Jorge S

Josh, I agree with you in principle but please don't fail to recognize that Shiloh referred to 'avid' evolutionists. These guys are not here to learn anything but to propagandize Evolution. They have already decided that science stands taller than the Bible. They're are not interested in knowing how other Christians from all walks of life (including higher education graduates, of course) deal with the challenges of today's secular culture with its evolutionary overtones in everything from Cosmology and Biology to Sociology, the Arts and Entertainment. They are here to tell us how stupid we are for upholding the historic character of Genesis. While calling themselves Christians they will actually exhibit weird views that have nothing to do with biblical teachings. They will remain reluctant to correction no matter how much reasoning, testimonies, prayers, theology and admonishment you throw at them. They will come and go; always using the same tired arguments and examples; always failing to provide biblical substrate to their evolutionary obsession; able to quote tons of articles but blind to the simple, bigger picture; quick to credit chance and time with the ability to make stuff happen but deniers of God's Power, Sovereignty and Wisdom in creating the world as He said He did. Of them it is truly said that they're wolves in sheep's clothing. And that's a nicety for the Bible treats in harsher terms all those who depart from God's Word. Blessings.

Just be careful whom you are praying to. The One True God depicted in the Bible made the world out of nothing in six days, formed Adam with His own Hands, walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden, chastised them for the original sin which brought about death, sickness and the cursing of the earth, expelled them from the Garden after promising them a Redeemer, brought judgement upon a wicked world by means of a universal flood, divided the common human race into distinctive nations and languages, raised a nation out of Abraham, Isaac and Israel to be His Holy Nation and the bloodline of the Redeemer, rescued that nation from slavery out of Egypt by means of powerful signs and wonders, revealed His Law in Mt Sinai and instructed Moses to write Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. And are you going to pray in the Name of Jesus... the same Jesus whose fleshy genealogy started with Adam? He is the one Who was with the Father in the beginning, for Whom and by Whom all things were created, the promised seed out of Eve, the second Adam, the One Who brings us back to God by taking upon Himself the penalty for sin. He endorses Moses as the writer of the Pentateuch, refers to Adam and Eve, Abel, Noah, Jonas as historic figures, treats the global flood as an event in history and instructs us to call no one father on earth because we have a Heavenly Father. The problem does not lie in interpreting Genesis wrongly but in attempting to interpret Genesis at all. Pray if you must but don't wrestle with God.

When we get into Adam and Eve we're really not so much talking about problems with the ToE as much as we are talking about multiple contradictions with archeology. By 6,000 years ago we already have numerous independent civilizations starting to spring up around the world so it's clear that if Adam and Eve where historical figures they couldn't have lived in that time but would need to have lived at least 50,000 years ago. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with evolution, we're dealing strictly with archaeology at this point. On the other hand I don't particularly think the doctrine of original sin is particularly well understood as the NT makes it abundantly clear that while all men are sinful it is our own sins for which we need to be redeemed, not the sins of others. In this sense we do not require a historical Adam sinning 6,000 years ago to require salvation, all we need is sin in our own lives which is plentiful but is also dependent upon our being able to understand our own decisions. The issue of whether Adam and Eve are historical figures or metaphorical sterotypes is a difficult one and there is a very real possibility that they were both historical and stereotypes for humanity. However, unless God created fake evidence for multiple people groups around the world synonymously with Adam and Eve they did not live 6,000 years ago. A short and really well-put discussion of this important issue can be found here: What Are We to Make of Adam and Eve? Lurker Lurker, After reading your post there's no doubt in my mind that your connection with Christianity seems to be mainly grammatical, in the sense that Christian serves only as an adjective qualifying the noun Apostasy. You have just attempted to murder a major doctrine of our faith.

That's a sign of the spiritual warfare of our times. Satan has instigated evolution as a counterfeit religion and evolutionists must, deliberately or unwillingly, preach the canon of their ruler. The prince of darkness knows that undermining God's Authorship and Rulership of the world is the first step into lawlessness and damnation. God is reduced to a delusion, Jesus demoted to a suicidal teacher of utopias and the Bible relegated to ancient storytelling. No truth, no future, no salvation.

Barbecue Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;.... Genesis 9:3(a) With Salad .... even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis 9:3(b) Brilliant! Amen!!

I fortunately visit a church with a healthy population of youngsters. More dramatically, most of the 2 to 4 people who give their lives to Jesus after every service are young persons. God Bless.

The term "practical atheist" is preferable and it truly describes certain ugly lifestyle choices we often make as believers, either ignorantly or deliberately. I personally had to struggle with smoking and reluctance to tithe during times I thought I could literally die for God any day.

