Tigger56

I have kept most of my discussion to the 10 commandments as it keeps it more compact. But I also believe that Paul kept the Holy Days and kept the dietary laws as well.

This shows that you were writing to me. I haven't ignored anything. I do obey the law of my God. I do not offer sacrifices for they were a shadow of the ultimate sacrifice of our Lord. That sacrifice didn't condemn or abolish the law of God. I am amazed that I would be questioned as to whether I choose which ones to keep. I choose to follow my Lord. He kept all of the law. He was the perfect sacrifice so to do animal sacrifices would be to deny my Lord. But to ignore all of his teachings would also be to deny him. So let me ask you, which one of the commandments do you ignore? Which commandment shouldn't be kept. Lets look at all 10.... which one do you not keep? As for Paul, yes Paul kept the law and he never tells anyone not to keep the law of God.

I appreciate your words. I trust in the Lord Jesus and he is the finisher of my faith. I "actively rest" in him. My salvation rests in his hands, my trust is in his perfect love, his perfect way, his perfect will for me in my life and in his perfect example. I don't trust in my own strength but I do trust in how in strengthens me in my walk with him. In my weakness he is made strong in my life. But my weakness does not mean that I give up. I do give in unto his Lordship in my life for he is my Messiah, Savior, God and King. I walk with my Lord and in that walk I obey him in his desires for me. In that desire I know he expects me to say "Yes, Lord" and follow him. To follow him, for me, is once again to be obedient unto his way. His way is the way of truth and truth is found in his perfect example and his perfect teachings. I become a living sacrifice and keep his word, which means I serve, I love and I obey. All of this does incorporate the law which he kept, and he taught. He is the perfect example set forth in how men should walk in this life. I will fail, but as a child of God, as a child of light, I will walk according to his example. In his life he loved his Father above all else and in that love he kept the law.

I do accept Jesus as my personal Savior, my Messiah and King. I obey him. The law isn't something separate, it is part of following my Savior. He kept the law perfectly, I do not but I obey and do my best knowing that he forgives, strengthens and guides me. You are right that the greatest battle is in the mind, but I hate no one, I am happily married and turn my eyes from things that are inappropriate. As Job, I make a covenant with my eyes. All of that is my following my Lord. If you don't think following the law is the path to follow. Then what do you do? Do you hate and let it be treated as murder? Do you lust after women? Do you lie as a regular basis? Do you worship other God? Are you a proponent of adultery? I am betting that you are none of those things, because as a Christian you try to emulate your Savior both in his example and in his teachings. That, my friend, is the law. I stated earlier that if all were honest to themselves, there is only one commandment they want to deny and that is the fourth one, the Sabbath.

Nay.... I will run with Paul and the other men and women of God before me, if fact I will rise up with eagle's wings as well. As for the last quote, I don't expect to be made perfect by the flesh, the ways of the flesh and the ways of the world are being worldly is the way of sin. I will bring my body in subjection and will run the race pleasing before the Lord and recognize that it is Christ in me that will bring the perfection when I rise to a spiritual body for the corruptible must put on incorruption. As far as your quote on the electric bill and company .... Friend, I used "paying" the electric bill as an "illustration" to try and show that Jesus "accomplished" the Law for us. So may I continue on with this "illustration" in relation to what you have said? Yes, you are paying your electric bill, everyone of them?, how many years is that since the first one, from the very "first" bill, over and over every month, ...that means you must be a very rich person to be paying the "accumulated" price of those years of bills, ...and you are probably the only "one" that is doing that which makes the Electric Company very happy with you, ...you are their "favorite" customer! Or For the first 10 months that you paid your electric bill you have completed the ten Laws and now every month after that, how many years would that be?, ...you are "adding" new laws to the original ten...... You lost me. Your analogy doesn't make sense to me. But yes every month I use electricity and every month I pay my bill, what can I say I like light at night, heat in the cold and cold in the heat. As far as analogy to the law.... I haven't added to any of them, I am simply obeying the ones given to us by God the Father and God our Savior. In the race I am running, Jesus is the Way and the law is what helps keep me traveling in that Way.

I don't know your parents so can't say for sure, but it could be that they love having you and their grandchild with them and don't want you moving. Hope you aren't moving too far as family is so very important. I pray you have peace in your move.

In regards to the electric bill.... yes I keep paying it as I keep using it. When I quit paying, I can expect that it is just a matter of time before it is cut off. Jesus, our Lord and Messiah, did keep the law. He walked in obedience, observing the law. He set the perfect example as to how we are to walk in our own lives. He didn't do this just so we could rest, do nothing and ignore His laws. As Paul said, I will bring my body under subjection, He also speaks of running a race and striving... why all the effort if all he has to do is rest. It is a race I am running, the Lord strengthens me in it and lifts me where I am about to fall. It is a race well worth running.... so get your shoes own, enough resting, run brother run...

Jesus obeyed the spirit and the letter of the law, but ignored the added laws and traditions that the Pharasees placed upon the Sabbath as well as upon their fellow man. They judged the Lord not based upon the law of God but upon their own laws and traditions. Note that they condemned John the Baptist for not drinking and condemned the Lord for drinking. Also as a side note they called Jesus a wine bibber because he enjoyed wine (me too) not grape juice.

Please define "fulfilled". I'm glad you said, "appear" and "implying". I simply said... Many would say that a legalist is someone who observes the law of God. If that is the case then Jesus Christ was the greatest legalist of all time. Just a simple statement. You can agree of not.

Many would say that a legalist is someone who observes the law of God. If that is the case then Jesus Christ was the greatest legalist of all time.

It is amazing to me that so many are so quick to define the law of the Almighty God and our Lord Jesus as being something that was created by mistake or is evil. Yet the same group will look upon those who curse, those who work on Sunday, those who steal or kill as being anything but Christian. The law of God was not a mistake. It is holy and it is truth. Many who deny the law, still define your walk as a Christian by accepting Christ which is number one as there is no salvation without Him, but you will also agree that we should act and behave in a "christian manner". That manner is defined by the law and by the root of the law which is love. The Lord God and The Lord Jesus show that love and the law are united. Why would the Lord Jesus state, that if you love me you will keep my commandments? Because walking the path of obedience is a path of love. To love our neighbor is a fulfilling of the law. Fulfilling doesn't mean abolishing. Love of God and love of others is clearly defined in the behavior set forth in the ten commandments. Though most deny it, I am correct in saying that the biggest argument most mainstream Christians have against the law is based on Commandment number 4, to keep the Sabbath holy. Please note that it states to "keep" it holy. Why is that? Because only God can establish something as holy. He created heaven and earth and all that is upon in and rested the seventh day and made it holy. The pharisees at the time of Christ had filled the day with many rules and traditions which the Lord showed was in error, but he never showed that the Sabbath was a mistake. Our Lord walked a sinless life not so we could walk a sinful live but so that when we fail we can be forgiven, redeemed and restored to once again walk in obedience before them. This isn't an effort of flesh it is rather walking in spirit and not the flesh. The ways of flesh are the ways of disobedience. The path of light is found in loving our Lord first and most and by showing that love unto God and unto our fellow man. How do we love? Isn't it truly defined by the words of our Lord? Isn't it defined by His example? Our Lord Jesus kept the law, he kept the Sabbath as did his Apostles. Look at Luke 4:16, the Lord went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day. So many misquote Paul without looking at his example. Look at Acts 13:15, Acts 13:42, 43, 44, Acts 17:1, Acts 18:4, and then in Acts 18:5 you see Paul meeting on the Sabbath and continued for a year and six months and amazingly enough not once does it show him getting up and telling the people that God made a mistake! to quit keeping the Sabbath! Instead he met with them on the Sabbath. I wish all would at least admit that the biggest problem you have with the law of our God is the Sabbath. A day that has been rejected by most of the mainstream Christians though there is proof in Christian history that many continued to observe the Sabbath including Jesus and the Apostles. Many deny that the pope has the power to change the law of God yet many unknowing accept the Catholic Church by observing Sunday over the Sabbath. Show me one place in the Bible where God made Sunday holy. I know I will now receive much condemnation and argument. But wouldn't just one of you admit that it is the fourth commandment that makes you declare all law is abolished. I know it is too much to expect. I will now await the usual misunderstanding of Paul's writings and will await the ignoring of the fact of history and the fact that Jesus and the Apostles kept the Sabbath. Oh if only one of you could tell me that when God makes something Holy, what gives man the right to abolish it, for I know the Lord never did. Can you show me one scripture when God makes Sunday holy. If you can't show that one thing, then why don't we keep the Sabbath. If my words, I do want you to understand that I do realize that all of you are sincere and that you Love Christ. I realize that you also adamantly believe you are right. But sincerity does not always equal right and sincerity, though well meaning, does not make truth.

