Easter Determination

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

There are important reasons why Christians celebrate the Risen Lord on Sunday. He rose on a Sunday.

he was crucified on Passover and rose on the Feast of Firstfruits (which is always the first day of the week following the Passover sabbath)

Are God's appointed times not good enough for us?

These days were observed as holy days for thousands of years before the Advent. What is wrong with them? Why do we need to jettison them and change it to dates aligned with fertility goddess and pagan spring rituals instead?

There really is no justification for it whatsoever. It's not catholic bashing to point out that it was the RCC who not only "created" this situation but enforced it upon those who disapproved under severe penalty.

Firstly,

I will not argue a Holy Time of my Risen Lord. I want it known I am only in discussion and will not argue.

But, this question, why on Sunday, would be better asked to the first original Christians; for they did worship Christ on Sunday voluntarily and it is historical fact, it was not under force either that they did it so. I believe it happened as history shows and we do need to accept that the same God of the Old Testament did this in His time in the New Testament of this, lest we try to pit the OT against the NT in this -the latter days, not good to do that. *I do not believe it was changed to align with goddess name as Lent and Easter is done in a different time frame and in many ways totally different and for our Lord only. Why would we want to only celebrate the Passover(which is a shadow of that to come,ie.Christ) ,Christ's death,when we can celebrate HIS Rising Alive from death! It is sorrowful His death , makes me cry, so as I said before I do believe in celebrating Jesus Risen on Sunday.

I am going to celebrate Christ Risen , not His death, that I have in memorial. That I can fast or realize how sorrowful what HE went through for us. Praise God the sting of death is gone in our Risen Lord!

Historical fact when the early Christians were outlawed, they rose before dawn on Sunday and prayed and sang songs to Christ together and breaking of bread.

I know some here think that we are going to"go back" to something in these latter days , I don't, I believe that the foreshadowing of Christ is that , a foreshadowing of Him when He comes. But,HE fulfilled it and we are going forward in Christ all the way in Gods Timing and Plan for mankind and for those who Love The Lord. After Christ, I would not go back to something else.

Regarding the Roman Catholic Church,as you mentioned, they did not create this; in the beginning it was so for early Christians.

Some are opposed to the RCC for other reasons and toss out historical facts. Some of the posts were actually Catholic bashing, with words I won't repeat.

A thought here also, that Jesus said, the Scriptures are they that are written to witness of me; yet you won't come to me. The ancient years of the OT were to witness of the coming Christ and He fulfilled them and He is our salvation and His timing is certainly good for me.

*The month of "April" itself was called easter also.

There is a lot in language and calender involved. One can find writing of ancient dispute regarding the proper time of observing both the ancient time of Jewish Sabbath of the First Fruits, "the feast of weeks", (which then lent itself to two days because of that) and Easter, due to location of persons celebrating it etc.

[Guest yod]

here's what my study Bible says:

The false teachers in Colosse were tempting the Colossians to bind themselves with the outward observances of Judaism. Paul warns the believers in Colosse not to let others bind them to regulations from which Christ has already freed them.

in a sense, i feel you're trying to do the same thing.

That last line was not neccessary. Unless you have some definable reason to disagree with the substance of my debate then making accusations like that are, in themselves, sin. It's called "gossip"

OK...back to the subject. It is always good to check the context and I'm alway happy to search for the truth of a matter.

Just 2 lines after this, Paul says, "Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind"

Judaism has never "delighted in self-abasement and the worship of angels" so Paul is obviously not speaking about judaizers.

That's another false accusation being perpetrated upon christians by theology. I find that most christian commentaries don't know what they are talking about when it comes to early history. They simply don't understand the culture that gave us the Bible enough to know it either.

[nebula]

There is no way you can take this passage and say that is telling us to keep the religious festivals, a New Moon celebrations or a Sabbath day. To do so you must add words that are not there. An honest reading of the passage is that you should not judge those that do keep such thing nor those that do not.

You make it sound like celebrating a holiday is a burden.

[Guest shiloh357]

what does col 2:16-17 mean?

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

You are reading it backwards....

that means the early community was being judged for keeping the Sabbath and the new moons and festivals. They continued until this was outlawed by the "church"

here's what my study Bible says:

The false teachers in Colosse were tempting the Colossians to bind themselves with the outward observances of Judaism. Paul warns the believers in Colosse not to let others bind them to regulations from which Christ has already freed them.

in a sense, i feel you're trying to do the same thing.

Well, your study bible is wrong. The church at Colosse was being infiltrated by Gnostics, who were into the worship of angels.

The Gnostics believed that the physical world and all that it is in it is evil by virtue of being evil. They were teaching the Colossians thta Jesus did not come in a physical body, as the human body is "evil" in Gnostic belief. That is why Paul puts so much emphasis on Jesus' body in that epistle.

In addition, any celebration or festival that sanctified matter, time and space in this world was considered evil in Gnosticsm. Far from celebrating, the Gnostics introduced ascetism and self abuse, such as starvation, sleep deprivation and even practices that caused injury, like beating one' self with a flagrum (whip) in order to punish the body.

