tatwo

Based upon the basic but correct definition of “antichrist” from above...and from the Scripture...the entity plainly referred to as “antichrist”...and the subsequent...”antichrist reign” is already occurring since it’s Scripturally written beginning...in the first century. History plainly states that the “against Christ” or the “replacement Christ” which is the “false messiah”...which produces the “false bride – church”...is the “father” of the “state empowered agency” known as the “institutional church” which first acquired its “state sanctioned authority” during the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great. This is also where the “Babylonian harlot...mystery Babylon”...the “false bride of Christ”...arrives on the scene...or becomes “experiential”...for the lack of a better description. That however is a different discussion. I am in no way suggesting that “antichrist” will not reign in “our future” no...it most certainly is and will continue. As I said before...its influence and incarnation...will increase and likely become more “spiritually discernable” until its destruction...so I can agree with you to that point. The way you “wrote” it...“the anti-christ will reign from Bowl 1 and Trumpet 1”...makes is sound as though you are suggesting that its reign begins with “Bowl 1” and runs for 7 years...if I am interpreting you correctly? If I am not interpreting you as you intended here...I am sorry. If I am interpreting you correctly as you state it...the thing that I see challenging you is that you are not accounting for the increase in impact or effect or the character of the “reign of antichrist” since the first century. Which I must say...is the same thoughts and beliefs I see in so many “Christians” today. If that is indeed where you are at...that’s fine by me...as you wish...however I must say that a huge portion of your “understanding” of that which is “antichrist” is lacking simply due to ignorance. I have no intention of offending you Brother...this only an attempt to inform your understanding with a more complete revelation. Let me say this...placing things like the “antichrist...beast...harlot and lawless one” as only having a place and by extension...effect...in ones future...or present for that matter...is scripturally incomplete thereby leaving one in a supremely and spiritually dangerous “mindset” due to the strong potential for un-discernedable deception. Tatwo...:)

I enjoyed reading your post here @Whosoever... It is quite ambitious and somewhat assuming but the picture I get is mostly something I can understand...I have a couple of comments, thoughts or maybe questions. Anti-Christ – for simplicities sake...may I give a proper working definition of “antichrist?” Either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah. The term "antichristos" refers to an adversary of Christ, one who opposes or seeks to replace Christ. In the New Testament, it is used to describe both a “spirit of opposition to Christ” and specific individuals “who embody this opposition.” The term is often associated with false teachers and deceivers who deny the true nature of Yahshua Christ. By pure definition and according to John’s 1st epistle and the second chapter...“antichrist’s” reign and impact was evident at least in the first century. It has grown increasingly more influential since then as we can see...and it will continue to do so until it reaches its crescendo or summit. Tatwo...:)

Praise God brother Marathoner! Yup you are right...thank you for the reminder...He is my identity, my provision, my protection and my life! Tatwo...:)

Greetings Luther... Your comparison is "worthy"... I cannot remember the rules on posting links to "YouTube" here...however I think you should go to YouTube and type in..."How AI tells Israel who to bomb" it's a video by VOX. Israel’s incorporation of AI in warfare has been public for years through both defensive and offensive weapons. But in this war, AI is being deployed differently...It’s generating bombing targets. The promise of AI in a military context is to enhance strike precision and accuracy, but over the past few months Israeli outlets "+972 magazine" and "Local Call" have revealed that the multiple AI systems that help the IDF select targets in Gaza have contributed to the highest number of Palestinian civilian deaths and injuries ever. In this video, They interview multiple experts to understand how two specific systems, Gospel and Lavender, operate, and they explore the broader implications of current and future AI use in warfare. There is more to the story but I will leave it here for now...the commanders of the IDF...have an attitude of "death to the God forsaken Palestinians" and that is really all that matters to the Zionist's...who are doing God's work...as if He would need any assistance? Tatwo...:)

Well Bro...and I know you are very likely aware of this...but for encouragement I will post it anyways. Salvation and the subsequent calling, justification and glorification are an individual choice really...the Holy Spirit can be counted upon to do His part. The sanctifying effect of your faith and life upon hers may take years...and still...she needs to hear from the Lord directly as He calls her to Himself...it’s not for everyone...remember. I live in a place where tornados travel through near to us every year. Last year my brothers and I watched a tornado travel its path just 1.5 miles away from us. We get several severe thunder storms, several inches of rain, very high winds...50-75 mph and those devastating “straight line winds”...annually. So yes we have taken the time and effort and poured some resources into preparation for weather among other things...guns however...are not something we see as necessary preparations...if you were wondering...others must do as they feel lead. My identity is as a son of my Father, He is my source...He is my protection and provision when His purpose for which He put me here is complete...my flesh will be laid to rest...by Him...not until. Remember that, for the “obedient” sons of God they have a destiny “in Christ” that is unalterable really...meaning that their days have been set in eternity...nothing can change that...most either do not realize this have forgotten it, or don’t believe it. Which it is why it will be proven as essential...that one grow to a fully mature status in their calling...this is God’s will for each of His sons. As for those around us that are not in Christ or who may yet be spiritual infants or toddlers if you will...in the Body of Christ...they will need, benefit and appreciate the benefits of some...”ahead of time physical preparations”...to go along with the appropriate spiritual and prophetic preparations...to help them move through a crisis such as you are describing here...some will see God in it. That’s my perspective and I have seen these preps speak loudly to immature brothers and sisters as well as my unsaved friends over the years. And some of them have realized the godly wisdom in taking time to prepare for them or to simply assist them in preparations themselves. When love moves...it is always for the benefit of others Brother Dennis1209! Tatwo...:)

