Yahsway

Massorite, Love your post and agree with you. The beginning of the church grew during much tribulation and I personally believe it will grow more durng the end of this age and the great tribulation to come. John saw a number that "no man could number" and the angel told him that these were those who come out of the Great trib. So does one think that they are suffering Gods wrath or Satans tribulation/persecution? I agree with the late Corrie Ten Boom when she said that the Rapture theory is mainly a western idea. I believe the Church will be refined in the fire. The church will also be tested. Its true that we are not appointed to Gods wrath, our appointment with Him is different. That said though, we may have to go thru the tribulaton. God protected the Children of Israel while they were in Egypt while Egypt was experiencing Gods wrath and then God led the Children of Israel out of Egypt. I believe the Tribulation and the Wrath of God are 2 seperate things.

Psalm 69:29- But I am poor and sorrowful; Let Your Yeshua(Salvation), O God, set me up on high. I will praise the name of God with a song, and magnify Him with thanksgiving. This also shall please the Lord better than an ox or bull, which has horns and hoofs. The humble shall see this and be glad; And you who seek God, your hearts shall live. For the Lord Hears the poor, and does not despise His prisoners. Yeshua came to set men free. To give them a heart of flesh instead of a heart of stone. He left all the glory and splendor of His Heavenly Kingdom, Immanuel, God with us, and yet He created the World, the Universe, He owns everything. He did not come seeking silver and gold, but Hearts of men. The little drummer boy, poor and of a humble and contrite heart, plays a song of Praise to His King. The little drummer boy, having no possessions, money, silver, gold to offer, offers up the one thing he does have, his talant. But this talant was given to him by His creator, whom He gives back by worshiping his Creator in music on his drum. You know, an earthly king can be showered with all kinds of material gifts from his subjects, but i bet if the truth be known, an earthly king would rather be loved by his subjects. Remember king Saul how upset he got when the women were singing the song of how "Saul has slaid his thousands, and David his ten-thousands?" Although he was still king, the hearts of the people were with a little shepherd boy named David. With all the Christmas rush to buy gifts for loved ones this season, let us not forget whose birthday we are celebrating. What gift will you give Him. What gift could we possibly give Him? He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, He owns everything! Does He own your heart? Does He as King of kings have your trust, loyalty, but most of all your heart and love? Yeshua was wrapped in swaddeling cloths, lets not lose sight of Him among our wrapped packages this season of our joy. Let us join with the little drummer boy and all the heavenly host praising Him with all that He has given us. Shalom

Greetings Shiloh, I just wanted to say that your last 2 posts brought tears to my eyes. I know exactly what you mean. I work in a mental health facility which takes people that no other mental health facility will take. They are throw-aways basically. These people are so messed up its almost incomprehensable. Most are labeled shizophrenic, pyshcotic, delusional, ect.. And most have histories of drug and alcahol abuse, sexual abuse, murder, ect... But I have found that by just loving them where they are right now, that it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. And who are we as believers but Gods intruments to show His love. I witnessed first hand one of the residents being healed by God and who now gives Him all the praise for setting her free thru Jesus. Not by power or by might but by His Spirit that works thru us. I was attacked twice this week and afterwards the two gentlemen cried like babes and apologized and told me that they did not want to "be this way" It was an opportunity for me to show the love of Yeshua to them and to testify of His coming to set them free. So you are right in that God has placed in man that moral compass. Most of these people may never accept Yeshua, I do not know, I am not their judge. God has not called me to judge them but to love them and to let His light shine thru me so that they see Him, does that make sense? Anyway, just wanted to let you know Shiloh how much I appreciate your honesty and what you said, cause it really really did hit home with me. Shalom dear brother

I read here where someone said that the 2 witnesses in Rev would be Moses and Elijah? But how can Moses be one when in Duet 34 it says "So Moses the servant of the Lord Died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord." Does Moses get to die a 2nd death during the Great Trib? For according to Rev 11 it states- "When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war with them. And their Dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city ...... The two witnesses identified as the 2 lampstands and 2 olivetrees are they not symbols of the witnessing Church? Would the beast "make war" with 2 individuals or could it be it an appropriate description of persecution of the believing Jews and Gentiles? And could it further be said that their bodies would be more than 2 individual bodies but scores of believers and then they are Raptured up according to this verse in Rev? And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them." For the next verse 15 says Then the 7th angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

I believe one can be "kept from the hour of trial". The Israelits were during the time the plagues were upon Egypt before their deliverence out of Egypt.

There is a great multitude that comes out of the Great Trib which no man can number of ALL Nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, not just The Jewish people.

Oh my Yes Sweety Cakes, I do not imply dishonor to Jesus at all. Just wondering if anyone has read the New Test to see if anyone in those books prayed directly to Jesus. Sometimes I feel like as believers, we do not take into consideration that God the Father loved the whole world so much that He sent His only begotten Son to us to die for us so that we may be reconcled back to Himself (God the Father) Sometimes when I pray, I thank Father God for sending His Son, and I also thank Jesus for willingly obeying Father God unto His death on the cross. But I cannot find anywhere in the New Test where anyone prays directly to to Jesus, just thought someone could help me out on this one.

All those "who live spiritually in God" do so because of the Holy Spirit, sent by Jesus, NOT by Mary. Mary was still on earth in flesh when Jesus ascended to the Father. He alone said it was expediant that He return to the Father, that was so He alone could send the comforter, which is not Mary but the Holy Spirit. There are no "Queens" in heaven. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. Mary is not co-redeemer. She needed a savior just like the rest of us. Let us learn a lesson from Jeremiah 7:18 "The children of Israel gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make "cakes to the Queen of heaven", and to pour out drink offerings unto OTHER gods, that they may provoke Me to anger."

I was just thinking, is there anywhere in the New Test where the disciples prayed to Jesus after his acension to heaven? What I mean is ,now that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father and intercedes for us, on our behalf, do we pray to God the Father in Jesus Name? Or do we just pray to Jesus? Jesus is the Way back to the Father, and whatever we ask of the Father in Jesus name he gives us, so I believe Jesus prayed to the Father and taught us also how to pray to the Father.

Shabbat Shalom to everyone here. I must go to work now. I am a nurse, I have to work every other weekend. I have enjoyed the study.

Amen Dave! Many Christians are looking for an escape but it is in not loving our lives, even unto death, that saints gain "patient endurance" Rev 13:10 these christians who believe and teach the pre-trib see themselves as being "seperate from israel", however, these same people call themselves "the saints" of the New Covenant- that is until John speaks of the Beast making war with the saints to overcome them(Rev 13:7) Then they refuse the title. Then they Give it to the Jews. Oh Yes, the church flys away, and the Jews go thru the trib and then and only then do the Jewish peple come to believe as the Christians do. Well if this theory was true, then after the Holocaust, Jews should have become Believes in Droves. But in opposition to this errant "wrath brings conversion" notion, Romans 2:4 tells us that it is the kindness of God that leads you to repentance. And the Jewish people will not see Yeshua and then believe. The plan is they will believe and then they will see Him. And they will believe when those called a "wild olive branch" fulfill their divine mandate and Provoke them to Jealousy." Yes we will be changed at the Last, uttermost trumpet. But until then we will have to wait UNTIL the man of Lawlessness is REVEALED before we HEAR that sound.

Actually there were 2 sabbaths the week Jesus was crucified. He was not crucified on Friday as has been taught, but that said, It was the 1st day of the week (our Greek Sunday) that the women went to the tomb and found it empty. Jesus could have risen right after the Hebrew Sabbath, on Saturday night at sundown by way of the Greek calander. After sundown on Saturday night the Sabbath is over and its considered to be the 1st day of the week. My personal opinon as to why the Catholic church instituted "Good Friday" as being the day Jesus was crucified was to seperate themselves from the anything "Jewish" such as the Feasts of the Lord, which by the way are NOT Jewish Feasts, but the scriptures call them "The Feasts of the Lord". These are the foreshadows of Jesus. Passover, unleavened Bread, Shavuot(Pentecost) ect... There are the weekly sabbaths, and there are the High Holy Day Sabbaths as well. For a better understanding, go to Leviticus 23. And the Lord spoke to Moses saying, "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these ARE MY FEASTS. Shavuot(Feasts of weeks) The Greek word "Pentecost" was practiced for many years by the Jews even before Jesus's day and it always fell on the Greek calander on Sunday. This is NOT a New Test. concept. This is why you read in Acts 2 about "And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from EVERY nation under heaven." These international Jews had made the pilgrimage to Jerusalem to celebrate the festival of weeks (Pentecost) All of these feasts of the Lord point directly to Jesus. There are 3 feasts which still have not been fulfilled in there entirety until Jesus returns. The feasts of Trumpets, Day of Atonment, and the Feasts of Tabernacles. I remember reading somewhere, where polycarp, who some scholars believe to be an elder at the church of Pergemos or Ephesus, i will have to research this again, but anyway, He and his assembly continued to keep the Saturday sabbath and the feasts of the Lord and there was controversy between him and the catholic church over it. The church seperated itself from anything that looked "Jewish" to them and made up their own traditions, one being that Christ was crcuified on Friday (Hence "Good Friday") and since he arose on the 1st day of the week, the church instituted that day as a "Universal Day" set aside for corporate worship. But it was more political than religous but thats another story. Then they brought in "Easter" sunday which had always been celebrated by the pagans long before Jesus. King Herod was an Edomite, not Jewish. In the KJV it states in Acts 12:4 And when he(Herod) had apprehended him (peter) he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him, intending after EASTER to bring him forth to the people. Now, many scholars today say that the word "Easter" in that text was a mistranslation and that it should have read "passover" If this is the case, then this translation was out there for many years being read in the KJV of scriptures. But I wonder, and I only assume this, I have no proof, but I wonder since Herod was an Edomite, that this verse is referring to Herod bringing Peter out to the people after He (Herod) celebrates Easter. In any event, If we read it in some of todays translations it says passover. What i am getting at here is where does the "days of unleavened bread" as spoken of in verse 3 of Acts 12 have anything to do with "Easter" spoken of in verse 4 of acts 12 in the KJV of scriptures? They dont. Did the Church put this word in there as they had changed the meaning of Passover to Easter? makes me wonder. Just some food for thought.

Matt 24:36 Which aspects of Jesus ministry does He say the "Days of Noah" picture? Of course its Jesus 2nd coming. In what manner were the days of Noah a picture of Jesus coming? Matt 24:36-39 Note how Jesus connects the total destruction of the generation of the flood with His 2nd coming. The key words are this "and took THEM ALL away." So what does that phrse mean? It means they were killed. Jesus clearly states that when he comes, people will be destroyed, ust as in the days of Noah. How is Matt 24:40-41 connected to Matt 24:39? They are connected thru the common predicate. "take away" Just as the generation of the flood continued to live as if life would never end UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY. so, likewise 1. one in the field shall be TAKEN 2. One grinding at the mill will be TAKEN those Taken are taken in judgement as were those of Noahs day. The context of Matt 24"40-41 does not suggest that Jesus is talking about a "Rapture". The context is about Jesus talking about the "Judgement of the ungodly. This is the reason Jesus connects it with the flood. Luke 17:34-37 In this passage the disciples ask Jesus where will those who are taken, be taken? Luke 17:37 says those TAKEN are taken to a place of judgement/destruction (a place of carcasses and vultures) Matt 13:40-43 When He comes, He will send forth His angels to TAKE all the unsaved into judgement/destruction. So when is the timing? Luke 17:34-47 Matt 24:36-41 AFTER the "tribulation of those days" Rev19:17 Luke 17:34-47 Matt 24:36-41 When Jesus returns, an angel will call the birds/vultures of the earth to prepare for a feast. Understanding that the Old Test is a foundation for understanding the New Test we can learn that the term "taken away" is a hebrew idiom which means to "destroy/kill. Here is a few passages that may help one understand the meaning of "taken away" as it is thru out the scriptures. Is57:13 57:1 40:24 64:6 Ezekiel 30:4 33:4 Daniel 11:12 Hosea 1:6 Matt 22:13 2Kings 13:3 But will we be "caught up" in the clouds to meet Him in the air? Yes Why was Noah not destroyed. Because he was not on the face of the earth Gen7:4 As in the days of Noah, ALL peoples who are on the face of the earth will be TAKEN AWAY. Killed Noah was in the ark but where was the ark? It was taken up with the rising flood waters. The ark was as high as the mountains. Taken up into the sky. This picture of Noah and family in the ark rising into the sky because of the flood waters is a picture of our gathering to meet Messiah in the sky. 1 Thess 4:14-17

I work with 2 nurses who are wiccan. They said that Halloween is their "New Year". Of course they say they do not worship the Devil and that they worship nature yada yada yada, It still amazes me how well educated people fall into that mess. But what truly amazes me is how people of faith in Jesus continue to participate in it taking their children around in goolish costumes for the sake of trick or treating for candy... when the scriptures say "do not go in the way of the heathen(Pagan). Yes and I know some say its just a harmless tradition,, ect but I often wonder does anyone really consider that any form of evil cannot be mixed with the worship of God? Just a thought.

In the book of Rev 7 angels sound seven trumpets. When the 7th angel blows the LAST of these trumpets, then "the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord" (Rev 11:15-16) It is all over. It is THE LAST TRUMPET. There canot be another trumpet after the LAST trumpet. If another trumpet were sounded after the 7th one, then all was not finished, it was not the LAST trumpet. So when will we all "be changed?" We will all be changed, in a moment, at the sound of the LAST trumpet. (1Corith 15:52) The change cannot occur before the Last trumpet of Revelation 7. Therefore, Believers will experience some persecution before they experience the promised change. Believers will be killed for their faith. The anti-christ persecutes the Believers. John saw myrids coming out of the great trib having their garments made white with the blood of the Lamb. The angel tells John these come out of EVERY tribe, tongue and nations, they are not just Jewish believers.

Actually "Going" to Church and "Being" the church are 2 different things. God has created everyday for us to worship Him for it is by Him that we live and move and have our being.

Dear st. worm, We here in the west use Greek vs Hebrew thinking. In Greek westernized thinking Friday is Friday, Saturday is Saturday just as you have said. But you must remember the time and place of which the scriptures were written. Hebrew reckoning of time is "and the evening and the morning were the first day" Saturday evening still to this day in Israel is considered the 1st day of the week. Thats why in your New Testament scriptures it never refers to the first day of the week as ON Sunday but it says on the 1st day of the week. In the Greek we know that being Sunday. The Sabbath day according to Hebrew thought then and to this day is Friday eve at sundown untill Saturday eve at sundown. Shalom

Maybe there is a difference in the terms Testament and Covenant? Food for thought.

MRSA in the health care field is also called the 4 horses of the apocalypse. we have had several cases this past year in the nursing facility I work in. Its from over abuse of antibiotics. Most in the facility I work in was in the urine of patients from repeated uti's (urinary tract infections) and from repeative antibiotics used to clear up the utis. c-diff was also a problem in our facility as well, again from antibiotics, but the cdc has been doing more research on c-diff and are finding more and more prople are coming down with it and have not used any antibiotics. handwashing is very important as nebula said and anit-bacterial soap is proving to be not so effective.