Alive, I wasn't meaning to be offensive or imply that I had bad feelings in anyway. I enjoy discussions, but truthfully much prefer shorter dissertations as it is easier for me to read and respond to one thing at at time as it can help avoid confusion and not take as much time. That is just my preference, I know many read the posts but the responses were between you and I and I am just indicating my preference. Sorry if I offended and sorry I misunderstood... you are correct you did say you went to look at some work, to me that also implies work much as a contractor that will go look at a roof or a home to present an estimate. It is work but not the actually rolling up of sleeves. But obviously I was mistaken. Anyway may God bless you as well. I know we both have different views but know that both of us love the Lord and seek to please Him in our walk.

Are you sure you left to go to work? I feel that perhaps the sheer volume of your response is meant to overwhelm! But, alas, it doesn't. You state, "Of course we don't actively choose not to obey the 10 with the possible exception of the Sabbath as folks understand it." A subject in itself, but is one of the primary reasons so many Christians claim the law is null and void is that they do not like to accept the Sabbath. Though only one day is ever mentioned as being made holy and it was the day Christ kept as well as his apostles. Next quote, "The issue is always where we place the emphasis regarding the principle of Law and the principle of Life. We are taught in the scriptures that He wrote His law on our hearts and that the 'New Creation'--that New Life Nature and the Holy Spirit within desires to serve and please God. If we follow the teaching and dictates of His Life, we will be seeking to please Him." The problem is most appear to desire to state that law cannot exist with grace, yet it does. If we love Jesus we are to keep the commandments. Why, such a statement? It is that through obedience that we do please God. Will we fail in perfect obedience.... at this time, yes, but in grace we can seek mercy and be forgiven. But we don't sin that grace may abound. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking to please Jesus and His Father in our walk in life. I wonder why Paul in I cor. 9:27, ever stated that he kept his body under subjection lest he be castaway. If he was saved simply by accepting Christ why consider obedience? I do understand that the law by itself does not save. But it seems like too many Christians want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". God's law, God's way, God's truth is beautiful and is an aspect of love. We fail in it and thus the penalty of curse can be removed in repentance, being washed clean through the sacrifice of our Lord. Christ is our Lord, Master, Savior, Messiah, High Priest and King. So many ignore some of the offices of Christ and they make a mistake in doing so for those offices imply rule unto which there is obedience. We are indeed under a new covenant. But that covenant is with a High Priest (Jesus) in who forgiveness can be sought. Forgiveness of what? sin. What is sin.... the transgression of the law. I agree we have freedom.... the freedom to obey not disobey. Without law, without obedience there is chaos. I tried to keep it brief..... bottom line you seem to agree that the law is not abolished and you also seem to agree that we shouldn't disobey them. In that we are in agreement. We keep the law but look unto our savior above all for the law in itself cannot save. Our Lord Jesus kept the law perfectly so that he could be the perfect sacrifice. That sacrifice wasn't so that we could simply ignore the law and the path pleasing unto him and his Father.

No problem, be safe and have a great day.