This response is greatly lacking in any meaningful connection to the context of the message I posted to you. Additionally, everything you posted in the immediately above paragraph is merely a reprocessing of an elementary understanding...of something you did not post as I see it...that almost all believers will agree with as an obvious reality...and in that...your statement is generally seen as correct...and I too agree with it. A couple of things...I am continuing to push back on your declaration...“No man knows the exact date/time and to try is essentially folly”...the initial question is...how would you or anyone we know...actually substantiate your bold all encompassing claim? I am curious...can you direct me to the origin or source of your conclusion...that I may understand by what authority you make this assertion? If your argument would be based upon the statement made by Yahshua in Matthew 24 where in His response to “the disciples” question as they met on the Mount of Olives... “And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”...which in part was... “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” Is no longer a solid foundation to build the argument of His ignorance upon...if indeed it ever was? This has not been valid since at least His resurrection and better yet...He revealed His plans for the end of the age and “His return” in detail as presented in Revelation. And specifically noted in chapter 1: 1-2...as that which His Father...“gave Him to show to His servants”...which was substantially...the unveiling of the fullness of Christ and the next age? He was from before the beginning and will be after the end...He is the Alpha and Omega...the beginning and the end. He knew the end from before the beginning. I am one of His servants...more succinctly I am His Son...the truth be told...I do not yet have the day and the hour of His return personally...and I have not had any contention towards you about that and have mentioned that a couple of times. However...I have gained a much greater understanding of Him...and His plans for His return and the end of the age...by diligently and intently seeking Him as a way of life the last 20+ years...as He has directed me Himself...and this among other things includes...the day and hour of His return. Something you reference as folly... No...I am not offended in any way Vine Abider...I am not motivated by anger or vengeance or anything of the sort. May it never be...I am doing that which I was divinely called and lovingly raised to do. It is for that reason that any of the incomplete thoughts and words that you or anyone has about this matter...only offers me a chance to discern who you are spiritually...take it or leave it...I live and work for an audience of one...if I can pleas Him...all will go well! I do take issue with your encouragement not to seek the Lord about the “No man knows the exact date/time and to try is essentially folly.” As I already stated...it is not an issue for me personally...however when an “overseer” makes the statement that...it is absurd to seek the Lord about the exacts and specifics of “His return” while also encouraging others to “watch for His return”...while additionally suggesting that this event may be fast approaching. [theme of the thread] I am more concerned about the unassuming or unsuspecting in the house that may encounter any confusion by reading your admonition. My point...not only does He...the Lord Yahshua...know the exact time and date of His return...He spoke this in parables back the in the first century. In these parables concerning “His return” and the “end of the age” He has “hidden this revelation within Himself.” He intentionally did these things...so that those who are reading Him and I will declare “seeking” Him...who are presently living in “the end of the age”...could actually and correctly interpret those parables in this hour. In this reality...I am talking about a parable or prophetic word that gets its interpretation “prior to the day of its fulfillment...as bread for His sons...for the day of its fulfillment”...in and of itself...this clearly denotes that those whom He has called are to be diligent in their pursuit of the specific circumstances and timing of His return and the end of the age? So, I will continue in my “folly” Brother...as He has richly and abundantly rewarded me for it...as He said He would. I have gotten and am yet getting that for which I seek...Him. My entire existence hinges upon the revelation of the powerful transcending scriptural and prophetic truths both fulfilled and unfulfilled...something He has given all of us...as the guiding light for my prophetic pathway...words such as... “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing” “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth” “He will disclose to you what is to come” “He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you” “I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you” Let me personalize this a bit...as a son of God Brother VA...I understand these words to be directed specifically and intentionally at me. This inspires me to throw off the distractions that are presented as the “cares of this world.” This to take up His desire for me which substantiates my drive or quest to receive and understand “all truth” which He emphatically said He will disclose to me and will guide me in ...and He says it three times in three contiguous verses. By now we should have a strong and mature grasp of these things via our obedience via our living sacrifice...this is shown to Him...by our tireless pursuit of Him in whom is “all truth.” I can say with a large degree of confidence that I have a much more detailed picture of the timing of “His return” and “the end of the age” than I have read from you...and I have read you much. The reason I say this is precisely because I engage in the folly of pursuing the Lord Yahshua for the exacts and specifics...which He said He would disclose...I fully intend on knowing in advance everything about His return. It is His big day and He wants me to be prepared for it...I do not intend on letting Him down! This offer is to all of His sons...you may do well to heed my admonition? Humbly, Tatwo...:)

