other one

Russell, I have not seen these greek words for this passage that shows those differences you post. There are a lot of references that I do not have, however the english you put there is what I believe. You will get a lot of flack from that for it is one of the things the JW stress and a lot of people won't even listen to you for they have rejected the JW's and everything they stand for. I do agree we should reject a lot of the teaching of the JW's but not necessairly everything they or anyone says. Each thing should be looked at and decided on its own. I'd like to see whatever it is that the greek comes from to see if it would be agreeable to me. The reason I ask is, there are manuscripts that were made in Alexandria that I personally am suspect of. Gnostic religon was very strong there and it appears to me found it's way into some of the bible manuscripts. That's why I don't use any translation that states in john 3:16 that those who believe shall not perish instead of should not. I find I am spending too much time validating the scripture with other parts of the bible than I have to spend.

Steve, there are several things in the NIV that bother me greatly and I decided a very long time ago that I would not use it for serious study. It has been too many years and a lot of mileage to tell you the details of why. But I don't use the NIV for anything. I was spending too much time researching differences While this is my personal view and I don't openly fault others for using it, I don't wish to discuss serious doctrine from that translation. Sam

Leonard, are you saying that Jesus is the Father??? Sam

Russsll, Phillipians 2:6+ gives a little more insite to the verbage in John 1:1. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not reguard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness of men. And bing found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even the death of a cross. Therefore also God Highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under theearth, and that every tongue should confess that Jusej Christ is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father. This is the NASB, the last copywrite listed was 1977. The language of the KJV is somewhat different, but the early language is difficult for me to totally comprehend so I have used the NASB for this post. I am trying to work out what Jesus actually was before being made in the likeness of man. From this it looks to me like he was not God but was in the form of God. I think this is the answer to the trinity and how it all fits together, if we can just figure out what this means (if possible). Right now all power is given to him, but somewhere it says when His enemies are defeated He will give the power back to the father. I don't have time to look that up right now. It is time to go to visit one of the most godly, loving woman on the face of the earth. That humble being that brought me into this world. I really do have much more to say about this subject when time and typing becomes available.

Catsmeow, it is interesting that you say that, it has been in my prayers off and on for the past year or so.

I ran across an article this morning that says it was Hitler when he was speaking about the formation of the gestapo. The quote was in some old notes I ran across from 30+ years ago and I couldn't remember where it came from. It bothers me to make notes and not remember why.... sometimes it's the pits getting old Sam

Cerran, I remember reading news articles as early as January that they were investigating abuse of the prisioners, but didn't mention what that abuse might mean. While I'm no bush-rummie fan I'll give them credit that they did say something was not right and it was being looked into. Considering what it was, and knowing the effects it was going to cause I can see why they would want to postpone for a while everyong knowing exactly what was going on. This will effect the safety and possibly the very lives of our military everywhere. I don't think (hope not) this is something wide spread and it is not good to make the good upstanding part sholder the effects of the few. I very seldom would agree to cover up serious problems, however there are cases where the results of something are so bad it is best for it not to be public, simply dealt with, punishment dealt out and end it. I think it came out this way not as an accident, but to make us look evil to the Musilm population of the world, and it worked. I am beginning to wonder about it myself. Just what effect has all the porn that is rampant actually had on our population, and how many are really involved? Questions I really can't answer....

My name comes from work. I had another "Sam" on my team at work (which died earlier thisyear) and we use our first initial and last name at work a lot and there is another S. Evans in Okla City that gets confused with myself in mail and such. Over the years for some reason I have been picked out as "the other one"

I like the way you put that........

While we are being shocked and upset, we should also be looking into why is this happening and why now. Sam

I find it rather fascinating how we start a post and I tell everyone I have a particular problem with a single word translation, and think it makes a really big difference in the salvation and safety of the entire world population, and in one post the subject of my problem is changed to something that I really don't have a problem with. Now where do you suppose this group of "many" people got the idea that they were saved. How can people be so deceived that they are rejected by The Christ? They even cast out devils and did many wonderful works. They prophesied (note here that it does not say that they were false prophets). Just where have they gone wrong. It came from believing that they were saved when in actuality they were not. They had a false sense of security. It is my belief that that condition could easily start with the translation differences, and in this sense it does not matter if Jesus is a beggar or the Almighty Himself, there is more to salvation than just believing that Jesus was or is anything. We might get the chance to ask these from Mat. 7 come judgement day. Sam

Well, while I do not believe Jesus was a simple human, I would have to have a very detailed explanation of what you mean by God Almighty in the flesh to agree with that phraise. I hear it a lot but have not heard a good explanation of all that it takes in. He made it clear that the Father was in Him and He in the Father, but was very clear to point out He was not the Father. So God Almighty may have been in His Flesh, but He was not God Almighty. God Almighty is the Father. I don't have the time to carry it out farther, it is much past my bedtime. Sam

I have a problem with NIV in John 3:16. It changes the word "should" to "shall" and makes a very big difference in the meaniing of the sentence . It makes the difference of a person just "believing" being saved, and a person just "believing" not necessarily being condemned. This confuses what it takes to be saved in a lot of different groups. My first check on a translation is to see how this is translated. If it says shall, I personally won't use it. A seriuos change like this is a sign to me that it may have other problems I might not pick up on. Sam

Yes it is something females have to deal with (maybe males too), and my wife deals with it with an elbow. I used to think that look but don't touch was the norm, it took a bit to understand the problem it creates for one with a life mate. Single guys may need some education from a sensitive female. All told, a look is almost always setp one to disaster.... Sam

Hippo, for about 10 years I studied a lot about occult and luciferian people and the realm you are having problems with. I was simply looking into it as a hobby and not trying to join. Something to the effect of knowing your enemy. It took me quite a long time go get over the effects of it for I was not much more than a go to church christian at the time. That's a long story not to voice here so I won't. One of the things that freed me up at night was getting the bible on tapes. you can do it much better with mp3 files and play them on your computer all night. Listening to most of the new testament all night seemed to keep the dark ones at bay for me. It might not work for everyone but it helped me at the time. The reason I say most of the new testament, I would not do revelation, or parts of the old testament dealing with warfare. It tends to give some really disturbing dreams of another nature, while those are not of an evil nature they are not conducive for a good night's sleep. Sam

I have a question. The present day Palestinian

Uh! That's not they way it happened and I think you know that :suspect: actually overall it sort of was that way.

Ron, If what malichi martin told me is true, Roman Catholicism died at vaticanII. From what I have been able to read and understand, I agree with him. I am not a Catholic, most likely because of vatican II but I am not really sure of that. Sam

I think it is from an old injury from many years ago that flairs up now and then. when you do the work I do your hands arms sholders and back get a lot of stress. It could be something else, but has happedned before. I do know I can't do this one fingered thing for long.... I talk too much to have the time