OneLight

So, let's see if I am understand your theory correctly. According to you, Jesus returns, destroys His enemies, then returns to heaven to leave the Jewish nation to fend for themselves as He waits for Satan to try again?

Show me in scripture where it says this reign will be in the spirit realm only. You can't because it doesn't. Both sides of the discussion use their theology due to scripture being silent on the matter ... meaning nobody knows for sure what scripture is saying about this time. Don't be deceived by your own theology as if it were scripture.

I know you've read Revelation 19:11 since you did reference Revelation 19:20. Have you bothered to read on to Revelation 20:6 where it clearly states His thousand year reign, or are you believing Jesus reigns from heaven and ignores what is happening of the earth while Satan is bound in the bottomless pit? What would be the reason for those who were beheaded to reign with him if it were not over men?

We do read how nature will change in both Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 65, but are they the same times? In Isaiah 11 you read how the Gentiles will seek Christ. That is not the same as when we are resurrected and there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles, male of female, etc, as we are all one in Christ. Though the translators do reference the wording in both chapters, this does not mean they are of the same time frame because in Isaiah 65, it speaks about what it will be like after the new heavens and new earth are created. Isaiah 65:17-25 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them. It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the Lord.

When Jesus returns, He returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, bring His judgment and Rule with Him. The second He returns all is taking place. There is no pause in anything as He sets up His kingdom. That is mans theory because that is how man would have to accomplish such a task, taking time to go from war to rule. Here is what scripture tells us in Revelation 19:11-16. Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. You will not find a pause in scripture where Jesus needs to set up His kingdom.

Yes, we do need to allow scripture to speak for itself, while not amending scripture with our personal theology when it does not. That's when feelings and mans theology comes into play. When you mention Revelation 20:4, you include "unfaithful believers". Why are you including such a group when discussing what I said as I never once used such terminology? You are confusing me, as if adding to my words something I never said or indicated. I sure do hope this is not the case, but perhaps a misunderstanding. All who will reign with Christ were faithful unto death. So, according to what you take from scripture, the reign of Christ is fruitless, nobody get saved in 1000 years? Why will the Father, who sent His Son to die for our sins, not able to reach anyone in 1000 years? When one eliminates the purpose of salvation they eliminate the reason Christ came. The picture you paint is an ugly one where nobody is ever happy again, which I cannot agree with. The rapture happens before His return, but is not written in such a way that states once that happens there is not going to be anyone saved. That, my friend, is faulty logic as it goes against everything God is. Your reference to Revelation 16 is still within this time frame, before Christ returns. It does not refer to what will take place during the millennium, and should not be applied to the millennium. There is nothing ever written that claims no new babies will be born during the millennium either, that only those who survived the tribulation will be the only people alive for 1000 years, though there is a group that does teach this falsely. Not everyone who lives during the millennium will be saved and not all nations will ahead to how Jesus reigns. They reject Him and His ways, which is why Satan can muster such a large group when he is released from the bottomless pit for a season, but that does not mean some will follow Jesus. You =make it an all or nothing, black and while picture, when we are not told one way or another what will actually take place. That is the reason why it still remains a question for me as scripture is silent.

1 Corinthians 15:23 has nothing to do with the 1000 year reign, but His second coming. The two events are separate. You will notice in the fullness of that passage, the millennium is not even mention. In fact, the 1000 years is skipped over, meaning this is not about that time frame at all, but the life in Christ we have been given and how it will all become complete after Death and Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire, when everything is turned over to the Father. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. As for 2 Timothy 2:12, Paul is teaching about salvation, not the 1000 year reign. The same goes for Romans 8:17. Revelation 20:4-10 speaks about a very specific time and people. While reading and discussing the book of Revelation, we need to first most keep this verse in mind ... Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. There is always room for the imagination to wander when we contemplate prophecy, but don't threat your imagination as truth, but just speculation, which it is.

The Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints (Only) > The Millennial Kingdom (Includes unbelievers who make it alive through the tribulation) > The Great White Throne Judgement (Only for the dead). You quote my post, yet you do not speak to the questions I raised. Care to try again?