With all due respect my Brother...unless I have missed something...it appears to me that you have missed me almost entirely....having said that...rest assured I take no offence either...you are doing your best. Tatwo...:)

Before I can accept this as best advice...having already understood that you have no idea when the Lord will return and that you feel it is folly for man to even consider it...perhaps you could describe in reasonable detail what it is that you mean to “Watch for His return?” I think that I can grasp the concept of “prayer”...and again...perhaps you can offer me some explanation as to what exactly you “mean” by “assemble with other believers”...as well? Tatwo...:)

It was a nice “conversation” to be sure...thanks to everyone. I have questions and a thoughts about the summary however. “No man knows the exact date/time” Is this in regards to the actual “end of the age”...or is it in reference to what many call the “secret pre-tribulation return of the Lord and the rapture of the church”...or is it possibly a reference to the “7th trumpet?” I am not assuming anything here at this point...only looking for clarification. In the mean time...as for “exact time” in terms of actual dates...such as Saturday April 26th, 2025...you may be right. You may want to ask yourself however...what Kingdom benefit there is...to anyone...to make a blanket statement that there is “no man who knows this and that it is folly to think or try know it?” Given that you are but one man...albeit filled with the Holy Spirit...that alone may not qualify you to speak this as prophetic Truth. For example Noah had a seven day advance warning that the doors of the Ark would be shut...Israel knew in the midst of the wrath of God against Egypt...that when things got to a certain point they would know when to head into Goshen and behind the blood...Simeon knew via the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. The “wise men” knew at His birth that He was the eternal God-King and would one day rule creation...even though He was but an infant who was worthy of their worship. This was just to name a few instances...there are more but the point is made. I have lightly affirmed that “men” indeed knew ahead of time when select prophetic events were going to transpire. All of these things were preceded with “signs or indications” if you will...from God. Whether they were seen in the heavens the Scriptures or spoken to His chosen men/women...He always alerted those who needed to know...as to what to do and when to do it...always in a direct choreography of God’s movement...the obedient followed suit. Why would anyone think of an event as monumental as His “return” would be treated any differently? “and to try is essentially folly”...really...do you mean that? Am I to understand that you are suggesting that the Lord Yahshua Christ...“will not”...communicate the specifics about His return...like He has so many other prophetic events...prior their actual occurrence? Since you are the one saying these things Vine Abider...you include yourself in this belief...and perhaps others...and the “church?” Rest assured...that it is ok by me if “you” choose to believe that...and I might agree that perhaps in relationship to “yourself” and the “church” you may be correct? At the same time this thought that the Lord Yahshua is keeping and or will keep that which we need from us...seems completely inconsistent with both the “character and nature” of the Lord Himself...and it is inconsistent with our Fathers “original intent” for establishing creation to begin with. I urge you Brother VA and others who believe that our Lord “will not” or “has not” shown us the timing of His unfulfilled plans...to rather consider that...pure “folly?” Do you realize who the “Body of Christ” is? Did you forget that His Head is the God and Father of creation...who knows the end of the matter from before its beginning? The plan of God including the events preceding His return...and including His return have been openly laid out the prophetic Scriptures. The Body of Christ...including His Head...is the eternal spiritual “Son of God”...who when fully matured [during the end of the age] as Paul teaches...will come forth as the fulfillment of the Father’s original intention for creation...”a man in the image and likeness of God.” It is in this light that you might consider re-reading Yahshua according to John...emphasis mine... “Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.” John 5:19-20 NASB And what would you Vine Abider have me do with this “Word” from the “Word” Himself? “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.” John 16:13-15 NASB I am fine with you and all who agree with you in this position Brother...really. However the first element of your summary looks suspiciously like patent “unbelief” to me. Just hear [read] me out...it may challenge you and your belief...but it will not in any way hurt you...but rather it may lift you up. Regardless...to make the statement...“No man knows the exact date/time and to try is essentially folly” and broadcast that to and upon all men? No Brother...that does not set right with me based upon what the Lord Himself said and who I know my Lord to be. I see the first part of “your consensus” as questionable if only when compared to what the prophet Amos recorded in his writings this...“Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.” When the “return” as most call it...of the Lord Yahshua Christ is near...the entirety of the Kingdom of God both the earthly...and the heavenly families of God will be fully appraised and prepared. For they will have finished their testimony as the “Son of God” upon the earth and the Spirit and the bride will say “Come” and the Lord says...“Yes, I am coming quickly.” This will be no secret...for all of creation will understand this. Thoughts questions? Tatwo...:)

Unfortunately you are probably right timf. Well said...I just added some detail and color. Tatwo...:)

