far easier to learn than the symbols of logographic languages, such as Chinese. Spread by Catholic missions and exploration, the Latin alphabet is now the most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world. Catholics also developed the Armenian, Georgian and Cyrillic alphabets and standard scripts, such as Carolingian minuscule from the ninth to 12th centuries, and Gothic miniscule (from the 12th). Catholicism also provided the cultural framework for the Divina Commedia (Divine Comedy), the Cantar de Mio Cid (“The Song of my Lord”) and La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland), vernacular works that greatly influenced the development of Italian, Spanish and French respectively. The Catholic Hymn of Cædmon in the seventh century is arguably the oldest extant text of Old English. Valentin Haüy (d 1822), brother of the Abbé Haüy (the priest who invented crystallography), founded the first school for the blind. The most famous student of this school, Louis Braille (d 1852), developed the worldwide system of writing for the blind that today bears his name. 8. Music Catholic civilisation virtually invented the western musical tradition, drawing on Jewish antecedents in early liturgical music. Monophonic Gregorian chant developed from the sixth century. Methods for recording chant led to the invention of musical notion (staff notation), of incalculable benefit for the recording of music, and the ut-re-mi (“do-re-mi”) mnemonic device of Guido of Arezzo (d 1003). From the 10th century cathedral schools developed polyphonic music, extended later to as many as 40 voices (Tallis, Spem in Alium) and even 60 voices (Striggio, Missa Sopra Ecco). Musical genres that largely or wholly originated with Catholic civilisation include the hymn, the oratorio and the opera. Haydn (d 1809), a devout Catholic, strongly shaped the development of the symphony and string quartet. Church patronage and liturgical forms shaped many works by Monteverdi (d 1643), Vivaldi (d 1741), Mozart (d 1791, pictured) and Beethoven (d 1827). The great Symphony No 8 of Mahler (d 1911) takes as its principal theme the ancient hymn of Pentecost, Veni creator spiritus. 9. The status of women Contrary to popular prejudice, extraordinary and influential women have been one of the hallmarks of Catholic civilisation. The faith has honoured many women saints, including recent Doctors of the Church, and nurtured great nuns, such as St Hilda (d 680, pictured) (after whom St Hilda’s College, Oxford, is named) and Blessed Hildegard von Bingen (d 1179), abbess and polymath. Pioneering Catholic women in political life include Empress Matilda (d 1167), Eleanor of Aquitaine (d 1204) and the first Queen of England, Mary Tudor (d 1558). Catholic civilisation also produced many of the first women scientists and professors: Trotula of Salerno in the 11th century, Dorotea Bucca (d 1436), who held a chair in medicine at the University of Bologna, Elena Lucrezia Piscopia (d 1684), the first woman to receive a Doctor of Philosophy degree (1678) and Maria Agnesi (d 1799), the first woman to become professor of mathematics, who was appointed by Pope Benedict XIV as early as 1750. END QUOTES Commentary: History shows contributions of Catholic Church to Western civilization By Thomas E. Woods The Free Lance-Star (Fredericksburg, Va.) Published: December 28, 2011 5:00 am TOPEKA, Kan. — About the least fashionable thing one can do these days is utter a kind word about the Catholic Church. The idea that the church has been an obstacle to human progress has been elevated to the level of something everybody thinks he knows. But to the contrary, it is to the Catholic Church more than to any other institution that we owe so many of the treasures of Western civilization. Knowingly or not, scholars operated for two centuries under an Enlightenment prejudice that assumes all progress to come from religious skeptics, and that whatever the church touches is backward, superstitious, even barbaric. Since the mid-20th century, this unscholarly prejudice has thankfully begun to melt away, and professors of a variety of religious backgrounds, or none at all, increasingly acknowledge the church's contributions. Nowhere has the revision of what we thought we knew been more dramatic than in the study of the history of science. We all remember what we learned in fourth grade: While scientists were bravely trying to uncover truths about the universe and improve our quality of life, stupid churchmen who hated reason and simply wanted the faithful to shut up and obey placed a ceaseless stream of obstacles in their path. That was where the conventional wisdom stood just over a century ago, with the publication of Andrew Dickson White's book, "A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom," in 1896. And that's where most Americans (and Europeans, for that matter) believe it still stands. But there is scarcely a historian of science in America who would endorse this comic-book version of events today. To the contrary, modern historians of science freely acknowledge the church's contributions — both theoretical and material — to the Scientific Revolution. It was the church's worldview that insisted the universe was orderly and operated according to certain fixed laws. Only buoyed with that confidence would it have made sense to bother investigating the physical world in the first place, or even to develop the scientific method (which can work only in an orderly world). It's likewise a little tricky to claim the church has been an implacable foe of the sciences when so many priests were accomplished scientists. The first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body was Father Giambattista Riccioli. The man who has been called the father of Egyptology was Father Athanasius Kircher. Father Roger Boscovich, who has been described as "the greatest genius that Yugoslavia ever produced," has often been called the father of modern atomic theory. In the sciences it was the Jesuits in particular who distinguished themselves; some 35 craters on the moon, in fact, are named after Jesuit scientists and mathematicians. By the 18th century, writes historian Jonathan Wright, the Jesuits "had contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes, and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics, and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula, and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light." Their achievements likewise included "star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics." These were the great opponents of human progress? Seismology, the study of earthquakes, has been so dominated by Jesuits that it has become known as "the Jesuit science." It was a Jesuit, Father J.B. Macelwane, who wrote the first seismology textbook in America in 1936. To this day, the American Geophysical Union, which Macelwane once headed, gives an annual medal named after this brilliant priest to a promising young geophysicist. The Jesuits were also the first to introduce Western science into such far-off places as China and India. In 17th-century China in particular, Jesuits introduced a substantial body of scientific knowledge and a vast array of mental tools for understanding the physical universe, including the Euclidean geometry that made planetary motion comprehensible. Jesuits made important contributions to the scientific knowledge and infrastructure of other less developed nations not only in Asia but also in Africa and Central and South America. Beginning in the 19th century, these continents saw the opening of Jesuit observatories that studied such fields as astronomy, geomagnetism, meteorology, seismology and solar physics. Such observatories provided these places with accurate time keeping, weather forecasts (particularly important in the cases of hurricanes and typhoons), earthquake risk assessments and cartography. The early church also institutionalized the care of widows, orphans, the sick and the poor in ways unseen in classical Greece or Rome. Even her harshest critics, from the fourth-century emperor Julian the Apostate all the way to Martin Luther and Voltaire, conceded the church's enormous contributions to the relief of human misery. The spirit of Catholic charity — that we help those in need not out of any expectation of reciprocity, but as a pure gift, and that we even help those who might not like us — finds no analogue in classical Greece and Rome, but it is this idea of charity that we continue to embrace today. The university was an utterly new phenomenon in European history. Nothing like it had existed in ancient Greece or Rome. The institution that we recognize today, with its faculties, courses of study, examinations and degrees, as well as the familiar distinction between undergraduate and graduate study, come to us directly from the medieval world. By the time of the Reformation, no secular government had chartered more universities than the church. Edward Grant, who has written on medieval science for