Its not about going to heaven for we are to pray for "thy KINGDOM COME", thy will be done ON EARTH" as it is in Heaven. (Gods dwelling place, tabernacle) Jesus not only died for our sins, But to set up a kingdom. Read John 18:37 Pilate asks Jesus "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered "You say rightly that I am a king. FOR THIS CAUSE I WAS BORN and for this cause I have come into the world(not on the earth, but into the "world "among the humans He created from the beginning to live eternally until disobeidence from eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused them to die physically. Man was origonally created to live forever. Jesus will be King for 1000 years on this earth ruling from Jerusalem. Then at the end of that time satan will be loosed for a season, then cast away forever by Jesus into the lake of fire (Rev 20) then John sees a new heaven and a new earth and the New Holy City "New Jerusalem" coming DOWN out of heaven from God the Father and then John hears a voice in Rev 21 verse 3 saying "Behold, the tabernacle (meaning dwelling place, heaven) of God is with men, and He (God) will dwell with them and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and and be their God." Jesus said that in His Fathers house are many mansions and that He has gone to prepare those mansions. This is the New Jerusalem He was talking about. Notice in rev 21 verse 2-3 that God is going to come down from Heaven and once again dwell with His creation. Thy KINGDOM COME" on earth as it is in Heaven. Read all of chapter 21 and 22 in Revelation. One last note; The nations will come up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles when Jesus rules from Jerusalem. There will be a kingdom on this earth, there will be kings and priests but Jesus will be the King of kings and Lord of lords then as He is now. Is 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the Government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlastinfg Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace, there will be NO END. Upon the throne of David and over HIS KINGDOM, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform it.

If we are guided by the Holy Spirit, and we know that the Spirit can be grieved, and we are told by this same Spirit of God not to watch something then we should not watch it. And if we are adults and dont watch it, then we should not let our children watch it. We have to at least make the effort to raise our children in the admonition of the Lord. After we have done that, when they are matured its up to them what they watch.

The only "tools" i would use to counter his and (others like him) arguments would be to move the United Nations to another country.

Yeshua said "Destroy this temple, (meaning His body, not spirit) and in 3 days I will raise it up" (John 2:19) Then the Jews said, "It has taken 46 years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in 3 days? verse 20 But He (Yeshua) was speaking of the temple of His Body. verse 21

In Matt 22:34-40, The Pharisee's code of morality consisted of countless minute rules and regulations. Jesus summed up ALL moral obligations in the word love, expressed in the two-fold direction of God and neighbor. The quote in verse 37 is from the Jewish Shema (Duet 6:4, 5) and it says- "Hear Oh Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words (commandments) which I command you today shall be in your heart." Israels Obedience was to arise from a relationship based upon Love. Verse 5 is considered by Jesus to be the 1st and Greatest commandment. The Heart was considered the seat of the Mind and Will. When Jesus quotes this passage in Mark 12:30 and Luke 10:27, He adds "MIND" to emphasize "UNDERSTANDING". Jesus gave us a fuller understanding of the commandments. Thats whats meant by He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets. The law of God is good provided one understands its function, which is to reveal sin AND to teach what is Right. The Law is powerless to produce holiness of life. But the fault is not with Gods law but with the law of Sin, the indwelling depravity of human nature which rebels against Gods laws. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, nor indeed can be. But if one has the Spirit of God, Loves Him with all their heart, soul, strenght, mind, and loves their neighbor as themselves, then all the other laws of the 10 commands follow. This is having the Laws of God written on our Hearts. This is obediance to the 10 commandments, out of a pure heart towards God and towards our neighbor.

I made a decision to Follow Christ and in the beginning, it cost me a lot. My sister made so much fun of me for several years, but ya know what? When she thought her marriage had ended and she was in a crisis of her life, she called me crying and I was able thru the Spirit to witness to her and her husband and they both decided to follow Christ. Today she has an awesome ministry for the Lord. I think back at how I could have reacted to the scorn and ridicule I got from her those years she was not a believer. I am glad that thru Him I was able to just love her and take all her criticisim. I have come to realize that God has His timing, and if we stay the course, He is able to turn things around for the good. Jesus said we must count the cost of following Him. So I believe that we do make a decision to follow Him or not follow Him. There are still others in my life, both family and old friends who always make a point when they see me to ridicule or make fun of my belief. But i just keep praying that they too will one day call on His name, but thats a decision they will have to make.