Charlie744

You are so right.... there are more than a few Christian denominations that require or demand one must be baptized in water, whether it is sprinkled,fully immersed or maybe there are some that would accept being spit on (just kidding here). Now that is legalism since many of these churches contend you will not get to heaven unless you are baptized in water --- this of course is WORKS. However, there is no question we must be baptized by the Holy Spirit... period. The baptism in water preceded Pentecost and, to me, was just another "type" pointing to Pentecost. Just my thoughts, Charlie

Thank you very much luigi for your thoughts and certainly your passion for His Word! If I may, I would ask you to consider looking at "just Daniel" for its interpretations and understandings before moving forward to Revelation. Daniel is necessary to understand Revelation and not the other way around. Yes, they certainly MUST agree but if we look to Revelation (and just about everyone does) to understand and interpret those very difficult verses in Daniel, then it becomes circular and now Revelation will define Daniel. So, before you bring in your understanding of Revelation and apply it to Daniel, let me ask you to interpret this "little horn" based on the information found in 2, 7,8 and 11. In addition to the reasons mentioned above why we should interpret Daniel "on its own" we should realize that this book was written to the JEWS FIRST, meaning that Paul and all the Jews up to the coming of the Messiah would have all the information / interpretation / understanding they would need to see the coming Messiah in Daniel. God would not be telling the Jews not to be too concerned with Daniel since you will need Revelation to interpret it... and oh by the way, Revelation will not be written for another 50 years or so... sorry about that! NO... because Daniel is so difficult to interpret in many chapters most folks looked to Revelation to interpret and then apply these to Daniel... If you were to follow this approach, then where is this AC? He is NOT found in Daniel only the "little horn" is specifically identified by Daniel. It is not correct to consider the "little horn" as a synonym for the AC.... This is a good example of an actor interpreted in Revelation being identified as the "little horn" in Daniel. If you were to follow this approach, then were is this Persian / Iran military force? Didn't Daniel just tell us the Persians were the second kingdom of Daniel's metal man image and was conquered by Greece? The only way you could say this is if you went to Revelation and interpreted it as such and they brought it back to Daniel.... Daniel just dealt with them... they are gone ... and also the Greek kingdom (the 3rd kingdom) has disappeared. The 4th kingdom begins as pagan Rome and is in power when the Messiah arrived. This "little horn" (papacy) will indeed come out of this 4th kingdom and will speak against God, think to change times and laws (4th commandment), and he will come to power (initially NO military force) and replace the pagan Roman empire (this "little horn" is specifically identified in Daniel 11:21 and also 36). There are so many other "today's accepted interpretations of Daniel" that were first identified or found or discovered or whatever term you want in the book of Revelation. They were sent right back to Daniel and made to "fit" these square messages into the round holes of Daniel. And for the past 100 years or so, these are now treated as "gospel" and are not challenged in any way. Unfortunately, most of this is due to the work of the "little horn" as well. In the early 1500's the Jesuits were commissioned to prepare a solid interpretation within Daniel that would remove the title of the "little horn" from the papacy. This happened at the time of the Reformation and the RCC was getting blasted in this issue and many others = works, purgatory, pope is god on earth, confession through their priests, on and on... They are the ones who promoted the "he" in Daniel 9:27 was not the Messiah but was this AC boogeyman who would come in the far future thus negating the papacy as the "little horn" (since Daniel tells us this "little horn" had been revealed for the past 1200 years at least as the papacy). So, they indeed corrupted the Word of God - especially Daniel. Once again, and it will be very difficult for most and impossible for many but if you could or would start your study of Daniel WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION OF REVELATION, you will indeed see a completely different message. It seems, and I was extremely surprised at this, that when I would offer my opinion and thoughts on Daniel I would always find the responses relied on their interpretations within Revelation. It would not matter if I asked them to just consider the verses in Daniel, they would refuse and point me to the verses, the actors and events they believe they found in Revelation.... and then because these two books must agree, Daniel must also mean what is interpreted in Revelation. Leave Revelation alone and understand the prophecies and messages to be found just within Daniel. Only then can they be applied to our understanding of Revelation. So far, I have not found ONE individual willing to walk down that road with me.... they almost immediately jump off the path and skip over to the Revelation path. I certainly understand this... it is what they have read, been taught, have accepted, on and on..... and unfortunately, they are not open to look at Daniel on its own and start at its beginning chapter. Just my thoughts, Charlie

