Mrs Mac

In Various Issues Board, John S posted an article by JC Ryle, "Are You Born Again" It is worth checking out, in fact I would say that it is urgent reading.

Endure 4...... Here is Panin's , based on the Greek text. ""believeth unto Him" Strong's G4100 πιστεύω pisteuō pist-yoo'-o From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus died for the sins of every person, only those who believe are born again from above and walk in new life, forever. No license to sin was given with this.

E4S...... Hebrews 11 tells us that the Old Testament saints are not in Hell. I don't know where Judas is, I am not his judge. I simply said he was not "born again" which seems to be the words that people are tripping over. I don't know what you mean by this. Carry what, the being born again issue?

E4S......... He wasn't born again. To be born again, one must accept Christ as Saviour and Lord. That could not happen until after He died and His blood was shed for our sins. Judas Iscariot was under the old dispensation of Law.

I agree, we are told to discern the spirits. Obviously your Pastor did, Bill. He is still considered by many to be a Christian Minister of the gospel, so there will be those that will be captivated by his teachings, simply led astray believing the lie. To an extent people believe what they want to believe but Schuller still has to be held accountable for his teachings. His teachings are hindering the work of God in the lives of seekers and believers.

Yod....... You are right, of course. I will have to watch out for that. It's not that I wouldn't like to be here all the time but right now it's 12:23 am with me and I have to go nigh nigh, so then when I return everything has been said and done.

godrulz...... The relationship that you describe as salvation is a result of being born again, if the relationship is a truthful one and not hypocritical. We are unable to have a relationship with a spirit unless we take on the nature of that spirit. God is Spirit and we too must become like Him or we cannot have fellowship with Him. Fellowship is relationship. If we have not become new creatures in Christ then we remain in the kingdom of darkness where our fellowship is with the powers of darkness. God has provided a way out of that through the blood of Jesus and as we accept Him as Lord and Saviour we become born again and are translated into the kingdom of the Son of His love. By the way, Billy Graham popularised many Scriptures, John 3:16 being one of them.

HELLO!!!! Thanks for your post here. I wish I could respond to your post, but you offered no Scripture for us to discuss. We can use human arguments all day long but these will do nothing but confuse and fustrate us all. If you want to discuss being 'unborn again' I would say you are trying to use the once a son-always a son arugument and then I will have to turn around and ask you a question: If you were a child of the devil before your initial salvation experience, then how did you get a new spiritual Father? It follows that we can have a new spiritual father again--this would be the devil. As for 'am I born again' I would say YES! I have dedicated my life to be a humble servant of the Lord Jesus. Remember, you will know a real Christian by his fruit! I hope that people see my life and say that I resemble a real Christian. But only me and God know the real truth. We can use a righteous judgment to determine if someone is living right or not. I am trying my best. We are told to make every effort to enter into the kingdom of God. I apologise. I assumed that the Scripture to which I refer was well known. Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Also John 3:7, 1Pet1:23 We don't just change spiritual fathers at will when we are born again, as you suggest. We are born of incorruptible seed which is the word of God. The result of being born again is to be given a new nature. 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Also Gal 6:15 To claim that the new creation that we have become can be reversed seriously questions the work of God. Being "born again" is not just an experience, it is a literal change that has taken place in our innermost being worked by the Holy Spirit . That is what Scripture teaches.

The problem is, he is possibly taking a church 10,000 strong with him. People and even Christians are being deluded by his messages because possibility thinking and positive thinking appeal to that which is in us that says, "I can do it myself". True faith believes that God is our all sufficiency, Schuller's way is that we are able to do it through mind control.

Yod, The Judaizers got riled up because Paul was teaching that the Law had been fulfilled, they were not required to observe its letter. He was told by the elders to give in to them a little so that they would calm down. It didn't matter to Paul, he was a Jew, he was a Roman and so he was all things to all people. The perfect man for the job God had given him to do. I don't believe that it teaches that Paul observed the Law in practice. He obviously didn't because Jerusalem had to tell him to do it so that the Judaizers would realise that he was not denigrating their beliefs. He was preferring them, so to speak.

