John n Claudia

@Revelation Man, the church was grafted into the vine, but we have not replaced the Jews. They are dearly loved by the Father and He will graft them back in at the proper time. The promises made to the Jews are for the Jews, the Church did not take the Jew's place in God's heart and He will honor all of the promises that were made to them. God loves the Church as well and the Church has its own set of promises that God will honor, but we are not the Jews and should not presume to usurp their promises. God made the Holy Land desolate for as long as the Jews were dispersed and after they returned to the land, God has made it blossom. The land and the people are both very important to the Lord, and God's plan for the World went forward even while the Jews were dispersed. The Beast and the Statue have a hiatus because the empire system will be disbanded after the last of the empires (the seventh empire) only to reappear with the antichrist. You agree that the Roman Empire is the sixth head, this means that there must be one more empire before the system goes away. Look more closely at the Romans 11:26, specifically the very last clause. The deliverer (Jesus) will turn away ungodliness from Jacob (Israel) when He returns. The Jews as a group will not accept Jesus as Messiah until after He comes back and completes all of the tasks that the Messiah is supposed to accomplish. Jesus needs to defeat the enemies of the Jews, reunite all twelve tribes and set up the Millennial Kingdom. Only after this happens, not sometime in the middle of the Tribulation, will the Jews accept Jesus as Messiah and worship. Now let us look at Malachi 4:5 - 6 in the ESV: 5"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 6And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." Who exactly is Elijah in this prophecy? In Matthew 11:14 Jesus referred to John the Baptist as the Elijah who is to come. John tried to turn the hearts of the Jews with his preaching and after John was unsuccessful and the Jews rejected both his message and Jesus, God struck the land with destruction for nearly 1900 years before restoring it once His wrath against the Jews was fully satisfied. Hasn't this prophecy already been fulfilled? And you ignore that the head of the fourth beast was the Eastern Roman or the Byzantine Empire. Europe will play a part in the end time events and they will eventually be a part of the antichrist's empire, but it will not be the place where the empire arises. Why is it obvious that the Roman Empire is the empire that got healed? It is true that the Roman Empire lasted around 2000 years, but it was killed in 1453 and there are no remains of that once mighty empire. In the west, Italy changes governments every year and is not even considered a European power, let alone a world power. In the east, there is no place where people remember the glorious days of the Roman empire. If anything, they remember the days of the Ottomans and how ruthless they were. Of course Israel will be conquered. They will flee Jerusalem around the time of the abomination. This is explicitly stated. Nowhere does the Bible say that the conquering empire will come from Europe. Instead the Bible tells us the conquering empire will come from Assyria. I agree that I am assuming that the pattern that exists between the first six heads should also be applied to the seventh head. I make this assumption because the seven heads are all on a single beast. In contrast to this, you are making the assumption that the pattern that applies to the first six heads of the beast should NOT apply to the seventh head. I think that my assumption is more consistent with how we should approach the interpretation of prophecy than assuming the pattern will change with the very last head of the beast. We agree that the first six empires were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. We also agree that all these empires controlled the Holy Land and that each one defeated the previous empire (other than Egypt which did not have a predecessor). We also agree that these are six of the heads of the beast John saw in Revelation. That beast had seven heads and John does not distinguish between those heads, so yes, I assume the pattern of empires should continue through all of the heads and the transition between heads all should be similar. I claim that the two properties that define a head of the beast are the two things that we agree happened with the first six heads. Based on that, I look for the seventh head to have those same properties and it is immediately apparent that only the Ottoman Empire meets those conditions. On the other hand you say that after the sixth head (the Roman Empire), God put an end to the empire system until the antichrist resurrects the sixth head with the empire of Apollyon which the antichrist will rule. How can the seventh head be the resurrection of the sixth head? The seventh head should be an empire in its own right just as the first six empires were. If your interpretation is correct, then which of the empires received the fatal wound and was healed? If this was the Roman Empire and the sixth head there is no need for a seventh head of the beast. If it is the seventh head, the empire of Apollyon and the antichrist, then when will that empire be killed and who will take over after the antichrist is dead? Without one additional empire after the Roman Empire, your beast is either missing a head or one of the heads never received a fatal wound. In either case it differs from what John saw in his vision and cannot be a correct interpretation of the vision. Enough said. I am assuming that you are referring to the agreement Israel signed on April 11, 2005 that was renewed three years later. If the peace treaty was signed 15 years ago, then how come Jesus has not yet returned? Your theory is that 3.5 years after the peace treaty, the antichrist will be revealed and Israel will flee Jerusalem. We are well past 3.5 years and last time I checked Israel was still a country and was doing very well. The last of the countries in the Middle East area to sign this treaty was Egypt which signed on March 6, 2007. Even if we accept this date for when the peace treaty was signed we are more than 9 years overdue for the abomination to occur. Doesn't this indicate to you that your belief in a peace treaty leading to the abomination is incorrect and that you should examine your assumptions? Your own evidence is showing that your beliefs must be wrong. Isn't it time to be academically honest and go back to your assumptions to see where they are wrong?