Cambridge University Press, points out that intellectual life was robust and debate was vigorous at these universities — the very opposite of the popular presumption. It is no surprise that the church should have done so much to foster and protect the nascent university system, since the church, according to historian Lowrie Daly, "was the only institution in Europe that showed consistent interest in the preservation and cultivation of knowledge." Until the mid-20th century, the history of economic thought started, more or less, with the 18th century and Adam Smith. But beginning with Joseph Schumpeter, the great economist and historian of his field, scholars have begun to point instead to the 16th-century Catholic theologians at Spain's University of Salamanca as the originators of modern economics. And the list goes on. I can already hear the complaint: What about these awful things the church did that I heard about in school? For one thing, isn't it a little odd that we never heard any of the material I've presented here in school? Doesn't that seem a trifle unfair? But although an episode like the medieval Inquisition has been dramatically scaled back in scope and cruelty by recent scholarship — the University of California at Berkeley, not exactly a bastion of traditional Catholicism, published a book substantially revising popular view — it is not my subject here. My aim is to point out, as I do in my book "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization," how indebted we are, without realizing it, to an institution popular culture teaches us to despise. END QUOTES 11 Amazing Catholic Scientists You Should Know SHAUN MCAFEEJUNE 19, 2015 When it comes the Catholic Church and science all we tend to hear about is the Galileo affair. St. John Paul II apologized for various aspects the Church’s handling of Galileo, but it is a lot more complicated than post-modern scientists like to let on. Galileo is a way for Rationalists to assault faith. It is to paint the Church as anti-science and superstitious. To be sure, there are some Christians who are anti-science, who have accepted a false concordism. That is not the Catholic Church’s position. In fact, the Church has its own scientific wing, namely the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, which not only welcomes the work of Catholics, but people of many faiths, including atheists. For now let’s abandon this tired narrative and look at 11 groundbreaking Catholic scientists, many of whom were priests.* 1. Copernicus (1473–1543) Remember Copernicus?! The Catholic priest who practiced medicine and then went into astronomy developing heliocentrism. He discovered that the earth is not the center of the universe, not even of this solar system. He is believed to have entered the priesthood later in life. His contributions to astronomy revolutionized the field and the world. 2. Albertus Magnus, O.P. (before 1200 – 1280) What’s a list of major intellectual achievements without a Dominican or two on the list?! Fr. Albertus Magnus is the patron saint of the natural sciences and a Doctor of the Church because of his great work in in physics, logic, metaphysics, biology, and psychology. 3. Georges Lemaître (1894–1966) Fr. Lemaitre with his colleague, Albert Einstein. Belgian priest and father of the Big Bang Theory. Fr. Lemaitre was a contemporary of, and based his work on Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity. Lemaitre also spent time serving as the Director of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. 4. Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) Gregor Mendel was an Augustinian Friar who was the founder of the modern science of genetics. Yep! The study of genetics was started by a Catholic priest. If you have taken a science class and had to learn the terms “recessive” and “dominant” it is thanks to Fr. Mendel. 5. Giuseppe Mercalli (1850–1914) Priest, volcanologist, and director of the Vesuvius Observatory who is best remembered today for his Mercalli scale for measuring earthquakes which is still in use. Yes, the scientific inquiry of Catholics knows no bounds, even volcanoes and earthquakes have been studied. 6. William of Ockham (c. 1288 – c. 1348) Have you heard of Ockham’s Razor? He is the Franciscan Scholastic who wrote significant works on logic, physics, and theology; known for Ockham’s Razor. Yet, another Catholic priest’s whose work had a huge impact on the natural sciences. 7. Giovanni Battista Riccioli (1598–1671) Jesuit astronomer who authored Almagestum novum, an influential encyclopedia of astronomy. He was the first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body; created a selenograph with Father Grimaldi who now adorns the entrance at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. Catholic priests remembered at the Smithsonian! 8. Francesco Maria Grimaldi (1618 – 1663) There are a lot of Jesuit priest-scientists! Fr. Grimaldi was an Italian Jesuit priest, mathematician and physicist who taught at the Jesuit college in Bologna. A crater on the moon is named Grimaldi after him. 9. Nicolas Steno (1638-1686) Nicholas Steno made great strides in anatomy and geology. He eventually became a Catholic Bishop. Various parts of the body are named after him: Stensen’s duct, Stensen’s gland, Stensen’s vein, and Stensen’s foramina. He is also the founder of the study of fossils. 10. George V. Coyne, S.J. (born January 19, 1933) George Coyne, S.J. wiki imageMount Graham International Observatory (MGIO) is one of the observatories used for the Vatican’s scientific inquiries. How about somebody current? Fr. Coyne is a Jesuit priest, astronomer, and former director of the Vatican Observatory and head of the observatory’s research group which is based at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. Since January 2012, he has served as McDevitt Chair of Religious Philosophy at Le Moyne College in Syracuse, NY. 11. Fr. Stanley Jaki (1914-2009) Stanley Jaki, O.S.B wiki images Fr. Jaki was a Hungarian Benedictine priest and Distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey. He most notably taught that science developed out of Christianity and he bridged the divide in the manufactured division between science and faith. You can read about his teaching in the book Science Was Born of Christianity by Stacy Trasancos. One of the best ways to become more acquainted with the Catholic Church’s position on science and faith, is to read the encyclical Humani Generis as well as Fides et Ratio. The next time someone accuses the Church of being anti-science, be sure to share the great scientific advances that have occurred throughout history thanks to Catholic scientists, including a great many who were priests. SCIENCE!!!! END QUOTES For the sake of TRUTH, I would also point out that without the RCC; there would be NO “Christianity”. …The RCC is the One desired, founded, by Jesus Personally, and protected by the Holy Spirit. …Where in the Bible {a Catholic Book BTW} did God ever show a desire or even a tolerance for competing Churches and Faiths? If the RCC is not the One True Church and Faith of Jesus Himself {which is historically and Biblically provable}; then which one is; based upon what evidence. One practices prudence to exercise prayerful-wisdom when contemplating slandering the RCC, as doing so; even though unintentionally, is a direct affront on Jesus Himself. So did Jesus LIE, or is the Bible wrong? {The Apostles were ALL Catholics!} Mt. 10: 1-5 “[1] And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. [2] And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, [3] James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, [4] Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. [5] These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.” Mt. 16: 18-19 [18]And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH {singular} , and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever YOU shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever YOU shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. John 17: 17-21 “ [17] Sanctify THEM in truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent ME into the world, I also have SENT THEM into the world. [19] And FOR THEM do I sanctify myself, that THEY also may be sanctified in {MY} truth. [20] And not FOR THEM only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; [21] That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. “{Thus the RCC alone and exclusively has Jesus himself in Person as the warranty of teaching His TRUTHS, without error: no other church or faith can make this claim and evidence it!} Mt. 28:18-20 [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to THEM, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world. DOUAY BIBLE EXPLANATION:[18] "All power": See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14. Eph. 4: 1-7 [1] I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, [2] With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. [3] Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] One body {Means just One “Church”] and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. [5] One Lord, one faith, {Means precisely and exclusively THAT; Just ONE set of Faith beliefs} one baptism.