wingnut-

Having gone through a divorce myself, with a daughter the same age, I can tell you now that you cannot abandon her. Your daughter needs you, and your new wife needs to come to terms with that or she should have never married you in the first place. Counseling may be your only option here, leaving your child hanging out to dry should not be an option at all.

Amen

September 11, actually. Exactly two Shemitahs after the 9/11 judgment, which also plays a role in all of this. And yes, we're now in the seventh Shemitah. It's a cliche to say, but it's the truth. There are no coincidences in the things of God. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, brother! God bless you! The 11th, that makes sense, I wasn't positive about the date, but knew I was in the ballpark, thanks for the information, God bless you too.

Hey keith, Not sure I am going to be much help, but I do have something to add as far as the Shemitah. As I understand it, this will be the 7th Shemitah since the resurrection, which I don't think is a mere coincidence, and it begins Sept. 13th of this year if I am not mistaken. Historically, something significant has always occurred on these years, so all of these things added together indicate to me that we should expect some fireworks in the near future. God bless you.

I wouldn't say easily lol. It took me many years to forgive my ex-wife, but the lesson I learned from that forgiveness helps me to understand that I need to apply that across the board. I still have to bring that to mind when people wrong me, trust me, it is not immediate. I am my own worst enemy.

Hello standing alone, We are all works in progress, clay in the potter's hands. It can be difficult to trust or love others when we have been wounded by people. I think that for me personally I have found that forgiveness is found at the heart of the problem. Once I was able to forgive those who have done me wrong, healing begins, and from that point, hope and love can be restored. God bless you.

I agree with ncn, everything is a gift from God, including food. When someone gives you a gift, it is customary to say thank you.

Hello again sister, I apologize if I am coming across as argumentative, that is not my intention. I have a lot of respect for your passion and insight, and as I said, there was a time when I entertained some of what you suggest. My only wish here is to clarify what is true and what is not so that you and everyone else can see the issues with the suggestion. Sorry if I overwhelmed you with my posts, sometimes I get going and just can't stop lol. So let's just examine this one verse again, because I think it is important to take in precisely what is said here. Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. Hath taken and hath cast out are both past tense, as in, these things have already been done. While these are still future events, within the specific future event being discussed, those future events have already taken place. If these were still future events, they would state I shalt take away thy judgements, and I shalt cast out thine enemy. Hath means already done. When the verse concludes with thou shalt not see evil any more, it means from that point on. This is a result of the other things having taken place already. The verse concludes by stating the Lord is now in their midst, and they will not see evil anymore. All of this is true because the judgements are already taken away, and the enemy is already cast out. The final battle has already taken place in order for the enemy to be cast out, the enemy is Satan, and he is cast into the lake of fire following that battle. Zechariah 14:2 makes it clear that the earthly city of Jerusalem is not safe, half of those within the city are overtaken, there is only one possibility here. The Jerusalem Zephaniah is referencing in this future event is the New Jerusalem, where we see the Lord is in our midst, and evil has been forever vanquished. God bless you.

Amen brother

Hello again sister, The translation I posted is the ESV, a very good and literal translation that a vast majority of christians now accept as one of the better modern translations. Personally I use the KJV for reading, so my understanding comes from the version of your preference, and those verses say the same thing. What happens often when using an extinct language is confusion, which is why I post a modern translation for others reading. Old english is not that much different than any foreign language, nouns and verbs are often reversed in phrasing, and this will lead to the opposite conclusion of what is said. I would suggest reading that passage over again, since we both come to the same conclusion regarding it, how can one of us have it backwards lol. As for the other things I mentioned, let's just simplify this down to two major problems. Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. Right here they are told they will not see evil any more. How then can Satan return at the end of the millenium for the final battle, surround Jerusalem with all his wicked followers, and this be true? The simple answer is it cannot. Your suggestion that this is during the millenium is a direct contradiction to what will take place at the very end of the millenium. Satan is the very essence of evil, therefore this can only be after his destruction, post-millenium. There is no confusing this with the time of Jacob's trouble, or any other time. Evil is not done away with until the end of the millenium. God cannot lie, so when He says they will not see evil anymore, Satan cannot show up at their doorstep with an army. Our conclusions have to take all of scripture into account, and on this basis alone your theory is shown to be impossible. Zephaniah 3:13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Zephaniah clearly states these attributes in regards to the remnant of Israel, no one else. Nor is there any other group in all of scripture that these things are attributed to except for the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation. John is simply repeating what Zephaniah prophesied long before, first by directly telling us that the 144,000 come from the specific tribes of the Israelites, and secondly by telling us they have these same unique characteristics. I understand it dispels your theory, but it is undeniable proof of scripture confirming scripture. Chapter 3 of Zephaniah is all speaking to the future of Jerusalem, and each verse gives clear information that this is post-millenium, repeatedly. I once held thoughts similar to what you are proposing, and I am just showing you why I dismissed them, scripturally. Here is some more confirmation to what I am saying, first in regards to when the Lord takes part in gathering the nations. Zechariah 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. This is why they would be afraid, this is what happens when the Lord gathers the nations to Jerusalem. Note the past tense of the verb Zephaniah used. Zephaniah 3:6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant. Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. Keep in mind that this is a prophecy, yet these things are said clearly in the past tense, meaning they have already occurred within this future event. And the key in all of this taking place after the millenium is not questionable, one cannot discount what takes place at the very end of the millenium. Revelation 20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. Either scripture is true, or your theory is true, that is for you to decide. For me, what you present is irreconcilable to what is written. God bless you.

Hey jony, moses had an issue with being shy as well. Maybe you should read over about him and gain some strength and confidence. As far as girls go, no need to be shy. Just think of it this way, the worst thing that can happen when you approach a girl is that she says she is not interested, and then you are no worse off than where you started. Will pray for you, God bless.

Hello oakwood, Perhaps someone may add to that thought, I can't say I've heard that myself, as far as the Tel-Aviv part. In one of the commentaries I read, it was suggested that they will not recognize their identity until the end as well, so apparently this is not a lone opinion. We'll see if anyone has more to add in that regard. Thanks for your input, God bless you.

Hey shiloh, Thanks for the response. I also lean toward the same thoughts you shared in regards to Dan being the first to bring idolatry into Israel, as far as scripture goes it appears to be the best explanation. I would also add though, that Dan could possibly be absent because they never claimed their rightful inheritance, which was originally the land of Philistia at the southwestern area of the promised land. Instead they settled in the far north, which is odd considering that they were originally supposed to be the protectors of Israel, or the warrior tribe. Yet they could not claim their own inheritance from the Philistines, which seems to indicate a lack of trust in God on their part. Of course that is supposition on my part, but it seems a reasonable possibility as well. Also I wanted to point out that Ephraim is not mentioned in Revelation either, Joseph and Manasseh are however. Joseph was split into Ephraim and Manasseh I thought, so that seems somewhat odd to me as well. In regards to the Levites, they were not given their own land, they were distributed throughout the other tribes, so it makes sense that in the re-allotment they would be, making 13 tribes instead of 12 with Joseph being split into two. I wonder if maybe Dan is not sealed because they will possibly end up fighting in the end times? Dan is definitely in the re-allotment, but I wonder if that isn't related to those from the past in regards to Dan, and not necessarily those from the present or future. Thanks for your thoughts on this, the idolatry issue seems to be sound reasoning, most of the commentaries I've read see it that way as well as you and I. So it seems to be a popular conclusion, and perhaps right on the money. God bless you.

You have Jesus dear sister kay, which means you have everything.

Hello again sister, There are several issues with your assertion this takes place during the millenium. I will offer some of these examples from the verses you posted and then explain the problem I see. Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore wait for me,” declares the Lord, “for the day I will stand up to testify. I have decided to assemble the nations, to gather the kingdoms and to pour out my wrath on them— all my fierce anger. The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger. First from this verse, when does the Lord gather all the nations? The final battle. When will the whole world be consumed by fire? The final battle. That would be post-millenium, when Satan is destroyed. Zephaniah 3:13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” In this verse, note the first segment in italics and compare this to what is said in the passage that follows from Revelation 14 which I will post below. The underlined passage at the conclusion of this verse states that no one will make them afraid. How can this be during the millenium then? The final battle would still be yet to come, when Jerusalem is surrounded by an army beyond counting. Not possible for this to take place until post-millenium. Revelation 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless. The characteristics of the 144,000 are directly attributed to the remnant of Israel right here, no lies, they are blameless, the exact thing Zephaniah said in the previous verse. There is no separating the remnant from the 144,000, this is scripture confirming scripture. Zephaniah 3:15 The Lord has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The Lord, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm. Again in this verse we see specifically that they will never fear harm again, which means this cannot be the millenium because the final battle where Satan and his armies surround Jerusalem would still be to come. The translation you posted states, never again will they see evil, impossible if Satan is yet to bring the final battle to Jerusalem. This is post-millenium. Zephaniah 3:18 “I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you. This verse makes it clear that there will never again be animal sacrifices. They are a burden and reproach, referencing the appointed festivals. People who want them are removed. The offering that Isaiah speaks of in the final verse you posted is not speaking of animal sacrifice, Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, God does not want or accept this anymore, not since the resurrection of Jesus. The clean vessel that they bring will be themselves, purified by the blood of the Lamb. The bottom line here is this, the 144,000 are the remnant spoken of by the prophets, and this is all speaking to post-millenium time. God bless you.

welcome to worthy

Hello all, I am curious as to any input people might have in regards to this tribe as far as why they are not listed amongst the 144,000 in the book of Revelation. I am not looking for an eschatology debate on this, just wondering if there is something in the historical past that would explain this. I can't find anything in scripture specifically, although I have researched and read some commentaries about it. None of them really offer a satisfactory answer though, mostly it is speculation. Perhaps this is a question that can only be answered with speculation, but that is why I am asking for input. Here is the passage from Revelation in question, thanks in advance. Revelation 7:5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

i think population has a lot to do with that, countries like the usa have way more people than sweden

lol i knew you would like it

Hello sister, I wanted to share this with you in regards to your conclusions regarding the remnant and the 144,000. Just something for you to consider, I will just post a small portion, but recommend reading the entire chapter. Zephaniah 3:11 On that day you, Jerusalem, will not be put to shame for all the wrongs you have done to me, because I will remove from you your arrogant boasters. Never again will you be haughty on my holy hill. 12 But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the Lord. 13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.”

Matt. 25:10 “And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." The Church is the virgin Bride of Christ, and the wedding takes place in heaven right after the Rapture of the Church. This prophecy shows that the events of the coming of the Bridegroom for his Bride follows the same course of events as took place in a traditional Jewish wedding. The bridegroom came suddenly, took his bride to his father's house, and consummated the wedding there. Amen! I suspect we don't agree on when the wedding takes place, because I see that it takes place at the end.

I am sure for many that is a valid reason, but to me personally if God wishes to change my heart regarding a matter, He does so through His Word or when I am praying. Both of those things I generally do alone, even the sermons from church I reflect on afterward. I learned many years ago that no matter who is giving me their understanding of scripture as to how they see it, doesn't make them right. I rely on the Lord for my understanding in that regard. I have a heart for others, so I just want to make that clear. However, my heart is for those who are unbelievers moreso than those within the church itself, they seem to be the ones most in need of help. That isn't to say I don't care about my brothers and sisters as well, because I do very much. I guess my fellowship is done in smaller groups more easily than I feel comfortable with doing in a church as large as the one I attend.

William butting in here to respond to the question. Consider Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. When Jesus comes in the clouds to take up his elect, every eye will witness his coming, believer and unbeliever alike. "Those who are ready" -- the wise virgins, Matt. 25:10 -- will go with him. Everyone else, including the foolish virgins who believe in him, will not. On this day, many others besides the foolish virgins shall come to believe in him: Zech. 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn." So there will still be plenty of believers on earth after the Rapture of the elect. However, they will have to be purged during "the time of Jacob's trouble," Jer. 30:7; because all the believers who remain will be those who, for one reason or another, were too carnal to enter the Presence, and will have to be brought to greater faith in, and obedience to, God's Word. Considering the virgins from the parables are judged based on their works, I don't see how you can include them in the rapture. Believers who are raptured will not face judgement, that kinda excludes those from the parables in Matthew 25.

I go to church to worship Him, that is my only reason.

The thought of Carter still makes me grimace.