Because of your euro-centrism you ignore the fact that the Holy Land is more important to God than any other place on the Earth. In fact it is more important than all the rest of the planet. This is why you have restricted the Roman Empire to the Western Roman Empire and do not recognize that the Eastern half of the empire became the head of the fourth beast (the Roman Empire) when Diocletian split the empire in two, kept the eastern half for himself and ruled from Nicomedia (modern day's Izmit, Turkey). As far as the antichrist coming from one of the four generals that split Alexander's empire, there is a lot of overlap between the Eastern Roman or Byzantine Empire and the land controlled by any of the four of Alexander's generals. There is no reason to choose Greece for the birthplace of the antichrist unless you are stretching the scriptures to try and make prophecy happen in a place where you feel comfortable. You also ignore that there were seven heads of the beast in Revelation and the last head that received a mortal was healed. The seven heads means that there is a series of seven empires, each one defeating the previous empire and all seven empires occurring one after the other. The last head receiving the mortal wound means that the seventh empire will be resurrected as the empire of the antichrist. Instead of accepting what scripture says, you chose to stop the empire system at six since the sixth empire happened to control a lot of land in a part of the world that you like while the seventh empire lived in the same area as the first five. It is the seventh head of the beast in Revelation that will be resurrected not the sixth and the sooner we lay aside our prejudices against that part of the world, the sooner the Holy Spirit will be able to guide us and show us the truth about what has been revealed in prophecy. God tells us where the end time events will be centered and none of the events involve Europe. Closing our eyes to what is said in the Bible and putting a gap in the empire system until it is resurrected with the empire of the antichrist. For the record, the seventh head of the beast is the empire that defeated the (Eastern) Roman Empire. That empire received its mortal wound when it sided with the Axis and was defeated in WW1 and it will be resurrected when ten countries (the ten toes in Daniel and the ten crowns in Revelation) join together to recreate it. Ignoring the seventh head of the beast and misinterpreting the sixth head to be the Western Roman Empire rather than the Eastern Roman Empire that retained control of the Holy Land ignores what happened in world history as well as the Bible's focus on the Middle East. The western world may consider Europe to be the place that reached the pinnacle of knowledge and denigrate the accomplishments and history of the rest of the world, but we need to accept the fact that for some reason God chose the Holy Land for His people and for His home and that is the part of the world where end time events will be centered. Let us take look at what Daniel 11:37 tells us about the antichrist. The KJV can be a little difficult, so let us look at the ESV instead: 36"And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price. It is true that verse 37 says that the antichrist will "magnify himself above all" or that he will claim to be better than any of the gods people have worshiped in the past and that he is even better than God. But now look at verses 38 and 39. There we see that "He shall honor the god of fortresses ... A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor ... He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god." This is saying that the antichrist will honor a god and this means that he is not going to be an atheist. In context, verses 37 - 39 are saying that the antichrist is going to introduce a new religion where he is the highest god. The easiest way to do this is to have a religion whose beliefs are similar to the beliefs of the existing religions and then modify the existing beliefs to "correct" them. This is what the Romans did when they integrated the pagan religions of Rome and Christianity. I cannot say exactly how the antichrist will modify the beliefs, but he will use our current religions against us. Both Christianity and Islam prophesy that Jesus (or Isa) will return bodily to the earth, the antichrist will use that belief together with the miracles he will do (like calling fire out of heaven) to convince us that he is Jesus and will then correct the "mistakes" that have crept into the Bible and Quran over the years. You are correct that without supernatural intervention no Muslim country today could become a superpower. It is also true that in 1947 without supernatural intervention Israel could not become a nation in their traditional homeland. Despite this, the nation Israel was created in 1948, just as was predicted in the Bible. I personally believe the Bible over my own reasoning and what I see with my eyes. The Bible says that the seventh empire will be reborn and I believe it because the Bible says it will happen. It does not matter that it seems impossible. Bible prophecy has a way of coming true no matter what odds people give it. You are correct that a Muslim nation would never be able to create a peace treaty with Israel. This is also true about a European nation. The hatred between the Arabs and Jews goes back thousands of years and is not going to be resolved until one or the other is dead. Please examine your beliefs about the supposed peace treaty that will be signed. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the treaty will be between the Jews and their enemies. The strong covenant that is made is not a treaty making peace in the Middle East, but rather is a treaty that unites the ten countries and recreates the seventh empire as a Muslim Caliphate so that they can attack Israel. Satan has been extremely successful in twisting Christian beliefs about the Tribulation. The Tribulation period is described as the most difficult time the Jews have ever experienced on the Earth. Given this, how can anyone claim with a straight face that for half of this most difficult time Israel will live in peace with her neighbors? A time of peace does not strike me as difficult at all, let alone the most difficult in all of Israel's history. Thank you for the insight into your history. Knowing that you have devoted your life to the beliefs you hold allows me to understand why you are so vocal in defending them even when they contradict the scriptures. I am 53 and have also held many beliefs over the years that have become strongholds that held me back from seeing what God wanted me to see. I pray that you do not take my posts as a personal attack against you, but see them as they are intended. I am trying to shine the light of the Word on your beliefs in order that you may understand what is actually said in the scriptures. With regard to Biblical prophecy, the most difficult belief I had to abandon was the belief that the seals, trumpets and bowls formed a single sequence of events and the first trumpet could not sound until after the seventh seal was opened. I struggled with this and that delayed my understanding of Revelation for years. However, once I accepted that this was the only way to reconcile the multiple raptures described in the book, I was finally able to see how all of these fit together. As world events unfold and the Holy Spirit gives me insight into what is happening, my understanding increases and with each new revelation I give glory to God. I pray that you will open yourself up in the same way. John told us that in his days there were already many antichrists. Many biblical prophecies have multiple fulfillments and it is unclear exactly which one is the final fulfillment until it occurs and we see it for what it is. I base my beliefs not just on John 5:43 but also on Daniel 11 that you brought up earlier. Most of the time there are multiple prophecies that each shed a slightly different light on what is happening and unless you use all of them you can easily be misled into an incorrect belief. One of the areas in which we disagree is with regard to the time of the rapture. I fall in the post-trib camp while you are pre-trib. The thing that finally convinced me that the pre-trib view could not be true is the combination of Revelation 10:7 with Ephesians 3:9 - 10. Since the church is the mystery, the hidden plan of God (Ephesians) and this is not going to end until the seventh trumpet (Revelation), this must mean that the church is around for the first six trumpets and cannot be raptured before the tribulation starts. With regard to who rules with Christ, this is going to be the entire church. Paul tells us that the dead in Christ will rise first and then those of us still living will meet Jesus in the air. The entire church will come together. This includes the living and the dead regardless of how they died. The church does not return to finish off New Jerusalem. The work that Jesus does is always complete. He completed EVERYTHING that he was meant to do while He was on the Earth and He will also complete EVERYTHING he was meant to do while He was in Heaven for the last 2000 years. Jesus said that He was going to prepare a place for us, not that He was going to start a construction project and would bring us in to finish it. The Church will rule and reign with Christ in the completed New Jerusalem when He comes for us. The Church rules and reigns with Christ in New Jerusalem and as a shadow or reflection of that glorious kingdom, the Prince and the Jews will rule and reign on the Earth during the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom. We agree that the rapture is going to happen. We just disagree by about seven years with regard to when it is going to happen. With regard to Islam being killed off in Revelation 17:16, Jesus has already told us that a divided kingdom cannot stand. Satan and the antichrist are both part of the same kingdom and Islam has been a might force in Satan's hand. The antichrist will not divide Satan's kingdom by destroying the most powerful tool in Satan's arsenal. With regard to the five beliefs I cited before, let me clarify a little: The Tribulation will start with a peace treaty in the Middle East. The Tribulation is going to be the time of the most intense persecution that the Jews have ever experienced. This cannot be reconciled with half of the time being a time of peace. The strong treaty that is negotiated is a treaty that will unify ten countries and embolden them in their hatred of Israel. This will lead to the start of a war that Israel will lose after a little less than 3.5 years. The antichrist comes from Europe and the beast is the EU. The antichrist comes from Assyria as prophesied in Micah and Isiah. The beast is the seventh head of the beast that received a mortal wound that John saw in Revelation. This is the empire that conquered the Eastern Roman Empire in 1453 and which we know as the Ottoman Empire, a Muslim Caliphate. The church will be raptured before the tribulation starts. As shown earlier in this post, the church will be raptured with the seventh and last trumpet at the end of the Tribulation. It will also be raptured at the seventh seal and the seventh bowl because all of these occur at the same time. The seals, trumpets and bowls form three separate sequences of events, not one long sequence. The church will return to rule with Jesus on the Earth during the Millennial Kingdom. Jesus and the church will rule and reign in New Jerusalem up in the air while the prince (from Ezekiel) and the Jews will rule and reign here on Earth. Armageddon is a battle between God and man, and Jesus will lead God's forces to victory. Armageddon is a battle between the forces of the antichrist and the forces of the king of the east. Each side will also bring their allies into the battle and that is why all the armies of the earth will gather. After the antichrist defeats the king of the east, his empire will rejoice because after nearly seven years of war they have finally defeated all of their enemies just as they believe was prophesied in the Bible. They will be celebrating their victory and looking forward to 1000 years of peace where they rule the Earth when Jesus returns. It is this victory that convinces many of the holdouts that the antichrist really is Jesus in his second coming and the whole world will worship him. This is exactly what is prophesied in 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