[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in US ALL {Means at the time of authorship: ALL Catholics} . [7] But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.” Eph. 2: 20 “ [20] Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” Now to you POSTING: I will not bother you with a detailed response as none is warranted. However there are a few errors I’d like to point out to you; lest you spread these errors further. Before doing so I should point out that some of the items ARE Church Practices; which ARE changeable, while Doctrines are not. #7: Latin has been since the 4th Century OFFICIALLY claimed ass the “Official” language of the Church. I was a common language lone before that #10. The PRACTICE is to kiss the RING of the Pope; NOT his feet #12 Began long before the date shown #15 NEEDS to be changed to The Use of Bells in Sacred Liturgy {has nothing to do with Sacramental Baptism} #17 a Practice #21 I think you have the dates wrong: it was later than stated #22 Is biblically grounded by 5 different authors of the Bibles NT and Jesus Himself. ONLY the new theological TERM was invented; NOT the reality; NOT the Practice. #25 RESPONCE The Bible and the layman Question from Joe Bateman on 01-09-2003: I had sent this to you before but you did not respond. I don't know if it was zapped into cyberspace, or you don't have a response. I will try again: You have had many questions of late about the Roman Church and the Bible as it pertains to the laity. You insist that Rome has never withheld the Bible from the common man, I believe that history speaks against this. For example in 1229 the Council of Valencia put the Bible on the index of Forbidden books stating," We prohibit also the permitting of the laity, to have the books of the Old and New Testament, unless any one should wish to have a psalter or breviary for divine service...But we strictly forbid the above mentioned books in the vulgar tongue." The Council of Trent reaffirmed this decree. Clement XI also affirmed this in his Bull Unigenitus in 1713. I believe Leo XII in the 1890's allowed the laity to read the Bible but only the Latin Vulgate and only with permission, and the Pope forbid you try to interpret the Bible by yourself, the laity are not able. Of course they probably couldn't read Latin either. I will grant you that the Bible is and was read in the church, but only by the priest, and than with the Rome's interpretation thereof. That is an argument for another day though. (I thought God sent his Holy Spirit to guide us.) In closing, I don't see how you could say that the Bible has always been available to the Roman lay person. Thanks for your insight. God Bless Answer by Matthew Bunson on 01-10-2003: Please do not consider any comments here as a personal criticism or attack. However, as has been noted in previous postings, the historical facts and documents themselves simply do not support your contention. Owing to deliberate misinterpretations, mistranslations from the original Latin, or misunderstandings of the papal and conciliar documents, attacks such as the one you note have been made over the years. The reality is quite different. I will re-state -- Catholics have not been denied the Scriptures. The documents you cite, further, do not support the contention being made that the Church prevented Catholics from reading the Bible. I will not bore readers with every document mentioned, but I would encourage them to read several previous postings relative to the decrees of Pope Leo XIII. I will offer, by way of example, several paragraphs regarding the Scriptures from Unigenitus of 1713 by Pope Clement XI that is listed above as "proof": "84. To snatch away from the hands of Christians the New Testament, or to hold it closed against them by taking away from them the means of understanding it, is to close for them the mouth of Christ. 85. To forbid Christians to read Sacred Scripture, especially the Gospels, is to forbid the use of light to the sons of light, and to cause them to suffer a kind of excommunication." I do not think that it can be much clearer than that, and Clement was speaking from traditional and unchanging Church teachings. For anyone who thinks this might be propaganda, I encourage them to read the document for themselves at www.papalencyclicals.net or through EWTN's extensive library resources on-line. COPYRIGHT 2003 by EWTN #29 The RCC is the One & TRUE Church Founded by Jesus Himself; and is biblically {before or around 100AD} provable and also proven in secular history #31 Purgatory is in the bible right next to the term “BIBLE,” so it too dates to the 1st Century. #32 The Seven Sacraments were ALL Instituted by Jesus Christ; so they to date to the 1st Century #34 is just ignorance spread: The CC has NEVER taught what you claim here #37 in reality {the life of the Church} this dates in written form at least to the 4th Century; and was believed and practiced from the very beginning of the RCC. Your date is when it was being questioned and made a Dogma. #39 The Bible Luke 1:26-37 PROOFS Mary as the Mother of God So please make these corrections before spreading more incorrect information. Shalom! May God guide our paths, Patrick Oh! By the way: the practice is to kiss the RING of then Pope; NOT his feet. In deference of his exalted position.

Our God is truly amazing! Friend, I don't believe that I ever stated that Salvation is for Catholics only {despite the FACT that it is the One True Faith and Church Jesus desired} You are so Blessed in what Christ did for you; now perhaps you can work on the REST OD THE STORY? John.13 [34] A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 1John.2 [7] Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. [8] Yet I am writing you a new commandment, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 2John.1 [5] And now I beg you, lady, not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning, that we love one another We are to strive to LOVE one another; judge not least you ALSO be judged. Shalom! May our God guide our Life paths, Patrcik

My new friend, I am NOT in the conversions business; THAT is between you and our God. Shalom and sincere thanks for taking time to dialog May GOD guide our life paths, Patrick

Ooooh my, Would YOU be so kind as to 1. Be specific 2. Evidence your claims So that I might objectively respond to your charges? God Bless you, Patrick

Thank you my new friend; a serious reply is always appreciated. Permit me to add your education if I may: 1. One cannot separate verse 63 from the other literal and exceeding clear teaching of Jesus the Christ 2. From Haydock’s Bible commentary: 3. Verse 55 :Christ, to confirm the notion his disciples had formed of a real eating of his body, and to remove all metaphorical interpretation of his words, immediately adds, "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. ... For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed;" which could not be so, if, as sectarists pretend, what he gives us in the blessed sacrament is noting but a bit of bread; and if a figure, certainly not so striking as the manna 4. Verse 63: If then you shall see, &c. Christ, by mentioning his ascension, by this instance of his power and divinity, would confirm the truth of what he had before asserted; at the same time, correct their gross apprehension of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, in a vulgar and carnal manner, by letting them know he should take his whole body living with him to heaven; and consequently not suffer it to be, as they supposed, divided, mangled, and consumed upon earth. (Challoner) --- The sense of these words, according to the common exposition, is this: you murmur at my words, as hard and harsh, and you refuse now to believe them: when I shall ascend into heaven, from whence I came into the world, and when my ascension, and the doctrine that I have taught you, shall be confirmed by a multitude of miracles, then shall you and many others believe. (Witham) 5. Verse 68:Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? He shews them, says St. John Chrysostom, that he stood not in need of them, and so leaves them to their free choice. (Witham) --- Jesus Christ remarking in the previous verse that the apostate disciples had left him, to walk no more with him, turning to the twelve, asks them, Will you also go away? The twelve had heard all that passed; they had seen the Jews strive amongst themselves, and the disciples murmur and leave their Master; they understood what he said in the same literal sense; it could, indeed, bear no other meaning; but when Jesus put the above question to them, leaving them to their free choice, whether to follow him, or to withdraw themselves, Simon Peter answered him: "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life;" and therefore art able to make good thy words, however hard and difficult they may appear to others. --- We may here admire not only the excellency of their faith, but the plain, yet noble motive of their faith: they believe, because he is Christ, the Son of God, (or, as it is in the Greek, the Son of the living God) who is absolutely incapable of deceiving his creatures, and whose power is perfectly equal to perform the promises he here makes them. 6. Verse 69:Simon Peter, the chief or head of them, said in the name of the rest: Lord, to whom shall we go? It is only from thee that we hope for salvation. Thou hast the words of eternal life: we have believed, and known, and remain in this belief, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God. (Witham) And this from: Catholic apologetics Site: Ver. 64.