I was continuing my study on Daniel 11 and I came across what looked like an exact picture of your timeline on a site authored by Tim Schaaf. I am not sure but he may have borrowed that from Stephen Bohr? Any thoughts? Charlie

I don’t know about that ..... right now I say that @rf52 is looking pretty good..... (Just kidding @rf52 or “Your Darkness”), Charlie (soon to be “In flames Charlie).

debrakay, I would ask that "you be you", and contribute and engage others in whatever topic or post interests you. Enjoy this forum and all the folks who have so much to share ..... and the absolute most important rule to follow is to ALWAYS hit the "react" button and give me a "thumbs up" OR BETTER after each and every post from me...... we can work out the financial details later. Best wishes, Charlie

I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING DARN IT. Charlie

Just wanted to mention... the ONLY reason I use caps is because I want to emphasize a point / word / concept / interpretation, etc. When I respond to another's post there is NO shouting ....... but please do not ask my dog if he agrees.... poor thing! Charlie

Zandy, in very short order, you have already witnessed the kind of folks that will support you in this journey and you will be amazed at the breath of knowledge and abilities these folks bring to this site. Best wishes, Charlie

Apparently, you have already started and now your enjoyable journey has just begun. Genesis is good.....Right off the bat, God is introducing Himself to the world.... He is telling us Who He is, What He has done, What He wants from us, on and on. Now, He did this for a reason; If you believe He is the God of the Universe, the Creator of all things, is Holy and Merciful, and is pure Love then everything is downhill from there. If the above is not totally embraced and brought into your mind and heart then all the wonderful sayings in Proverbs, or the tremendous stories and messages found within the OT, and even all the things said and done by Jesus Himself will not or never be enough.... you might enjoy the wisdom and morality revealed through the OT and NT, but rule #1 is to believe in the ONE and ONLY True God of EVERYTHING and He is YOUR CREATOR - all of this is found in Genesis. If you are successful in Him (Genesis), you will be able to view His Word the way He wants you to see and know it.... Otherwise, it might just be a bunch of great stories and nice sayings and not much more than an intellectual exercise..... Best wishes and use all the talented, knowledgeable folks within this forum to ask your questions and seek their view and interpretations.... there is NO better subject to consider on earth, Charlie

Now please understand I have NOT studied Revelation but I can offer a uninformed comment (which is probably as good as my informed comments, but that is another story).... I don't believe the "false prophet" is in any way Mohammed..... there have been many false prophets - Buddha, the gazillion ones within the Hindu religion, Confucius, on and on.... so why would one isolate on Mohammed? The false prophet, in my opinion, is one who will attempt to be one "like Jesus". He will "come in His Name", speak lies, etc. Meaning he will not just be ANOTHER nutcase, he will take God's Word and mix in his own words..... just like satan did in the desert when he tempted Jesus... use God's own Words against Him.... I don't see folks looking at Mohammed as Jesus.... he and all the rest were just confused....... Just my thoughts, Charlie

RM, in my last post to you I provided the actual verses in 2 and 7 that clearly STATE the number of the kingdoms to come... but you don't want to see them for yourself. If we were disagreeing on an "interpretation" I could understand but that is not the issue here. So, once again, please read this and only this and come to your own conclusion: 2:40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 7:7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully. Well, RM, please notice the word "finally" and "fourth" in 2:40 above. Please see the word "fourth beast" in 7:7 above. Please see the term "horn" and not "beast" in 7:8 above. I don't think Daniel can make this any clearer.... Charlie

I am not sure who the AC is but, for me, a more important figure is the one specifically mentioned in Daniel. We find the 4 kingdoms of the earth described in chapter 2, 7 & 8. The 4 kingdoms are "fixed" in 2, and then we are given additional characteristics / information for each of the 4 as they move into the later chapters of Daniel. In chapter 7 we are then introduced to an additional actors - the "little horn". The 10 horns were not a new actor as they were shown in 2 as the 10 toes. So this "little horn" actor will come out of the 4th kingdom (pagan Rome). They are not the beast, they are not the 4th kingdom but they take the power from the declining pagan Roman empire. This "little horn" will sit atop of the "beast" and is concerned with power, control, etc., over mankind using his religious / spiritual tools. He will indeed corrupt the Word of God, speak against Him, think to change times and laws (certainly the 4th commandment), contend he can forgive sins, and on and on. This is the one we have been subjected to since the 500 AD period. Like the movie "The Wizard of Oz", don't worry and concern yourselves about who is behind the curtain (some AC boogeyman), the one who is against God and wants to take your soul is right in front of us...... Just my thoughts, Charlie

RM, once again, thank you for taking the time to offer your thoughts. It is clear we do not interpret Daniel 2 & 7 the same. Daniel mentions 4 kingdoms and the verses above tell us. The “little horn” is not another kingdom or beast he is “the little horn” who comes OUT of the 4th kingdom. I have been trying to discuss Daniel 2 to establish the “foundation” of His prophecies to come in the later chapters- 7, 8, 9 & 11. We can certainly interpret 2 on its own... no need for Revelation here! But we all see Daniel and other verses in the Bible differently... and that is ok because our different interpretations do NOT contradict or take away from our faith, trust and love for God!!!!! Best wishes always and thanks for the thoughts and responses, Charlie

Questioning, there are a few things that come to mind re: your questions, your responses or perhaps your decision not to respond to a specific post, along with your two comments from your post above, "I believe I have a grasp for the truth", and "you don't know what the truth is". And of course what maybe a very big "tell" is your selection of your username "Questioning". You have studied Christianity for years and you seems you are now looking into other forms of worship....... Something (s) in Christianity is clearly not sitting very well within you ....... and this could be so many things it would be inappropriate to try and guess .... I can assure you NO ONE on this planet has all the answers but those within this forum are willing to throw out their interpretations .....Everyone comes out of the Scriptures with different interpretations.....never going to change! With the level of Christian education in your pocket and your ability to identify your own concerns (and you are the only one who can identify them), this might be a perfect opportunity to take each one and drill down on it within this group. You still may not agree with anyone but you should be able to either strengthen your current opinion or move it off its present position. So, at the risk of coming across as "pestering or pushing" you, perhaps you would not mind posting one issue (at a time) that is keeping you from Christ...... If not, God bless, Charlie

I don't think he knows and or cares! You see, after @Marathoner told me this secret I started playing around and found if you type in the @ sign and their username AND you also click on the emoji that looks like a fish, then that user "sleeps with the fishes" and is no more...... Note: However, if you select an emoji that looks like an angel the user will return without any memory or harm. I have been doing this with Justin for over an hour --- dead / not dead, dead / not dead..... he doesn't even know its happening to him... Gotta go...... Justin has been gone too long this time.... time to bring him back! Charlie

I would have responded earlier but I just got out of the emergency center.....back of my head still hurts. Please let me know where to send the hospital bill for the $600 deductible.... Best wishes @Marathoner, Charllie

Marathoner, thank you very much for your response / answer..... me think you might be a professor or one along those lines.... thank you! So, I am going to try this now.... @Justin Adams .... yes, it certainly worked! And by the way, if @Justin Adams gives you any trouble you just tell him he should be happy you remember his name..... he can really be trouble sometimes.... @Justin Adams @Justin Adams @Justin Adams @Justin Adams @Justin Adams Now, how do you like that @Justin Adams and don't you dare say an unkind word to Marathoner.... Be nice @Justin Adams Charlie

Just saw this topic ... My initial thoughts after reading this question came to me as follows: 1) Is it from "unbelief"? If one does not believe either in the one true God or he/she believes in Buddha, or new age, or is a Muslim, from THEIR point of view there is and has been NO sin in play. In fact, they are more than likely very comfortable with their views and would rather comment on your ignorance should you be a follower of Christ. a) And WITHOUT trying to understand and explain to "anyone's" satisfaction, since I have no ability to do so, there is a passage in the John 15:16--- 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 1) how the above ties in with one's ability or likeness or desire to even consider Christ is beyond me, 2) Therefore, the only purpose for one to "repent" is for them to have an understanding and acceptance of what sin is. If they do not believe in the 10 commandments, there can be no sin in their minds. Repentance can and will put our a "fire" but for those that do not or refuse to see there IS a "fire" there is no need any water or to contact the fire department. Just my thoughts, Charlie