I am trying to do that, but the timeline still does not make sense to me. How much time do you see there being between the time the church is raptured and we meet Christ in the air and the the time that Jesus and the church return to the Earth to usher in the Millennial Kingdom? I am also confused by what armies are going to converge on Jerusalem and when they will converge. In my studies, I only see the armies attacking the Jews and Jerusalem around the time of the abomination of desolation. After the Jews flee at this point in time, they are no longer in Jerusalem so they can't flee a second time later on in the Great Tribulation. Can you be a little more explicit on when you think the rapture will take place and how much time will elapse between the rapture and when Jesus returns to the Earth?

@Revelation Man, why are you so insistent that the antichrist has to come from the EU when there is so much Bible prophecy that indicates that the antichrist is not coming from the EU? When there are obvious contradictions between my beliefs and what the Bible says, I always trust the Bible more than myself and go back to reexamine my assumptions and find out where I went wrong. I have had to do this multiple times over the past few years before I was finally able to reject the incorrect teachings about the end times that I learned from my church and the Bible studies and books that I read. Because I did this and listened to the corrections of the Holy Spirit, the Lord was able to show me a timeline of end time events that not only fits with every end time prophecy I have examined, it also shows how Satan and the antichrist will use the incorrect teachings to deceive the world into believing that the antichrist really is Jesus returned in the flesh. The beliefs that I had to abandon include, but are not limited to the following: The Tribulation will start with a peace treaty in the Middle East. The antichrist comes from Europe and the beast is the EU. The church will be raptured before the tribulation starts. The church will return to rule with Jesus on the Earth during the Millennial Kingdom. Armageddon is a battle between God and man, and Jesus will lead God's forces to victory. I am confident that I will get a lot of flak for saying that these five things are all false. All five of these are widely held beliefs and there does appear to be Biblical support for all of them. However a close examination of Biblical prophecy will show that none of these is true. The belief about the battle of Armageddon is especially heinous because the antichrist is going to be leading one of the armies in that battle and when he secures the victory, Christians around the world will believe that the antichrist truly is Jesus in his second coming and will abandon their faith in the true God in order to worship the antichrist.

I believe that the urgency is not only personal within the Christian community, but it is also being felt within the secular Gentile world. The number of end time and apocalyptic movies coming out in theaters as well as on NetFlix and Amazon Prime Video is amazing. I personally have not encountered anyone who is unwilling to engage in a conversation about the end times and Bible prophecy regarding the end times. Even when they are skeptical, they still listen and ask questions. There is no question in my mind that we are in the final generation and we will see the antichrist and his empire appearing very soon.

Oh. I thought the antichrist was leading the armies that were attacking the Jews and after the antichrist wins that battle, he goes to the temple mount and declares himself God. After the Jews are completely overwhelmed, he then turns his attention to the Christians with the blowing of the sixth trumpet.

Micah 5:5 tells us that the antichrist will come from Assyria. There are also prophecies in Isiah chapters 7, 10 and 30 that also indicate that Assyria will persecute the Jews during the last days. Many people overlook Revelation chapter 17 when the angel tells John that the Roman Empire must die and another empire must rise up. The response when this is pointed out is that this is the empire of the antichrist, but in context, this empire must be similar to the six empires that came before it and so they must rule over an area that includes the Holy Land and they must defeat the previous empire. Once you have this as your starting point and look at world history, it becomes obvious who the seventh empire is and where the empire of the antichrist must come from.

@Billiards Ball, So the church is raptured at the Days of Awe and we meet Jesus in the air as Paul says, but Jesus does not continue all the way down to the Earth, so this is not His Second coming. Then a little later on, after the first six bowls are poured, Jesus does return all the way to the Earth, bringing us with Him to punish the Gentiles and usher in the Millennial Kingdom. My understanding is that the armies are going to converge on Jerusalem around 30 days before the midpoint of the tribulation since that is when the antichrist declares himself to be God and the abomination of desolation occurs. Does this mean that we should look for a mid-trib rapture?

Are you saying that the rapture occurs and we meet Jesus in the air at His second coming before the first bowl and then Jesus returns a third time like a thief to take care of the unbelievers?