The Gnostics were judging the Colossians on account of their celebrations. Paul (who was a Torah observant Jew) was warning the Colossians against the heresies of the Gnostics, not the Jews.

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no way you can take this passage and say that is telling us to keep the religious festivals, a New Moon celebrations or a Sabbath day.

That is not what I am getting from Yod. I have never seen Yod insist that everyone has to keep the Festivals or whatever. Having said that the passage is NOT about telling Gentiles not to let the Jews "judge" them. That is just ridiculous. The Jews don't care about what Gentiles do or don't do. In the first century, the only believers the Jews harrassed were Jewish believers who they felt were a political threat. Jews did not care what the Church at Colosse did or did not do.

To do so you must add words that are not there. An honest reading of the passage is that you should not judge those that do keep such thing nor those that do not.

No, that does not fit the context. The Colissians were under heavy pressure from the Gnostics, and Paul is dealing with that threat.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Mar 13 2009, 06:45 AM)

That is not what I am getting from Yod. I have never seen Yod insist that everyone has to keep the Festivals or whatever. Having said that the passage is NOT about telling Gentiles not to let the Jews "judge" them. That is just ridiculous. The Jews don't care about what Gentiles do or don't do. In the first century, the only believers the Jews harrassed were Jewish believers who they felt were a political threat. Jews did not care what the Church at Colosse did or did not do.

I never mentioned Jews or anyone else. The passage says "let no one pass judgment on you..." I dont care who the "no one" be it the Jews, Gnostics or anyone else.

What you care or don't care about is irrelevant. What is relevant is who PAUL was talking about, and Paul was talking about Gnostics.

So then this passage only has application only to the Colissians and the rest of us should just ignore it and go on our way judging people?

Look the context and the entire purpose of the book is dealing with an issue that was specific to this congregation. That is the way all of Paul's letters to the Churches are. He was addressing the specific needs and concerns of the people he is addressing. The letter to Colosse addressed the problems and issues they were facing. Paul was countering the efforts of the Gnostics to force the Colossians into heretical teachings.

The problem Yod is addressing is the rather hyprocritical approach Christians have on this issue. They don't want to be "judged" about not keeping the Sabbath or the biblical festivals or whatever, but they are not at a loss when it comes to disparaging those who do. If a person keeps the biblical Sabbath they are judged as trying to earn salvation by keeping the law, or they are accused of trying bring others under the law or some other disparagment.

that is just silly.

No, whats is "silly" is your rush to assign motives to what I am saying.

I think that if we should let no one pass judgment on us for doing something then we should also not pass judgment on them.

Which entirely misses the point Paul is making to the Colossians. Paul passed judgment on the gnostics and was refuting their teachings. Paul was not content to let the Colossians either go with the Gnostics not. It was not a "live and live" sentiment. Paul was quite adamant that the people passing judgment on the Colossians were not only wrong for doing so, but were also wrong, theologically.

[Yahsway]

"going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday is not wrong so it should not be judged" Correct! Going to Church or assembling together any day of the week is not wrong. That being said however, it is wrong to say that God changed the Sabbath day that He instituted from Saturday to Sunday.

The 7th day of the week is still the Sabbath day God instituted, but we are free to worship Him everyday.

[Yahsway]

I can only say that God built the 7 day week into the order of the universe. In our Bibles, the Sabbath God instituted is called the 7th day. The Day Yeshua was resurrected from the dead is called the 1st day.

We go by the Greek calender which has names for each day of the week, Where as the Jewish calender is different. But, for thousands of years the Jews have kept the 7th day Sabbath starting at sundown on Friday(our greek calender) to sundown on Saturday.

In Gen we find that God rested on the 7th day and sanctified it. In Exodus 16:22 we read where on the 6th day the children of Israel gathered twice as much bread in preparation for the Sabbath day.

I know that our Bibles use the terminology "the 1st day, the 6th day, the 14th day ect... instead of saying Sat, Sunday, Wed, ect..

And this must be because of Jewish reckoning of the days that make up a week.

And since this has been handed down from Generation to Generation, i believe the Sabbath to be from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. I have no doubts about it.

Someone else here could probably give you a much better answer for your question. Hope this helped in some way though.

[mizzdy]

"going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday is not wrong so it should not be judged" Correct! Going to Church or assembling together any day of the week is not wrong. That being said however, it is wrong to say that God changed the Sabbath day that He instituted from Saturday to Sunday.

The 7th day of the week is still the Sabbath day God instituted, but we are free to worship Him everyday.

The Sabbath is a day of rest not some end all be all day to worship God. I can't recall a verse of the bible that says the sabbath is the only day of worship or that it is the dayof worship.

[Yahsway]

You are correct mizzdy. Most people go to church on Sunday to worship God, do they not? I simply stated there is nothing wrong with that or to go worship Him any day of the week.

I stated that even though we are free to worship God any day of the week, the Sabbath day is still Saturday. I know that it is the day of rest. I never said it was not.