—It is the spirit which quickeneth: the flesh, Arabic, the body, &c. The Calvinists bring forward against us these words of Christ to show that in the Eucharist there is not the Flesh of Christ really and corporeally, but only spiritually and figuratively by representation and faith, because, say they, the flesh profiteth nothing. But if this be true, then in vain was the Word made Flesh, then in vain did the Flesh of Christ suffer and was crucified, and died. God forbid. And who does not see that the Flesh of Christ is more profitable than the mere bread of Calvin, even though it were seasoned with sugar and honey out of Calvin’s throat? For in his bread there is no spirit, except the spirit of error and satanic madness. First then SS. Cyril and Austin learnedly expound these words, thus: they are as if Christ said, “My Flesh alone profits not to preserve him who eats It unto life eternal, because it is not My mere Flesh which confers life and resurrection, but it is the Spirit, i.e., My Divinity united to the Flesh which quickens first the soul, and then the body at the Resurrection. And thus My Flesh profiteth very exceedingly, forasmuch as being united to the Spirit of the Word, it derives from It its quickening power.” By a similar form of speech we are wont to say, The eye doth not see, the ear doth not hear, nor the body feel, but it is the spirit i.e., the soul, which sees through the eye, and hears through the ear. Consequently, the words, i.e., the reality and the mystery of My Flesh to be eaten in the Eucharist, which I speak unto you are spirit and life. That is, My Deity, which is a pure Spirit, is a living and quickening Spirit. For It will give you life in the- Eucharist, not My bare Flesh. So S. Augustine says, “This Flesh alone profiteth not, but let the Spirit be joined to the Flesh, and It profiteth greatly. For if the Flesh profiteth nothing, the Word would not have become Flesh.” The same (lib. 10, de. Civit. Dei) says, “The Flesh of itself cleanseth not, but through the Word by which it hath been assumed.” And S. Cyril, “If the Flesh be understood alone, it is by no means able to quicken, forasmuch as it needs a Quickener, but because it is conjoined with the life-giving Word, the whole is made life-giving. For the Word of God being joined to the corruptible nature does not lose Its virtue, but the Flesh itself is lifted up to the power of the higher nature. Therefore, although the nature of flesh as flesh cannot quicken; still it doth this because it hath received the whole operation of the Word.” For Christ is here making answer to the Capharnaites murmuring as to how Christ’s Flesh being eaten could give eternal life. But He gave this answer because they had murmured still more concerning the eating the flesh of Christ, and the method of doing so, which they thought of as something carnal and barbarous, as is seen by verses 52 and 60, and 61. For it seems something savage and inhuman to tear like wolves, and devour the human flesh of Christ. Hence secondly, More aptly and naturally, the flesh, i.e., the carnal understanding, by which in sooth ye suppose that My Flesh is to be visibly cut and eaten like the flesh of sheep, profits nothing for the bestowal of everlasting life: but the spirit and the spiritual intelligence, by which we believe that the Flesh of Christ united to His spiritual Divinity, i.e., in a sacramental manner, veiled and hidden in the Eucharist under the species of bread and wine, is to be eaten - this gives life to soul and body. Wherefore Christ subjoins, the words which I speak, &c.: Spirit, i.e., are spiritual, and must be understood spiritually, i.e., Sacramentally, in the manner in which I have now explained, and not carnally, as ye Capharnaites, like butchers, understand them. So they are life, i.e., vital, and bestow life on him who heareth and eateth Me. There is a hebraism, by which the abstract is put for the concrete. Thirdly, the fullest sense will be if we join both meanings previously given, and with Bede unite them into one, thus - The virtue of giving life which My Flesh eaten in the Eucharist possesses, is not derived so much from the flesh as from the Spirit of the Word which is living and life-giving. And consequently this eating of My Flesh is not to be taken in the carnal manner of butchers, but in a spiritual manner, and accommodated to the spirit, that is to say in a hidden and sacramental manner. My friend; Catholic Holy Communion is the now GLORIFIED Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Are We to assume that GOD cannot do this? To attempt to defeat ALL of John 6; 1st. Cor 11:23-30; Mt. 26: 26-28; Mk. 14:22-24; Lk. 22: 19-20 {THAT FIVE DIFFERENT AUTHORS OF THE NT ..ALL CATHOLICS BY THE WAY} So do you really presume to rewrite the Bibles God spoken; Holy Spirit Inspired; evidenced by the martyrdom of 4 of the 5 {they tried to boil John by GOD interceded teaching, further evidenced by many Eucharistic MIRACLES {GOOGLE IT} Further the Bible {a Catholic Birthed book by Catholics and assembled and authored at that time; exclusively FOR Catholics} can only be correctly translated by the Magisterium of the RCC. {Mt. 16: 18-19; John 17: 17-20; Mt 28:19-20; Eph. 4:5; Eph 2:20 for examples. … John 17:19; Rightly understood means that Jesus {GOD} Himself is the warranty of the RCC teaching ONLY His Truths on all matters of Faith and Morals: [19] “And for THEM do I sanctify myself, that THEY also may be sanctified in {my} truth.” 2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise aS As for Hebrews 6 which you think I mistranslate; My friend, I would point out these facts for you to prove to be false: 1 The Bible is a Catholic Birthed Book 2 The Bible’s OT; all 46 books were chosen my Catholic Fathers Inspired by the HS {2 Tm 3:16-17}; and the Bibles NT; 27 books, was fully authored by men known today to be Catholics 3 The Bibles Canon, still in place today was affirmed in the late 4th Century; still about 1,000 years prior to the Reformation. 4 the Apostles are ALL Catholics 5 hence it is grammatically, historically and factually correct to claim that the Bible was by the Holy Spirits original intent; BY catholics and exclusively for Catholics 6 It seems inconceivable that the Early Fathers {Catholics ALL} would have foreseen the Great Easter Schism of 1054 AD; or the 16th Century Protestant Revolution. 7 Logic would also then affirm that the men who put the Bible together; would quite naturally be the ONLY ones able to fully and correctly translate it. So now my friend I will share with you a Bible commentarie on Hebrew 6: Haydock’s Bible commentary: “Verse 1-2 Wherefore leaving the word, &c. This is to be taken as connected with what he had said in the last chapter, (ver. 12.) of the elements, or rudiments of Christian faith, concerning which, though some seemed not sufficiently instructed, yet he thinks it here enough to name them, and pass them over: to wit, 1. Penance, or the dispositions of a sincere repentance. 2. Faith,when they are come to the years of being instructed. 3. The doctrine of baptisms, which he expresseth in the plural number, either because all the faithful must be baptized once, if we speak of Christian baptism; or he means that persons ought to know they cannot receive Christ's baptism over again. Or, in fine, he means that the baptisms of the Jews, which they so frequently repeated, could not make them justified. 4. The doctrine of imposition of hands, by which is commonly expounded that which is given in the sacrament of confirmation. 5. Of the resurrection of the dead. 6. Of the judgment, by which God would judge all mankind. Of these things he supposeth them already instructed. (Witham) --- We see here the order in which the apostles taught the Christian doctrine to the catechumens: 1. They excited them to sorrow for their sins. 2. They required of them acts of faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. 3. They explained the nature of Christ's baptism, its virtue, and difference from the baptism of [John] the Baptist and others. 