@Billiards Ball, Revelation 16:15 tells us that Jesus coming as a thief is still in the future. This happens after the sixth bowl was poured out in Revelation 16:12. Doesn't this mean that the rapture must happen after the sixth bowl rather than before the first bowl?

One of my pet peeves is the claim that God will not give a warning before the rapture occurs. It is true that a superficial reading of the Bible seems to imply that Jesus will return like a thief in the night without any warning and many people use this as an excuse to not prepare for His return. Their reasoning is that since Jesus is coming as a thief and we cannot know when He will return, there is no way that we can prepare for it. Let us take a closer look at the verses that claim Jesus is coming as a thief in the night. Two of the verses in question are: Therefore you too must always be ready, for the Son of Man will come when you are not expecting him. (Matthew 24:44) You too, be ready! For the Son of Man will come when you are not expecting him. Luke 12:40 In these verses, Jesus is talking to the apostles and at that time what Jesus said was absolutely true. When Jesus spoke these words, nobody knew the time Jesus would return. But when we look at these verses in context, we see that Jesus is telling us that there would be signs at the end that would tell us when He was returning and told us to look for those signs. Looking at the complete passage Matthew 24:15 says: So when you see the abomination that causes devastation spoken about through the prophet Daniel standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand the allusion) In this passage, Jesus is talking to His disciples. These are the people who would start the Church and there is no question that this passage was meant for the believers. This means that in verse 15, Jesus is telling us that the Church will see the abomination that causes desolation. The abomination is going to occur before the midpoint of the tribulation, so the Church will not only have 7 days of warning, we will have more than 42 months of warning. Another passage that is used to that there will not be any advance warning of the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 5:1 – 2 1But you have no need to have anything written to you, brothers, about the times and dates when this will happen; 2because you yourselves well know that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. This is convincing until you read the next two verses: 3When people are saying, “Everything is so peaceful and secure,” then destruction will suddenly come upon them, the way labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there is no way they will escape. 4But you, brothers, are not in the dark, so that the Day should take you by surprise like a thief Verse 4 specifically says that only the unbelievers will be surprised. We, as believers versed in the Holy Scriptures, will not be surprised because we are searching the scriptures and interpreting what is happening in the world according to the light that the scriptures shine. 2 Peter 3:10 is another passage used to show the imminence of the rapture and that we will not know the time or day is. 10However, the Day of the Lord will come “like a thief.” On that Day the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt and disintegrate, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up. And again, when we look at the verses immediately after this one, we see: 11Since everything is going to be destroyed like this, what kind of people should you be? You should lead holy and godly lives, 12as you wait for the Day of God and work to hasten its coming. That Day will bring on the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt from the heat; 13but we, following along with his promise, wait for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will be at home. 14Therefore, dear friends, as you look for these things, do everything you can to be found by him without spot or defect and at peace. In verse 14, we are told to look for these things. We are to look for these things because in the last days, we will be given signs that will tell us when Christ is returning so we will not be surprised. If there were not any warning signs before the rapture, Peter would not have told us to look for signs. Instead he would have told us to hold fast to our beliefs even when we do not see anything to indicate that Jesus is returning. Another passage used is Revelation 3:3 where Jesus tells us He is coming as a thief 3So remember what you received and heard, and obey it, and turn from your sin! For if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief; and you don’t know at what moment I will come upon you. But when we take a closer look, we see that Jesus is telling us that He is only coming like a thief to those who don’t wake up. The obvious implication being that if we do wake up and search the scriptures, if we get to know who Jesus is and are saved, we will know when He is returning. When put into context, every Bible verse that is used to claim that Jesus will return like a thief in the night and that we will never know when the rapture will occur is actually telling us that we are to look for signs and that at the proper time, we will be told when Jesus is returning and when the rapture will occur so that we will not be surprised when it happens. Those Christians who recognize the abomination when they see it will have at least 42 months of warning. I personally believe that we will recognize not just the abomination, but also the beginning of the Tribulation and will have close to seven years of warning as to when Jesus will be returning.

@Oseas Ramos de Siqueira, thank you for the additional information on the Roman Empire. I very much agree with you that we are living in the time period of the ten toes and very soon we will see the rise of the antichrist's empire. However, I also believe that there must be one other empire after the Roman Empire because in Revelation 17:10 the angel tells John that there is one more empire to come. When I looked at the first six empires (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome), I saw two things that were common to these empires: They each controlled the Holy Land. Each one defeated the previous empire (Rome defeated the kingdoms that came from Alexander's empire) Note that these empires were not all universal empires and there were other empires like Genghis Khan and the Mongols, Chinese and Japanese Empires and even in the Americas we had the Aztecs and Incas that controlled large land areas. None of these empires fits in with the sequence of seven empires because they do not meet the conditions above. In order to continue with this series and get to the seventh empire that was still to come when John received his vision, we need to figure out who defeated Rome and controlled the Holy Land. The only empire that satisfies both of these criteria is the Ottoman Empire which defeated Rome when they sacked Constantinople in 1453. It is true that the British Empire defeated the Ottomans and took possession of the Holy Land for a short time and because of that might be considered an eighth empire in the sequence. However they conquered the Holy Land as part of a coalition rather than independently and they treated the Holy Land differently than the other empires treated it. Britain was already in decline when they defeated the Turks and rather than trying to control the land, they and the other allies in WW1 looked to divide the area into independent countries. Additionally after WW2, they along with the rest of the UN gave the land back to the Jews. The British rule of the land was very different than the rule of the other empires and that is why I do not see them as an eighth beast empire. I also see multiple prophecies in Isiah and Micah chapter 5 (after it says that Jesus will be born in Bethlehem) where the Bible clearly specifies that the antichrist will come from Assyria. If the antichrist is coming from Assyria, then his empire will start out in the Middle East rather than in Europe. Both the direct and indirect evidence supports the belief that the Antichrist's Empire will be a rebirth of the Ottoman Empire rather than a rebirth of the Roman Empire like the vast majority of Christians today believe.