Yod, The Judaizers got riled up because Paul was teaching that the Law had been fulfilled, they were not required to observe its letter. He was told by the elders to give in to them a little so that they would calm down. It didn't matter to Paul, he was a Jew, he was a Roman and so he was all things to all people. The perfect man for the job God had given him to do. I don't believe that it teaches that Paul observed the Law in practice. He obviously didn't because Jerusalem had to tell him to do it so that the Judaizers would realise that he was not denigrating their beliefs. He was preferring them, so to speak.

There is one question I would like to ask. If one is "born again" as Jesus claims we must be to be one of His. How does one become unborn again? Being born again is not some mystical airy fairy happening it is a fact of receiving a newly created spirit. Once a person is born again he becomes a new creature. Fact! When a person is born again he does not wilfully sin, so the "license to sin and careless living argument is one that is put forth by those who do not understand the new nature in Christ. Are you born again? If you do not know then you aren't and need to seek Jesus. Your soul is at stake!

Are you sure it is not just the "rat finks" or maybe the "rat pack" or maybe the "ratbags" ? The findings mean nothing in God's creation.

"I don't think anything has been done in the name of Christ and under the banner of Christianity that has proven more destructive to human personality and, hence, counterproductive to the evangelism enterprise than the often crude, uncouth, and unchristian strategy of attempting to make people aware of their lost and sinful condition." (Robert Schuller, Time, March 18, 1985) http://www.floridacp.com/heresy/quotes/schuller.htm As a Christian if I had his books I would burn them.

Good post, Nebula. May we not go running to the head of the table when we get there, either.

I will go with Nebula. The covenant was made with Abraham. It was to him and his seed that the earth was to be blessed. It was to him that God showed the land and said, "for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever" Gen 13:15. All of this was done before the Hebrews became Israel or Jews. They are still the same people however and the covenant was reaffirmed with Isaac. I believe that God will bring about His purposes for Israel and all of mankind in the way He sees fit. He has obviously used the secular Zionists to establish the state, just as He is using the Christian Zionists to help bring the people back. It is a falsety to say that the Jews are losing their birthright. That can never happen no matter how apostate the nation becomes.

Yod, I'm not trying to make the remnant anything. I had never discussed it or studied it before and so did not see it the way you do. I appreciate the spiritual awakening on it and certainly will be looking at it further. No, I didn't know they don't have sweat glands. Poor things!

Yod, I'm not trying to make the remnant anything. I had never discussed it or studied it before and so did not see it the way you do. I appreciate the spiritual awakening on it and certainly will be looking at it further. I'm glad you said they are the church. No, I didn't know they don't have sweat glands. Poor things!

Well, Yod and Dad Ernie. I have read Romans 11 many times and "remnant" did not stand out to me. Thank you, I will study that further. In your thinking, is the "remnant" part of the church or not? Yod, you are a sweetie. Do you know that a pig has the same kind of digestive system as a human ? In other words, it is what it eats. That is why I don't eat it, nothing to do with the Torah, except I believe that God knew what He was talking about health wise when He forbade it. I believe that is why the natives in New Zealand eat so much pork. They used to eat human flesh at one time and it has that sweetish taste. Well, I think that is what human flesh would taste like. Pork! Sweetish! Ugh!

Well, Yod and Dad Ernie. I have read Romans 11 many times and "remnant" did not stand out to me. Thank you, I will study that further. In your thinking, is the "remnant" part of the church or not? Yod, you are a sweetie. Do you know that a pig has the same kind of digestive system as a human ? In other words, it is what it eats. That is why I don't eat it, nothing to do with the Torah, except I believe that God knew what He was talking about health wise when He forbade it. I believe that is why the natives in New Zealand eat so much pork. They used to eat human flesh at one time and it has that sweetish taste. Well, I think that is what human flesh would taste like. Pork! Sweetish! Ugh!

