Vickilynn

Shalom, If I'm not mistaken, I think I read someplace that the writer is a Christian homeschooling father.

That's amazing. I can imagine that birthdays would take on a whole new level of significance given a near brush with death. Shalom Shiloh, Oh yes, they do!! And in the first 5 weeks of my treatment, I was in the hospital on the Bone Marrow Transplant Unit, every day I survived was a miracle. And every day I celebrated (when I was conscious that is). And after 18 months of chemo and now being in remission, you know, my birthdays are a MILESTONE and TESTIMONY of G-d's grace in allowing me to live. I give Him all the glory. Birthdays are AWESOME when you were told you'd die before your next one!

Praise the LORD! AMEN! Happy Birthday! Shalom Bib, Thank you so much!! It was a happy happy birthday and all the glory goes to G-d for bringing me to another year, another month, another day, another hour and another minute, another second! I'm also with Marnie, I got some COOL presents!!

Shalom Bib, EXACTLY! They did not actually SEE Jesus come in the flesh, but they lived in faith, knowing He was coming, they believed G-d's Word about the Messiah and they were saved. Unfortunately, they just weren't around when He came and never got to SEE Jesus, the Messiah, come to Earth.

Shalom CC, If you truly believe that, why are you saying that sin causes us to go to Hell? That's not true. We, as Christians sin every day. And every day, as we repent, there is new grace and forgiveness of those sins. You are focusing on sin and ignoring the forgiveness. Remember, we can do NOTHING to attain or maintain our salvation. Ephesians 2. It is a free gift of G-d NOT OF WORKS, lest any one boast. Man CC, you are SO far off the mark, it's not even funny. You don't know what I believe and you should refrain from putting words in my mouth and making false assumptions. It destroys any credibility you might have had. Ephesians 2 is TRUTH, like it or not. You are not equipped to judge someone's salvation, only G-d is. I do not believe is OSAS and if you wish to debate that, please go someplace else. This topic is specifically about works to maintain salvation (which is incorrect), not OSAS. Backwards according to Romans 10 and Ephesians 2 Here it is again: Romans 10: 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Ephesians 2 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Next verse says once we are saved, we should walk in His ways (and works): 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand,that we should walk in them. 1) Heart believes 2) Mouth confesses Jesus as G-d 3) Saved by grace through faith 4) Walk in His ways from a heart's desire

Shalom KittyJo, WOW, what an awesome perspective. So beautiful. I believe I'm going to share that with my children this Christmas. Thank you!!

Shalom Alan, Maybe surprised is more accurate. Goodness Alan, are you getting irritated or something? I am free to post as you are. Just commenting is all, replying to your post, and in good-natured from my side. If you don't wish to respond to my posts, that would be fine with me. BTW, Bib is offline for the night, so why don't you just quit posting then? Take thy own advice. Hmmm, could be viewed as pretty catty there dude. Nope, I know what HE showed me, in what context and what it related to, and you don't. There again, you made an assumption which wasn't true.

Shalom Glory, HA!! Actually, I turned 51 a few days ago and I love being this age!! Even with my gray hair and wrinkles! Every day G-d gives me is a gift and I rejoice on my birthdays and hope and pray to have many more!

Shalom Alan, Of course it seemed clear to you. And I read her post completely differently and it seemed plain as day to me. I was shocked to see your response because I could not see why you thought she was talking about you and I. And then, I responded to you because the L-rd brought to my mind that this is JUST what happens on message boards. The READER interprets and may wrongly assume the motives of the poster, not to mention wrongly assume the meaning of the post. This little example just drove my point home. One of us is incorrect, and only Bib can tell us. Just as you read other posts, please remember that the READER may not be reading the post accurately and one should ask the writer if there is any question, before assuming.

Shalom Cobalt, LOL! Like that's gonna happen!

Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. Thank you Sister for your concern, but she has not sinned against me, or I would of done so. We just are butting heads ... she has her point and I have mine. We just strongly disagree with each other's view on what is being said here. OneLight Shalom Alan, I may be way off-base here, but I read Bib's post as saying that "helping one another" is correctly done according to Matthew 18, showing them in private, not in a public thread. I don't believe she was talking about you and I. But, I could be wrong and this is a perfect example of how 2 people can read the same words and see 2 different things in it, and unless we ASK the writer, we may never know which one is the truth. The same thing should be done with other posts.

Shalom, It is not a Scriptural issue, it is one of personal conviction. If one does not choose to celebrate his or her OWN birthday, that is their right. But to ask if ALL Christians should celebrate their birthdays is not something one person can decide for another. I rejoice in the birth of the Messiah. In fact, we PARTY!! It is a JOYFUL, wonderful thing to celebrate. And I love to celebrate my children's birthdays and thank G-d for them. As for myself, speaking as one who has survived almost certain death by cancer, my birthdays are a time to show the mercy of G-d in preserving my life. My birthday is a TESTIMONY to Him and His mercy in letting me live. You'd better believe we celebrate it! In fact, I just turned 51 a few days ago!!!!!!!!!! Yipppppppppeeeeeeeeeeee and praise the L-rd!