Let's take a look. We see in the scripture below that the only ones who will reign with Christ for the 1000 years are those who were beheaded for not following the beast. No mention of anyone else reigning with Christ during that time, but then, when Satan attacks after being bound for the 1000 years, we read about the saints also. Where did these saints come from if they are not new believers? Revelation 20:4-10 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. I underlined the verses that speak of the priests, saints and the beloved city. I just can't fathom how, over a period of 1000 years, nobody will turn to follow Christ. If you consider during what stage of the process this is talking about, it may become clearer. This is when Christ returns and defeats the Beast and his armies. Through this judgment, it is clear He is judging and ruling with a rod of iron. Not sure why you would include all resurrected believers in your post, as the only resurrected believers spoken of during the millennium are those who were killed for not following the beast, nor took his mark. I've heard some say that there will be no death or newborns during the millennium. Are you suggesting the same, as I don't believe this is true. I also reject the possibility that nobody will accept Jesus during this time. This is why I see the probability that more will be going on than what is in scripture when it comes to believers after the rapture.

Here's something I've wondered over the years. After the rapture, I believe there will be many who do come to Christ between the rapture and the GWT Judgment. What is said about them in scripture? When will they be judged or receive their glorified bodies? I don't believe all Christians will be killed by Satan before Jesus return, so what about them? Will they be any who become His during the millennium? If so, what about them? Scripture is silent on this, so I wonder if we also should accept that not all questions have answers in scripture?

Back in the 70's, when I was in the Navy, I was on the USS Intrepid. HS-1 was the squadron I was attached to. Our squadron was based out of Quonset Point, Rhode Island, and our duty was to patrol the Atlantic coast for Russian subs, so this news is not really new news. Russia has had subs off our coasts many many times ... but the public was never informed about them.

WND stands for World Net Daily. MSM stands for Main Stream Media. It wold be nice to see the full names when using acronyms for those who do not know, like WND (World Net Daily).

Good for Vicky! The problem is, VT is a state that favors the LGBTQ+++ agenda over just about anything else. Through the rolling hills of VT, you will come across two distinct cultures, the old Vermonters, who value God's direction, and the gay community, who hates God's directions. If the two collide, and they often do, the LGBTQ+++ will win almost 100% of the time. VT is very progressive in nature, which is really sad to me as it is such a beautiful country side, but the festering sin the lays under it's beauty is rotting the state from the inside out.

@FJK ... sounds like you could use a little study about a doctrinal battle that has been going on for a very long time, Calvinism vs. Arminianism. As for predestination, you should study Romans 8.

I think the word you are alluding to is surrender. We need to surrender to His will in everything, which I agree with 110%. Any problem would never arise from Him, but from us, trying to "remember" to surrender when we have been taught all our lives to resolve our own issues. It is hard to always humble ourselves in every situation as our brains do not function that way. Beautiful goal though!

They thought they had it all - ego & pride, and no need for anything - arrogance.

A true picture of both pride and arrogance. Revelation 3:14-22 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ” If we find pride, ego or arrogance in our lives, we are to repent.

When Jesus sat with the tax collectors and sinners, the Pharisees were quick to point out what they saw as wrong, and Jesus replied ... “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” (Luke 5:31-32) If there are no sinners among us, what then are we to do but become puffed up? What did Jesus tell us all to do? "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Find sinners, disciple them, baptize them and teach them. If revivals do not attract sinners, then it is not a revival.

Junk food and pure laziness ... kids don't even go out to play anymore! Their exercise is in their thumbs as they play on the thin small box in their hands.

It's great to have new members join! You have so much you can share with us, probably more than you realize. Everyone has a testimony, a true story to tell about how God reached each of us personally. I sure do hope you feel welcomed and comfortable here!

What doesn't sit right in me is how they (college) put an end date to what God was doing. If anything, it should of been moved and allowed to continue until the end of His movement.

I just wanted to reach out and say Welcome to Worthy, even if you decide not to join us. I know you are here looking for something and I pray you find it in Jesus. With all that is happening in this world, both good and bad, we all come to a time where we seek answers. Feel free to join, even if it's to ask one question ... many of us are here to help you find the truth you are looking for. God Bless, Alan

Yup, and the difference between a God led authority and a man led authority. This could be why I've noticed a huge surge in the number of guests reading the forums. Usually there is around 25 to 40 (on a good day). Right now there is 77. Yesterday when I looked there was around 100 guests. They are looking for something ...

I used to be confused about this very thing, until I realized that Martha, or anyone at that time, had to knowledge we have due to the NT. All they had were OT references and the last day is said to be when the dead will rise. It's not that there is a contradiction within scripture, just that we were taught much more about the end times than what they were.

This is where I have concerns. Look at how many cult leaders that came out of the church that had nobody holding them accountable. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite and David Burg just to name a few who had nobody holding them accountable - they were without any human leaders. God set up authorities in the body for a good reason.