mrs

Res, as my comments were not addressed to you or your previous arguments, I don't plan on engaging you in debate. Thanks though.

If some one were to say that saying God is actually 3 different people or persons is heresy. Would that make it hersy? no. And you opinion on what is or is not heresy is of no consequence either. This is not how a person in a debate answers the refutations of their opponent. You need to learn how to hold proper debates.

I agree, Islam is of the devil. Well written, Botz.

Islam is such an awful religion. It has no grace, no mercy, no love. In fact their motto is, "Love those who love allah, and hate those who hate allah." Btw you and I are kuffar, the despised, the evil, those who are so wicked they can "see it in our face'. Watch out, you have a red bull's eye on your back too.

Undercover in British Mosques Very interesting series of documentaries on the true teachings of Islam.

Excuse me but the only reason it didnt have a 25 ft high surge was because Ike turned at the last minute and its' force was diminished. We should thank God for His mercy instead of condemning those who are trying to save lives. And might I point out no one has been able to determine the body count yet of those who would not leave.

Well said! This is not well said, it is completely false, you can live a very christian life believing in Jesus and accepting Him not only as your Savior but Lord as well, and never agree with the doctrine of the trinity. Accepting any certain doctrine does not make you a christian or non christian. As long as we know who Jesus is to us, and that is Lord, and Savior. Oneness belief is heresy. It is an utter lie that the only thing a Christian does is believe in Jesus. You must believe on Him to save you from your sins that is true. But a Christian is one who is in fellowship with God, learns who He is, grows in a relationship with Him, and is transformed into the likeness of His Son. Which leads to my previous post...a Christian who is taught of God will believe the correct things about Him, which are clearly laid out in Scripture. It is only recently on our continent that people are accepting the idea that one can be a Christian and deny the Trinity. If you do not believe in the God of the Bible you are not saved - and the god of oneness is not the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief... BUT. You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity. You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves etc... The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

I do not remember your post, if you are referring to the God hates people post you made. I am better off ignoring such ridiculous claims, than getting banned for telling you what I really think of you, your posts, and beliefs. As I have repeatedly pointed out, that is YOUR strawman, twisted, erroneous statement of what I actually outlined in that post. And yet again you resort to - this ? Instead of actually reading what I said and understanding what it says. Your beliefs are too far out in left field for me to even discuss. This is nonsense. Any reasonable person reading my post would see that it is mainstream orthodox belief based on the Scriptures I provided. Namely, that God has a distinctive love for the Christian that is different from the love for the lost. Yet AGAIN you ignore everything and hold fast to your argument based on something I did not even say!

I do not remember your post, if you are referring to the God hates people post you made. I am better off ignoring such ridiculous claims, than getting banned for telling you what I really think of you, your posts, and beliefs. As I have repeatedly pointed out, that is YOUR strawman, twisted, erroneous statement of what I actually outlined in that post. And yet again you resort to - this ? Instead of actually reading what I said and understanding what it says.

Notes again that she never got a true response to her refutations to ezekiel's posts.

Ezek AGAIN strawmen arguments. Nowhere did either of us say God does not love the lost. Yet you ignored the entire tone of our posts and argued against things we did not even say. That is called a strawman argument, a weak and cheap form of arguing. If you believe you are right, respond to what we actually say, not what you want to convince people we said. I gave you strong evidence that the love God has for Christians is unique and distinct from that for the lost, yet you gloss over it and claim I teach God does not love the lost. Bad debate skills, very bad indeed. If this was a true debate you wouldn't be allowed to stay because you are following neither etiquette or the rules. Your logic is also wrong. Love DOES hate. If you love babies you hate abortion. If you love good you hate evil. Period. I remember again why I said i would not discuss things with you - because you do NOT discuss. You say things and when you are refuted you just make strawmen arguments and avoid the real statements.

Why not? They do it today in droves. Now who is silly? 1. Considering that to be a Christian in Paul's time meant literally living life on the edge, it would tend to a more sincere and dedicated faith than that of todays's "American Christian" 2. You really believe a true genuine dedicated Christian would want to and even willingly marry a lost person? I don't think so. You are imposing on the Christians of the apostle's day, the characteristics of western "Christianity".

strawman argument yet again. Address the post not a twisted meaning of it.

I know I said I was staying out of this thread but I can not remain quiet about such shocking statements as these. 1 Where exactly did you ever get such an idea as this? The Bible is clear on the fact the Christian is loved with a special love that the world knows not of. Let me name just a few examples that come to mind: A. Christians are the Bride of Christ A man loves his bride with a different love than he has for any other woman. She is his alone, and he regards her tenderly and cherishes her as special and adored. This is based on the Biblical teaching that we are the Bride of Christ and he regards us differently than the world. Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body. Note the passage addresses Christ's love for the church, not the world. B. Christians are Beloved This corresponds to point A, and shows the distinct love God has for the Christian. I challenge you, take even Acts to Revelation and note just how many times a Christian is called beloved. E-sword found 58 hits and every one is addressed to a Christian. A google search of Webster's 1913 dictionary turned up the following definition of beloved: Be`loved

I agree, I have had people tell me I study the word too much, that I should just let the "Spirit guide me" and not get so deep in the study. Wow.

Floating you did not respond to my other post. And how dare you say that God will not override the will of his creatures? What nonsense is this anyway? You seriously think that the sovereign God of the univese bows to the prideful , willful choices of His own creatures?? What the Bible does say is that God commands the willful to repent, and warns of the consequences if they do not. Then He draws His elect and they come to Christ and He raises them up at the last day.(John 6) Unquestionably the Word says that all men love darkness rather than light and will not draw near to God unless He changes their heart i.e. salvation. It is extremely offensive to me that mere humans say their will can override that of God's. I gave you a list of things God did which overrode the original decisions of those humans and you didn't have much of a response did you? I am done with this thread.

Your reasoning was hard to follow. You are talking about two opposing things: a. the rejecting of the command to repent by the world b. the supposed falling away of a Christian As they are totally different you cannot use the argument that you have just made. Why? a.God is absolutely just and it is perfectly in line with His character to punish someone for their sin, and their judgment i.e. eternity in hell is just b. If you truly believe that God saves someone and promises to them eternal life, tells them that they are sealed - read that again sealed - with the Holy Spirit, and that this was ordained from the foundation of the earth, then you would believe that it is an attack on God's character to say that person could still go to hell. What nonsense is this?

God respects our decisions???? Chapter and verse plz. Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? I think those verses are rather clear that God tells us, this is how it is. Period. The Word is clear: abandon the faith, you lose. Titus 3:11 For people like that have turned away from the truth, and their own sins condemn them. 2 Peter 1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away. Luke 8:13 The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don

Kross did a great job explaining what it actually means IN context. I agree with you completely, kross. Ezek your interpretation of kross's belief is totally incorrect. What he was expounding on is the biblical teaching of election. If you would carefully study the following passage you would see how very clear Jesus is in his teaching on election: Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

God respects our decisions???? Chapter and verse plz. Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? I think those verses are rather clear that God tells us, this is how it is. Period. Floating??

Yes thats true. Even though they live forever it is in the lake of fire.

The problem is you are assuming a guy who wants to be a pastor has a good solid church with a pastor who can disciple him. A lot DONT have that, so they must go to a seminary for the training. How could that be wrong?

God respects our decisions???? Chapter and verse plz. Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? I think those verses are rather clear that God tells us, this is how it is. Period.