Seasoned by Grace

I agree completely. If we're doing Gods will and were sure in our hearts what we are doing is His will for us and have been all along, then we should just keep doing what we're doing and not worry about the rest of the world and what's happening or what others think of us. "We are in the world, not of the world". God bless you all. My name is OLIGOS

Of coarse they are dying!! Romans 13:2-7, "Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinances of God, and those who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves". Titus 1:1-3 "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be peaceable, to be gentle, showing every consideration to all men. Mark 12:12 Even Jesus said, "Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is to God what is Gods." A reference to submission to authority. Matthew 4:5-7, "Do not tempt the Lord your God". The pastors and church people I've heard speak out against the closing of churches, and wanting to reopen, don't reflect any of the characteristics of Godly people mentioned above. We are to be the SALT and LIGHT to the world. The Jewish nation rebelled against God several times, and each time had to suffer great catastrophies. Will we do the same? Ignorance, rebellion, false teaching , arrogance and ego, lead most of todays church people and churches, and we'll continue to see death in the churches as we begin to see Gods judgement as an automatic response to rejecting Gods truth. Gods plan is already in motion for anyone who rejects His truth. Gods judgement is upon the false churches who teach a false faith, and live a false doctrine. This is just the beginning until repentance is claimed in their hearts not arrogance. 1st Peter 4:17 says, "..in the last when judgement begins, judgement begins with the HOUSE OF GOD. My name is OLIGOS

Jesus always prayed to the Father "Not my will but thine be done".

Along with what everyone else has said here, I think there is some rational thinking, wisdom to be prayed for, as well as being aware of the results of other churches opening. In the news just recently several churches have opened with disastrous results. One church having a third of the congregation coming down sick with the coronavirus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One thing to remember is we don't live by our faith to prove who we are to other Christians who may judge us, we live our faith from our heart, and whatever we do God Himself looks on our heart and understands our intentions. What other Christians think of our actions is their problem, what God thinks is ours. My name is OLIGOS

To me this is a really good question considering the state of our country right now, and peoples state of mind.. I wonder how this question would have been answered during the war between the states - The UNION against the CONFEDERATES?? What about KENT STATE PROTESTS AND STUDENTS BEING SHOT - DEAD - BY ARMES MILITARY, or RODNEY KING RIOTS, or MARTIN LUTHER KING RIOTS AND MARCHES or the WATTS RIOTS, or the VIEYNAM WAR PROTESTS AND RIOTS all over the U.S.?? IS HAVING THE FREEDOM TO HAVE A VOICE MAKE US GREAT?? Why do people still come from all over the world to live here?? Is the American dream still alive inspite of all this?? Do we have the freedom to become anything we set our minds on?? if WE'RE BORN HERE DO WE TAKE EVERYTHING WE HAVE FOR GRANTED , AND EVEN HAVE THE FREEDOM TO EXPECT TO GET WHATEVER WE WANT, AND THINK IT'S OUR RIGHT TO HAVE THINGS GIVEN TO US BY OUR GOVERNMENT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is our country perfect. ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Is anyone in this country perfect - ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Even Christians - ABSOLUTELY NOT!! People have problems, countries have problems, even families have problems, and marriages have problems. But in this country we work through our problems, always have, hopefully, we always will. To me being great isn't just about what you do, but how you do it a certain way and why. We don't always have the right answers at first, but we don't quit until we find them GOD BLESS AMERICA MY name is OLIGOS

Debp So very true. So many people caught up in LEGALISM and RULE KEEPING, have no idea how understanding and loving and kind God can be when we have no control over our personal situations. How much God loved King David INSPITE of his sins, continually amazes me. How gentle and merciful our God can be when we are trying because of our love for HIM, but we fail, and He allows us to get up and try again, and again, until we get it right. God bless all who stop by. My name is OLIGOS

