Dad Ernie Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greetings Yesult, Earnie I'm not really sure of your reasoning. And did you read all of my post? I stated, that being perfect, they would not have to fear death as they had done nothing to deserve it. They therefore did not need to eat from the tree of life. You arn't answering my points, just saying that they're wrong. Why do you keep saying that Adam and Eve were Perfect? Only one has been declared "perfect" and that was Satan. I have read every page of this topic. Have you? Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greetings Nebula, I'm not following your reasoning on this. Before eating of the ToKoGaE they had no need for the Tree of Life. After they ate of the forbidden tree, they were then prevented from eating of the Tree of Life. So why did the Lord create the Tree of Life? Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. In the "center" of the Garden were two trees. For perhaps 70 years, you are free to eat from all but one tree. Hmmmm I wonder if there is something special about that Tree of Life? Suppose? Did God say that they could only eat of it once? Of course not. Looking at a reverse of the "types and shadow" imagery, I have pointed out that we MUST eat daily of the Christ - our "Tree of Life". God created the Tree of Life so that Adam and Eve could "live forever in the Garden", as long as they continued to eat of it. Why assume that they never ate of it? There is nothing, even in the curse that would indicate they NEVER ate of it. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greetings Nebula, So was eating the fruit the actual first sin, or did it begin with what she believed? 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. IMHO I believe her sin began as the idea developed in her mind. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Why assume that they never ate of it? There is nothing, even in the curse that would indicate they NEVER ate of it. I think it's important to consider two things. First, that the Tree of Life was opposite the Tree of Knowledge. That is, if the Tree of Knowledge was death then the tree of life was life. But what kind of life was contained in that tree? Well we know that when they ate of the tree of knowledge they did "die," but not in the physical sense, as they continued to speak, breath, walk, etc. When Adam ate of the tree of knowledge he died spiritually. Man was created as a three part being: Body, soul and spirit. Adam possessed these three parts just as we do. So Adam had physical life - bios; he had a soul - psuche - another kind of life; and he had a spirit - pneuma. Although Adam was created with these three parts it was only his spirit that was not filled with the life of God. He contained everything inherent to the human life, but he did not have the divine life. So, again, what type of life was contained in the tree of life? It couldn't have been anything related to humanity, because Adam already had all that he needed to live as a human. So the tree of life must have contained the divine life, the life of God. That the tree of life contained the divine life is indicated in God's own words when He blacked the way to the tree of life. He said, "Now lest they stretch forth their hands and take also of the tree of life and live forever." Only the divine life, the life of god "lives forever." And only the life of God is able to regenerate man and transform man into the glorious image of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the New Testament. Second, that Adam and Eve had not partaken of the tree of life at any time is also evidenced in God's words. Had they taken of the tree of life there would have been no need to block their way to it, and God would not have said, "Now lest they...and take also." The human life is a mirror of the divine life in two aspects. First we are born. We are born of the life that has spawned us. In our human life we are born of humanity: We are human, that never changes. In order to grow in the human life we have to eat - we have to partake of various sources of life to grow and mature. In the divine life we are born of God. We are the children of God and heirs of God with Christ. When we are born of the divine life we are a new creation, we become citizens of the heavenlies and inheritors of all that Christ has obtained and attained though His process of redemption. Yet we have also become "partakers of the divine nature." As in our humanity we must also partake of the source of life (God Himself) to grow and mature in this life. This is why Christ is typified by the Tree of Life. Now, had Adam and Eve partaken of th Tree of Life first they would have had the divine life. They would not have any need to continually eat the tree in order to sustain the life they would have been born with, only to grow and mature in that life. Once we are regenerated into the new creation we are always that new creation. We are never "unborn." So had Adam and Eve eaten that tree they would have possessed the divine life. From that point they could have never considered partaking of the Tree of Knowledge. In that deep, sweet fellowship with God, as partakers of the divine nature, they would have been free from temptation, and Satan would never have convinced them. Because they had not known sin, not known temptation, their having partaken of the Tree of Life first would have resulted in what is ultimately God's goal, as it is shown at the end of Revelation: A pure bride and wife of Christ reigning in eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2009 May I think out loud a minute.. I have always loved the Scripture ... Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pro 13:12 I have always seen that as the desire being met in Jesus... healer of the heart of man... my heart... In reading this I was thinking that after they rebelled and ate of the tree that was so desirous to them they perhaps then saw the beauty of the tree of life ..too late.. If they did and it seems they did as God put an angel with a sword to keep them from it... then there must have been a terrible sickness of heart .. they could not get to it.... and the only way for that sickness to be healed is to eat of the tree of life... gotta go... good thread ..enjoyed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I think it's important to consider two things. First, that the Tree of Life was opposite the Tree of Knowledge. Actually, it is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I know it's easier to type the short-hand version, but it does make a difference to the nature of the tree and its fruit. Which leads me to a question: What exactly is the fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that makes is so destructive? What specifically is the product of that fruit? What are its manifestations in our lives and those around us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greetings Ovedya, I have heard this response before - typical OSAS. No offense, but you probably do not believe that a person could have their name blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life as well. Yet elsewhere I have shown several verses which indicate that God does do that. It is not reasonable to assume that Adam and Eve DID NOT eat of the Tree of Life during their many years in the Garden. But that is what you are doing. There is nothing said, even in the curse that would indicate they NEVER ate of that tree. OSAS basically says that once you confess Christ as Lord and Savior, you will ALWAYS be saved. I have known many though, that contradict this. One very close, my sister, gave all indications at first that she had been saved. But I am reminded of: Matthew 13:20-22 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. I continue to pray for her, but in retrospect, at no time did she show the love and devotion to Christ on a daily basis that would indicate a true conversion. You see, I know that my heart has been changed. I love the Lord with all my heart mind body and spirit. I truly believe that my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life and I do not believe that Christ will EVER let me go. I am His and He is mine. Praise God! But you know what? If I go for a day or a week or a month without that steady inflow of the bread of life - the Tree of Life, I begin to lose touch with my moorings. I KNOW that Adam and Eve maintained their life while in the Garden by daily eating of the Tree of Life. Perhaps on the day of their deception, they were distracted from eating of it by the serpant and of course - fell away and fell into sin. Do you honestly believe that Adam and Eve could go all those years in the Garden without eating of the Tree of Life? Please answer this and tell me whether you think that would be reasonable and why. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2009 That is the first time I have ever heard anyone say they believed Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life.. first time... What did God say after they ate wrongly... Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. If they had eaten of it already there would not have been a need to stop them from eating again as the deed would have been done and they would already live forever in the fallen state... It is so much bigger than that in every aspect of its meaning if they had already eaten of the tree of life... Beyond my ability to even say but I know it is... We can now eat of that Tree as Jesus came and is that hope we had of healing... What it would have been like had they eaten is a terrible thought.. and Yes I believe that nothing can pluck me from my Fathers hands... how can anyone find rest in their hearts if they are always afraid God will cast them off ... I fear his discipline (as it can be harsh but deserved) but I do not fear He will blot me out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2009 Grace to you, I'm pondering this thought ruminating through my head. Why was it called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Did Adam and Eve not know Good? This is rather complex but had they partaken of the Tree of Life as supposed in this thread to be the Life of Christ, would they not know Good? Now, this passive thought is so deep right now that it's almost slipping but how could they have not known the Good after walking in the Garden with it? Is it possible at all that they were indeed innocent not having known the Good or the Evil because what more is knowledge than the knowing of something? Okay, back to the discussion now because my head hurts. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2009 Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: First, it was not the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that brought death to Adam, it was his disobedience and sin. See, Adam had a prefect God given understanding of good and evil, eat freely of ALL the trees (good) and do not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (evil). What Satan had manage to do was to get a consensus from Eve and likely Adam too was that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil did indeed look desirous to eat and the fact that it could make them like God was desirous to. Satan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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