I can see it timf...I can see it...”Christian practice” as you put it...and if I understand you here...has become a “state controlled, state empowered institution”...and has been increasingly so...since “Constantine” in the early 4th century AD really. The result of having become another “agency of the state”...or simply another branch of state run governance...this “woman” has forfeited the divine power once afforded her. Her source of authority and power for that matter...has gone from the Holy Spirit whom she disobeyed and rebelled against to the power of the kings of the earth who rule the “all the kingdoms of the world” AKA...the nations of the dragon’s kosmos. Yeh...what an interesting picture? Few have ever recognized this. Tatwo...:)

This...if true...and I would agree with you here @timf...is a powerful ideology. Most of the modern “institutional believers” are completely unaware of who and what this “long term satanic plan” has been and is producing. This is the hideous and evil spirit that produces the “religious enslavement to Babylon.” The “woman” as referenced in Scripture...has been and is producing the “false church...false religion...false messiah”...and...has been “profiting” to an unimaginably increasing magnitude for the last 1700 years in the context of “church and Christianity.” Can you see the “apostasy?” This “woman”...is drunk on the blood of the saints, meaning...that has she been and yet is...the primary opponent and enemy of the Kingdom of God on earth to date. And as such...Scripture describes her as...as having her cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication...and is referenced as “THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS “AND” OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” The “great whore” as the KJV so eloquently states it...that has become the "mother of the abominations of the earth" in now all dressed up to match the beasts appearance while sitting astride the dragon’s beast...as if to be directing it? Additionally...I can see a “sudden departure” from the faith that has gained momentum in just the last 20 years. Tatwo...:)

It's a good post...nice job...may I ask what your point is if...it would be anything beyond your post perhaps? For a child [Yahshua] will be born to us, a son [Yahshua] will be given to us; And the government will rest on His [Yahshua] shoulders; And His name [Yahshua] will be called Wonderful Counselor, [Yahshua] Mighty God, [Yahshua] Eternal Father, [Yahshua] Prince of Peace. [Yahshua] Isaiah 9:6 NASB He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (16) For by Him [Yahshua] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him [Yahshua] and for Him. [Yahshua] (17) He [Yahshua] is before all things, and in Him [Yahshua] all things hold together. (18) He [Yahshua] is also head of the body, the church; and He [Yahshua] is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself [Yahshua] will come to have first place in everything. (19) For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, [Yahshua] (20) and through Him [Yahshua] to reconcile all things to Himself, [Yahshua] having made peace through the blood of His [Yahshua] cross; through Him, [Yahshua] I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Colosians 1:15-20 NASB Tatwo...:)

That was fantastic...and amazing really. In time I want to have a discussion with you concerning your assessment of my writing and posting...AdHoc. You have hit on something there with your stated observation that I honestly had wondered about for sometime. Not that I had any idea of the specifics you laid out...but rather...let me say it like this in old diary farmer lingo..."you scratched my itch." As for your writing in that post...I am all good Brother your "way" in that scenario was intriguing and I can appreciate a bit of "swag" as they call it...it reveals character. That as you are well aware is challenging from a keyboard. I'll get back to you Again thank you AdHoc... Tatwo...:)

The king sits on a throne to rule his kingdom...the high priest administers the righteous ordinances of the present covenant...in our case the “New Covenant”...in the temple of God. When the one sitting on the throne is the “King of kings” and He is also the “High Priest” of the temple of God...a “double testimony” one might say...you have what is referred to as a “Royal Priest” and all as One Head and Body...we are the “Royal Priesthood.” There is an interesting reference to this very thing found in Zechariah 6 in reference to Joshua who is a type or shadow of Yahshua...“Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest”1...did you catch it? Now this “Royal Priesthood” can be described as “Christ – the Son of the living God” who incidentally...will be “testifying of Christ” on the earth at the end of the age. Very much like the Lord Yahshua “testified of His Father” the earth in the days of His flesh...He...this “One New Man”...the emergent Christ...the Son of God...will also bear witness to the Lord Yahshua Christ on the earth. He will be seen in creation as “the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature...”2 and this is in direct reference to our God and the Father of creation. Then it will be time for “Christ” the “Son of God” who will then bring in the prophetic fulfillment of the eschaton...exactly as planned from before the beginning. There is an exciting path for us to continue to travel in this...however this is where I will stop for now to be able to see where folks are at with this...maybe to receive clarity and revelation from others and perhaps answer question or two? 1. Zechariah 6:11 NASB “Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest.” 2. Hebrews 1:1-4 NASB “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, (2) in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. (3) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, (4) having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.” Tatwo...:)