For a practical exercise on how science works under the evolutionary spell go to the original article as published at the same site last year (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090519104643.htm) and compare with the current article. Consider a few things (emphasis mine): 1- The pompous claims: "This is the first link to all humans ... truly a fossil that links world heritage," "The link they would have said until now is missing ... it is no longer missing." 2- The propaganda machinery in full force: "The findings of the two-year study will be revealed exclusively by Atlantic Productions in a documentary film, "The Link," to be screened by HistoryBBC One in the UK Tuesday May 26th, 2009 at 9pm BST. It will also be broadcast on ZDF, NRK and around the world. A book, "The Link," will be published by Little Brown and Company, a division of Hachette Book Group, on Wednesday May 20th. An interactive, content-rich website about Ida has been launched at ... on Monday May 25th, 2009 at 9pm ET/PT" 3- The side-stepping of the much overstated 'peer-review' fail-safe: "For the past two years, an international team of scientists...has secretly conducted a detailed forensic analysis of the extraordinary fossil..." "There's this enormous body of literature that has built up over the years. The Darwinius research completely ignored that body of literature." 4- The authority implied in the scholarship and technological resources invested in examining the evidence: experts, professors, x-rays, ct scans. 5- The unprovable assumptions, like this one: "The scientists believe she was overcome by carbon dioxide gas whilst ... drinking from the Messel lake: the still waters of the lake were often covered by a low lying blanket of the gas as a result of the volcanic forces that formed the lake and which were still active. Hampered by her broken wrist, Ida slipped into unconsciousness, was washed into the lake, and sunk to the bottom, where the unique conditions preserved her for 47 million years." 6- The fact that the same evidence can lead to significantly different conclusions: "...the fossil is a transitional species

Hi, InternalFlame Your boyfriend will be the luckiest of men if he earns you as his wife. You are loyal beyond the point of merit; you will stand for -and by- your chosen cause -or person- through low and high water. That's where your strength lies. Your only requirement seems to be assessing the worthiness of the cause -or person- that will garner your commitment. That's entirely fair, honest and brave. A few of points to consider: No one is perfectly healthy nor will always stay healthy either. Own and partner's health problems are part of the process of marriage. There are plenty of healthier individuals who will break your heart, or never propose to you, or never gain your affection even if they do. The matter isn't only about what you can do for him but also what he can do for you. If he loves you and makes you feel happy why then should he be penalized for something that is not his fault? (Bear in mind that AS has a genetic predisposition. The scenario is radically different from a condition brought by a deliberately unhealthy lifestyle) He can certainly experience all types of complications as written in medical texts but you can't discount that he may as well develop a mild course of disease. Balancing things out: follow your heart. There is where the Lord resides in you and from where He directs your life. If He ordains and blesses this marriage then the issue of illness might constitute a challenge but never a stumbling block. God Bless.

The ground where you're standing now is not solid enough. There are problems with your ability to discern things. It is like a student who prepared for an exam by quickly memorizing chunks of material without paying attention to their meaning, then failed because he was asked questions that required interpretation rather than just reproduction of the information he held. This can be seen in your shocking examples for 'bad design' in humans which do not stand to reason neither on biblical nor scientific grounds. If rooted in biblical creation you would a) have endeavoured to find meaning and function in those features created by a purposeful designer, b) differentiate disease from design, and c) understand that with regards to the singular origin of nature the present is not really the key to the past. Take this experience also as proof against the fallacy that data alone can teach you anything to disprove the Bible. Data need to be interpreted in order to yield meaning and the presuppositions of the interpreter influence the conclusions.

Fortunately the discussion mainly revolved about a topic far more important than bacteria: your current standing as a believer. It's the first time I see you coming 'out of the closet' with regards to Scripture. And I regret to say that what came out was an alarmingly shallow knowledge of the Word of God which has derailed you into gross doctrinal error. It is imperative that you get rid of the mistaken views you have aired in this thread at your most urgent convenience. We don't have the right to question your relationship with Jesus but we have the brotherly duty to point out your misrepresentation of that relationship. I hope to still read you around. But most of all I hope you prayerfully consider a 'Back-to-the-Bible' journey of spiritual enlightenment. It is good when Jesus corrects us: Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; therefore be zealous and repent. And is even better when He leads: Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. He perfectly knows -and therefore reveals- about the Spiritual and the Natural realms of existence: Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things? Because He created everything: Jonh 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

I'm in a state of nail-biting with the thrills of anticipation!