4. After baptism, they laid their hands on them, that they might receive the strengthening grace of the Holy Ghost in confirmation; and finally, they excited them to perseverance, by the hope of a glorious resurrection, and of eternal life, and by setting before their eyes eternal damnation as the consequence of apostacy.” “Your explanation of Hebrews is really poor exegesis. It has nothing to do with falling away from the Catholic church. It might have something to do with falling away from Christ. The Catholic church is not Christ and has in fact fallen away from the teaching of the Bible; it corrupts its meaning to justify itself.” REALLY? I’ll break it down for you: Hebrews 6: [4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated,{SACRAMENTASLLY BAPTIZED] have tasted also the heavenly gift,[CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION:JESUS HIMSELF}and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SACRAMENTALLY CONFIRMED; WHICH BTW CREATES A PERSONAL COVENANT OBLIGATION} [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, [HAVE BEEN RIGHTLY TAUGHT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES AND MEANS} and the powers of the world to come, DOUAY Bible explanations: [1] "The word of the beginning": The first rudiments of the Christian doctrine. [4] "It is impossible": The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell. [6] And are fallen away:[ HAVE IGNORANC E & AUDUSITY TO LITERALLY ABANON GOD IN JESUS THE CHRIST] to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt. {WITHOUT REPENTANCE AND RECONVERSION THESE SOULS SELF CONDEM THEMSELVES TO ETERNAL HELL. How can one be assured of this reality? May I humbly suggest you read number 1 through 7 above. I TRULY appreciate your taking the time to communicate your thoughts with me; however they are not able to be supported by evidence; hence they are subjective while my reply is evidenced making it objective reality. May God Guide our paths, Patrick

Your first statement is conditional; and NOT a sure thing. Your second statement is ignorant {meaning grossly uninformed. So I ASK YOU my friend: was Jesus wrong or is it the Bible that is wrong? {I'd REALLY like to know your answer. I suspect that your only parroting others views here, and its not something you have bothered to research yourself. How then do you explain these? John 6: 47-60 {which BTW are literal} " [47] Amen, amen {often translated as "truly; truly"} I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. [48] I am the bread of life. [49] Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. [50] This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. [53] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [54] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. [Douay Bible explanation:[54] "Eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood": To receive the body and blood of Christ, is a divine precept, insinuated in this text; which the faithful fulfil, though they receive but in one kind; because in one kind they receive both body and blood, which cannot be separated from each other. Hence, life eternal is here promised to the worthy receiving, though but in one kind. Ver. 52. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh for the life of the world. Ver. 58. He that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. Ver. 59. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. [56] For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. [57] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. {Which is precisely & accurately what DOES take place in Catholic Holy Communion} [58] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. [59] This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. Then your favorite Bible author Paul {WE LOVE him too} teaches this: 1 Cor. 11: 23-30 [23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. [24] And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. [25] In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. [26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. [30] Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. {"sleep" here means Eternal Damnation} Douay Bible explanations: [27] "Or drink": Here erroneous translators corrupted the text, by putting and drink (contrary to the original) instead of or drink. [27] "Guilty of the body": not discerning the body. This demonstrates the real presence of the body and blood of Christ, even to the unworthy communicant; who otherwise could not be guilty of the body and blood of Christ, or justly condemned for not discerning the Lord's body. [28] "Drink of the chalice": This is not said by way of command, but by way of allowance, viz., where and when it is agreeable to the practice and discipline of the church. Now GOOGLE Eucharistic Miracles Then my new friend, please tell ME is Jesus Lying or is the Bible in error? May God guide our paths, Patrick

OK? I'm a reasonable guy. Just HOW to you prove your theory? 1. Given that the Bible is a Catholic birthed book. It was Catholics who choose the 46 OT books Inspired by the Holy Spirit; and it is Catholics who authored the entire NT. 2. Because the Bible was fully authored by the end of the 1st Century {about 1,400 years before the Protestant Reformation}, it is logically clear that the bible is a Catholic Book assembled and authored for other Catholics 3. The Only Christians for about the first 1,000 years; were Catholic Christians 4. The Apostles were Catholics I could go on but this is sufficient to disprove your theory. May God guide our paths, God Bless you and THANKS, Patrick

Thank you Mike, I to will pray for him. I'll also pray he finds my POST and that it is beneficial to him. God Bless, Patrick

The OP {OP's name forgotten} was from the "Outlooks" Forum which I could not respond too. Exactly WHY, is still a mystery. The STRING has been either deleted or moved? The OP's POST was lengthy and detailed, pleading for an answer to his "loosing belief in GOD" I had hoped to respond to each issue raised individually; but alas, could not on that FORUM. So I posted this in what I believe to be the correct FORUM, prayerfully hoping that the OP might discover it and gain a benefit from it. Thank you for your reply Mike, God Bless you, Patricjk So I posted in the prayerful bope the OP of that string would discover

How to believe in god again? I come here genuinely seeking instructions. I used to believe in God, and the idea of hell scared the **** Welcome! The Good news is that: [1] God hasn’t disappeared [2] And Still love’s YOU very much So how can WE know that God exist? Look in the mirror and you’ll see a dim image of Him. Genesis 1:26-27 “26] “And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. [27] And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.” While this is telling; it is a incomplete “picture” of just how unique; how special this is: Gen 2: 7 “ [7] And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” It is, or at least ought to be notable that while the entire Universe and all the other “things” {hundreds of millions of them} were “Willed” into existence {Gen 1: 3 & 9}; but God so highly regarded humanity that He made “man” out of something. Then as if that were not enough He GOD breathed “the breath of LIFE” into him, so that man became “a LIVING Soul.”. So humanity in all of the created UNIVERSE alone IS created in the very image of our God. John 4:23-24 sorta confuses the issue of just how then does humanity {physical & immortal} emulate GOD who is: [23]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. [24] God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. So we are physical and mortal, while our God is Spirit and immortal. Notice in Gen. 2: 7 we are told that “man became a living Soul.” …. This is a literal teaching. Man alone is “rational”; meaning ONLY humanity has a mind, intellect and freewill. Thus man is created to freely choose to Know; to Love, to Serve, and to Worship God as we are the only things that are able to know and Love God; or to deny and hate God. That’s what it boils bow to. So man alone in the BILLIONS of things in the Universe is uniquely endowed to know that GOD does exist. This then is the evidence of God looking back at US when we look into a mirror. So then YOU my new friend ARE the evidence that GOD does exist May God Bless and Guide your path. I’ll address your other concerns is subsequent POST to keep them as brief as possible. Patrick Part II of Patrick’s reply I lived in constant (overwhelming) anxiety due to the fear of not being a good enough Christian and going to hell. I thought there was no way there was NO god, but I did fear I may be worshipping the wrong one. So I started looking at other religions; talking to people of different faiths, reading, watching debates, etc. Once I started watching debates, I began watching debates that involved atheists. My mind was blown by how much sense they made to me, and they seemed to be the only people who could intellectually take down people of non-Christian faiths, but then later started watching them debate Christians. I hated the fact that they made sense because I felt that even though they made sense God was still there and was going to punish me if it made too much sense. But eventually, after hearing enough arguments I had never heard before, learning more about evolution that I never knew, and taking a step back and realizing that I fundamentally disagree with many of the morals preached in the Bible, that I was gonna drop it entirely. REPLY Several points need be made here: Heaven, hell and even purgatory {and YES it is Biblical} exist because God in order to be GOD; can only be fair and just: “Actions HAVE consequences” Because humanity alone in all of the Universe CAN {is able to} choose good or evil; GOD our Creator MUST reward good and punish evil, God MUST judge our choices. Sir. 15: 17 “[17] Before a man are life and death, and whichever he chooses will be given to him.” So fear of hell is not only acceptable’ it is prudent. {Denial will not diminish hells existence, and eternity is forever; but life is brief.