Why am I pointing this out with such granularity? The Lord Himself is reported to have said this...“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,”1 It is when the Spirit of Truth...the Holy Spirit of Truth...comes to you...from the Father that He will “testify” meaning to “bear witness...give evidence of”...this is the revealing the living Word of God...the “Lord Yahshua Christ Himself”...to us to our spirits. When you receive the Holy Spirit of Truth you receive the “spiritual witness and evidence” of Him...which is to receive Him...in Spirit...into your human spirit! This is how you become a “child of God”...He is alive in you as Himself from that point on. Your first step of obedience is to complete the “New Birth” process of death, burial, and resurrection into a “new life” and somewhere in this process the Lord Yahshua Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and power. We are born into a Kingdom of love and power. Then as He nurtures this very intimate relationship, He loves you and teaches you His ways...as your Father. You then begin to grow and mature in His image to become like Him...and this will be according to the “good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”2 One needn’t be confused or lost in this because it is the grace of God that assures us of our place “in Christ”...and it is Him who raises us to live according to the Fathers will...just as He did. I am only trying to layout a foundation to build upon and that is...that when you receive the Holy Spirit indwelling your human spirit...it is in that moment that you become a “spiritual child – infant” of God the Father of creation. The Lord...as the Holy Spirit...from His residence within your human spirit then begins to “Father” your “soul”...which prior to the moment of your salvation...is not aware of the Spirit of God at all...you were in a fallen state and separated from God...remember? This is why at salvation you are “birthed forth” as a “child or infant spiritually”...your soul knows little to nothing about the Holy Spirit at that moment and time...only that “He is Father.” “Salvation” is the process by which you are saved from the kingdom of darkness and the jurisdiction of the dragon...where you once had your being...you were lost. Now...once you are in that relationship, Father to child...the Holy Spirit begins to increasingly reveal Himself to you over time. During this period of time...He also begins to reveal to you...what part of His Body you have been uniquely and divinely called to be. This is known as “redemption or being reconciled to God.” What the one who has been “saved” is to understand here is...that they are saved to be “redeemed or reconciled” to the Fathers foreknown and predestined desire...aka ones “calling.” Which desire is #1 to continually be formed to the image of Christ Yahshua [moving from child to mature adult son of God] and #2 to grow and mature spiritually into ones “predestined calling from God” so that one may understand what part of the “Body of Christ” they are...and this unto justification and then glorification.3 He is always there to love, guide and teach you along the pathway of your spiritual growth and maturity...ultimately to a “fully mature son status”4 in your calling...just as He did. Again this is in accordance with the...“good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” We must remember that if we do not wear our wedding garment...His glory...which is our growing obedience to His preordained will...one is in danger of becoming apathetic...“for many are called, but few are chosen.”5 This journey generally takes a lifetime but it is the grace of God that assures our living faith that this will come about. Paul reminds us...that we are all “sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”6 This also speaks of the Body of Christ...all the spiritual children and sons of God in one “invisible spiritual Body.” This Body has a Head and...This Man is known as “Christ”...and will one day soon become the revealed “Son of the living God”...as the original intent indicates. This is the ultimate fulfilling of God the Father of creation’s desire for creation...to produce “a Man in the image and likeness of Christ.”7 He will complete His desire which was in His mind prior to putting creation in place. He will use “creation” the “heavens and the earth” to produce “Christ – the Son of the living God.” Even creation understands this...as Paul suggests...“For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.”8 Yes...He...Christ the “Son of the Living God” will be revealed on the earth...and as He is...He will be about testifying of and revealing His Father to the world around Him. He will bring the standard of righteousness that belongs to the only “King of kings” along with the standard of holiness that is exemplified by the “High Priest” of the temple of God...and He will be brought to bear upon the darkness in creation...to complete the age. 1. John 15:26 NASB “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,” 2. Ephesians 2:10 NASB “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” 3. Romans 8:29-30 NASB “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” 4. Ephesians 4:14-16 NASB “As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; (15) but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, (16) from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.” 5. Matthew 22:11-14 NASB “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless. "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' "For many are called, but few are chosen.” 6. Galatians 3:26 NASB “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” 7. Genesis 1:26 NASB “Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 8. Romans 8:19 NASB “For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.” Tatwo...:)