Marathon, I noticed on the first line of your response here to DeighAnn that you were able to specifically identify her username in the shaded area... which I believe is a function within WCM that tells her she has been directly quoted. Can you please tell me how to accomplish this? Thanks, Charlie

not an echo, I believe you are one of a very few that have departed from the "accepted interpretation" that Daniel's 70th week is STILL TO COME. However, we seem to have a slight difference of opinion and it certainly can be discussed here if you are willing. Above you say the last week started in v. 11:1. I think I see the last week is being discussed or revealed by Daniel after 11:4 (the first 4 verses in 11 merely recap or summarize the first 3 kingdoms of Daniel's chapter 2 metal man image and it also mentions that Alexander's empire was disbursed among his 4 generals... (and these are and never would be "kingdoms"). Consequently, for me, 11:5 begins the revealing of the 4th kingdom and all the actors and events that will take place with the coming Messiah. I would welcome your comments and thoughts to the above opinion and also why you believe 11:1 is your start of the 4th kingdom... thanks so much, Charlie

RM, please note the following: On 3/6/2021 at 3:56 AM, Charlie744 said: It is more than apparent I have not expressed my interpretations properly as some of your comments are no different than mine..... I agree there are 4 kingdoms yet I believe you count 5.... This is in contradiction to Daniel 2 where Daniel is told of the meaning of Nebs. Vision and there are only 4 kingdoms. Wrong sir, Nebs Dream speaks of Iron and Clay, that is not the Roman Iron portion of the Statue, and we are told (WHY IGNORE IT? It’s so easy to decipher) in Dan. 7:11 that the Beasts BODY is DESTROYED and then he is cast into hellfire. So, let’s pretend the Anti-Christ/Little Horn isn't a 5th Beast even though the very words in the book of Daniel say he is. God gave us parables so the world could not understand what we can understand as led by the Holy Spirit. HOW? By reading the bible and putting the whole puzzle together. If God calls the Little Horn's BODY a BEAST then the Little Born is a BEAST. The whole Rev. 17 chapter is designed to explain unto us that the 7th Mountain is a MAN. RM, here is my response to the nine comments you have made and where we can address EACH SEPARATELY before we move to the next.... Daniel’s Chapter 2 39 After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. Daniel’s Dream of Four Beasts – Chapter 7 1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. 2 Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. 4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it. 5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’ 6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. 8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully This seems clear to me: 4 kingdoms coming in consecutive order after conquering the previous one, and then “a little horn will come out of the 4th kingdom (beast). BEFORE you move on to Revelation and bring those verses in to interpret Daniel, you should stay within Daniel to interpret Daniel. RM, a couple of weeks ago I asked if you would like to “walk” through Daniel beginning with chapter 2 and compare / discuss each other’s interpretations…… after a very short attempt you decided not to continue this approach…… no problem, but it appears to me that you are comfortable with using Revelation to interpret Daniel and I wanted to simply use his verses to interpret his message. Your response above to my comment is not found within Daniel….. I have pasted the verses from Daniel that speak of the 4 kingdoms. So, would you please focus on the issue #1 above (your comment) re: the 4 or 5 kingdoms, the little horn, etc.? Thanks, Charlie

RM, thanks for your comments! I am going to take a little time here ... you have given a long response. Get back to you ... soon... we’ll maybe not soon, but sooner than the second coming.... maybe... Charlie

Ok, I can not see how Adam was alive prior to God breathed into him... Please tell me how or why you think this, thanks, Charlie

I will have to go back and read Gen. 2:7.... I can’t see why that would make sense. Charlie

I hope you understood I was joking.... No offense intended! But if I were a betting man I don’t see why God would have given them a belly button since they did not come out of the womb. Charlie