I agree that with the dispersal of Israel there could not be a beast ruling over them, but this does not mean that the beast system ended with the dispersal. I also disagree with your assertion that God does not care about Palestine. God chose the Jews and he gave them that land. Solomon built a house for God and He came down to Earth and dwelt in Jerusalem with His people. The land is special to God and it was his home here on Earth. God has emotions just as humans do and God cares about His home just like you and I care about our home. As Christians, we should never denigrate any group of people. Even if they are enemies of God, He still loves them and we as God's servants must do the same. During the dark ages in Europe, Muslims preserved ancient knowledge. They developed better mathematical systems that Europeans and Christians. There is a reason that today we still use Arabic Numerals. Painting all Muslim nations and all Muslims with as backwards does a disservice to the Kingdom of God. With that out of the way, I need to ask why you think that Israel would make a peace treaty with anyone Muslim or E.U. From what I can see, the Bible says that there will be a strong covenant, but it never explicitly states who will make the covenant. Based on everything that I have studied on this, the covenant will not be between Israel and the last beast but will rather be a covenant among the ten kings who unite to give a rebirth to the last beast or empire. I know that this disagrees with what is commonly taught, but a careful reading of the scriptures will show that the covenant made by the antichrist is not a covenant with Israel. With regard to the antichrist being born in Greece, prophecies in Isiah and Micah agree that the antichrist will come from Assyria. I trust the explicit prophecies in the Bible and if anyone contradicts those prophecies I need to do my best to gently correct those beliefs. When I am on the other side and my beliefs contradict the prophecies in the Bible, I would hope that someone would do me the favor of gently correcting my beliefs. Please take the time to more closely examine your beliefs and why you believe the antichrist is coming from Greece when the Bible says that he comes from Assyria. We have gone back and forth several times on this point and I don't think that either of us is going to convince the other of our position. I came to the conclusion that the land was important because I believe that the beast / empire system was going to last throughout all human history and with this, I am able to see a series of seven empires that match exactly what Bible prophecy says will happen. I disagree with the conclusion that the land is not important and the beast system only interacts with the Jewish nation because under that scenario I only see six empires when the Bible says there should be seven. You hold your position because you see the seventh empire as the empire that will come about during the tribulation and in that see a consistency with Bible prophecy. I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I am sorry, but I have no clue where you have gotten these dates from. Can you give a more detailed explanation with Bible references. I disagree with much of what you say here but would like to learn why you believe the rapture will occur before the tribulation starts, Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah before the antichrist conquers Jerusalem and years before Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation. I also do not know what you mean by anything starting with "the two witnesses are the 1335". My understanding of the tribulation timeline is that halfway through the seven year tribulation, Satan and his demons are thrown from the air to the ground. 30 days before the midpoint, the antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem and the Abomination of Desolation occurs. I do not see any specific dates when Israel accepts Jesus as their messiah or when the two witnesses or the false prophet are revealed. Instead, I believe that Israel will accept Jesus as their Messiah after He returns and completes all of the tasks that the Messiah is supposed to do. I also believe that God has already revealed the identity of the false prophet and the two witnesses so there is no need for them to be revealed at a specific point during the tribulation. I agree that the antichrist demands to be worshiped as the only God. However the beast and the antichrist are different. The Beast is the resurrected seventh kingdom and the antichrist is a person, so these cannot be the same. In my original post, I did not reference either the beast or the antichrist, but instead said that Satan is not trying to get everybody to believe the same thing. Satan is different from both the beast and the antichrist. Satan is happy to have people believe in anything other that the true God. Satan does not care which god you worship as long as it is not God. If you worship the Greek, Roman or Norse gods, Satan knows that he has your soul. He will not destroy you on earth, but instead will use you to deceive others. Because the Harlot = All False Religion of ALL TIME. I am sorry, but I really do not understand what you are saying here. Did you understand the difference between the harlot in verse 17:15 and the harlot in 17:16? It is important to make sure we distinguish between Satan and the antichrist. The antichrist is a man who is a tool that is going to be used by Satan to deceive many. Yes, the antichrist will demand to be worshiped as the only God, but this does not mean that Satan can't use a person who does not worship the antichrist during the tribulation period to deceive others and draw them away from God. Both Islam and Christianity teach that Jesus is coming back (though Muslims call him Isa rather than Jesus). When the antichrist does come, he is going to try and convince the world that he is Jesus and this is his second coming. In order to accomplish this, the antichrist will do miracles including calling fire down from heaven. The Bible warns us that these will be so convincing that even the elect could be deceived. I do believe that Islam and the RCC will combine into a single religion and this will be the second two-horned beast, however this will not be a kumbaya event. As we speak, the two religions are in negotiations where each religion will accept the other and the Chrislam religion is trying to combine the two faiths. There is even a page in Wikipedia about this religion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrislam). It is possible that religions join together.

False Christs have been around pretty much since the very beginning of the Church. This is why in 1 John 2:18 we read: 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. According to the apostles, the last days started with the founding of the Church as did the signs of the last days. Jesus told us that the signs would increase more and more as the time for His return drew near. This is what we are seeing and this is why we need to listen to what Peter said in second Peter 3:10 - 11: 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, In other words, since we know that we are approaching Jesus' return, we need to live godly lives, studying the Word and praying for the salvation of our loved ones. We need to do exactly what we are doing here on these discussion boards, encouraging one another and growing our faith in the Lord.