If the “Spirit of God” was the Father of Yahshua as opposed to Adam...what was it that actually happened there at the Lord’s baptism in terms of the “Spirit of God descending and remaining upon Him?” I don’t know if I can explain this but here’s what I see...Yahshua had a Spirit and a soul and a body just like us. I think everyone can understand the similarities of the soul and body of the Lord and ours as elements primarily related to the fleshly existence of man. His Spirit though...is it the same as the spirit in man? Man is physically born with an unenlightened spirit and is dominated by the mind of a carnal soul...in other words the spiritually unjustified man...lives from the carnal mind of a darkened soul that is also separated from and ignorant of God...and indeed “enmity against God.” Was the Lord Yahshua born that way? No...He was born with an enlightened Spirit as I see it...His soul was typical of a human as we are told...He even mentioned it Himself in Gethsemane, and of course His body was like Adams...flesh. He was birthed forth of Mary and His human spirit was illuminated and alive and openly interacting with His Father from His youngest days...think Adam before the fall. We know His soul was tempted like everyone else’s...but without fail...why? Because our Lord did not live out of the darkened mind of a carnal soul...this is due to the difference of fathers...God verses Adam. In Adam we are all...“brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me”...as king David once lamented. Not so for the Lord...He did not inherit the sin of Adam and that means that His enlightened Spirit in direct communion with the Spirit of God would rule over His soul and always did...so He never lived by the darkness of a fallen and sinful soul...though He was tempted. So what happened at His baptism? Because His offering of a sinless life was accepted there in the Jordan that day with John...our Lord Yahshua received the approval and empowerment the “Spirit of God” Himself...as prophesied...to walk the earth as the Father of creation...in a human body. Yahshua grew up into the fullness of the Godhead in His human form...making Him unique among all His brothers and creation itself...He was the “first born” of many sons. This was always God the Fathers desire...to be among His creation so that humanity could experience Him...could touch Him...could interact with Him “Face to face” or “human to human” as it were. In regards to His Father...Yahshua had become the “the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.” What He was offering to His Spirit Father that day...is all that He had become through His 30ish years of earth bound existence as a human...at that very moment. What a scene? Yahshua comes out of the water in the Jordan as is...the “Son of God” and God the Father both confirmed that and then empowered His Son with His Holy Spirit. Yahshua...was...the first Son or man for that matter...of this type if you will...because of His obedient life which He lived as lead by His Spirit in direct communication with His Father. He was also the first one to have the “Spirit descending and remaining upon Him”1 which was the identifying characteristic that God had told John the Baptist to look for. Who are the others? Paul the apostle wrote...“The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God”2 that is when we cry “Abba Father”3 in this we are assured of our new status as a member of the “spiritual family of God.” This is not a “natural, fleshly human family”...this is the family of “the spirits of the righteous made perfect”4...no...the family connection is not “fleshly” it is “Spirit.” The only way to enter the family of God...the Kingdom of God...the temple of God...is via the “Holy Spirit.” This is what Paul meant when he said...“that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”5 It is also Paul who writes...“For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”6 this is an indication of spiritual growth and maturity...children grow up into mature sons. This is like what Isaiah said about the coming of the Lord...“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us”7 the “child” that was “born” became the “Son” that was later “given” as the Lamb of God...again a picture of growth and maturity...in ones calling. Why am I pointing this out with such granularity? 1. “upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' (34) "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.” 2. Romans 8:16 NASB “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,” 3. Rom 8:15 NASB “For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!” 4. Hebrews 12:22-24 NASB “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, (23) to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, (24) and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.” 5. 1st Corinthians 15:50 NASB “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” 6. Romans 8:14 NASB “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” 7. Isaiah 9:6 NASB “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” Tatwo...:)

What was His life actually like prior to His baptism? We don’t really have a lot of information about His growing up in Joseph and Mary’s home. We do have a couple of Scriptural references that give us an indication of how His life went however. Things like He “kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men”1 and He is “One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin”2...and finally as a maturing son we are told that “He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.”3 So...He lived like a man...a “sinless man”...Yahshua grew and grew in favor with God His Father. He was tempted in a manner that was typical to humanity. And in His suffering as a man...He learned to obey His Spirit Father...and at this point [baptism] He was recognized as perfect...by God His Father! Along with that He put on display a perfect example of how we are to become the mature adult Sons of God. There in the Jordan that day with John the Baptist...He is now going to offer Himself...to God and He’s asking John to officiate the process if you will. John did not know initially who Yahshua is...however after the baptism John saw the fulfilling of the prophecy that God had given him which was “He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.”4 So the “Spirit of God” came down upon the Lord Yahshua that day in the Jordan...and remained upon Him...as God had said to John. That’s what John saw...he probably also heard the voice of God the Father as well...saying..."This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” He goes into the water the “son of man” and He comes out of the water the “Son of God”...in other words His sacrificed life was accepted by His Father. Interestingly...John is told that Yahshua the Son of God is also the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit...which up that point...Yahshua the Son of God had not done. So...simply put it’s the Lord Yahshua who puts His Holy Spirit presence in us. 1. Luke 2:52 NASB “And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.” 2. Hebrews 4:15 NASB “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” 3. Hebrews 5:8 NASB “Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.” 4. John 1:33-34 NASB “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' (34) "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.” Tatwo...:)

