MrsSealedEternal

Rev 1:19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. Well, I am including end times events to be part of what I believe any first century Spirit and Truth filled believer could of come to understand when studying all the scriptures, including the ones concerning the revelation of Christ as testified to by John. I think they could of grasped an understanding of how the beast and Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth committed fornication together and came to rule with their power, AND that there would be another antichrist empire like it that would rise up and be bent on one world conquest, coming to power, uniting under it's rule that all should worship it's beastly image, which is really not made in God's image, until the end of this age, instead of the the King of kings and Lord of lords, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Alpha and the Omega, whose appearing will be... Rev 1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality." Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, Rev 17:5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. Rev 17:7 And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. Rev 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, Rev 17:10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. Rev 17:11 "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. Rev 17:13 "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." Rev 17:15 And he *said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. Rev 17:17 "For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. Rev 17:18 "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth." ...my head feels like it's reeling a little, but I really feel the need to stress these parts ... Rev 17:10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. Rev 17:11 "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. Rev 17:13 "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." Mat 13:37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, Mat 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. Mat 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. I just cannot believe that ancient pagan rome is the complete and proper fulfillment of the scriptures concerning the mystery of Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth and that this prophecy does not bear a future signifigance. God Bless

A ha! I think we may have hit on something worthwhile there!

Maybe you peck at your food instead of slopping at the trough? I really dunno...just guessing

Me too. Are you saying that the woman, spoken of in Revelation has already been revealed for the first centuy christians, who you claim that John wrote if for, so the christians of today are reading about a non-coming prophecy, because revelation is a book of prophecy. You are sounding like a preterist. Maybe so; I'm not sure what a preterist sounds like; aren't they on the endangered species list? My overall point is, once we understand what John's letter meant to his intended hearers, then we have a basis for contemporary application. The first order of business, though, is to hear it with first-century ears, so to speak, minus all of the speculative noise, minus all of the conjecture, etc. What did it mean to John's intended audience? I've never said that Revelation wasn't relevant or applicable to Christians today; it most certainly is, otherwise it wouldn't have been preserved for us. What I have serious doubts about is whether the prevailing popular view is the correct one. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, I have been biting my tongue about the sunglass emoticon you are so fond of, too. Thank goodness ur a humorous guy, preteristic or not. Now, I believe even the first century spirit filled believer who had been studying the same scriptures that we do would of been able to come to understand that this revelation of the Lord was going to be actively at work until all the things written in it are fulfilled. I take issue with the thought of reading it in such a 1 dimensional manner as to only apply it's fullfillments to first century alone, because the Lord said to understand whenever whosoever reads it that it was concerning Him... Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Then earlier in the thread I explained what I believe about God's timekeeping cuckoo clock with a 24hour day gear, a thousand year day gear, and an eternal day gear working together. Well, when John testifies that... Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, ...I believe it is inclusive of all the day gears in God's timekeeping cuckoo clock. And what is the fulfillment we are looking for in the revelation of Christ? I believe He tells us here... Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, Rev 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Therefore, from this day to that day... Rev 22:7 "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Rev 22:8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Rev 22:9 But he *said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God." Rev 22:10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Rev 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost. Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. God Bless

LOL Very good. I don't think Oprah has political ambitions in the sense of holding office. I think she is far more interested in "real" power; the kind of power she has now using various forms of media to put out her ideas. Yup, she is a master mediagician at work for Obama. Someone should write an opera about it... Hmmmm....I am getting this mental image....Oprah wearing horns, brandishing a sword and singing Wagner....Flight of the Valkyries comes to mind. ToHO! ToHO! Oh My! I can see and hear it...that's terrible!

LOL Very good. I don't think Oprah has political ambitions in the sense of holding office. I think she is far more interested in "real" power; the kind of power she has now using various forms of media to put out her ideas. Yup, she is a master mediagician at work for Obama. Someone should write an opera about it...

In this day and age, it would make a lot of sense. I am looking for a new heaven and a new earth. They can have this one. BTW, I like listening to opera more than Oprah...

I copy and pasted my remarks from comments #172 & #198 in this topic...The Great Whore of Babylon ...from post #172... ...from post #198... Hope this helps. God Bless

Dear Sister, There is no question in anyone's mind that Revelation can be a difficult book to read and understand, if we let it be. My understanding, at this point, is that there is a timeless message for all of God's people, namely that we are to maintain our integrity and our faith as Christians even when things get so bad it would be easier to assume that God has abandoned us. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, Yes, there are many things difficult to read and undertsand, but are you humbly and prayerfully seeking His face while you read it? Are you asking God to show you Himself and in your minds eye could you see the glory and in your heart can you feel the power of the coming of the Lord in the revelations of God's Word? Is God calling or talking to you? Listen for it... God Bless Absolutely. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, Good, I really do hope so. Then you must know He wrote it to us, too and His Word is still being fulfilled, so don't seal up the revelations yet. God Bless Rest assured, I haven't. Still studying. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, If all my life I stand by all the things I understood in error to be truth, I will never realize Him. All those questions I asked of you, I must prayerfully ask of myself when I am studying. I stand by what has been revealed to me and that is...'He wrote it to us, too and His Word is still being fulfilled, so don't seal up the revelations yet.'...Listen for it...in His Spirit and Truth...Do not seal up the revelations yet...He will interpret us all according to His standards until all these things be fulfilled. Rev 22:10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Rev 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost. Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. May God Bless