} As for making sense: ask your atheist how humanities freewill, minds {not meaning our brains}; intellects {not meaning ones “I/Q.”} and freewill “evolved.” Then ask them to delineate their “freewill”: what is its size, color, weight and shape? Can’t be done yet only a fool would deny their existence. Then ask: how did “LIFE” itself evolve? Where did the stuff for the “Big BANG” come from? The tendered explanation that it “always existed” is an excuse, not a objectively or even scientifically provable hypothesis. Man’s “Living and RATIONAL Soul” {Gen. 2:7} are spiritual realties similar to God; being a Spirit & immortal {hence we ought to FEAR hell.} End part II Reply by Patrick I never, and still don't, have a "Jesus shaped hole" in my heart. But, unfortunately, society at large (especially in America) REALLY doesn't like atheists. REPLY Part III by Patrick In Christianity “liking” is not an option. Luke.6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them” … John.13: 34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” It is the failure of LOGIC, not something personal, that we dislike {actually distrust is a more accurate term}. The Universe exist precisely in order that all humanity; applying our GOD-LIKE gifts of mind, intellect and freewill Can, could and should be able to grasp {as even the most primitives throughout the ages have always done}recognize that a superior being; a mysterious intelligent and all-powerful- force HAS to exist. It’s only personal when atheist make it such. God Bless and guide your path, Patrick End of REPLY Part III by Patrick REPLY Part IV by Patrick When I used to go to church they acted as if they were synonymous with demons. I, along with everyone around me, thought similarly at the time. REPLY IV by Patrick WOW! What “church” was that? Are WE to understand that YOU believe In Demons but not God; or am I missing something here? REPLY CONTINUED I figured anybody who didn't believe in God was evil, or at the very least far morally inferior to an average Christian. Unbelief is not “evil”; it is though self -inflicted ignorance; hence not a quality to be admired or emulated. REPLY CONTINUED Well, my morals haven't changed one bit. I'm still just as nice, polite, and well-intentioned as I was before. So are all of the non-believers I've ever met. It now seems as though it never really shaped my morals... I just thought it did. Still, Christians hate atheists. REPLY: ahhhh, we already covered that. Most Americans are Christians. I'm pretty much an outcast to everyone who knows and actually cares. REPLY CONTINUED My friend, I think you’re making an erroneous assumption here. We may, or may-not NOT actually “know”; nevertheless, we Do as a group of Believers Care a great deal. It really only started to bother me because this is now true among my family and with a girl I've fallen in love with. After one big debate on Christmas break with my WHOLE family that my mother triggered, everyone in my family knows and everyone acts weird around me. REPLY CONTINUED That’s a GUT reaction; not a Christian response. The acting weird is NOT “weird” it’s incomprehensible to us though LOGIC & Faith. REPLY CONTINUED The girl I love told me she loves me, but she can't be with someone who isn't following Christ. And THAT is illogical why? There are literally BILLIONS who DO believe that Jesus is God; is LORD. Can they ALL be wrong? END REPLY IV by Patrick We still talk every day because our feelings are so strong for each other but she thinks that she's not supposed to be with me even though she loves every single other thing about me. REPLY Part V by Patrick So my friend; if, as you say your “feeling are so strong”; why do you not consider her views; her beliefs. ANY mixed marriage between a true Believer and a true unbeliever almost assuredly condemns that marriage to failure. WHY? Because as one who has been married for 50 years; marriage; even a good marriage like mine is a ROCKY road. Men and women differ far more than in just physical differences. The BATTLES such a mixed marriage portends on the upbringing of the children will, be assuredly horrendous. I want to believe. I really do. Seriously. But, I don't want it to give me anxiety that's so hardcore that I have constant panic attacks. AND, I've dug so deep into the "God vs No God" debates that I feel like I've heard pretty much every argument from both sides because I haven't found a new one from either side in sooooooo long and it's just super repetitive at this point. To me, it seems as though atheists won the argument. REPLY CONTINUED Is that statement still true after the evidence I’ve shared? Is there somebody who has some unique take, or can tell me something I probably don't know, or ANYTHING at all that could convince me that God is real again? I'm not trying to "debate" and show you how smart I am. I genuinely want somebody to change my mind and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. REPLY CONTINUED God willing the evidence I have lovingly shared; CAN do that for you. And please understand; I’m not debating; I’m sharing evidence that there is God and that GOD Loves you. END REPLY part V by Patrick I have this conversation a lot, and depending on who I'm having it with I'll pretty much say "please convince me" and whenever I ask a question that's too hard I'll either get "God works in mysterious ways" or "You just have to have faith." BS. Please, somebody, have a conversation with me like a human being and don't get all robotic trying to show off how pious you are and don't dodge any questions. REPLY Part VI by Patrick To be convinced use the God installed attributes HE gave YOU; Be logical. I’ve provided logical, verifiable evidence of GOD, if you are OBJECTIVELY logical. Which only you my friend can control. [1] In the entire Universe; only humanity can be objectively proven to be rational. [2] There ARE Billions of stars planets and galaxies; but only ONE; only planet earth have a sun and a moon {essential for life} in their galaxies. Purposefully Placed there by GOD to support earths millions of Life-forms; humanity being the ONLY Rational one. Get your girlfriends bible out and read Genesis 1:3-5. If I have “dodged” ANY questions PLEAS point it out to me. I’m trying to be thorough for you. Don't ask me if I've, "talked to God about it." I've tried. A lot. Even after I've proclaimed nonbelief. I'm sick of people leaving my life over this. Even if you can't convince me that God is real, can somebody please convince me that he's good so I can maybe fake it till I make it at some point. Please. REPLY CONTINUED Say this brief prayer daily: God if you’re real; make yourself known to ME. Here are some questions YOU need to ask yourself: [1] How did any form of evolution make inanimate objects Live? Look up the definition of “soul”; one of the definitions will be along the lines of: “that which animates all life” Here’s a definition of the human {the only rational; the only “Living Soul”} Genesis 2:7 “SOUL. The spiritual immortal part in human beings that animates their body. Though a substance in itself, the soul is naturally ordained toward a body; separated, it is an "incomplete" substance. The soul has no parts, it is therefore simple, but it is not without accidents. The faculties are its proper accidents. Every experience adds to its accidental form. It is individually created for each person by God and infused into the body at the time of human insemination. It is moreover created in respect to the body it will inform, so that the substance of bodily features and of mental characteristics insofar as they depend on organic functions is safeguarded. As a simple and spiritual substance, the soul cannot die. Yet it is not the total human nature, since a human person is composed of body animated by the soul. In philosophy, animals and plants are also said to have souls, which operate as sensitive and vegetative principles of life. Unlike the human spirit, these souls are perishable. The rational soul contains all the powers of the two other souls and is