Greetings to all...I have put together a "study" concerning "The Spirit of God & The Sons of God"...so lets dive in. It is always important to remember or understand that God...who from “before” the beginning...knows how this creation plays out unto its end...completely...”I am the Alpha and the Omega.”1 It is not the events of men or angels that determine the path which creation follows. Creation flows as it was intended by its creator our Lord Yahshua Christ...always remembering this guiding principal...“Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.” This cannot be changed in any way by anyone or anything in the heavens or on the earth. This Kingdom...His Kingdom...the Kingdom of God is the Kingdom that will see “no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom.” As the Kingdom of God is rolling out of heaven and advancing upon the earth...creation is being shaken. The shaking is evidence of the increase of the Kingdom of God as the coming forth in Christ...let me explain. The primary theme of all of scripture is seen as...God’s desire to bring forth from His creation as He told Moses..."Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness”2 on the 6th day of creation. It wasn’t Adam that He was referencing with this and we know that...yet Adam...had his part as the father of our humanity. What was in view...as it would seem...is primarily Yahshua Christ “the firstborn among many brethren.” 3 Yet He...the Man Christ Yahshua alone was not the ultimate fulfillment of God’s prophetic utterance...or was He? Many will say yes He was! Well...as Paul said...”He was the firstborn among many brothers” He is most importantly...the “only firstborn” among the sons of God...indicating His preeminence and that...there are more sons to come...let’s continue... He...Yahshua...was not the only “Son of God” in view on the 6th day. He was the “the only begotten from the Father”4...what does that even mean? Well it is not a difficult concept...it has to do with His Father...who is the eternal Spirit of God5...whereas...the rest of us since Adam...have a human father. It seems plain in Scripture that the Man Yahshua...the son of Mary....the son of man...was put to death that day in the Jordan. We get the picture that He is looking at John...who incidentally...is the son of a Jewish High priest by the name of Zacharias...and is presenting Himself to the son of the high priest as it were...so that he might prepare the Lamb of God for His sacrificial offering? Yahshua went into the water the “son of man”...the one and only spotless “human” Lamb of God...having sacrificed His entire life from early on unto an obedient and mature son...He was literally at that very moment there in the Jordan...offering the fruit of His entire life up to that moment...to His Father...for His approval...symbolic as it may be. 1. Revelation 1:8 NASB “I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” 2. Genesis 1:26 NASB “Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 3. Romans 8:29 NASB “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren” 4. John 1:14 NASB “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Matthew 3:16-17 NASB “After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, (17) and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” Tatwo...:)

You say “hybrid men”...what is it that you are seeing in this statement AdHoc? 10 billion in a mixture of humans and hybrid men? I have just never considered this great number of inhabitants. I am not rejecting this Bro...merely comprehending it for the first time...and the stench? Hopefully as the flood waters receded it formed a massive toilet bowl effect collecting all the dead in its flow and piling them up somewhere else? Ah yes...this 3.5 years, 42 months, twelve hundred and sixty days...certainly a fantastic period of time an extremely misunderstood time...however clarity is being revealed. Thank you brother... Tatwo...:)

True...true...the increase of mans folly in these last days will most assuredly give way to the unleashing of the full scope of the demonic hordes that will be sent forth as a final judgment upon a rebellious creation...most of which will take place on the earth. Yes and though it may be hard to believe...I have actually been given “some level or degree?” of vision and understanding of this...from the Holy Spirit...that are lifted out of the pages of Revelation and its attendant books. Though...whenever I have attempted to bring them forth they are immediately and patently rejected and I receive open rebuke...I am fine with this...but very careful about presenting what I have seen. Not out of fear or embarrassment...no...crass as this may sound...it is the warning...“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces”...that speaks to me here...this I have experienced personally. I agree with your assessment AdHoc...“heaven will hatch and execute a plan of devastation unmatched in universal history.” What actually comes forth in terms of the specific details of this “plan of devastation”...and how...again as difficult as this may be to receive...is yet largely hidden behind the veil but...there are those “in Christ” who are being granted a “look” if you will...they are the “messengers.” These “messengers” are not some highly exulted human...no. They are the servants of Christ and slaves to His Body...they are a grace from God to His family...they simply work and live as the workmanship of God...according to their call, obeying His will for them...always yielding to the presence of the Royal Priest. To the “messengers” it is granted to “deconstruct” that which has been hidden in God for long ages past. I am talking about “bread and meat” for the specific day...this is as the will of God rolls out of the heavens...think...“Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven”...and into the...earth which is how our God and Father directs the affairs of His creation...these are the folks who declare...”this is that.” I understand how foreign this may or may not sound to your ears...if you have the Holy Spirit...trust in Him for your understanding of anything I post...and go with that. But remember...the Holy Spirit of Truth is still revealing the divine and spiritual plans for His creation...to fulfill His original intents for creation itself...and it comes out of the Scripture as well. Contrary to those who feel that “all as been revealed”...not all has been revealed...revelation from the Lord Yahshua comes forth as it is planned from before the foundation of the world...for the specific purposes He has set...and not until. There is so much more to experience and learn concerning our Lord and Savior Yahshua Christ...and He is excited to reveal Himself but...He will only do so as the Body is of sufficient maturity to support increased revelation concerning Himself. He is of course a loving Father and He loves His Son. Tatwo...:)

I receive your gracious affirmation with joy and humility Brother...especially in the light that I...and many others around here...who are constantly amazed at your ability to bring difficult matters into an organized and orderly presentation...of what you understand so that we can understand it as well. Thank you for the honor that you have allowed me here. Tatwo...:)