Dear Sister, There is no question in anyone's mind that Revelation can be a difficult book to read and understand, if we let it be. My understanding, at this point, is that there is a timeless message for all of God's people, namely that we are to maintain our integrity and our faith as Christians even when things get so bad it would be easier to assume that God has abandoned us. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, Yes, there are many things difficult to read and undertsand, but are you humbly and prayerfully seeking His face while you read it? Are you asking God to show you Himself and in your minds eye could you see the glory and in your heart can you feel the power of the coming of the Lord in the revelations of God's Word? Is God calling or talking to you? Listen for it... God Bless Absolutely. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, Good, I really do hope so. Then you must know He wrote it to us, too and His Word is still being fulfilled, so don't seal up the revelations yet. God Bless

Dear Sister, There is no question in anyone's mind that Revelation can be a difficult book to read and understand, if we let it be. My understanding, at this point, is that there is a timeless message for all of God's people, namely that we are to maintain our integrity and our faith as Christians even when things get so bad it would be easier to assume that God has abandoned us. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, Yes, there are many things difficult to read and undertsand, but are you humbly and prayerfully seeking His face while you read it? Are you asking God to show you Himself and in your minds eye could you see the glory and in your heart can you feel the power of the coming of the Lord in the revelations of God's Word? Is God calling or talking to you? Listen for it... God Bless

Beautiful music...Makes me marvel at the thought of it. Of which verses is the first quote concerning? Thank You for sharing

What turbulent times we live in. Yes, it has been coming to this point. Brethren, let us be found praying for the true peace of Jerusalem and looking to Him who was pierced for our iniquities...lifting one another up that we may endure to the end and be brought through the judgements coming on this world as foretold by His holy apostles and prophets. Exo 15:17 "You will bring them and plant them in the mountain of Your inheritance, The place, O LORD, which You have made for Your dwelling, The sanctuary, O Lord, which Your hands have established. Exo 15:18 "The LORD shall reign forever and ever." Num 6:22 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, Num 6:23 "Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, 'Thus you shall bless the sons of Israel. You shall say to them: Num 6:24 The LORD bless you, and keep you; Num 6:25 The LORD make His face shine on you, And be gracious to you; Num 6:26 The LORD lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.' Num 6:27 "So they shall invoke My name on the sons of Israel, and I then will bless them." Psa 2:1 Why are the nations in an uproar And the peoples devising a vain thing? Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth take their stand And the rulers take counsel together Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, Psa 2:3 "Let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us!" Psa 2:4 He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them. Psa 2:5 Then He will speak to them in His anger And terrify them in His fury, saying, Psa 2:6 "But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain." Psa 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Psa 2:8 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. Psa 2:9 'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'" Psa 2:10 Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; Take warning, O judges of the earth. Psa 2:11 Worship the LORD with reverence And rejoice with trembling. Psa 2:12 Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! Rev 2:26 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; Rev 2:27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; Rev 2:28 and I will give him the morning star. Rev 2:29 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' Through our Lord and Saviour, Yeshua Amen

It is...Paul Potts. HA!

I want to know...what is his name? With a voice like that, I would love listening to him sing some more, but I don't even know his name? Is it Paul Potts or is that somebody else?

No disagreement there. No disagreement here, either. Here is where we disagree - with the assumption that John was initially writing directly to you and I in the present day. He was not. He was writing initially to the seven churches of Asia Minor. The church was on a collision course with the state. The Roman empire had begun to persecute Christians, first under Nero and then, at the time John wrote the Revelation, under Domitian. Any valid interpretation must take the historical record into account. John's message was essentially this - "Things are going to get much worse before they get better, but they will get better. Hang in there. Sit tight. Hold fast." Was John writing directly to you and I? No. Can we learn from it anyway? Absolutely. That's why it is there. Dear Rufus of Cyrene, What have you learned from it? From your perspective, what else do you get from reading the revelation of the Word of God? Did it bring you face to face with the Lord? Thanks

!!! Moved me to tears...WOW!

