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Hey Thoughtful !! Just read your response and am hoping in all seriousness that you are just trying to get people to react or something. Because if you're not....you are in for a big surprise....maybe. Yes, we ARE walking with targets on our backs. The target says "I am not muslim" You have facts in front of you: The greatest power in the world, had it's very guts knocked out by a terrorist attack. Eliyahuw gave you so many examples. In any court they would be yelling, case closed, guilty as charged. Do you really not see what is going on? I find it totally amazing I hope you continue to be thoughtful (as your name implies) enough to see what is going on.... Meanwhile, blessings to you and yours

I was sitting here by my pc reading your post and the grin on my face was getting so big I thought my face would crack. Thanks so much for giving this whole view another angle. One that speaks to logic. Great going Thanks, and Blessings

Are you talking about the USA?? ROTFLMAO, wellll someone has been blowing smoke up your butt! I don't have, and never have and never will have any type of safe, storage cabinet, or locking device on any of my weapons! A locked gun is useless! a unloaded gun is useless unless you want to club someone to death with it. And what is a firearm license?? Shoot, a license is a document that gives you permission, and we don't issue those here for firearms since their a God given Right! you can't license a God given right! I keep my guns in several locations around the house, fully locked n loaded and ready for use. i raised 6 kids with fully loaded guns, unlocked, fully accessible and never once had any problem with them getting into them. you don't have to lock the guns up to keep kids safe. All you have to do is make your kids mind, and blister their butts when they disobey you. No one will come into my house without my permission and hell will freeze over before i allow a cop in my house to see if i have a safe or not, unless they have a proper warrant that specifically states what they are searching for, and properly executed by a judge. Any other way will be met with serious consequences for the intruders. Whew!! Eliyahu... You sound like you have had bad experience with it all. I can quite understand you're keeping weapons at home, for the reasons mentioned. I live in a country where mere weapons are not even enough! To my mind the state should be using it's energy to keep it's civilians safe rather than go after them with bit's of legel paper. Just my 2 cents (Agorot ) Blessings

Kari19, I just love your way of thinking Over time I used to drive myself nuts with this whirlpool kind of meditating. The bottom line is: We don't know God (in the scientific sense), we believe in Him. When one says "We know that from nothing, nothing comes" or "all things need a cause", it is akin to saying 1+1=2. It isn't a scientific fact, it's an agreement we made, a standard we agree on. Same with our understanding of God. God Himself is out of the debate. He is beyond our understanding. God just IS, whether we know, believe in Him or not. How do I know this? I don't! Our knowledge has no bearing on God's existence. Terribly frustrating, isn't it? Blessings in HIM who exists (and I believe it too) :th_praying:

That's all very well but what about Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the......... ? It somehow doesn't seem to fit in with evolution.....

I voted "don't know" What intrigues me is all the energy we put into "knowing" stuff, scientific or otherwise. Yes I could say the universe IS, and that's a fact. But I don't even know that. For all I know, facts are a matter of opinion True, God didn't give us our heads to use as a paper-weights but when we take human logic (science) as the bottom line, we are missing out on something else, namely, Faith. Oh well, like I said, I don't know...............

I do own a gun and have been thinking about that a lot. I live in Israel so officially there are plenty of excuses to own a gun. What I came up with is a picture of my grandson and me playing when a terrorist attacks us, and the thought of not being able to protect my grandson is enough for me to decide to keep a weapon. I don't like the idea but I like it even less to be helpless where my grandson is concerned What I am waiting for is.... Isa 2:4 He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Blessings

I find my wife to be a much more God abiding person than I am, although I am "the believer in the family" and she isn't. This can only be God's work. Maybe "God abiding" is not the term as she doesn't recognize God. It's obvious, though, that God has her number and her fellowship with other people is something I learn from, daily. She's amusing too. Keeps telling me "I'll look after the house. you look after my head" She is definitely God's gift to me

FYI, that was no accident. You can say that again!!