Yes...we must consider the value of the words we speak and write in the light of whom we serve who is likely speaking through our lives...and who it is that we are addressing. I have taught many in the temple of God these things over the years...this can be difficult to learn and may take years and exceptional experiences...but...you are right Brother and it is wisdom. This is humbling Marathoner...these words are “living water” to my soul...thank you for taking the time to express this truth to me personally. It is a welcomed affirmation from my Brother who has learned to speak the heavenly language. We are loving one another as we have been loved by our awesome Lord Yahshua! I feel honored by you and your words here Marathoner...thank you and may “all the glory” go to the King of kings who is “worthy” beyond measure! We are living in a “time” where...as the apostasy culls the flock if you will...that we can also see the Lord drawing together...His own. This is an invisible “Spirit” drawing of course...and it has no temporal boundaries...this is life in Christ the son of the living God...on earth. This is eternal life being put on display at the very least in the temple of God...and perhaps there are those who do not comprehend “eternal life” just yet that may be viewing these posts. Eternal life has no expiration date...it existed before creation and it will exist after creation. Perhaps we can have a more detailed conversation about eternal life soon? Thank you again my Brother for your life...you are enriching the Body of Christ with your life's awesome testimony! Our Father is pleased with the precious yet diligent and faith filled way that you have responded to this life's nearly unimaginable circumstances...it is in this that we can see the glory that He has put upon you...you are eternally loved! We are not done...for it is "us" who will bring forth the increasing appearing of the glorious Lord Yahshua Christ Himself...in our acceptable living sacrifices as we become the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature! Tatwo...:)

Just a last piece... Most clearly see the eschaton completely differently than I have presented in this series of posted responses...and are prepared to contend for it...fine. However if they do not see the tribulation that is engulfing them today...and the increase tomorrow...and they do not know exactly what their Lord and Savior is explicitly telling each one of them...what is their tomorrow going to be like? The Scripture does emphatically tell us. I am attempting to make known to whosoever will...the pleasure of the Fathers yearning and His desire for each one of you...that He has called and graced to be His inheritance. The Sons of God...”Christ”...are being prepared and trained to go into what most call the tribulation...the great tribulation...the wrath of God and whatever...as “Christ the Son of the living God” He is eternal. That which can be shaken is anything that was created...seems to me that there would be a direct connection between that which cannot be shaken...and the eternal reality that is doing the shaking...hope I didn’t lose anyone there? Moving on... God does not define death like the carnal, religious and immature do...I mean why would God have to remove His temple from the earth so that He won’t have to suffer...due to the shaking that He Himself is administering to His creation? That which cannot be shaken...is...the reality that is doing the shaking...right? That is why those who often talk about things like...“not having to go through the tribulation” and “not having to experience the wrath of God” by being taken off the earth...are being so presumptuous. The Son of God...Christ...is strengthened in tribulation and God is glorified in that...even unto the death of the flesh. Similarly how could the Body in which the actual presence of the Spirit of the eternal God dwells...in any way ever suffer the “wrath of God” that He is pouring out upon His creation? That institutional thinking is inspired by darkness and believed by the unsuspecting. Tatwo...:)

I am not totally sure what you mean by “border, edge, and levy” Vine. From where I am seated...in the heavenlies upon the throne of God with the Living God in Christ and all my brothers and sisters...who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ...I can see the dragon’s incremental rollout of tribulation upon the earth is gaining momentum. The open judgment of creation is in process. Perhaps we might be closer to the beginning of the tribulation than to the end...perhaps? Let me ask...have you experienced the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God? Well I can attest...we are being prepared by our Lord as we speak....by Him to be like Him. We each have our own unique and divine purpose that God chose for us before creation was in existence. We are being built into One New Man...One in Spirit with God almighty...it’s a holy nation...a chosen race...a Royal Priesthood and a people for God’s own possession...a man in the image and likeness of God Himself...a spiritual man...His fully mature Spirit Son...the mature Christ...Head and Body. This one new man will be seen as the radiance of his Father’s glory and the exact representation of his Father’s nature. In other words...all the “sons of God” come together in “Christ” Vine Abider. We will make the living and invisible God and Father of creation...available as incarnate human flesh as many of us that are alive on the earth...just like the First and only begotten Son of God did in His flesh. God wants to be experienced by humanity...He loves them...which is why He clothed Himself in flesh to begin with. He’s doing this same thing again except this time it will be the entirety of His people from every tribe, tongue, and nation...under our glorious Head. He is being lovingly and skillfully assembled by the Holy Spirit exactly to the Lord Yahshua’s desires...and will soon quench the anxious longing of creation with His appearance. He...who is eternal...does not have to leave earth to go to heaven...eternity exists outside of the created heavens. In the beginning God...existing prior to creation and after...and wherever He is...the Throne of God abides. There is nothing in creation that can ultimately threaten His rule...and after He has completed His testimony on this earth...He will in fact...without doubt...have established the Rule of the Lord Yahshua Christ as the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Tatwo...:)