MrsSealed, What you need to understand is that there are those who see the book of Revelation as totally in the past. Preterists, for example believe that everything written in Revelation has already happened by 70 A.D. Therefore, they do not see any future fulfillment or direct relevance to us other than something we can learn from. That is where a significant portion of disagreement over the book of Revelation comes from. Some would agree that it describes ancient Rome, but also has a future fulfillment in a heretofore unidentified entity that will bear some of the same characteristics as ancient Rome. Yes there are those who believe that the whole of the book of Revelation has already happened but that doesn't make them right according to the written word. There is scripture that a preterist has to twist out of shape or egnore to make their beliefs right. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. Mat 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. Mat 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Mat 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Mat 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Mat 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. Mat 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Mat 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Mat 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance. Mat 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. Mat 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Mat 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. Mat 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Mat 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Mat 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; Mat 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Mat 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mat 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Mat 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. Mat 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? Mat 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. Mat 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. Mat 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; Mat 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Rev 1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost. Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Num 6:24 The LORD bless you, and keep you; Num 6:25 The LORD make His face shine on you, And be gracious to you; Num 6:26 The LORD lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.' Shalom

MrsSealed, What you need to understand is that there are those who see the book of Revelation as totally in the past. Preterists, for example believe that everything written in Revelation has already happened by 70 A.D. Therefore, they do not see any future fulfillment or direct relevance to us other than something we can learn from. That is where a significant portion of disagreement over the book of Revelation comes from. Some would agree that it describes ancient Rome, but also has a future fulfillment in a heretofore unidentified entity that will bear some of the same characteristics as ancient Rome. This situation makes me think of a coming rude awakening when you can hear the Paul Harvey saying...'and now you know the rest of the story.'

No disagreement there. No disagreement here, either. Here is where we disagree - with the assumption that John was initially writing directly to you and I in the present day. He was not. He was writing initially to the seven churches of Asia Minor. The church was on a collision course with the state. The Roman empire had begun to persecute Christians, first under Nero and then, at the time John wrote the Revelation, under Domitian. Any valid interpretation must take the historical record into account. John's message was essentially this - "Things are going to get much worse before they get better, but they will get better. Hang in there. Sit tight. Hold fast." Was John writing directly to you and I? No. Can we learn from it anyway? Absolutely. That's why it is there. Dear RufusofCyrene, Hmmm...I believe this revelation of Christ was, is, and continues to go forth until all things be fulfilled. IF you believe all these things have already been fulfilled by 70 A.D. and only can be interpretated in the past sense, then yes, we must prayerfully agree to disagree. 2Pe 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 2Pe 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2Pe 1:21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. This is not merely about John initially writing directly to you and I, but more importantly about God sending for us His Word which was meant to be written on our hearts. Personal application...God's Word is for them, you, me and the whole rest of the world. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. God Bless

How I should of worded the beginning of that sentence is...More appropriately the worship of... Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. The revelation has personal applications that God is showing will interpret each individual because we are God's temple and if we practice idolatry, which is harlotry, then we will share in her sins and recieve her judgements. This Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth has deeper meaning in it than just simply regarding it is the pagan rome of John's day because the revelation is still actively working towards it's complete fulfillment. Invalid-Revelation was not written to me or you personally; it was written to the seven churches of Asia Minor. It is a word for us, not to us. Dear RufusofCyrene, I am already aware that it was SENT forth to the seven lampstands... Rev 1:11 saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea." BUT Who inspired John to write revelations AND preserved His Word for ALL who read it and what else did He say? Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Rev 1:2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. If it was written for us, then it was written to us and we were meant to recieve it, ALSO. Rev 22:10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. God Bless

How I should of worded the beginning of that sentence is...More appropriately the worship of... Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. The revelation has personal applications that God is showing will interpret each individual because we are God's temple and if we practice idolatry, which is harlotry, then we will share in her sins and recieve her judgements. This Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth has deeper meaning in it than just simply regarding it is the pagan rome of John's day because the revelation is still actively working towards it's complete fulfillment.

Revelation is a book of prophecy. Why are the readers back then supposed to understand the metaphores? Quite right. The revelation was penned in the same century as that of the Olivette discourse of Matt chapter 24 and luke 21, in fact only about 60 years between. Revelation is prophesy projected ahead at least 1900 years, when Rome is just another capital city in the world today. Incorrect. Revelation was written specifically to meet a need of the seven churches to which it was addressed, to wit, encouragement. Revelation was not just written to the churches of Johns time it was written to all the Lords servants. Revelation 1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants

Rev 17:18 "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth." Ancient rome's pantheon of pagan god's and beliefs would of been an appropriate depiction of this in John's day. God Bless

Revelation is a book of prophecy. Why are the readers back then supposed to understand the metaphores? Quite right. The revelation was penned in the same century as that of the Olivette discourse of Matt chapter 24 and luke 21, in fact only about 60 years between. Revelation is prophesy projected ahead at least 1900 years, when Rome is just another capital city in the world today. Incorrect. Revelation was written specifically to meet a need of the seven churches to which it was addressed, to wit, encouragement. Revelation was not just written to the churches of Johns time it was written to all the Lords servants. Revelation 1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants