endure4salvation

Yet again, you have failed to show me a verse that says baptism is a work. And yet again, you have failed to take every thing in the NT BEFORE you formed the correct Biblical doctrine for salvation!

So you are saying that you can't come up with a verse that says baptism is a work either? No? OK! The problem with Christianity today is the unwillingness of those who profess to follow Christ to search out all the verses that deal with salvation before coming up with the correct Biblical doctrine. Is this or is this NOT a direct commandment of Jesus?

I meant to include this in the above post. Baptism in the first century was done by the person being baptized. In essence, you dunked yourself. People like John the Baptist, merely looked on as a witness. So, when the Scriptures were written is was done by you and not to you by someone else. We do it differently today. Even if I take your argument as true though, Paul told the Galatian that one was not saved by works, and he was speaking about circumcision. Paul considered circumcision a work, and yet it is something that is done to you by someone else. So either way, your contention fails. Baptism is work whether it is done by you, or to you. In other words, no you can't provide me with Scriptural references that baptism is a work. Thank you anyway.

Your statements are a complete and total misrepresentation of what I am attempting to show you. How many times do I need to post the same quotes that state that only those who obey God's commands are going to heaven?

So then, how do you explain Acts chapter 10 when those at Cornelious' house were saved and recieved the Spirit before they were baptized? There are 48 verses in Acts 10, please show me a verse that specifically states that such were saved. Many people had the Holy Spirit in the OT and yet were unsaved...Pharoh in Egypt, King Saul had Him until He left and a tormenting spirit came in its place.... This was a direct revelation from God via an angel, who are we to judge God and what He does? Baptism is a DIRECT COMMAND from Jesus and He stated that nobody is going to heaven UNLESS they OBEY HIS COMMANDS.

I would be interested as to see how baptism is a work. Can you provide a Scripture verse that says so? I say that baptism cannot be a work because it requires someone else to do it for you. (edited to include the below section) Please remember that Jesus spent 3 long years with his apostles and disciples. He instructed them day in and day out. The very last thing that Jesus ever said to these men was the Great Commission. What did this include?

I would like for someone to show me how we can disobey a direct commandment from Jesus Christ and still enter heaven, in light of these verses that clearly prove otherwise. Baptism is a COMMAND from Jesus Christ, as clearly shown:

Yahweh created time, so all He has to do is exist outside of it (like a computer game programmer exists outside of his video game) and doesn't need a beginning. There are so many things that are impossible to understand and we just have to accept those things by faith.

Just wanted to make sure that this was noticed....

I just want to say....stay away from emotional or physical bonds with such a person. The Bible says, "Do not be unequally yoked (joined) together with unbelievers." There should be NO union between a Christian (the temple of Yehwah) and a non-believer (who belongs to Satan). Pray for the salvation of this person and show the love of Christ to her....oh, and keep praying!

Endure, I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Oh, boy! This thread was not meant to be what it is turning in to be. Baptism is a direct commandment of Jesus that all of his disciples must be baptized. If you want to discuss this, then we should start a new thread that deals with it--not overtake someone elses thread.

Hey M. Yes you are right. Just click on one of the below links: hello hi Pretty amazing stuff, huh?

The major problem with Christian doctrine today is the unwillingness to take off the theologically biased glasses of denominationalism and read the entire NT and take each verse that deals with salvation and form doctrine from them. People take a few verses that deal with faith (or whatever) and exalt them over all others and claim that anything that doesn't agree fully with their ideas are heresy. Romans 10:17 tells us that hearing the Gospel is required for salvation. John 3:16 tells us that only belief (faith) is required for salvation. James 2 teaches that it takes more then just belief--it takes good works as well. Luke 13:3 teaches that repentance is required for salvation. Colossians 1:21-23 tells us that endurance is required for salvation. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:12 and others tell us that baptism is required for salvation. See what happens when we take all verses that deal with salvation and then form our doctrine?

Please be aware that I only found this site by doing a search for dinosaurs and the Bible. I never said that I agree with all parts of the site--I don't. But I am curious to see why you make this statement: Can you show me where, because I don't quote websites at all from my recollection. And for the record, my favorite preacher is a Pentecostal and my favorite church is the one that my friend plays for--yes the same church... http://www.lifepointministries.com/ Here is my friends band: http://www.ironforclay.com/main.html He is the old dude with the glasses. He is one of my great friends and I love him dearly.

Personally, I can see how these things happen on boards by professing Christians. It tends to be along the lines of people get so strong in what they believe that they feel like they need to convince others that their position is the correct one, even if it means misplaced zeal. Take the KJV Only debate for example. Those who hold to the KJV Only position, tend to think that the KJV is preserved by God and all other English translations are corrupt (some even telling us that all others are inspired by Satan) and need to be burned. If one attempts to refute KJV Only literature, they are blasted as "God haters" who "hate the Bible" and are unsaved and all sorts of other names and titles. It is sad to see such things. If one desires to see what I am talking about, go get some of Ruckman or Riplingers books. They have such a zeal for the cause, having assumed that the KJV is God's Word and all others are corrupt, that they go as far as exhibiting non-Christian behavior thinking that they are doing God's work--defending His Word. Of course not all KJV Onlyites are such, but there are a few and they seem to get all the 'press'.

I see your point about not thread-jacking... I won't do it except to say that obedience is required and it is a commandment...that is my point. Now then.... The book of Acts is a recording of the Church origin and we should find a lot of great information about baptism in it. Acts 2:41 mentiones at least 3,000 people being baptized and doesn't say if in the 3 Names or just One Name. All the other places would take a long time to research, so I would suggest reading it for ones self to determine what it says. I don't know...I was baptized in all Three, but don't know if it would be a problem just in Jesus' name.

Hey Endure, I think we all agree on this. I hope you share with us what God shows you in your study. Hi Kevin! I think you must have misunderstood me. I feel that obedience to Christ's commands is necissary for salvation (as He clearly taught), and baptism is a direct commandment of Christ (the great commission), so baptism is required for salvation. I don't know about the 2nd part of your question: I have never considered the question. All I know is what I read in the Bible and if it says do one thing, just do it! If the clear teaching handed down by the apostles is recorded, then it will suffice.

Endure: How do you find the rest of the website? It looks like a goldmine, but I wonder if you agree with all the positions. (I have yet to explore it all) Well, it is a Christian website, not a Baptist, Catholic, Episcapailian, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc... It is a CHRISTIAN ONLY website, not affiliated with any denomination. They are against all of Calvin's teachings, so they also deny Eternal Security as well. The main site is: bible.ca They have a WHOLE lot of stuff on there--you probably could never finish reading all the stuff. I have enjoyed this site a whole lot--let me know what you think.

The verses used to 'prove' limited atonement include: his sheep (John 10:11); his friends (John 15:13); "many" (Heb. 9:2)--'his' being Jesus of course! This of course denies clear verses that say that God died for "the whole world" (John 3:16) and wants "all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3).

Baptism is part of the Gospel--Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 and many others clearly state this. I am doing a study on this...

I found this to be interesting... Click here

S2B, the more I think about it, it would take me hours to fully explain what I am trying to say, when this website explains it so much better than I could. Enjoy and let me know what you think or if you have questions. God bless you!

duuuhhhhh??? i must be real dumb but you totally lost me on this one Bro. could yuse PLEASE splain this "tulip" "T" stands fer total depravity duhhhhh???? thank yuse---Bro-----------totally lost{bout this tulip thang}----------Gary-- I would be happy to. I will start a new thread, OK?

I don't read many books, I just read Sagz's posts so that I can prove him wrong on all counts. Nah, just kidding! I am reading a book about the KJV only position from the 'other side.' And I am reading through the Bible and am about to start Joshua (Leviticus and the like wasn't too bad...come on people!!! If God went to such great lengths to get us the Bible, we OUGHT to read it!!!)