The Trinity

[AllforJesustheLord]

If Jesus and the Father are one in the same as the Holy Spirit, then to whom did Jesus offer Himself? Who accepted, that is deemed the offering acceptable for the atonement for sin, His offering? Is it not impossible - for the offering, and the one to whom the offering is given - to be the same being? If it is not impossible, it certainly would be a sham.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

I know the separation is true, but I also see the oneness in scripture also. We are made in the image of God, if we as humans look at ourselves, we can see different understandings about who God is.

[Old Timer]

AllForJesus, Amen!

We are created in the image and likeness of God (Gen. 1:26)

composed of flesh, breath and spirit. Three making up the whole.

When we die the breath leaves us, the flesh decays and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

[other one]

Quotes of Trinitarians about God:

The name of the Lord God is Yahweh (Jehovah) and HE is our Father (Is 63:16). In the new testament his name is Jesus Christ.The title Father does not designate another God or being but is simply a description of the relationship between the Lord God (Yahweh) and man. Jesus Christ said that God is SPIRIT. Here again, Jesus did not say that the Spirit is another being , person or god, but that the essence of God is Spirit. GOD THE FATHER IS THE ETERNAL INVISIBLE HOLY SPIRIT and HE is ONE only and not three . This only one God revealed himself in the flesh in Jesus Christ. The nature of God which is SPIRIT,combined in the nature of man (flesh) Does this fact constitute two gods or persons? Defenitely

not.

You find the scriptures about God in Jesus Christ under "Doctrines".

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put al His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put al things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all

I don't understand how Jesus could be the Father..... this and other scriptures just would make no sense at all. I also don't understand how people can say that Jesus and the Father are equal. I don't understand if Jesus was all powerful all of God in the flesh, why he had to have all the power and athority given to Him. He would have already had it.

[BobTriez]

I don't understand how Jesus could be the Father.....  this and other scriptures just would make no sense at all.  I also don't understand how people can say that Jesus and the Father are equal.  I don't understand if Jesus was all powerful all of God in the flesh, why he had to have all the power and athority given to Him.  He would have already had it.

Well, let's start before time.....who created everything ? God, right ? You do believe Jesus is God, right ? Let's see what the Bible says ( I know I've been through all of this with you already several months ago....that's ok. Maybe I'll help ya get it this time ).

Genesis 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Established ? God created the heavens and the earth ?

Now see this....

Colossians 1:15-18

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy

Starting to come together yet ? In the beginning, God.....for by Him [ Jesus ] all things were created.

Jesus = God.......Correct ?

Let's stop there & make sure you agree with this, otherwise there's little point in going on....I'll need to cite more proof of Jesus being God.

So, you do or do not believe that Jesus is God ?

I'll follow up after your answer.

In HIM

Bob

[other one]

Bob, I went into great detail as to what I thought several months ago when the subject came up then.

I believe that Jesus was what the Israelites interfaced with, if you want to call him "I am"

I believe he stepped down from that position to become human.

I believe the until he did the humans on this planet did not know the Father.

I believe He was and has always been subordinate to the Father and always will be.

I believe he has made it possible for us to know the Father through Him. We now have access to the Father that the people before His death did not have.

I don't discuss the Spirit much. I am not sure if the Spirit is of the Father or the Son, but I do believe it is of one of them. At onetime I was leaning toward the Father, but I am at the present time leaning toward the Son.

I guess that makes me somewhat of a non Christian in some peoples eyes, if so, so be it. But it is my belief and not what someone has pieced together into a story that is not really understood by most people that I know. I don't see it as a mystery at all.

The mystery to me is how someone can buy into the definition of how the three fit together that makes up the doctrine of the Trinity. They are not the same and they are not equal........

Sam

[Guest idied2]

The trinity talk about three persons. Is not scriptural. The scriptures say that GOD is SPIRIT.

Joh 4:24

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

The scriptures also say that JESUS CHRIST is the father. That would make the father and CHRIST JESUS the same person. not two different persons.

John 14:

8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

It boils down to the scriptures that say THEY are all one and the same.

De 6:4

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Zec 14:9

And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The Lord is one,"* And His name one.

Mr 12:29

Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

1Co 6:17

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Here are the scriptures that were used in time past to create a false doctrine for everyone. It was just a bad inturpretation by some one.

Mt 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

1Jo 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

No where does it say the three are seperate.

Ga 4:6

And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

The scripture above and the one below show that the SPIRIT of HIS SON and the HOLY SPIRIT are one and the same.

Joh 14:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

In these two scriptures JESUS first says the FATHER will send the helper And then he says HE will send it. Showing that all three are the same.

Joh 15:26

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

The FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT. All one and the same.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug:

[WayneB]

The trinity talk about three persons. Is not scriptural. The scriptures say that GOD is SPIRIT.

Not Scriptual? Not true my firend.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 6T his is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Be Blessed,

Wayen

[Catsmeow]

I don't understand how Jesus could be the Father..... this and other scriptures just would make no sense at all. I also don't understand how people can say that Jesus and the Father are equal.

This is why it's often referred to as the "mystery of the Trinity"...it IS hard to define and understand.

I admitted upfront I don't comprehend it. I will SOMEDAY but I cannot comprehend it now.

It's something too wonderful to comprehend. God will explain it and we will understand Him as we are understood by Him.

We look through a glass darkly..but someday we will understand these complex mysteries.

[Catsmeow]

John 14:5-11

5 "No, we don't know, Lord," Thomas said. "We haven't any idea where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known who I am, then you would have known who my Father is.

[whatsitmean]

My first question is not getting answered, so I