Shalom Alan, That's not what I said, you misunderstand. I said there are Scriptural ways to handle this type of thing and a public thread is not one of them. There are plenty of ways I can help people without trying to parent them or be their Holy Spirit. As I have stated several times and Bib posted so timely: Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. Once again, you are assuming that someone's words are not controlled, when that may not be the case at all. You don't seem to see what I'm getting at. You are making assumptions about people's state of mind and heart motives by their words and that is not always correct. Again, if you get upset when someone disagrees with you, you may wish to reconsider whether message boards are the place for you. I am not angry, nor have I acted in anger towards you. However, I strongly disagree with you. That's to be expected on a message board and there is nothing wrong with that. I do hope the Mods close this thread because I believe it never was edifying. and in fact, may have ignited more upset from several people.

Shalom, If you're referring to me, you are incorrect. I am not angry, nor am I acting in anger towards anyone. We are not going to all agree on everything and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Message boards are a place to discuss views and many of them differ. We can still love each other at the end of the day, whether we passionately agree or disagree. If one is bothered by heated discussion, perhaps message boards may not be a place for that person.

Shalom Alan, My name is Vickilynn. If you'd like to shorten it, please call me VL. Thanks! What I see is that you are stating that "angry words", "posting while angry", "being angry justified or not" are wrong. And Brother, I'm stating that is not Scriptural to my understanding. I'm sorry that you're sad, but it appears that you are saying one thing and then saying another, so I repeated it for clatification. You say you agree that anger is not a sin and then your statements say the opposite! I am stating that posting in anger is not wrong as long as the person does not sin. You are stating that anger is not wrong as long as the person does not post. I believe the Scriptures show that it is possible to ACT in anger, and still not sin. There is justifiable, righteous anger and demands an action. I ignored your example because I do not believe it is applicable to this situation. We are not parenting each other and we are not each other's authority and we are not teachers of each other. So, no, your example is not relevant to this situation IMHO.

Shalom Alan, I will state and restate the truth about anger from the Scriptures. You insist it is wrong to post in anger. The Scriptures disagree with you. There is nothing sinful about being angry. We are to speak the truth. One can be angry and not sin and that is the bottom line. Ephesians 4:25-27 25Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27and give no opportunity to the devil.

Shalom Bib, TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shalom CC, Hey, my name is Vickilynn. If you;d like to shorten it, please call me VL. Thanks., Nope, not true. False. A complete misstatement of fact. Please, go back and read my posts. I speak a lot about the importance of works in the life of the Believer. However, according to Scripture, works are not required for salvation. Romans 10: 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." Nope, not true again. Salvation is not progressive or dependent upon works. It is a free GIFT from G-d, not a result or reward for works. Ephesians 2 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Next verse says once we are saved, we should walk in His ways (and works): 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand,that we should walk in them. James 2 18But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. G-d wants to see faith, man wants to see works. We who are saved (born-again) are NEW creations and have a new heart and we desire to do His will. We WANT to do His works. We are not saved by them. The Scriptures are clear that works do not affect salvation, but the heart (faith) does. No, you misunderstood my point (and it's not a theory, it's Scripture.) Abraham walked out his faith before G-d. His FAITH in G-d caused him to trust G-d enough to offer up his son. That is what good works are, walking out our faith before G-d. You have the timeline backwards. The Scriptures say that we 1) believe 2) confess Him as L-rd 3) are born-again 4) do His will. 5) Get our rewards in Heaven. Of course Jesus rewards us for doing good, but not with salvation! We are already saved, doing good works! Absolutely not. That's not what the Scriptures say in Ephesians; 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. No, you left out FORGIVENESS. G-d forgives those who sin and repent. Ephesians 1 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

Shalom Thoughtful, Yes, I guess so. My beliefs concerning Scriptures are consistent. Oh really? Sorry, I disagree. ALL scripture is applicable to our daily lives, in EVERY way. It even says so of itself: 2 Timothy 3: 6 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped(G) for every good work. That is a gross misinterpretation of these Scriptures. It ACTUALLY means do not use G-d's name in vain. It has nothing to do with saying you're a Christian. Where did you get that from? You can't speak for G-d. PROVE that He doesn't care by His Word. That's how He speaks to us - by His Word. I proved that He DOES care, by His Word. Show me more than your opinion. Matthew 4 7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, you are not qualified to speak for G-d or to challenge Him to do anything. Dude, HE IS G-D! Can you understand that? No one is judging you. Again, where did you get that from? What I'm saying is that Scripturally, we Christians should NOT perpetuate mocking our Holy and perfect G-d! he is not to be a joke! Any Christian should know this. Galatians 6:6 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Shalom CC, Actually, not. We are not separating faith and works and saying works are nothing. Please, stick to the facts. This thread is examining the notion that one must do good works to MAINTAIN salvation, IOW, that if one does not do good works, they are as lost as if they've never been born-again, which is totally false. So, please don't try to re-state the OP and mis-state it. No one ever said works were nothing. What is being shown is that works do not affect salvation. One cannot be saved by works and one does not need works to maintain salvation. Salvation is a free gift of G-d, not a reward for works. James is saying that man wants to see works. G-d already knows our faith.

Shalom Thoughtful, May I ask in all sincerity, are you serious about this? I am 110% serious about this. God made us in his image. This does not mean only in the physical sense. I'm sure God has a sense of humor, an ability to shrug stuff off, an ability to laugh, to feel anger, to be indifferent. God gave us free will, which means he promised, in giving us free will, to allow us to do certain things. If he were just a fraction as offended as some Christians are by the mockery on TV, he would probably do something to stop us. But he wont. Im sure God could laugh at things like Bruce Almighty, or feel indifferent to things like Sarah Silverman. But he probably doesnt. Why? Because he doesnt care. God is not watching every person on this earth for the sole purpose of seeing whether they're "bad or good". He's not marking down that Sarah Silverman made some awful joke about him. And he's not counting the people who laughed. He Dosent Care. And why should he? He's God. Do you think that he puts in as much concern for televised entertainment as he does for third world issues? No. If some Christians get offended, then they shouldn't watch it. If some don't, then the one's who are offended shouldn't judge them for it. Alas, some Christians wouldn't be able to go on breathing if they couldnt judge SOMEONE for SOMETHING, whatever those two may be. Shalom Thoughtful, I am sorry, but these statements are not Scriptural. Please prove that G-d doesn't CARE about what is said about Him. I believe the Scriptures indicate that G-d hears every word, thought and cares very much what we think about and say about Him. He is HOLY. He isn't a joke. Even His Name is Holy! How dare we, or anyone, treat the Almighty as a joke and think it's OK? Exodus 20 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. 1 Peter 1 4 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

Shalom Alan, And I do disagree with you. I don't believe this thread is edifying now that all the facts are out as to why it was started. The same applies to you. Your opinion is your opinion. You are entitled to it, but you do not have the right to insist others abide by your opinion. G-d. As I said, it is not our job to "bring out what is wrong" in another brother or sister. We are not the Holy Spirit. We should not be playing G-d. He is able to correct and teach His children IF they need correction, He doesn't need our help. It is your opinion that Shiloh needs correction, and I disagree with you. So what? There is nothing sinful about being angry. You are insisting something that is not Scriptural. Anger is not a sin. Shiloh did not sin according to the Scriptures. You cannot insist that Shiloh was wrong according to the Scriptures. He was speaking truth. Ephesians 4:25-27 25Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27and give no opportunity to the devil. To accuse Shiloh of lack of love and all sorts of things because he was righteously angry? Yes, I believe you were wrong and this thread is wrong since you were singling Shiloh out and making this about you and not G-d. Speaking the TRUTH is not "corrupt." Shiloh did not curse or use "corrupt" communication. This verse does not apply. Shiloh did not use filthy language. He spoke the truth. The anger in this verse is UNCONTROLLED anger, anger that rules us. Shiloh is the only one who answer for whether this occurred. It is not something you can answer for him. We are not equipped to judge what is in someone's heart. Only G-d can. This verse does not apply. You are accusing Shiloh of heart motives you do not know and THIS is wrong. Matthew 7: 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother

Shalom Thoughtful, May I ask in all sincerity, are you serious about this?

If it was my land, and I wanted to put up a house, should I be allowed to do it? Of course. That land is Israels - period. You can't "give" land away that does not belong to you. God gave the Jews the land as an everlasting covenant. For those who say the Jews somehow "forfeited" the land when God chastised and scattered them for their disobedience, make God out to be a liar and a covenant breaker. He is not. When God said everlasting, he indeed meant lasting forever. I say to Israel: Build on it to the very borders! Shalom Kari, Preach it sister!! Amen!!

Shalom OneLight, No Brother, if you accuse people of evil heart motives and lack of love because of their words, THIS is sin. It is not "what they are", it is you assuming you know someone's heart when you don't. Again Alan, you are responsible for your own words and your own heart motives, not your neighbor's. Something I am reminded of daily... G-d is G-d and we are not. So many people want to play G-d and point fingers accusing others of sin when they don't see THAT in itself is sin. This thread is about you Alan and what you are comfortable with, not about Jesus or what the Scriptures say and that bothers me. I'm sorry, but you cannot tell people how to feel, what to feel, what to post etc. We can encourage people to live by the Scriptures, but it is wrong to tell people not to get angry. And I'll say it again, anger in itself is NOT a sin. If you see something offensive in a thread, the Scriptures make it clear how to handle that. This thread is not it. I really encourage you to read Matthew 18.