Hawkeye

I could say the same thing.

Death is final. You don't remain conscious after death...

No matter what scripture I give you, you reject it. And that's OK we're both still Christians and going to heaven. this isn't a divisive salvation an issue. It changes nothing about evangelism.

http://www.rethinkinghell.com/explore/?doc

Death is final. Yes ya death cease to exist.

Who says anyone immediately ceases to exist and isn't accountable??

This ^

John 3:16, Romans 6:23

Lots. Read Waffles post

I'm limited in fully replying at work. I plan on a longer more indepth post later

Nobody says the perishing will be immediate. Likewise, the ceasing to exist is forever, i.e. You die and will never be risen. How long that death takes and how painful it is lies in Gods hands. There is not a single reference in scripture that shows a non believer living forever. in reality there is a parallel. Take Romans 6:23 death! John 3:16? perish! If eternal life is literal then how ca. Death be figurative in the same sentence? It's a logical fallacy.

Did Jesus take our punishment? Yes! If our punishment is everlasting torment for not trusting in Jesus, then why is he not currently burning for eternity?

Got it

modifued same term as Evangelical Conditionalism. Check out the site and they have a FB group feel free to pm me

Hey Opy, It seems you are trying to argue for a Universalism standpoint of hell. This is biblically inaccurate, the Bible is very clear that at the final judgement those who were not found in the Lamb's book of life go to perish, destruction, hell. It's important to notice there are 2 words in the original language that are both translated to "hell". The first is Hades/Sheol. This simply means "the grave". In context, it is not fire/brimstone etc. It's the grave/underworld. The second word is Gehenna, which is the lake of fire you speak of. I lean toward the stance that hell is not eternal conscious torment, as I lean more toward Modified Annihalationism. (I have plenty of reasons & scripture to back it up, but this is not a debate thread for it), but it seems that the Great white throne judgement passage in Revelation is crystal clear- if you do not accept Christ (having your name written in the lamb's book of life). Then you are sent to said lake of fire (Gehenna). Eternal life is not given to non-believers, it is a gift for believers as referenced in Romans 3:23, John 3:16, John 5:24. Non believers are given death (perish, cease to exist etc). Anyway, hope it helped. I have found the site "Rethinking Hell" to be very helpful and you may check it out- but I don't see anything in scripture pointing to Universalism. P.S I'm not responding to any debates on Conditionlism vs Traditionalism not in this thread

I would request that an admin lock the post for you!

Actually, God said that. Galations 6:10- Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Wow. you totally missed about half of what I said. never said be silly about it I never said be naïve, is o said ultimately we listen to the Holy Spirit. Our church has done similar things, such as the blessing box that we have outside on the front lawn. It's filled with food and hygiene items with a sign that says take what you need be blessed so people can take things when they need to. they don't have to listen to the sermon, or fill out an application, or show income statements or any of that nonsense just to get some food. i'm not advocating that we go stand on the street corner in and out hundred dollar bills, we need to listen to the Holy Spirit urging in whatever way he would have us handle things. But the fact that we might get taken advantage of does not change the command of Christ

Hi everyone, so I wanted to open a discussion (this is not meant to ruffle feathers or stir up controversy.. let's just talk about it) I know there are 2 sides to this with scripture to backup both. However, over the years I have changed my views on some of these things. What follows are my thoughts based on what I (currently) interpret scripture as meaning. When we think of giving, beneveloence and charity many things come to mind. Maybe you were just asked to donate to a worthy cause, maybe you were in the Exxon parking lot and somebody asked you for money for gas. Whatever the case may be, there are likely times when you have felt compelled to give and times you haven’t. The Bible is very clear on giving, though probably not in the way people would prefer. The Oxford Dictionary defines radical as “very different from the usual or traditional” So Radical Benevolence (giving money and other items to help people) would be a type of benevolence (and ultimately love) that is so different you would be taken back, but please hear me out. THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF BENEVOLENCE When an individual asks for help, you want to help them. Christians are compelled through various commands in The Bible to help one another. How familiar is the following scenario in your local church group of believers: Person Seeking Help: (PSH) *Goes to the church office*. “I need some money for gas/food/rent/etc…” Pastor/Other Person usually in charge of finances: Our church policy says that we don’t give out cash, but if you follow me to a gas station I will fill your tank/call your landlord and pay your rent/take you to the grocery store etc… THE NEW VIEW When an individual asks for help, the radical view shows that the following scenario from above would have been handled much differently. PSH: *goes to the church office*. “I need some money for xyz”. Other Person: Okay. Here, take this and be blessed, it’s free with no strings attached. Have a good day and God Bless you Whoa! so we’re just supposed to give them money? What about if they mis use it or abuse it, or aren’t that needy to begin with and just want to scam me? Those are some great questions. I’m going to try and answer them below. What if they misuse the money? So what? We are called to judge those inside the church, not outside (What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? 1 Cor. 5:12) When it gets to the point that Christians are determining whether or not somebody is worthy of our help it is indeed a sad day in Christiandom. All throughout scripture we are compelled to give, not only cheerfully but often. Some key scriptures: Matthew 5:42- Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Duet 5:9-11- You shall give to him [your brother] freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’ Hebrews 13:16- And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 1 John 3:17-18 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. If they misuse it, ultimately that is between them and God. Specifically I want to point out that 1 John 3:17-18 (Referenced above) uses helping others and meeting their needs as one criteria that you love God. If you love God, then you will love people and loving people means helping and meeting a need without strings attached. 2) What about my needs? God says he will supply all of our needs (Philippians 4:19) so an answer to this question starts with, trusting God to supply your needs as he promises. Some key scriptures: Isaiah 58:10-11 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday. 11 The LORD will guide you always; he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose waters never fail. Phil 2:3-4 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others. The verse in Isaiah tells us clearly that if we help the hungry and oppressed, then he will satisfy our needs. This is yet another promise that God will meet your needs if you follow what he commands. 3) What about those inside the church, should we not help them first? The Bible tells us to help those who are among us, but the Bible also tells us: Romans 12:13-14 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Galations 6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Let do good to ALL PEOPLE. It goes on to say especially to those in the household of faith, but never exempts us from helping others. If it comes down to helping 2 people, one is in the household of faith and one isn’t- then you need to listen to the Holy Spirit (which you should be doing anyway). PROMISES Did you know that God gives us promises in The Bible if we do what he says and help others? Sure he does, lots of them. Here are a few: He says we will be blessed as the giver than receiver… (Acts 20:35) We will be rewarded (though not necc. on earth) … Proverbs 19:17 “Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done.” 4) Is there a limit? What about enabling? This is a valid point and one we need to address. Enabling is when you enable a person to continue in a destructive lifestyle or they are not doing anything on their own. The Bible tells us that if a man does not work, he should not eat (2 Thess 3:10). There comes a time when you may have to say “no” or refer them. However…. You can’t know this on a first meeting. When we presume we know that they can’t be trusted, this is sending an unloving message. Once you have helped them and get to know them, then there is room for deeper discipleship and accountability, but it you start out of the gate with fighting and distrust- you aren’t going to win them to Christ. The world needs to see a loving picture of trust, this comes through us. How can we expect them to trust Christ if we show them no trust from the beginning? FINAL THOUGHTS, The how & why? We should give cheerfully (2 For 9:7) “For God loves a cheerful giver” and secretly (Matthew 6:3-4)- Do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. We give because of love (1 John 4:7-8)

I'm not Saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying a lot of parents make that claim and a lot of people make that claim when a true gluten allergy is rare. I was only making the point that parents claim a lot of things and it's not out of the ordinary for them to claim a vaccine was at fault when it could easily be something else or nothing at all. The number is increasing I think because it's being diagnosed more for some reason.

Parents claim a lot of things(gluten allergy anyone) doesn't make it true.

I have had similar conversations when talking about the false doctrine of a well know white suit wearing "faith healer". People get very die hard and want to defend and back up their leaders, even when they are in the wrong or teaching false doctrine. The problem comes that this verse is used out of context. I have noticed this phrase being used a lot in the pentecostal level of things, when people go to defend their heroes (Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, T.D Jakes, et, al) And it would indicate in looking at the original language, it is a physical touch (i.e pushing, hitting, punching, killing, etc...) To touch not his anointed, we have to look at the context of the verse leading up to it. It would indicate it refers to Israel and his chosen people, not name-it-claim-it kooks. It wasn't meant as a promise to believers today (much in the same way, Jeremiah 29:11 is misused). However, that being said- There is a difference between clearly stating why something is a false doctrine (i.e- The Bible says this, but televangelist XYZ says this, which contradicts the Bible). And just slandering to insult and be rude or cut down. Our talk should still be edifying, and if we can give constructive criticism and examples of where the false doctrine lies, specifically, we have a more credible story.

I don't even think we have a full grasp of true persecution in the US. Our lives are not endanger for worshipping or sharing the gospel. Not true in many countries around the world. We tend to get the "persecution" complex, where any tiny thing is turned into some wile of Satan meant to be an attack. So you got asked to move your Bible study group inside away from where it was blocking a fire exit? You got asked to not wear a necklace of any sort, but because it was against dress code, yet it was a cross so you scream persecution. Why? These are just a few examples I have seen over the years in the news. Our church group does a lot of work in Haiti and countries abroad. I have missionary friends in China, and they are in fear of arrest every time they meet for church. That is persecution in the truest sense. When they have to meet in secret, and teach others about Christ in secret- and even have Bibles with a fake front such as a cookbook cover, that's persecution. We tend to think in the US that if somebody says any little thing about our Faith, we run and hide and cry persecution. If a student is asked to not read his or her Bible during instructional time, they scream persecution. It's all a bit much, when our brothers and sisters in Christ are literally fighting for their life every time they meet with other believers. At least as of yet, that is not a legitimate concern in the US. We're blessed

NASB hands down.

Our companions benefit too!! Close parking when they are with us, skipping lines at rides, etc.