I have always believed that God looks on our heart and our intentions, not how we follow rules or do as others expect - LEGALISM and RULE KEEPING. Look at David, how he failed God, but through it all David never quit loving the Lord. DAVID was called a man after God's own HEART - absolutely BEAUTIFUL!! God bless you debp My name is OLIGOS

Well LonerAndy my friend, you have a pretty strong opinion and I don't think any thing I say will Change your mind, and for me that's O.K. The lord is still growing us both, and we're still on the same path and God still loves us, so what could be better??. Like a lot od people who think their Christians, they don't have a clue about "Legalism" vs. LOVE, and what your talking about in your beliefs is legalism and rule keeping, instead of doing what you do from your heart from love. We're all at different places in our faith, and just because I'm not where you are doesn't make me wrong. Are you 77 years old yet like me, and been a Christian getting closer to 50 years?" Have you preached in 2 churches? Have you served the Lord leading men's groups or worked with the homeless for over 12 years?? We're all in different places, so chill out and live your life for God, and back off on judging others by your own standards because we all have our own that we'll all have to answer for some day, and I'm good where I am, and the Holy Spirit has validated where I am. God bless you brother and with all my love as a Christian brother, and may you find your own path in life as the lord leads and guides you! My name is OLIGOS

BibleStudent100. I don't think it's so much about making church appealing, but it's more about making Christ appealing in the church and in our community. Not to be critical of you at all because I think I know what you mean, that If we live our lives for Christ we'll have a good reputation in the community and new comers may recognize some of the people there who have good reputations, and if we are a positive part of the local community, they may feel like their in the right place and even want to get to know us. Sometimes I think we focus on the external too much, and forget about just loving people without the rules and regulations we seem to create, or the legalism that puts our faith in a box or on a list of do's and don'ts. Lastly, it seems that more and more, in the churchs, that Christianity is becoming a THING, something to use to connect to people, like going to a bar to make friends, and the lines become blurred as to why someone is really there, or who they really are. They learn to speak the CHRIStIANEEZE language, and begin to fit right in - Tares and the wheat. And when church is over, people have busy lives and the young families want to get out as fast as they can to get the kids to soccer practice as there's no time to hang around for a church social with food and fellowship It's like they did what God expected, so mow there free to get on with other things. Think about it. My name is OLIGOS

In the comment of mine that you quoted I was referring to the intent of the heart. That should be the standard we live our personal Christian lives by. Are we not only true to God, but are we true to ourselves also ??? My name is OLIGOS

TheBlade my friend Try reading 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18, and try to get past just applying this message to marriage as many, many churches teach that it only applies to. If you can get past the legalism and rule keeping of most every church in America, and get to the heart of what God is saying in His word, God would never, and has never commanded us as believers to stay in a DEAD CHURCH. In the group of verses I quoted above, verse 17 says, "come out from their midst and be separate , says the LORD". In this context of the meaning of the word separate, which also means to be sanctified, Holy, or set apart, is the Greek word hagiasmos, which, when you refer to the scripture being quoted in 2nd Cor. 17 above, is Jeremiah 51: 45, Jeremiah is saying, "Come out of her my people! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. RUN from the fierce anger of the Lord." The connotation in the Greek language here in this context, is the idea of running for your life as you'd run from a burning building. The Greek word aphorizo also means to separate, but can't be used in this context, a different application, so don't get the 2 confused if you study both. I hope that helps clarify your understanding in the statement you made above that I quoted God bless you as you continue on your path of Godliness. My name is OLIGOS

Logostician I so appreciate your encouragement, support and belief in me. God knows He owns my heart, and that my life is surrendered to Him for any calling He chooses to place on my life. I have served Him for many decades, and have learned how to place my life and situations in His hands to do as He wills. I so believe Jesus words, "Not my will but thin be done" in everything, and God has been faithful. I have taught my oldest son how to apply that to his life to, and the Lord is blessing him beyond description, as he applies trusting our LORD as I do What a joy to be a father right now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Before I was a believer I set my own coarse in life, even after I became a believer, for a while, but God is gentle and patient, and led me to a different way of living in Him. It's so easy to choose your own coarse in life, and life can get really hard when we do, or we can choose to let God lead and it may still get hard, the difference is we are in training, and God has a plan and He wants to give our lives a value, and purpose we could never accomplish for ourselves, and bring to others the AWESOME gift of ETERNAL LIFE. My name is OLIGOS