It's proven they were buried. For millions of years? Not proven. See further below. Did you mean theropod!? A misspelling is not a big deal... unless seen in the writtings of a self-appointed prophet of scientism who is always demanding citations and references and exhorting his fellow debaters to 'learn some science.' Why the burden of 'checking' should be on others? In the book that deserved so little of your approval Dr Brown wrote: Out-of-Place Fossils Frequently, fossils are not vertically sequenced in the assumed evolutionary order. For example, in Uzbekistan, 86 consecutive hoofprints of horses were found in rocks dating back to the dinosaurs. Hoofprints of some other animal are alongside 1,000 dinosaur footprints in Virginia. A leading authority on the Grand Canyon published photographs of horselike hoofprints visible in rocks that, according to the theory of evolution, predate hoofed animals by more than a 100 million years. Dinosaur and humanlike footprints were found together in Turkmenistan and Arizona. Sometimes, land animals, flying animals, and marine animals are fossilized side-by-side in the same rock. Dinosaur, whale, elephant, horse, and other fossils, plus crude human tools, have reportedly been found in phosphate beds in South Carolina. Coal beds contain round, black lumps called coal balls, some of which contain flowering plants that allegedly evolved 100 million years after the coal bed was formed. In the Grand Canyon, in Venezuela, in Kashmir, and in Guyana, spores of ferns and pollen from flowering plants are found in Cambrian rocks, rocks supposedly deposited before flowering plants evolved. Pollen has also been found in Precambrian rocks deposited before life allegedly evolved. Petrified trees in Arizona's petrified forest contain fossilized nests of bees and cocoons of wasps. The petrified forests are reputedly 220 million years old, while bees (and flowering plants which bees require) supposedly evolved almost a 100 million years later. Pollinating insects and fossil flies, with long, well-developed tubes for sucking nectar from flowers, are dated 25 million years before flowers are assumed to have evolved. Most evolutionists and textbooks systematically ignore discoveries which conflict with the evolutionary time scale. Dr Brown gave not less than 13 references for those two paragraphs. Have you checked them? Where are the facts upon which you base such a derogatory claim?

Perhaps you're not really looking. Walter Brown's basic claim is that the world shows universal signs of catastrophe caused primarily by lots of water in keeping with the biblical flood scenario. Any new evidence or explanation that subverts the credibility of the hegemonic uniformitarian wisdom constitutes a vindication of Mr Brown's work, even if the Hydroplate Theory in itself does not prove to be the ultimate explanation (something we neither claim nor expect.) Here is just a sampler: Comets are a mixture of hot minerals, volatiles and organic compounds similar to those found in planets, including the earth. Science (vol. 314, 15 Dec. 2006), BBC news, Space.com, National Geographic, and other sites. 'Plumes from deep mantle, subduction into deep mantle, and bottom-up convective drive do not exist.' An Alternative Earth by Hamilton. GSA Journal. http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?reque...AE%3E2.0.CO%3B2 Mudstone can be deposited by rapid flow. http://creationsafaris.com/crev200712.htm Canyons could be shaped by mega-floods. http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literat..._paradigm_shift Diamonds and Gold can form in short periods, not millions of years. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/...ature05692.html ; http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/5797/288 [*]Lyell lied (regarding the rate of erosion of the Niagara gorge) http://creationontheweb.com/index2.php?opt...op=1&page=0 [*]Microbes can double the rate of deposition of sedimentary rocks (with obvious dating implications) http://www.physorg.com/news120228971.html [*]Palladium experiments questioned 'Late Veneer Hypothesis' on earth formation. http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?o...r=0&thold=0 There is one fundamental problem you will always have with Walter Brown: he is a Christian who believes the Bible in general to be true and Genesis in particular to be an accurate historic account of the Creation event and the Global Flood. No amount of evidence will ever be good enough for you and this is in total agreement with biblical teaching - believing the Biblical God has never been a problem of lack of evidence but rather of 'hardening of the heart.'

Dear Kim Satan and his demons are spiritual beings. You may not see them but they are real and cause trouble by influencing your mind negatively and operating in more physical ways over your body and/or your surroundings; therefore you may have unexplained afflictions, confusion, depression, suicidal tendencies, illnesses, accidents, etc, etc, etc. It might be difficult for you to fight back on your own and that's why I insist you visit a church. I will continue praying for you. Blessings.

His theory has been vindicated in several instances by more recent research findings and paradigms repositioning. I'm not contending his theory is the only explanation but perhaps highlighting it is the only one that has attempted to comprehensively explain the evidence from a biblical point of view and fared well at that in purely scientific grounds (as opposed to religious grounds, whether deist or atheist!)

Creationists in general do not get much space in evolutionistic publications. If publication in a peer-reviewed journal is the only measure of the value of his claims then I'll have to think you're using something close to a lame excuse. Peer reviews are not an insurance against nonsense if everyone is committed to upholding the same presupposition.