I do walk a path of righteousness before the Lord and I am his Servant. I follow the obedience of love and the love of obedience. The Lord Jesus is my God and my Savior. He is the author and finisher of my faith and I seek to please Him at all times. If I fail in my obedience I know that all I have to do is take a step toward Him and He will run to me. His grace is ever unto me and I know I am precious in his sight. So, yes I keep the law to the fullest measure I can each and every day. Which measure of the law do you feel we shouldn't keep and which law as I posted before is that we are to ignore?

I do believe in the grace received from the life and death and resurrection of my Savior. However, how do I honor him? How do I show love and obedience without the observance of His ways and His law? You stated, " Under the law, it is written that no one can keep it.". I agree that I cannot keep the law perfectly but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't keep it but in grace I find forgiveness when I fail. Without law, what do I need to be forgiven of? For without law there is no sin. Out curiosity which law should be ignored? Commandment one? We should have any god we want and place them before the true God? Commandment two? Can I have idols? Commandment three? I can curse God? Commandment four? I can ignore the Sabbath and worship whenever and however I want? commandment five? I don't have to honor my mother and father? commandment six? I can kill? Commandment seven? I can commit adultery? commandment eight? I can steal? commandment nine? I can bear false witness? commandment ten? I can covet? When people tell me that I do not have to observe the law, that is pretty comprehensive in nature. So which law listed isn't good and should be ignored?

I agree. I also enjoy challenging others to think or consider why they believe as they do. Most will choose their own denomination as being right (even if they state that they don't agree with everything taught by that particular denomination), because why belong to a particular denomination if you don't believe they are right? I know some "grow into a denomination", meaning that their parents raised them within that particular denomination. Some have joined churches due to location, or they like a particular preacher, or for the "activities offered". Some even join particular churches as a career move. I am simply a Christian. Because people like labels, I get referred to as a non-denominational Christian. When visiting nursing homes, I will be asked by some of the residents there if I am a Baptist, etc... usually if I am a Baptist as they are definitely in the majority where I live. But even the Baptist appear to have multiple denominations as there are Primitive Baptists, Independent Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Southern Baptists, etc.... I understand that in the United States (where I reside) there are at this time 1200 different denominations of Christianity in this nation alone.

In an earlier post you indicated that you were Catholic, so why didn't you include them in your question? Why the question? Are you searching for a denomination to belong to? or are you just trying to stir debate and discussion? Either reason is okay but when possible I like to know the why behind some questions asked.

I can't help but notice that some who swear by Paul's writing on some things are quick to dismiss other parts such as this scripture. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It is important to read all things in context and it is also important to build line upon line and precept upon precept, but not its also important to only pick and choose the scriptures you want to simply help you in your own personal doctrinal grid.

I do not agree that Manna was a naturally occurring substance. I was a miracle from the Lord. It does state in verse 4 of Exodus 16 that it would rain from heaven and not that it would come from insects. It also states in verse 31 what it tasted like. It becomes an appropriate symbol of the Lord Jesus as he refers to himself as the bread from heaven, see John 6:32,33. It was the "food of angels" and sustained the Israelites. Also it does show the need to obey his commandments. The Lord was teaching of the observance of the Sabbath, one of the ten commandments. They could not keep the manna overnight or it would stink and have worms except on the even approaching the weekly Sabbath. On what is now know as Friday they could gather two days worth for that day and for the Sabbath as the Lord did not want them to gather on the Sabbath day, See what it says in Exodus 16:20 -28.

Sounds more like a human thing.

Demons do exist and they are of the darkness, however light is more powerful than darkness. Prayer and fasting was mentioned by one respondent and that is always good advise and is biblical. Praising is also something that drives darkness away, also placing items of light in a home such as the Bible etc... helps. Another principle is found in Job. Pray for a Hedge of protection to be placed around the home. We are indeed in a spiritual warfare but we do have powerful tools to combat darkness with.