the origin of the sensitive and vegetative functions in the human being.” [2] How does atheism explain the exclusive rationality of humanity? [3] WHY does humanity as a rational entity even exist? Being one in many BILLIONS there logically HAS to be a precise reason. {Isaiah 43: 7 & 21} [4] WHY does the universe exist IF NOT so that rational humanity can, could and should know of God [or at least gods]? [5] Logically; I repeat; LOGICALLY, there had to be a first cause. If not God; what? [6] God is rational; humanity is exclusively, logically, scientifically verifiably rational. If God is not the source for this commingling of humanity alone being BOTH physical with a Spirit-eternal-rational soul which explains in great part WHY humanity exist; then why my new friend have hundreds of thousands; perhaps even millions in the past 2,000 years sacrificed their very life’s in defense of the God belief? [7] Why are their literally BILLIONS of Christians and Catholics; can we all be wrong? And that number is in OUR present times. {Disprove logically}. [8] Explain miracles [9] How many atheist martyrs have there been in the past 2,000 years. I’ll leave you with something I learned in High School some 50+ years ago: [10] Humanity is the source of evil in the world; WHAT is the source of goodness and LOVE? Shakespeare said: “TO THY OWN SELF BE TRUE” … good advice that! Love GOD more than your girlfriend and KEEP ALL of God’s commandments, precepts and ordinances and you will have NO reason to fear hell. May God Guide your path. Patrick

ONE God; One Faith; two priesthoods Not too long ago I was invited to assist a Catholic Answers Forum contact with a new “Christian” site he was having difficulty proving our faith to. I won’t mention the name of it, as many “Christians” there seemed to have missed the primary bible-teaching that Christ was LOVE. The attacks on me personally were frequent; ill-informed, and loaded with a great personal-degree of widely scattered hatred. While in this site though several of the attackers took the position that they were “PRIEST”; by implication, every-bit as empowered as were the Apostles and today’s Catholic Priest; {by the “catholic definition.} I knew the reply & the difference, but trying to explain it to fanatical-self identified- “Christians” didn’t seem like the most prudent course of action. Because these “Christians”; {without Love can anyone truly be termed a “Christian?” I think not. At least not rightly so.} Many of whom seem to have been exporting other people’s hatred; without personal {prayerful} reflection; and clearly being personally uniformed. …. I was reminded of the great need for US to pray regularly for them. I hasten to point out though that I am in daily contact with many non-Catholic-Christians who would put a great many Catholics to shame in their beliefs, personal piety, and deep love of Jesus and the shared-practice of their faiths. And what a JOY this is. While there is a sense; and even biblical evidence that we “all – are- priest”; the bible never teaches that we are of the same –priesthood. Indeed the evidence is clear that there are two distinct priesthoods. One of the God-chosen; Ordained and anointed; and then the priesthood of the rest of us. Exod.28:[1] "Then bring near to you Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the people of Israel, to serve me as priests -- Aaron and Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abi'hu, Elea'zar and Ith'amar. Exod.29:[28] It shall be for Aaron and his sons as a perpetual due from the people of Israel, for it is the priests' portion to be offered by the people of Israel from their peace offerings; it is their offering to the LORD. …. [44] I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar; Aaron also and his sons I will consecrate, to serve me as priests. Num.15:[25] And the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the people of Israel, and they shall be forgiven; because it was an error, and they have brought their offering, an offering by fire to the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their error. Num.16: [40] to be a reminder to the people of Israel, so that no one who is not a priest, who is not of the descendants of Aaron, should draw near to burn incense before the LORD, lest he become as Korah and as his company -- as the LORD said to Elea'zar through Moses. 2Chr.23 [6] Let no one enter the house of the LORD except the priests and ministering Levites; they may enter, for they are holy, but all the people shall keep the charge of the LORD. Mark.1:[44] and said to him, "See that you say nothing to any one; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, for a proof to the people." Heb.7: [11] Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit'ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz'edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? Acts: 23 [5] And Paul said: I knew not, brethren, that he is the high priest. For it is written: Thou shalt not speak evil of the prince of thy people. Heb. 5: 1-5 “[1] For every high priest taken from among men, is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins: [2] Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. [3] And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. [4] Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was. … Heb, 7: 11-26[PM1] “11] If then perfection was by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchisedech, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? [12] For the priesthood being translated, it is necessary that a translation also be made of the law. [13] For he, of whom these things are spoken, is of another tribe, of which no one attended on the altar. [14] For it is evident that our Lord sprung out of Juda: in which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. [15]And it is yet far more evident: if according to the similitude of Melchisedech there ariseth another priest, …. [16] Who is made not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an indissoluble life: [17] For he testifieth: Thou art a priest forever, according to the order of Melchisedech. [18] There is indeed a setting aside of the former commandment, because of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof: [19](For the law brought nothing to perfection,) but a bringing in of a better hope, by which we draw nigh to God. [20] And inasmuch as it is not without an oath, (for the others indeed were made priests without an oath; [21] But this with an oath, by him that said unto him: The Lord hath sworn, and he will not repent, Thou art a priest forever.) [22] By so much is Jesus made a surety of a better testament. [23] And the others indeed were made many priests, because by reason of death they were not suffered to continue: [24] But this, for that he continueth forever, hath an everlasting priesthood, [25] Whereby he is able also to save forever them that come to God by him; always living to make intercession for us. DOUAY EXPLANATION: [23] "Many priests": The apostle notes this difference between the high priests of the law, and our high priest Jesus Christ; that they being removed by death, made way for their successors; whereas our Lord Jesus is a priest for ever, and hath no successor; but liveth and concurreth for ever with his ministers, the priests of the new testament, in all their functions. Also, that no one priest of the law, nor all of them together, could offer that absolute sacrifice of everlasting redemption, which our one high priest Jesus Christ has offered once, and for ever. DOUAY EXPLANATION:[25] "Make intercession": Christ, as man, continually maketh intercession for us, by re-presenting his passion to his Father. Heb. 8:3 [3] For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is necessary that he also should have something to offer. Heb. 10:21-23 “21] and a high priest over the house of God: [22] Let us draw near with a true heart in fullness of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with clean water. [23] Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering (for he is faithful that hath promised), 1Pet.2: [9] But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. {By OUR Live’s examples.