No matter who tries to solve this here on the forum, do you really think discrimination will end??? The prejudice and hate is driving all of this as it always has. Prejudice and hate on both side. Remember 1964 and the Watts riots, and how many riots since then. This is about HATING your fellow man, no different than what I've seen and experienced in churches and men's groups Not as violent, but just as hateful. if you think this hate is restricted to the streets, you need to pay closer attention to what's happening in the churches between white folks. None of this is JUST ABOUT color, it's the release of pent up hate especially by our police who have had enough, just like the blacks have had enough too. It's a clash of both sides fed up and are lashing out. To me both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. IT'S HATE THAT IS OUT OF CONTROL!!! My name is OLIGOS

I love the differing views here and all your diversity of beliefs, and I'm grateful you stopped by to offer your advise and opinions. What I love is that there's been no harshness between people here on this thread. You've all been very kind and considerate unlike on many other topics here where there's been a lot of devisiveness. Thank you so much for all of your kindness's. My name is OLIGOS

Thank you dhchristian That's exactly what I'm trying to be as I walk around my neighborhood and meet and talk to folks, and see where they are in their life. God may not use me for any more than a lifter of spirits and an encouragement, and when there's an opportunity, share some words about faith as I have been given to me several times already . I'm a very relaxed east going person, a super friendly person and enjoy people tremendously, and love to hear about their lives, and joke around and laugh. I let them talk mostly and don't say too much, as people really like to talk about THEIR LIVES, and get bored real easy if the other person talks too much. God could be setting me up for more in the future, or he could be just putting me in a place where I'm available to talk when someone has need, or maybe something elase entirely I never thought of. God does that sometimes, but whatever He wants is my hearts desire - I'M ALL IN . God bless you al for chiming in and giving me support, a place to be heard, a voice, and some wonderful feedback and hopefully there'll be more. We all need all the help we can get and a few PRAYERS would sure go along way and be appreciated. My name is OLIGOS

What fabulous responses from ALIVE, JustPassingThrough, and dhchristian. The encouragement and advice has been SPOT ON and so much appreciated. Church should be just as described here with encouragement and an atmosphere of relaxation, freedom, trust, kindness and MUCH LOVE from the heart. BUT...all that being said - God has everything in His hands and has had a plan since eternity past. We are just "CLAY" and God is the "POTTER". God bless you all. My name is OLIGOS

You know PASSINGTHRU my bother, you are in my "WHEELHOUSE". I have been invisioning such a scenario and put is in God's hands and have left it up to Him to bring the right people together, if He wants, as I go on my walks in my neighborhood. I have so many people in the near vicinity who have left their church or have other similar circumstance, and I just met 2 more yesterday to add to the number. We even have a sort of rec room in our neighborhood. The scenario is so obvious, you'd almost have to be blind not to see it, BUT.... Everyone has an amazing heart for the lord and are so easy to talk to....BUT, I have learned not to get out ahead of the LORD and just stay in peace and wait on Him for HIS design and plan. I have learned to stay out of His way and just pray for wisdom and discernment, but keep my eyes open for what He is accomplishing. God always makes sure His plans are very obvious so He can accomplish His will in and through us. Thank you for your response and great encouragement. God bless you. My name is OLIGOS

Great input and mixture of idea's and opinions. I'm so content where I am in my life and all of you sound the same - PRAISE GOD My name is OLIGOS