When my brother prays he will often receive words in the heavenly language. He will then sit down and write these words down. He also received visions. I have been with him and have seen him pray, heard the heavenly language and seen him write several pages of words without hesitation or correction. When he prays and begins to speak in the heavenly language it isn't gibberish it is a beautiful language that my brother never learned. This first began in 2006 and some of those words were published in two books. You do not have to believe and you may think I am a complete nut. That will be okay, when I shared what was happening with ministers at various churches in my area, they were friendly to me, loved the words but did not believe. Since it all began he has been given thousands of messages and a couple of hundred parables. I shared a few of the parables under another section of this forum. But whether you believe or not I love the question in the message of when does prayer turn to praise. I realized that too often I was guilty of waiting to praise the Lord until after the prayer was answered and not before. Hope you enjoy the words whether you believe the source or not. When Prayer Turns to Praise “I am the Lord Jesus, you Savior and King. These are words to help you my servant and to give guidance unto my people. My people pray for many things and we hear and we move. Answered prayer leads to praise, but when is the moment that prayers should turn to praise? You see the images as I speak my servant so you will understand. The children of Israel had fear at the waters and when I delivered them they praised. When the waters divided, each person had to walk through the sea. The water was as a wall on each side. There was fear in the hearts of my people as they walked in the midst of the waters. Many prayed during every step until safely across. When should prayer have turned to praise? Should praise have waited until all were safely over to the other side? My people praised once delivered, but praises should have been sung during the walk in the midst of the waters. If you wait until deliverance you are looking only with the eyes of the flesh. Live a life of prayer so that you will have the faith to see and to know. Once you see the power of my hand you are to let your prayers turn into praise. I give you words spoken by my servant Daniel when he was cast into the den of lions. He lived a life of prayer and he also knew the power of praise. Was it prayer or praise that closed the mouths of the lions that night? See the wisdom and power given this day.” “Great and Mighty God, I bow and I worship. Please help me and deliver me oh God. The lions circle me but do not attack for your light is upon me. My life is in your hands and I know my life is yours. If it be your will I ask that your hand deliver me from this trial. I thank you for your love and mercy. The lions do not attack but I see the hunger in their eyes and feel their breath upon me. You have delivered me and I praise. I lift my hands unto you Great Eternal and I shout and I sing. Mighty are your works and great is your power oh Lord! As you delivered your people from the host of Pharaoh so you have delivered me. You are the God above all and I worship and I praise and I offer my thanks unto you for saving me this day. I see the lions and all have gathered together and they sleep. Great Lord I praise you. I was brought here because I would not cease to pray unto you and in your love you have turned my prayer into praise. I do not wait until morning to praise, I praise now while the hand of death lies just at the door. I do not fear the lions coming unto me in the night, for deliverance has come unto me. I praise you in the midst of the storm for I see your hand and know that you have turned my prayer into praise. I praise you at least seven times each day and shall never cease to live a life of prayer and praise. Thank you Great Eternal for having mercy and for showing the wicked ones of the land that you are the God above all.”

Though I do not celebrate Christmas, I always appreciated being able to see, "Its a Wonderful Life". Now it can be obtained on DVD etc.... but use to be I could only see it during this time of year. I like many of the Jimmy Stewart movies and I always liked this one because it showed the effect that one person can have upon others. The main character in the movie was blessed to see how his life impacted others. It shows the strength of a man who stood up for what was right and how his caring made a difference. Perhaps you have a different movie that you really enjoy during this time of year?

Thanks for the good thought and post. Waiting upon the Lord is a powerful concept but one that is misunderstood by some I believe. To wait doesn't mean to be idle. I believe in waiting with diligence. While waiting we do not simply sit upon our thumbs but remain active. In prayer, praying through is better than praying and then simply waiting. You don't take matter into your own hands and you do wait on the Lord but you continue to knock and to seek. When waiting on the Lord to be mighty for you, you continue to be active in your walk before him. Such as what King David said in Psalms 37:34, to wait on the Lord and Keep his way seems to indicate you continue in your path of obedience as you wait on the Lord.