Hi Vickilynn, I'm off to a kibbutz party but i'll get back to this later Blessings

Hi Vickilynn, Finally caught up with you Thank you for this post. We have been a long time in need of this. It's quite incredible how far one can err in interpreting scripture. The whole of Israel lives under these laws. I have no issue with anyone who wants to keep meat and milk separated but to say it's a sin not to do so is NOT what God told us. Blessings

One thing always gets me. Why is it so important to prove I am right and the debatee(?) is wrong ? I guess I'll have to explain that. I believe in God, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit. Why would I need to go out of my way to make someone else admit to this truth, beyond a certain exchange of views? After all God told us to go and make disciples, not enemies! Sure, I would like the other person to see the above truth. But the fact is... the Truth IS. No matter what we say about it or know about it, the Truth IS and no one is going to change that! There is a difference between witnessing to God's Glory and defending it. God doesn't need attorneys.... Really! He's doing pretty well by Himself What I'm getting at is God allowed me several decades before revealing Himself to me. Part of that is a necessity to my free-choice. Who am I to try and take away that free choice from anyone else? The point is that after a discussion when all is said and done and the discussion turns into a brawl, isn't it time to allow our fellow debater that same free-choice God gave us as a gift? Yes, it's sad when someone refuses to see The Truth or sees a different truth, yet we do need to respect where that person is in his spiritual walk. Blessings to all, believers and non-believers alike

Yep, some go to extreme lengths to keep rabbinic edicts. I would point out that this really applies more to the Orthodox and ultra Orthodox. The conservative and reform Jewish people do not as a rule, go to such lengths. Among the Reformed, they may only be kosher on holidays. Believe it or not but the IDF has separate kitchens in all it's bases, by order! I don't think i'm giving away any military secrets when I say there is the red kitchen and the blue kitchen. Red is for the meat food, cutlery and utensils, while the blue is for the milk kitchen. At least they got the colors right This shows you who is ruling behind the scenes in Israel I used to get the blues when I went to these bases on reserve duty Blessings and more blessings to all

I'm going back to your original question as in all the debating I got lost of the OT. This question must be answered in some kind of context. For me the possibility doesn't exist as I believe in a supernatural being. I believe in God. Yet, when you get into a philosophical discussion (context), then yes, the possibility exists, by the mere fact that you popped the question. If the discussion is not a simple yes or no, but gets into proving one theory or another, then we find ourselves in a place that uses logic to prove it. Science is based on logic and I'm not surprised at the debate going on, as Logic and faith have to many things not in common. One cannot prove God exists, at least not in scientific or logical terms. One cannot prove God doesn't exist as God is beyond logic... is beyond human understanding. So in order to reply to your question I would ask you to explain what the word "possible" means and in what context. Blessings

And what of a Muslim with the same conviction that his faith is the truth? That is a good question , FQ. I find it important to keep challenging my own faith. It gives me a headache but in the end strengthens my faith in God and Yeshua. I don't know if this was your intention, but I thank you for it May God bless you even if you don't believe in Him. He believes in you

I wish I didn't but yes, I do jump to conclusions. At the end of the day I spend a lot of time"un-jumping" them Mainly praying about it

My relationship with God...IS. But then I look at it and see that there are times when it is very one-sided (and it isn't MY side ) So I try and figur out a few things such as.... am I in the right place with this relationship? Am I listening to God or just asking Him for things? Is there something God doesn't like in our relationship? To be honest with you, I don't pray much. Not sure why but I just don't. I know God wants me to pray so my basic prayer is for God to remind me of our relationship. If I'm aware of it I think I would be praying too. God did answer this prayer and He gives me a cue: Whenever I sit in front of my morning cornflakes, I remember Him. Strange but God does have a sense of humor Sometimes I feel disillusioned, lacking in spiritual strength and my faith seems to evaporate...... I have many doubts and questions ... Sometimes I get angry and let Him know it...... Can't hide it from Him anyway But the main thing is, there is definitely a relationship and I thank God for that ! :24:

Hey Carol, My thoughts exactly Blessings

Biblicist here on worthy, posted something that could be a good response to your question.... Try:

Thanks Dave I am moving to another thread on suicide rather than doubling up here It's at Suicide thread Hope I got that right Blessings (mods, as far as I'm concerned you can lock this thread, thanks)

I've just opened a thread on suicide and now have found this one. I think I'll just join this one instead. The reason I opened the thread was because of a suicide attempt by my very good friend. It was touch and go for a while and now We are talking about it. He is not a believer (yet) and we discuss this almost daily now. So I opened that thread to sort-of study the topic and especially see what the Bible has to say on this subject. The following is what I have so far...... I know that suicide is a controversial issue even amongst believers. The Bible can be understood in various ways regarding this issue. My starting point was this verse......Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder. " But what is murder? what is the difference between murder and killing? We kill plants and animals for food. Where do we draw the line, or rather, where does scripture draw the line? Is there a difference between killing someone and killing oneself? Suicide is not a new idea. The Bible records seven suicides Jdg 9:52-54 Where Abimelech said: "Draw your sword and kill me, lest they say of me, 'A woman killed him.'" Jdg 16:25-30 Where Samson killed more Philistines in his death than he had killed during his life. 1Sa 31:4-5 Where King Saul took his own sword and fell upon it, and when his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him. 2Sa 17:23 Where Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, and hanged himself 1Ki 16:15-20 Where Zimri, king of Tirtzah, saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king's house and burned the king's house over him with fire and died Mat 27:3-5 Judas, who betrayed Yeshua, threw down the pieces of silver into the temple, departed, and went and hanged himself. Did all these people, kings and prophets mostly anointed by God, go to hell for committing suicide? What does scripture say of merciful killing? Is there such a thing? Love your neighbor as yourself..... what if I hate myself? Is this "love" relative or absolute? I don't have any clear cut answers and scripture comes with messages that are confusing..... I would like to have God's answers so that I can pass them on to my friend Blessings

Thanks Erich This has turned out to be quite a study for me It seems to be a rather complex topic. I've been to several sites and they don't exactly agree with each other. I guess I will have to let the Spirit lead me on this (which would be the best way anyway.... ) Blessings

I know that suicide is a controversial issue even amongst believers. The Bible can be understood in various ways regarding this issue. I started studying this topic after my friends attempt to take his own life, to have answers to the "why"s of taking his life. I see only one person touched this subject so I will bring what I have found so far:- (this was written in another thread. Obviously many touched this topic here) It could be said that scripture is against suicide..... 1 Cor 6:20 "You are not your own, you are bought with a price..." and also..... Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder. " But what is murder? what is the difference between murder and killing? We kill plants and animals for food. Where do we draw the line, or rather, where does scripture draw the line? Suicide is not a new idea. The Bible records seven suicides. What drives people to suicide? Guilt, mental illness, depression, demonic possession, exhaustion, physical pain, revenge (Samson), stress, rejection, pride, shame, disgrace, fear, and allow me to add my own NGE (Not Good Enough) Jdg 9:52 And Abimelech came to the tower and fought against it and drew near to the door of the tower to burn it with fire. Jdg 9:53 And a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head and crushed his skull. Jdg 9:54 Then he called quickly to the young man his armor-bearer and said to him, "Draw your sword and kill me, lest they say of me, 'A woman killed him.'" And his young man thrust him through, and he died. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jdg 16:25 And when their hearts were merry, they said, "Call Samson, that he may entertain us." So they called Samson out of the prison, and he entertained them. They made him stand between the pillars. Jdg 16:26 And Samson said to the young man who held him by the hand, "Let me feel the pillars on which the house rests, that I may lean against them." Jdg 16:27 Now the house was full of men and women. All the lords of the Philistines were there, and on the roof there were about 3,000 men and women, who looked on while Samson entertained. Jdg 16:28 Then Samson called to the LORD and said, "O Lord GOD, please remember me and please strengthen me only this once, O God, that I may be avenged on the Philistines for my two eyes." Jdg 16:29 And Samson grasped the two middle pillars on which the house rested, and he leaned his weight against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other. Jdg 16:30 And Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines." Then he bowed with all his strength, and the house fell upon the lords and upon all the people who were in it. So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he had killed during his life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Sa 31:4 Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and mis-treat me." But his armor-bearer would not, for he feared greatly. Therefore Saul took his own sword and fell upon it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Sa 31:5 And when his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2Sa 17:23 When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order and hanged himself, and he died and was buried in the tomb of his father. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Ki 16:15 In the twenty-seventh year of Asa king of Judah, Zimri reigned seven days in Tirzah. Now the troops were encamped against Gibbethon, which belonged to the Philistines, 1Ki 16:16 and the troops who were encamped heard it said, "Zimri has conspired, and he has killed the king." Therefore all Israel made Omri, the commander of the army, king over Israel that day in the camp. 1Ki 16:17 So Omri went up from Gibbethon, and all Israel with him, and they besieged Tirzah. 1Ki 16:18 And when Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king's house and burned the king's house over him with fire and died, 1Ki 16:19 because of his sins that he committed, doing evil in the sight of the LORD, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and for his sin which he committed, making Israel to sin. 1Ki 16:20 Now the rest of the acts of Zimri, and the conspiracy that he made, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mat 27:3 Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, Mat 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." Mat 27:5 And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, this is quite a bit for one post so i'll stop here for now. I would appreciate your input on this subject Blessings