The title may sound a bit strange. I actually borrowed it from the title of an online commentary that in this day and age reflects a growing dissent and dissatisfaction within more and more churches as more and more people are seeking more legitimate and authentic spiritual leadership and experience, and truth, INCLUDING MYSELF. In my circle of friends, neighbors, relatives and acquaintances, many of us have left our churches after decades of seeking a genuine, active faith in living for Christ, that is nowhere to be found anymore in my area of the world. When you go on line and research the current activity of Christianity around the U.S., the story is pretty much the same about the devout believers being tired and fed up with the changes in their church doctrine and how the leadership is trying to draw people in with MUSICAL EXYTAVAGANZAS, coffee and cookies, side show antics, and watering down the faith and the Gospel , to make it more acceptable to non-believers, but an atrocity and an abomination to the true Godly followers of Christ. It's a growing exodus that continues to expand, as God is calling His own people out to Himself. For me, over 40 years of faithful living and serving Christ in the church and the community, only to watch the churches I believed in begin to fall by the wayside of the path God calls "BROAD" in Matthew 7:13". It's hard not having a church home, but I put all of this in Gods hands to take care of, and God has been faithful as I have prayed about it and been patient, waiting in faith confidently, believing God would provide, and slowly but surely God is bringing true believers into my life that share the same authentic GODLY faith of love, consideration and Christian charity, and loving kindness. You wouldn't believe the joy I feel being around people with the loving Holy Spirit of Christ, and how I can feel His presence in their genuine hearts of true faith. They just "Vibrate His presence" in their loving Spirits. Like others, the Holy Spirit called me out as many others have been called out too, and I am so grateful to God that over time I learned to know His voice and feel Hid presence, and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and chose to follow. There is such a peace now in truly living for Christ and not feeling the pressure to be what others wanted me to be. Now I can be what Christ calls me to and have the freedom to respond in complete HARMONY with Gods word. You may not feel the same as me, or see the things I do, or things I experience, and that's OK, this is just one elderly mans commentary on how he see's life and living it in this world with Christ. Lastly, I'm not one to point fingers at churches or individuals, or to be a fault finder to cause dis-unity or cause division. Each person has the freedom to discover what works for them as they grow and become more like Christ as they are called to by the Holy Spirit. God bless. Thank you for taking the time to consider my post. My name is OLIGOS

This is an excellent topic on the trinity. Many years ago as I studied the word, it became apparent that God operated through 3 distinct personalities, much like a leader of the home does as husband, father , and provider as the 3 main functions. In scripture, God is called the "Godhead" which is another name for the Trinity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God is the first part of the trinity and when you look at all of creation, God is called the big planner, or the administrator ( Or oikonomia - Greek for designer or dispenser or "Ruler of the house" ) and of that plan, Ephesians 1:1-17, where all God created that includes the creation of man and how to communicate with man and dispense Himself into all of mankind called a dispensing, or dispensation, or dispensationalism, bringing to man the knowledge of Himself, and where God somehow and by some means places Himself into all who would have Him when they are called by God to Himself to believe in His son Jesus Christ. Secondly, as part of the trinity, God choose Jesus Christ as the means of dispensing Himself and all we are meant to have through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Also, Jesus is called our "Mediator" in !st Timothy2:5, "For there isone God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". Jesus mediated for us, much as a defense attorney mediates on the behalf of His client, telling the judege, "My client is innocent of all charges against Him Thirdly, the Holy Spirit, was sent into the world to "Convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgement, John 16:7-11. In John 14:16 Jesus said He would send the Spirit to us to be our helper, Comforter and Guide, and give us a counselor to be with us forever. Ist Cointhians 12 describes the Spiritual Gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit. And in Galatians 5:22, it describes the Spirits function as a "Fruit Producer in the lives of a believer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is so much more, but all this gives you a place to begin your studies and at the same time shows you the roles of each of person of the the Trinity. I pray to Jesus Christ for He is my mediator between God and I, but I also talk to and pray to the Holy Spirit as He is my helper in so many ways, and leads me and guides me into all truth, comforts me, and counsels me and convict me of my sins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Knowing the role of each of the Trinity is such a comfort with no confusion who to go to in my prayers. It's like working for a company where the manager is your boss, but there is also a production manager above him and the owner above him, and you know the role of each and who to go to for concerns or needs at the proper level. No confusion because it's in the company handbook, and we have a handbook called the bible that explains all that IF we read it!!! My name is OLIGOS