Walt Brown would disagree with you. In his online book he lists a few evidences which are better explained by a catastrophic flood, namely: 1. The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons 2. Mid-Oceanic Ridge 3. Continental Shelves and Slopes 4. Ocean Trenches and the Ring of Fire 5. Earthquakes 6. Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor 7. Submarine Canyons 8. Coal and Oil 9. Methane Hydrates 10. Ice Age 11. Frozen Mammoths 12. Major Mountain Ranges 13. Overthrusts 14. Volcanoes and Lava 15. Geothermal Heat 16. Strata and Layered Fossils 17. Limestone 18. Metamorphic Rock 19. Plateaus 20. The Moho 21. Salt Domes 22. Jigsaw Fit of the Continents 23. Changing Axis Tilt 24. Comets 25. Asteroids and Meteoroids A more detailed explanation follows in the next 200+ pages. {http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/...Sciences12.html} You may or may not agree with him but his position represents a look at the evidence from a different position. BTW: Long time not exchanging views on this Board. Hope everything is well with you and your loved ones. Blessings.

It is a system of divination. Christians should not use it because Our God does not employ this means of communication. Remember what He instructed in Deuteronomy 18:10-12 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a fortune-teller, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or one who calls to the dead. For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah.

Hi, Kim Your current situation might not be entirely your fault. What I have highlighted out of your opening post seems to me like a spiritual attack. Now, ask yourself who can benefit from your walking away from God. The solution is on the way and that's why Satan is trying to scare you off, for he knows you're walking back into the realm of divine protection and you'll be unreachable to him while in there. When I was searching for the Lord I experienced relational problems, work problems, financial problems, illnesses, persistent headache and an oppressive sense of weight at the back of my head and neck. It only took to kneel down and invite Jesus into my life as Lord and Saviour. Everything went away with no medication, no counselling, no external help, nothing but faith and the supernatural influence of the Lord. Jesus is all you need. Make even a stronger commitment to HIM, visit a church, have the congregation pray for you. I'm praying deliverance here in the Mighty Name of JESUS OF NAZARETH. Maybe it's all the way around. Fear of the Lord (in the sense of respect, obedience, dependability, trust, concern about not disappointing Him, thrive to please Him according to His standards and make Him feel proud of us) is born out of knowing Who He Is, what He has done and what He is capable of. Cheer up, sister. He Is Coming!

True. And it is a sign of maturity and personal strength to avoid retaliation and refrain from harbouring negative feelings. I think the authority of the parents has to be respected and upheld no matter what. As far as I can remember, the Bible does not concede any exceptions. We are somebody's children and we become someone else's parents thereafter. There's no escape to experience the situation from both perspectives. I had an extremely tense relationship (which for some time deteriorated into no relationship at all) with my father. Down into the pit of my teenage years I could forgive the battering I got but not the gigantic and oppressive lack of him that I endured. It was hard to live like an orphan when I wasn't really one and I felt victimized well beyond proportion because I never was a bad kid. But we both grew and overcame the barriers. I ended up becoming his trusted confidant and we pretty much made up for the years of alienation. He died 7 years ago. Even when I wasn't a Christian by then I thank God today for giving me the understanding and the strength to initiate the path towards reconciliation. I was vindicated in ways that I could have never planned or even dream of.

It's one of the rarest locations for an ectopic pregnancy and both mother and baby managed to survive. Amazing!

That's the damage Satan has done: to make us believe that this sad state of affairs is everything there is to life and everything that we deserve. Let us tirelessly preach Jesus and Him crucified, as Paul said, because that's where the solution lies. Some will listen. The struggle has not, is not and will not be easy because the enemy is mighty. But even mightier is He Who laid his life in Calvary for our trespasses so that we can rise and reign with him. Do not get frustrated, my brother. Share our freedom, joy and hope with all those who also need them.

Awesome. I was moved by the afflicted tone of bewilderment. It reminded me of Jeremiah's writings. That kid will be somebody in the Body of Christ. May Our Gracious Lord Bless Him and use him for His Glory.

By the way, I forgot to comment on this. I've read about it some time ago from different sources which are not readily available in my library at present. Gen 1 is a summary of the entire process of Creation while Gen 2 concentrates a particular events of Day 6. Some have argued that the first chapter is God's account while the second may represent Adam's perspective about things affecting him more closely. Due to similarities with extant clay tablets from the Moses period in nearby geographical locations (Ugarit?), and in view that the division of the Bible in chapters with numbered verses were late additions, the Toledoth hypothesis was born. It is characterized by the closing statement 'these are the generations of...' -which can be seen at other places in Genesis- as the appropriate chapter ends. From that point of view Chapter 1 properly ends with Gen 2.4 and not with 1.31, thus becoming a conclusion to the events narrated above Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens. It sounds interesting.