} Haydock’s Commentary: Verse 9 “You are....a purchased people, whom Christ purchased, bought and redeemed with the price of his precious blood. --- That you may declare his (4) virtues; i.e. the excellencies and perfections of God, who hath called you, and now made you his people, which you were not, at least in this matter before, neither you that were Jews, nor especially you that were Gentiles.” Rev.5: [10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth." Haydock’s Commentary Verse 10 “And hast made us to our God, &c. See 1 Peter ii. 5, 9. (Witham) --- All Christians may justly be styled kings and priests of God, by the spiritual empire they possess over their passions and the world; and by the continual offering they make on the altar of their hearts, by means of the prayers they daily offer up to God. (Origen) --- Thus they say, we shall reign on the earth by the empire we shall exercise over our passions; and by the union we shall have with Jesus Christ and his Church, triumph over all who have persecuted us. (Estius; Andræas.)” John.15: “[16] You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you” “There is also another type of priesthood in the New Testament, besides the aforementioned ministerial priesthood. And that is the priesthood of the baptized. That's right, each one of us who are baptized are priests! But not ministerial priests. Rather, the sacrifice we offer to God daily is OURSELVES! Our daily sacrifices we make for our family and friends is what we offer to God, and it is united to the sacrificial priesthood of the priests and to the eternal high priesthood of Jesus Christ at each and every Mass! Romans 6:3-6: Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. 1Pet.1:15-16 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." 1 Peter 2:4-9: “Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God's sight chosen and precious; and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and he who believes in him will not be put to shame." To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, "The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner," and "A stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall"; for they stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” Let's take a closer look at certain words in the New Testament. For instance, the word "presbyter," or "elder" in some translations. "Presbyter" is the English version of the Greek word "presbuteros," and means "Priest." Presbyters are NOT Presbyterians! That branch of Christianity didn't get invented by man until the 16th Century. These priests in the New Testament were ordained by the laying on of hands with prophetic utterances, which the bible talks about in 1 Timothy 4:14: Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you. James 5:14-15: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Another word in the New Testament that Paul mentions is the word "reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5;18-19: All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Here we see that priests like Paul have the ministry of reconciliation, or the forgiveness of sins done in Christ's name. This sacramental power was first granted to the apostles by Jesus Christ himself in John 20:21-23: Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed ON THEM whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven; if YOU retain the sins of any, they are retained. There is no place in the entire New Testament that says we should confess our sins directly to God, like some people mistakenly think. There are numerous instances of people confessing their sins to God's ministers, however: Matthew 3:6: and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:5: And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. Acts.19:18: Many also of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. 1 Timothy 6:12: Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. James 5:16: Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. But what about the concept of priests offering sacrifice for the sins of the people, like the Old Testament priests did? Where is THAT in the New Testament? Well, we need look no farther than that famous event in the Gospels called "The Last Supper," more appropriately named "The First Eucharist." The Jewish Passover meal is to be celebrated forever, according to Exodus 12:24. The Passover LITURGY, or Rite, saved the firstborn children of the Israelites from death. This liturgy consisted of slaughtering an unblemished lamb, putting its blood over their door outside, and eating the lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. Jesus Christ celebrated this Passover liturgy right before He died, changing forever its meaning. NOW, Jesus is the sacrificed spotless lamb that is to be sacrificed and consumed in the form of unleavened bread, now known as the Communion Host. NOW we are saved from the death of sin, rather than from physical death like our ancestors the Israelites in Egypt. He told His apostles to "Do THIS in His remembrance," thus ordaining them forever as his priests. So many people miss the word "THIS" and mistakenly translate the word "remembrance" into the word "symbolic." The word "THIS" means "THIS is my body which IS given for you, and "THIS cup which is poured out for you IS the new covenant in my blood." We know from the Passover celebration of the Jews that each generation sees itself as participating in the original passover celebration and exodus from Egypt. There are other New Testament passages which indicate that the apostles were the first priests. The washing of the feet of the apostles in John 13:5 recalls the Old Testament dictate that priests had to wash their feet as well, in Exodus 30:19; Jesus reminding the Pharisees that his apostles could pluck grain and eat it on the Sabbath, while telling the story of David and his priests eating the Bread of the Presence (why tell this story if Jesus is not comparing David's priests to his apostles, who are also exempt from the strict dictates of the law?) in Matthew 12, are other references to the New Testament Priesthood. The priesthood of the laity, or baptized, is a complementary priesthood to the ministerial priesthood. The priesthood of the laity is like the body of Christ, whereas the ministerial priesthood is like the head of Christ. In the Mass, the body of Christ is united with its head, Jesus Christ, in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. From the New Translation of the Mass: Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters), that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. From the Blog of Father John Zuhlsdorf: The Second Vatican Council in its Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen gentium 10 defined that the priesthood given in baptism is a true participation in the priesthood of Christ, but that it differs qualitatively from the ministerial priesthood conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders. The ordained don’t merely receive more priesthood. They receive a priesthood different from that which they already had from baptism. These two modes of priesthood, distinct but sharing a common source, relate to each other as a single person’s head does with the body. In the Council’s the Decree on the Ministry and Life of Priests we read that, by Holy Orders, priests are configured in their being to Christ the Priest so that they are able to act in the person of Christ who is the Head of the Body, the Church (cf.Presbyterorum ordinis 2). Priests are ordained for their own sake (to help them save their own souls by doing God’s will) and for all the faithful (who must be directed to God through teaching, governance and sanctification). Priests offer gifts and sacrifice to God for the people (cf. Hebrews 5). o Lay people, with the priesthood of the baptized, are the vanguard of the Church’s mission in the world. Priests, set apart by ordination, concern themselves mainly with that which is sacred. o Lay people are primarily concerned with the secular. o Priests form and inform, nourish and strengthen, heal and guide lay people for their indispensable work. o Lay people do what no priest can: through deeds and words they bring Christ to every sphere of daily life in the world. St. Augustine of Hippo (d 430), speaking of his role as bishop, described his relationship with his flock in the best way when he said, “I am a bishop for you, but a Christian with you” (s. 46.2). Were ten thousand baptized men, women and children to pronounce the words of consecration over their bread and wine, the offerings would remain bread and wine. One priest, alone or with a congregation, by God’s power changes the people’s bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. The baptized unite their way of offering sacrifice to his way.” AMEN! END QUOTES Patrick [PM1]

What a beautiful thought and shared witness. THANK YOU! While reading this I felt a pain of deep sorrow for those who for whatever reason have left the Catholic church. Only the Catholic & Orthodox Churches HAVE Jesus alive and in Person: "Really, Truly and Substantially Present" in our churches and in Holy Communion testified to by FIVE different Catholic Authors of the New Testament; four of whom gave their lives as martyrs; {the 5th. John tried to by was saved miraculously from being BOILED IN OIL}... So in a literal sense leaving the RCC is abandoning God. Heb. 6: 2-6 [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, {Catholic Holy Communion}the powers of the world to come, DOUAY BIBLE EXPLANATIONS>>>[1] "The word of the beginning": The first rudiments of the Christian doctrine. [4] "It is impossible": The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell. [6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt." May God guide their path back to Him, Patrick