pokemaughan Posted May 18, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 630 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1990 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hello bro's and sis's, I was talking with my older sister, Melody, today about her fiance, Frederick. Frederick is a Jehovah's Witness, you see. And the other day, Mel went to a JW church and had a JW Bible-study with Fred and his buddy. They were talking about a few things that of course made my sister confused. Thankfully God has given both me and my grandfather the opportunity to teach her a few things, answer some questions, and hopefully give her something tangible to defend the Word with. She will be calling me later tonight, at which point I will be able to give her as much knowledge on the issues as I can. The issue she's wondering about now is hell. As you know, JW's don't believe in a physical hell full of fire and sorrow. They believe that when you die you die and 'that's it'. She was told that the definition for hell is 'a man's grave', which I replied saying that that's simply not true. Thankfully I've been given the opportunity to start studying Greek, which will help tremendously in situations like this. The Greek words for hell are hades and gehenna. The Hebrew word is sheol. Hades - The abode of Hades/Pluto, the god of the underworld. Used in place of Sheol when translated from Hebrew. Sheol (Hebrew) - Underworld, grave, pit; used in the OT as "the abode of the dead". Gehenna - A valley southwest of Jerusalem that was used to burn children in offering to the god Moloch in the time of Ahaz. It was later desecrated by Josiah and became a dumping place for the offal (animal guts/entrails) of the city. In the NT, it is the name used as a symbol of the place of future punishment. Anyways, I'm going to do some research on the subjects tonight and write out a basic outline for arguing against the JW's false doctrine in a very loving and calm manner. I plan to discuss the Greek text, verses that discuss hell, and things like that. At one point I also want to talk with Fred himself, so we can at least get a standpoint on eachother. Can anyone lend me some advice or Scripture to help me? Oh, and prayers would be welcomed, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh62 Posted May 18, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,683 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/14/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1962 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hello bro's and sis's, I was talking with my older sister, Melody, today about her fiance, Frederick. Frederick is a Jehovah's Witness, you see. And the other day, Mel went to a JW church and had a JW Bible-study with Fred and his buddy. They were talking about a few things that of course made my sister confused. Thankfully God has given both me and my grandfather the opportunity to teach her a few things, answer some questions, and hopefully give her something tangible to defend the Word with. She will be calling me later tonight, at which point I will be able to give her as much knowledge on the issues as I can. The issue she's wondering about now is hell. As you know, JW's don't believe in a physical hell full of fire and sorrow. They believe that when you die you die and 'that's it'. She was told that the definition for hell is 'a man's grave', which I replied saying that that's simply not true. Thankfully I've been given the opportunity to start studying Greek, which will help tremendously in situations like this. The Greek words for hell are hades and gehenna. The Hebrew word is sheol. Hades - The abode of Hades/Pluto, the god of the underworld. Used in place of Sheol when translated from Hebrew. Sheol (Hebrew) - Underworld, grave, pit; used in the OT as "the abode of the dead". Gehenna - A valley southwest of Jerusalem that was used to burn children in offering to the god Moloch in the time of Ahaz. It was later desecrated by Josiah and became a dumping place for the offal (animal guts/entrails) of the city. In the NT, it is the name used as a symbol of the place of future punishment. Anyways, I'm going to do some research on the subjects tonight and write out a basic outline for arguing against the JW's false doctrine in a very loving and calm manner. I plan to discuss the Greek text, verses that discuss hell, and things like that. At one point I also want to talk with Fred himself, so we can at least get a standpoint on eachother. Can anyone lend me some advice or Scripture to help me? Oh, and prayers would be welcomed, too. From what I understand, Hades and Hell are not exactly the same. I brlieve that Hades was the place where everyone went in the old testament,and the good were separated dfrom the bad. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man, after they died? The ywere communicating with each other, but from different parts of Hades. Hell,on the other hand is the New Testament place where people go that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour. Someone correct me if I'm off on this one. But as far as hell being a man's grave? No. Are Melody and Frederick equally yoked? By that I mean, what is Melody's church background? Is she from a Christian New Testament Church that bases its beliefs on the bible rather than some other book that man wrote? If so, has she spoken to her pastor about becoming a Jehovah's Witness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Ask him about Michael the archangel, and what he has to do with Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemaughan Posted May 18, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 630 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1990 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 From what I understand, Hades and Hell are not exactly the same. I brlieve that Hades was the place where everyone went in the old testament,and the good were separated dfrom the bad. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man, after they died? The ywere communicating with each other, but from different parts of Hades. Hell,on the other hand is the New Testament place where people go that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour. Someone correct me if I'm off on this one. But as far as hell being a man's grave? No. Are Melody and Frederick equally yoked? By that I mean, what is Melody's church background? Is she from a Christian New Testament Church that bases its beliefs on the bible rather than some other book that man wrote? If so, has she spoken to her pastor about becoming a Jehovah's Witness? Yes Shiloh, I agree with you. Obviously in OT times, there was no proper method for abolishing one's sins, other than repeated sacrifice of cattle. The dead went to Sheol/Hades, where they were in a medium between heaven and hell, and were later judged via Christ for how they lived and so on. Melody is a Christian. Frederick is a JW. I will talk to her about that issue. They are by definition unequally yoked, but if there's any hope that Fred can change his path, they could end up being just fine. We'll see. Ask him about Michael the archangel, and what he has to do with Jesus. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Ask him about Michael the archangel, and what he has to do with Jesus. Can you elaborate? The JW's claim that Jesus was at one time, Michael the archangel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted May 19, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted May 19, 2009 The key issue with JWs is their rejection of the Deity of Christ. Trying to talk about the Trinity will be premature if they just think that Jesus is a created being, Michael the Archangel (they use a couple proof texts out of context for this). Their view is the ancient heresy of Arianism. They also reject the personality of the Holy Spirit and call Him an 'it', a mere active force. Hell, voting, blood transfusions, war, Christmas, Armageddon, Paradise earth, Catholic bashing, etc. are secondary to who Jesus is. They have a false gospel (Gal. 1:6-10) and a counterfeit Christ (2 Cor. 11:4). Jn. 1:1 is a key verse, but requires some Greek knowledge (see their Kingdom Interlinear) since their New World Translation grossly mistranslates it as the Word was a god (polytheism). There is only one true God and many so-called or false gods. They are half correct about hell. Sheol or Hades can be used of the common grave of man where the physical body goes. We should admit this since they are right. However, words have a semantical range of meaning. In other contexts and historical usage, it can also be the place of the departed. The lake of fire is the final destiny of Satan and unregenerate man and demons. They teach annihilationism (false) and also have a wrong view of the soul (just like a dog vs continues after death as spirit-soul). Their founder was Russell, a rationalist, who rejected biblical revelation. They are indoctrinated and part of a false cult, a difficult group to reason with. The internet would have many resources to help in reaching these precious, but deceived people for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted May 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It is very hard to debate with a Jehovah's Witness. They are so deceived. Here is a website that is very good and you may find answers there: http://www.4witness.org/ <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid Posted May 19, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,390 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2009 (I was raised in this cult left and later came to know Jesus Christ) it was the determining factor for me as an exjw to WHO IS JESUS ,it is vital point,she needs to get that straight right off,as been resting on boards however PM me if want to and see my Pm to you.Also reading their history as an org and also a corporation , who they've been and really are; is NOT who or what they say they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murse32 Posted May 19, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/25/1977 Share Posted May 19, 2009 From what I understand, Hades and Hell are not exactly the same. I brlieve that Hades was the place where everyone went in the old testament,and the good were separated dfrom the bad. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man, after they died? The ywere communicating with each other, but from different parts of Hades. Hell,on the other hand is the New Testament place where people go that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour. Someone correct me if I'm off on this one. But as far as hell being a man's grave? No. Not saying you are wrong or right...I've just always understood it differently...and I could be wrong. The bible only gives us a faint glimpse into the afterlife. But I always understood it as the righteous went to Abrhams Bosom whereas the wicked went to Hades. In Luke 16, we see Lazarus comforted in the place known as "Abrahams Bosom" where the rich man was tormented in the flames of Hades. Many believe that everyone goes or went to the same place once we died because in the end of Revelation we see the white throne judgement. I believe all are judged immediately when they perish, just not giving reasons. At the white throne judgement the books will be opened and everyone's life will be known and the reasons for their eternal resting place be made well aware. As I have said, this is just my opinion. The words speaking of the rich man, state he "looked up" to see Abraham. Maybe this shows us that they were able to see and speak to each other....maybe it was told that way to make the point of the parable more understandable...I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted May 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Those things are merely incidental. The Jehova's Witness religion is a sub-Christian religion preaching a non-salvific 'gospel.' They do NOT recognize Jesus Christ as YHWH in flesh. Nor do they believe He was physically raised from the dead! If Christ is not raised, there is NO salvation. So teach her Luke 24:36-40. Then she can just ask them how they can POSSIBLY say Jesus did NOT rise physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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