God never contradicts Himself - He is perfect and so is His word. God's word is in HARMONY with itself and the Plan He created before man or this world was created. It constantly amazes me that the created will try to rise above the creator in their arrogance to try and one up the all knowing from eternity to eternity. My name is OLIGOS

Onelight Thank you for responding. Your absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on around us so that we can respond to peoples questions. A lot of non-believers know something about the end days and we should be prepared to speak to them God's truth about those scriptures. Not all of us are called to be watchman as in scripture. Some of us may be called to be watchmen and sound alarms properly to our neighbors and friends and relatives, just being at peace as we share calmly what we see, and explain the best we can what it could mean, and how they can respond to it to be saved from the events we see unfolding. I'm at peace and not afraid and that speaks VOLUMNS to people because that's what they want to be like too. I believe prayer for our wisdom is essential for our being and saying what each person needs to hear. Allow God to speak through us. For those of us believers like myself, I don't see the future as bleak, for me it's not the end of the world, it's one of those exciting times when we have the opportunity to bring Christ and comfort to a scared and uncertain world looking to be saved like several in the book of Acts, who said "what must we do to be saved"??? God bless you for your comments. My name is OLIGOS

Mike McLees my brother. God has a different plan for each of us and we are called to that plan whether it's dying for Christ or speaking Christ into non-believers lives. I don't think our witness is about who's is greater, as the deciples argued over who's be greatest in the kingdom of heaven, and Christ rebuked them. I myself think honoring whatever we're called to do is the greatest thing we can do for our Savior, and for those who witness our willing and righteous response to God. When we surrender to God, He can do His best work through us for the sake of others, no matter what is going on around us. Be at peace, and let your calmness speak volumns to those who are anxious and afraid. We have nothing to fear, as we have life eternal that is in Christ eternal. My name is OLIGOS

...or, why don't we just wait to share Christs message, instead of being armchair futurists who aren't even part of what's happening. Why not be patient and see how everything unfolds as it's all in God's hands and we should easily see our part in all of this. No matter what is happening in the world we should still be doing the same thing as always, keeping our eyes open for those God brings to us to share His 2000 year old message. We could go on with our lives growing in Christ from His word and preparing for our chances to speak Christ to those who are angry, scared and confused, and don't see the answer to all of this that we carry from God and His word in our hearts. There is another way, and we can share that way with the people God brings to us to hear His message If things are going to get crazy and out of control, why forget who we are, and what God's primary plan is for all of us. There's a lot of very reasonable people out there looking for a different way to handle this, and I'm sure this is bringing on a lot more anxiety and stress along with what the coronavirus brought to them. We have the answers people!! All we have to do is pray for God to bring people to us that need God's message just like we did at one time, and actually still do. This is our call to arms, to stand up for Christ and His message to all the world. The world around us may be changing, but God's plan for us is still as it was 2000 years ago. "We are in the world, but not part of the world" and we need to remember that folks. I walk around my neighborhood several times a day, just visiting with folks and finding out what their thinking is, and looking for anyone who is anxious and looking for an ear to listen. You'd be surprised how people respond to a good listener. Our place is to be steadfast, calm, secure, stable and quietly courageous and unaffected by the chaous that is God's to deal with not ours. Will you do your part, and bring LOVE and COMFORT to a hurting world??? My name is OLIGOS

Which is more important? The way in which He speaks to us, or that He speaks to us at all. I'll take anything He has to say to me, anyway He wants too, and praise Him that He's willing to speak to me at all.. My name is OLIGOS