Ritchie I can really understand your situation in this forum. You are right in not accepting what others tell you the truth is, including me. Yes I do see it the way most see it in this thread. I do differ with you on this issue. Yet I agree with you searching for THE TRUTH. It feels good to know you are honestly searching for it. What anyone here knows could be the truth but you must hear it from the spirit. I have hope you will find the TRUTH about homosexuality. I hope you see that although most disagree with you here, they are doing it from a place of respect and love for you as a brother in Yeshua. Please remember this when/if you go elsewhere. Finding the truth is a long hard journey and you are feeling just how hard it can be. Blessings to you brother Richie. Don't take anyone's word as the gospel but please DO listen to the holy spirit. He should be your only guide. May God bless you in your search and may He bring you to the safe shores of TRUTH. Oh, I find that sometimes God talks through people and they actually do speak the truth. Don't reject that possibility. Blessings

This part of your post caught my eye for some reason..... Yeshua said He didn't come to do away with the Law but to fulfill it. When we are saved we are free from the Law. This does not mean that we can now kill, steal and conduct an adulterous life. It means we are not under the death penalty for sin. We all sin and yet have eternal life through being redeemed by the amazing sacrifice of Yeshua's life. The law applies to anyone who is under the law, that is, anyone who is NOT saved. IMHO Blessings I believe many laws were done away with. We each understand the bible differently. From my reading and studying the bible I come to believe that homosexuality is not a sin. I know allot of people dont agree and I have no problem with that. I dont know whay people keep telling me THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. and they tell me how it is. Why must we debate. Now I agree with dialogue. Dialogue is stating what you believe or what you believe scripture to say. Debate is saying THIS IS THE WAY IT IS and it ARGUES instead of SHARES... I hope that makes sence. Yes I absolutely agree with you: We should be sharing and discussing, NOT arguing. The whole topic of homosexuality is not clear for me and so I am now studying it through various resources. I agree that we each understand the bible differently. The way I understand it, there is ONE TRUTH, which I am not clear about at many points. That is why I find the need to discuss and study. I find this discussion here, for instance, very educating, whether I agree or not with opinions expressed here. I have studied with Chabad (Orthodox Jews) and with Jehovah's witnesses and find it only strengthens the way I see Truth. On this note I must thank you for being here at all. It takes courage to be open about controversial issues. I think that now we can agree or disagree in a peaceful manner, no? Blessings