The Gospel or What???

[book_wirm]

1- Yup.    Even so, it's setting the bar quite low.

2- Agreed.  But I think it should more than a sermon, a three-minute discussion, and a short prayer.

3- My concern is not for false confessions.  Again, I don't question the sincerity of the people who solicit (or come forward for) instant conversions.  What I question, is the meaniningfulness (if that's a word  ) of such a quick process.

4- So you want to proclaim a man saved before observing evidence of his faith and repentance?    Sounds dangerous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1...Well thank God it's not up to us to "set the bar".

2...Why?

3...I think we misunderstand eachother because of terms. By false confession and true (or sincere) confession I do not imply the intention of the confessor, but the actuality or lack thereof of the result in salvation. Thus when I say a false confession I mean one in which no true salvation has taken place, whether for lack of true faith or right understanding, and when I say a true confession I mean one in which actual salvation has taken place through true faith and right understanding.

4...I don't "proclaim" anyone saved. If a man, after being presented the gospel and instructed in the way of salvation makes a confession of faith (ie. accpetance of truth and intention to turn from sins) it is then "TO BE PROVED" if his salvation is one of truth or no. This is where many provide false security to those who should otherwise have none...in "proclaiming them saved" with no evidence of such. But the evidence can not precede that which should produce it..salvation.

In Christ,

Eric

[Iryssa]

1- Ah, the apostles might disagree with that. 

Care to elaborate? (WITH scripture)

2- If they really had good hearts, they wouldn't make a decision so impulsively.  Which is why we shouldn't ask them to.

I made a quick reference to this point, but I guess I should have made it clearer:

For many people who walk up or raise their hands at altar calls, this is not something impulsive. I've seen a common thread among my friends who accepted Christ at an altar call (and who are still walking in the Lord, by the way): Most of them had been witnessed to (I thank God that He used me and many of my friends for that task) for quite some time, and had been considering Christianity...they weren't just leaping into it...I can tell you that three at least are very calculating people, in fact. I think they just needed to hear the call from someone else, or maybe God just decided that that moment was the time. In any case, I can tell you that their confessions were genuine.

3- Which is exactly the reason why altar calls are dangerous. 

Driving my car is dangerous, but I still do it. I know, it's not the same. But the pattern of logic can carry over...people have bad experiences, but for everyone to stop doing something because someone or many people have had bad experiences is not only paranoid but a result of logical fallacy. (That one's called Gambler's Fallacy, if anyone cares)

4- And for this reason, my church will never do an altar call.

Whatever works for your church.

5- In the course of a single sermon, a three-minute sermon, and a prayer?    I wouldn't be so sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A) didn't think it was that funny, B) You'd be surprised how succinctly some people can put it, and C) Refer to my comment on number 2

1-Just as sincerity does not equal true, instantaneous (or "impulsive" as you term it) does not equal false.

2- There is no instruction given to "how long" someone must learn before salvation is possible for them.

3- Not using alter calls (and I am not trying to persuade you to do so) does not solve the problem of false confessions.

4- Most definitely. I would be so sure....but I would also watch for proof of that confession to manifest in the days, months, and years which follow it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1- Yup. Even so, it's setting the bar quite low.

2- Agreed. But I think it should more than a sermon, a three-minute discussion, and a short prayer.

3- My concern is not for false confessions. Again, I don't question the sincerity of the people who solicit (or come forward for) instant conversions. What I question, is the meaniningfulness (if that's a word ) of such a quick process.

Yup, it's a word For some people it may even be more meaningful because it seemed spontaneous. These are the same people who fall in love the first time they meet...it does happen!

4- So you want to proclaim a man saved before observing evidence of his faith and repentance?    Sounds dangerous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about you, but I was a long ways from perfect when I was a "newbie" and I still am. I had a lot of old habits that died hard...they didn't disappear overnight. A lot of people might have questioned my salvation, but you know what? THEIR opinions didn't matter. The only one that mattered was God's, and I was just as convinced of my salvation then as I am now. I could feel the difference, see it where only my closest friends could...anyway, the changes got more obvious, and I'm still changing.