I will have to disagree with your interpretation here. Yes, Israel was dead man's bones until 1948 when the bones were revived, but this does not mean that there was no beast. At a minimum, the Roman Empire beast lasted until 1453. As far as a beast opposing the church, I know that I personally have experienced this, even within my own family and there are multiple places in the New Testament where Paul writes about the opposition he has experienced. Perhaps you have had a different Christian experience than I have had, but there is no question in my mind that the church has been opposed for the last 2000 years. With regard to the reference of Daniel 2:42 - 43, I have found it useful to reference multiple translations when one particular translation is unclear. I typically start with the Complete Jewish Bible and then go to KJV, AKJV, 1599 Geneva, Amplified, Orthodox Jewish Bible and then I go to some Romanian translations that I have found to be especially helpful. The translation that I found to be most useful in this case is the Complete Jewish Bible which translates these verses as: 42Just as the toes of the feet were part iron and part clay, this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43You saw the iron mixed with clay; that means that they will cement their alliances by intermarriages; but they won’t stick together any more than iron blends with clay. This does seem to agree with your interpretation and yes it could apply to Europe, but it also applies to the Ottoman Empire where the leaders cemented their power through marriages but there was never really a clear line of succession and several times internal wars were fought over who would take over the empire. We also see this today among the different Muslim countries. They may have a common religion, but there is enough animosity between the countries that without supernatural intervention, their differences will keep them from joining together. With our different interpretations of the visions in Daniel 7 and 8 where I see the fourth beast as an amalgamation of the Roman, Ottoman and antichrist empires, it makes more sense to take the prophecies of Micah and Isiah that tell us the antichrist will come from Assyria at face value and believe that he will come from where the prophecies say he will come. With your limitation of the fourth beast to just the Roman Empire, that does force the location of the antichrist to move. Since my interpretation allows all of the prophecy to fit together seamlessly, I prefer that to believing something that forces the antichrist to move around. This is a very good question. The British definitely were an empire that spanned the globe and they did conquer the Holy Land in 1917. However, in order for an empire to be a beast, it must meet at least two criteria. It must control the Holy Land (which Britain did) It must defeat the previous beast (with the exception of Egypt since it was the first beast and there was not a prior beast for it to defeat). The question then becomes did Britain defeat the previous beast. If the previous beast was the Roman Empire, then it is not true that Britain defeated Rome. If the previous beast was the Ottomans, then yes, the British did defeat the Turks in 1917 at the end of WW1. This then raises the question of why isn't the British Empire an eighth head of the beast and in order to answer this, we need to look at how the British treated the Holy Land after they captured it. The answer of course is that after the British took over that land, they did not look to consolidate and hold on to it. With the expense associated with WW1, the British Empire was deep in dept and knew that it could not hold onto the territory long term, so the allies (not just Britain) started investigating ways that they could give up their colonies in order to save money. Then, just a few years later, WW2 arrived and by the time that was over, so was the British Empire. Their colonies were now all independent and the UN divided the Middle East up into the countries we have today. History has shown that even though Britain was an empire that defeated the Ottomans and controlled the Holy Land, their treatment of the land was different from the way the previous empires treated it and that is why it is not an eighth head of the beast. Note also that there were many empires throughout history that are not beasts. The Mongols under Genghis Khan controlled more land area than any other empire. The Chinese and Japanese had empires, as did the Aztecs and Inca's in the Americas. There were even empires like the Sumerians, the Ghassanids and the Sassanids in the Middle East. none of these empires are beasts in Biblical prophecy because they do not meet the two criteria of controlling the Holy Land and defeating the previous beast. As far as the Jews accepting Jesus as their Messiah, they will do that AFTER Jesus completes ALL of the tasks that the Messiah is supposed to do. This is only natural and God is not holding a grudge against the Jews because they are withholding judgement on Jesus until He accomplished EVERYTHING He is supposed to do. The Jews were dead bones until 1948, but they are no longer dead bones. They are living in the land and they are thriving just as God said they would. The last 72 years saw the coexistence of the Jews and the Church and God has blessed both groups. This will continue through the Tribulation and up until the rapture when we will meet Jesus in the air and help Him deliver the Wrath of God on the Gentile world. After the Wrath has finished and all twelve Jewish tribes are united back in the Holy Land, the Jews will recognize Jesus as the Messiah, the Millennial Kingdom will start and all the remaining nations of the world will bring tribute to Jerusalem. Why would the beast destroy Islam and the other false religions? Satan controls the beast and he is happy when people are led astray and worship a false god. Satan is not trying to get everyone to believe in the same thing. He gives many different choices in order to entice as many people away from worshiping the true God of the Bible as possible. Satan loves it when people worship the queen of heaven, whether it be the ancient Jews who were reprimanded by Jeremiah or the Roman Catholics and Muslims today. He is ecstatic about the success of the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. He even chuckles to himself when evangelical churches preach that it is OK to continue living sinful lives because God looks at the righteousness of Jesus rather than how we live our own lives. It is God who has to get His followers all believing the truth of who He is and what He expects from us. Satan just has to deceive us in one small point. We need to be very careful about the two harlots in Revelation 17:15 - 16. These are two different women and we can see this by looking at verses 16 - 18. Verse 16 tells us that the ten horns and the beast will hate the harlot, they will bring her to ruin, eat her flesh and consume her with fire. After this, verse 18 says that the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. If the beast and the ten horns destroy the harlot in verse 16, then the woman is not going to be ruling over those same kings in verse 18. This means that the harlot in verse 15 and the woman in verse 18 are both the great harlot from verse 1 while the harlot in verse 16 is someone or something else. It took me a long time to realize the distinction between the harlots in verses 15 and 16, but once I saw that, I was finally able to understand the passage. The harlot in verse 16 is Israel. God considers her a harlot because she has worshiped false Gods. She is hated by all her neighbors who in the tribulation period will bring her to ruin. The great harlot is the woman sitting on the beast and this is Satan who rules over the kings of the earth. I do agree that Satan is very crafty and that both the RCC and Islam are false religions. I have already mentioned several others that are also false and the list has no end. In fact, I am confident that some of the beliefs that I have about God are incorrect. This to me highlights just how great and awesome our God is. Nobody, no human mind and no group of human minds could ever fully comprehend the infinite nature of God. I an just thankful for the little bit that God has revealed to me and I pray that I am able to see through the lies that the enemy continually bombards me with in an attempt to make me question my faith and who God is. If I am interpreting your last statement correctly, I also believe that the antichrist will manifest himself as a Gentile king and that there will be a religious beast that supports him. However, I do not believe that the religious beast will be a Jewish High Priest. All of the beasts in Bible prophecy are groups of people, so I believe that a religious beast would follow this pattern. I also believe that this religious beast is the second beast of Revelation chapter 13 and the two horns are the RCC and Islam. As a result, I consistently pray that God will open the eyes of anyone who worships the queen of heaven and they will understand exactly who it is that they are worshiping.

@Revelation Man, I agree that Daniel 7 says that he arises out of the fourth beast in Dan 7:24. However in the Roman Empire, we never see a little king rising up and putting down three other kings. This means that this must happen in the future. I know that we disagree on the following, but I believe that the Roman Empire disappeared in 1453 with the fall of Constantinople, and the beginning of the seventh empire with the Ottomans. Because the fourth beast is described as different from the others, I interpret this to mean that the fourth beast is not just the Roman Empire, but a conglomeration of the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the empire of the antichrist. Note that this would move the focus of the last days from Europe to the Middle East and the Holy Land, the land area that I believe God is most concerned about. This also means that the prophecy in Micah chapter 5 saying that the antichrist will come from Assyria can be true and the antichrist does not have to come from Greece or anywhere in the EU. I agree that the antichrist will be a man (possessed by Satan), but he still needs to rule something. I know that what I am saying is controversial and most people have never heard anything similar to it, but let me explain my reasoning. Please let me know if there is anything I say that you disagree with. Assumptions: Old Testament prophecy is concerned about the Jewish people and the land of promise, what we today call the Holy Land. New Testament prophecy extends beyond the Jewish people and includes the Church, the set of true believers in Christ. The seven empires mentioned in Bible prophecy form a sequence of empires where each empire conquered the preceding one. The seven empires mentioned in Bible prophecy must control the Holy Land. Facts The Ottoman Empire existed during the Jewish dispersion. The Roman Empire split into two and the Byzantine Empire remained in control of the Holy Land The Ottoman Empire conquered the Byzantine Empire in 1453 when they sacked Constantinople. The Ottoman Empire ended after WW1 and the allies created the countries (that for the most part) that exist today. Conclusion The Ottoman Empire will not be directly pictured in Old Testament prophecy because it did not interact with the Jewish nation. The Ottoman Empire could be pictured in New Testament prophecy because it does interact with the Church and the Holy Land. To hide the Ottoman Empire in the Old Testament, it was rolled into the beast that represented the Roman Empire and that is why the beast was different from the other beasts Daniel saw. The Ottoman Empire is the seventh and last head of the beast that John saw. The Ottoman Empire received the mortal wound and was not replaced by another empire. This is the reasoning that I used to conclude that the seventh head of the beast is the Ottoman Empire. To me it makes more sense that the seventh empire is the Ottoman Empire that will be reborn after 100 years as an amalgamation of ten Muslim countries that will make war with Israel than there being a gap of 500 years after the Byzantine Empire fell and then the rebirth of a Roman Empire based in Europe far away from where the empire lived will arise to attack Israel. I do agree that there is some antisemitism in Europe, but it pales in comparison with what exists in the Muslim states.

I do apologize, but I am still confused. If the KOTS and KOTN are based on the four kingdoms that Alexander's empire split into, then wouldn't KOTS be from the land that Ptolemy took in Egypt and the Sinai peninsula while the KOTN would be from the land that Lysimachus took that is modern day Romania, Bulgaria and western Turkey? In this case wouldn't Turkey still be part of the KOTN? I agree with everything you said here. The seven heads represent seven different kingdoms or empires on the earth. The overall scarlet beast with the seven heads is different from each of the individual heads. I really am trying to understand what you are saying here, but am still confused. Per this paragraph and your initial post, the seven heads of the beast are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and then the kingdom of the antichrist which will look a lot like the Roman Empire. This is where I get confused. Each of the first six empires looked different. They were represented by different beasts in Daniel's visions and different metals in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. If the seventh head is the resurrection of the Roman Empire, this means that the Roman Empire or the sixth head of the beast is the head that received the fatal wound which was then healed. I still do not understand why the rebirth of the Roman Empire would be the seventh head rather than the healing of the sixth head that received the fatal wound. I thought that since there are seven heads, there should be seven empires that control the Holy Land, each one conquering the previous one and the seventh empire should be the one that received a fatal wound that was healed. This healing of the seventh head would be the rebirth of the empire that looks a lot like the seventh head. With regard to Apollyon, I agree that he is "the power behind the throne", represented by the overall beast which will be the resurrected empire. i just don't understand how this could be the Roman Empire because they were the sixth empire and there was still one more empire that was required after Rome was defeated.

@Revelation Man, I am hoping that you can explain a couple of points that confused me in your post. The first is why you said that Turkey would be the king of the South. I thought that Bible prophecy was centered on the Holy Land and since Turkey is north of Israel, I would think they would be the king of the North rather than the king of the South. The second is related to the explanation of the seven headed beast in Revelation chapter 17. There we are told that the seven heads are seven kingdoms, five of which had passed, one was and one was still to come. The one that was must have been the Roman Empire since they controlled the Holy Land at the time John had the vision. This means that the one that was to come must be an empire that was not the Roman Empire. Why would the empire of the Antichrist be the resurrection of the sixth head of the beast rather than the resurrection of the seventh head of the beast, the empire that came after the Roman Empire?

Thank you for the update. I am still learning my way around and figured that this was just a link to an external site. I will remember for next time.

Suppose that you are correct and heads 3,4, 5 and 6 represent the four divisions of Alexander the Great's empire, then wouldn't we also need to have two heads for the two divisions of the Roman Empire? In this case we are up to eight heads and we still have not gotten to the empire that we are told will come after the Roman Empire in Revelation chapter 17 so we are now up to nine heads, not seven. It seems like we have way to many heads if Alexander's empire takes up four of them. Can you clarify what I am missing? Also, I have differentiated the great harlot in Rev 17:1 and 17:15 from the harlot in Rev 17:16. The great harlot in 17:1 and 17:15 has made the people drunk with her immorality (17:2), she sits on the seven hills indicating that she is in charge (17:9). In Rev 17:18, we are told that the woman (sitting on the beast) or the great harlot reigns over the kings of the earth. It is impossible to reconcile the descriptions of the great harlot throughout the chapter with what happens to the harlot in verse 16 unless the harlot is different from the great harlot. Revelation 17:17 - 18 make it clear that there are two harlots because after the ten horns eat the flesh of the harlot in verse 17, she cannot continue to reign over them in verse 18. Because of this, I believe the harlot in Rev 17:16 is the Jewish nation which has strayed from worshiping the true God in the past while the great harlot is Satan who rules over kings and kingdoms. The interpretation of these verses then is that Satan inspires the nations under his control to hate the Jews. I was really confused by your comment that the 10 horns are but the 7th head, meaning that the heads are indeed kingdoms that rule(s) over the beast. If I am a king and I give my kingdom to somebody or something else, then I stop reigning and the other person reigns over me. I am no longer in control. Also, can you clarify why the ten horns are the seventh head? The text seemed pretty clear that the heads were kingdoms or empires and that after the seventh head or empire was finished the resurrection of the empire system by the joining together of the ten kingdoms would become the eighth empire. I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying to understand how the four divisions of Alexander's empire each get their own head.

Has anyone else see the youTube video "Mark of the Beast = In The Name Of Allah in Revelation" posted February 2017 by Dr. Chuck Missler? I have found this interpretation to be very convincing. I never liked how the passage was translated to English. Assigning numerical values to letters and looking for patterns just seems to go against everything else the Bible teaches. The link to the video is:

I think that the most important thing to realize about Daniel's prophecies regarding the empires that would arise in his future (most of which is now in our past) is that the prophecy deals with the empires that will control the land that God promised Abraham he would give to the children of promise, namely the descendants of Jacob or the Jews. The reason why there is no Bible prophecy about Genghis Khan and the Mongol empire, the British empire, the Aztec or Inca Empires in the Americas, the Japanese empire or past Chinese empires is because they never controlled the Holy Land. These were all great empires in their own right but because they did not control that part of the world, the Bible does not talk about them. With that in mind, we also have to realize that each of Daniel's visions need to stand on their own. We can use Daniel chapter eight to understand more about Daniel chapter seven, but each vision gives the story of Daniel's future from a different perspective. Because of this, they will each have a different emphasis and they will show different numbers of beasts (kingdoms). For example, in Daniel chapter 7, there were four beasts (or kingdoms). These were the lion with eagles wings, the bear with three ribs in its mouth, the leopard with four birds wings and the beast with iron teeth. These were the Babylonian Empire, the Medes and Persians, the Greek empire under Alexander the Great that split into four pieces after his death and finally the Roman Empire. As each of these empires increased in power, they defeated the previous empire. Then in Daniel chapter 8, there were only two beasts, the ram with two horns, and the male goat with the prominent horn. The ram was the Medes and Persians and the goat was the Greeks. The fact that Daniel was not shown another beast does not mean that the Roman Empire never existed or that it did not conquer the Holy Land and much of the rest of the territory that was controlled by Alexander. Instead, we need to look at what happened to the goat and its horns. After the prominent horn breaks, four new horns come up. These are the four kingdoms that Alexander's empire was divided into. After this, a little horn grew very big in the direction of the south and the east (meaning it came from the north and west of the Holy Land). This part of the prophecy has two fulfillments. The first is when the Roman Empire that came from the west conquered the Holy Land and the second will come in our future when the Antichrist's empire coming from the north will conquer the Holy Land. Daniel vision in chapter seven is more explicit than his vision in chapter eight in the defining of the empires by using different beasts. However, they are both valid visions and correctly foretell future events (from Daniel's perspective). Based on what we see in chapter seven, we can better interpret chapter eight where we see the goat representing three different empires. The Greek, Roman and Antichrist's empires are all brought together in this single beast. With that understanding, we can then go back to chapter seven and where we see that Daniel tells us that the fourth beast with iron teeth was different from the previous three empires. This tells us that the fourth beast represents not only the Roman Empire, but also the Antichrist's Empire which will devour and crush its enemies. With this interpretation of Daniel, knowing that one beast can represent more than one empire, and that Bible prophecy is concerned about the Holy Land, we can now combine world history with the visions John received in Revelation. In Revelation chapter 13, John sees a beast come out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns. This one beast has attributes of a leopard, bear and lion. Animals that we have seen represent empires in Daniel's visions. This vision is explicitly combining all seven of the empires into a single beast. Then in Revelation chapter 17, John is given another vision of the beast with seven heads and ten horns and an angel interprets the vision for us. Revelation 17:9 - 11 tells us that the seven heads are seven kingdoms or empires and that five of the empires (when John received the vision) have fallen, one was and the last one was still to come. Combining this with Daniels vision, we know that four of the empires were the Medes and Persians, Babylon, Greece and Rome. Rome was the empire that existed when John received his vision, so the other empires are three of the five empires that had already fallen. We also saw that each empire in Daniel conquered the previous empire, so in order to find the other two empires, we need to first figure out which empire that controlled the Holy Land was conquered by Babylon. The answer to this is the Assyrian Empire, so that must have been the second head of the seven headed beast. To find the first head, we repeat the question asking which empire that controlled the Holy Land was defeated by the Assyrians and we know that this was the Egyptian Empire. This gives us the first six heads of the seven headed beast as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medea and Persia, Greece and Rome. In order to find the last head of the seven headed beast, we now need to ask ourselves which empire controlled the Holy Land and defeated the portion of the Roman Empire that also controlled the Holy Land. The answer to this is the Ottoman Empire which defeated the Eastern Roman Empire (or the Byzantine Empire) when it sacked Constantinople in 1453. In Revelation 17:11 we are then told that "the beast that was and is not is even the eighth and is one of the seven". This takes the focus off of the seven individual heads that we have identified and onto the overall beast. This is telling us that in our future, we will see the beast, the "empire system" resurrected and a new empire will arise from the ashes of the seven empires that went before it. And in Revelation 17:12 we see that the ten horns are ten kings whose kingdoms did not exist when John had his vision, but will come into existence a short time before Jesus returns and these ten kings will join together in order to rebirth an empire that will last until Jesus returns to defeat them. The book of Daniel has one more prophecy about the future empires with Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel chapter two. Since all prophecy has to agree, this means that Daniels visions in chapters seven and eight must also agree with Nebuchadnezzar's dream. That dream gave us five empires; the head of gold (1), chest and arms of silver (2), belly and thighs of brass (3), legs of iron (4) and feet an iron clay mixture (5). As we saw with the visions in Daniel chapters seven and eight, the beasts that are used to describe the empires can vary between visions, and the proper interpretation of the visions will reconcile the apparent contradictions. We see the same thing here with the five metals indicating five future empires not contradicting the four empires that were shown in Daniel chapter seven. Starting in Daniel 2:38, we are given the interpretation of the dream and learn that the Babylonian Empire is the head of gold. In order to be consistent with Daniel's and John's visions, this means that the Medes and Persians were the chest and arms of silver, The Greeks were the belly and thighs of brass and Rome was the legs of iron. This also means that the iron-clay mixture must represent the Ottoman Empire as well as the Antichrist's empire which is still to come. in this way, the ten toes on Nebuchadnezzar's statue are equated with the ten crowns on the beast.