I often have to ask Jesus to put His love in my heart for certain people in difficult situations. I cannot love the love that He wants me to have in my own strength. Sometimes I even have to ask Him to heighten my love for Him if I feel it growing lukewarm. These are the kinds of prayers Jesus answers readily.

Dad Ernie....... I just can't imagine Jesus coming and NOT including the Jews (those He came to save the first time but was rejected by them) in the resurrection/rapture. Nowhere does it appear that ANYONE will be saved AFTER the rapture occurs. Jesus is now building His church (the bride), and it will be perfect, that is NO ONE will be missing from it, and it will be a Holy church, beautiful in every way and Jew and Gentile are all included. Are you talking about saved or unsaved Jews? I agree that the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles, if I indicated otherwise, I am sorry. I like to keep individuals and nations separate because only individuals can be saved (as far as I know) at this point in time anyway. When I was talking about a remnant, I can't see one nationally right now but I can at the Second Advent. I hope that makes sense to you. Fairly recently I saw an article where ALL the tribes of Jacob had been accounted for IN ISRAEL and in the world yet scattered. Ironically there seemed to be no lineage from King David - and I know why, because Jesus is the inheritor of his throne and indeed Jesus is now sitting on the throne. That is very interesting, thanks for sharing it. . We gentiles have been joined and are being joined together WITH ISRAEL, even right now to do service in the Kingdom of God, where there is neither Greek nor Jew nor male or female. God is NOT a respector of people. But this is not saying God is finished with the Jews, they STILL have a day coming where as Romans 11 says "All Israel shall be saved." There will be a day when "the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)" and there shall also be a day soon thereafter where there shall be the fulness of the Jews brought into the Kingdom of God. Please Read Romans 11. I don't see "we gentiles being joined together with Israel" Israel is in spiritual darkness, how can we work together? Individual gentiles and individual Jews can work together in the Kingdom of God as long as that Kingdom is established in the hearts of both. I know God has not cast His people away, if He did we would never be able to trust any of His other promises. I am not anti Jew, but our place together in the church can only be "in Christ" I get the feeling that some of you think that Jews don't need to come to salvation through the blood of Jesus. That they get in by some other way because they are God's chosen people.

Yod...... So there is no misunderstanding, I emphatically agree that we are all one in Christ, ok? OK! But there is a fundamental flaw in that statement. The "church" began as the remnant of Israel First time I have ever heard that. Why do you call the Jews who received Christ as a remnant, the Bible doesn't? Or does it? Paul describes the church as a hidden mystery in the Old Testament. The jews wondered how God was going to fulfill the scriptures about the gentiles being joined to Israel. The church was a mystery, Paul revealed it to them. The point is this; The church is gentiles joined with the remnant of Israel....there has always been a jewish remnant though the gentile church tried to remove them Sorry, I can't see this. The Gentiles and Jews came together as one new man in Christ. This is individual Gentiles and individual Jews who make up the church. The nation Israel is not involved in the political sense in which you speak. I have come to recognize that the disagreement between you and I (in various forums) is concerning the role of jews in the church today. For some reason you seem to believe that jews should stop being jewish if they want to be in the church? Please feel free to correct me if that is a wrong assessment of your position. I do not believe that Jews need to give up their Jewish culture, but I do believe they need to give up their Jewish religion of Judaism which is a religion without Christ.I have no problem with Jews being Jews, just don't try to make me be one. Praise the Lord and pass the ham! Strangely enough, I wouldn't touch ham or even bacon with a ten foot pole. :upsided:

Thank you, Dad Ernie. The remnant that is saved must be the believing ones who go into the Millenium after His coming. The remnant cannot be identified now, as far as I can tell. The remnant of Israel can't be the ones who believe in Jesus now because that makes them the church where we are all one in Christ. (Or should be )