WolfBitn Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2009 ...according to scripture, and i agree. I think people miss out a lot when they dont realize this. I have been greatly blessed studying with both messianic and nonmessianic jews, and i find their knowledge of scripture invaluable to me. Ive learned so much since studying scritpure from a Jewish point of view, though i of course am not jewish The Shema for instance, Deut 6:4 shows us the multiplicity of God in the word 'echad', meaning 'parts joined into one unit'. At any rate i just wanted to express my thoughts on this in thankfulness God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) As I was waiting I looked in the NT and I cannot find on place where scripture says that Christianity is a sect of the Jews. I found one spot where the Jewish leaders called it a sect, but that is a record of history, not a statement of fact. what am I missing? you dont know the story of the gospels? How this sect started? Whom the messiah revealed Himself to and who were the founders after Him? ...and what their religion was before Him? Did He lead them AWAY from judaism? Edited July 28, 2009 by WolfBitn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted July 28, 2009 As I was waiting I looked in the NT and I cannot find on place where scripture says that Christianity is a sect of the Jews. I found one spot where the Jewish leaders called it a sect, but that is a record of history, not a statement of fact. what am I missing? you dont know the story of the gospels? How this sect started? Whom the messiah revealed Himself to and who were the founders after Him? ...and what their religion was before Him? Did He lead them AWAY from judaism? I will take that as a no, you cant provide what I asked for. The fact that Christianity started as a sect of the Jews does not mean it still is. This country started as a colony of England, does that mean we still are? Running GAtor, are you seriously argueing this or are you just argueing to argue? I have to ask, because I think you know that we are grafted in to the JEwish family and made heirs to the promise of Abraham. HE is still the GOD of the JEws who has opened a way for us to partake with HIS chosen people in HIS promises to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I always thought we had been grafted into God's family. (lyrics), red, yellow, black or white we are precious in His sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemaughan Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 630 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1990 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think someone didn't get enough blood today On another note, I've really enjoyed your challenging posts, Wolf. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) I think someone didn't get enough blood today On another note, I've really enjoyed your challenging posts, Wolf. Keep it up. Well thank you pokemaughan We are mentioned 3 times in the book of acts as being a sect of the jews We descended from judaism, the founder of our sect being a Nazarene, Jesus the Messiah. We are told Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: The only differance being that while israel ALWAYS took in the stranger, or was instructed to anyway, people from outside races and religions converted from moses to now... but after Christ the gentile was grafted in fully Jesus didnt come to create a new religion... He lived the jewish religion to perfection as God intended it to be... then He became the living symbol, the living sacrifice... The christian jews didnt stop practicing judaism, the only excused the gentiles from some jewish customs Edited July 28, 2009 by WolfBitn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Sect, a group regarded as deviating from a generally accepted tradition. After thinking about this my question is: Did the Apostles teach Judaism or the Gospel according to Christ. In 1st Corinthians we are told that Paul established a church, " Unto to the church of God which is at Cornith". Paul addresses several issues, abuse of the Lord's Supper, lawsuits, immorality, factions and spiritual gifts, but to me, it seems he mentions nothing about deviating from a generally accepted tradition. I guess what I'm asking is, why didn't he comment on the aspects of Judaism, those things which define the Jewish religion, manner of dress, food, holy days etc. More so, why didn't the other Apostles stress these points. Something new can come out of something old, and I'm thinking that is exactly what happened. The fact that the Messiah was a Nazarene fulfills prophecy, as does the crucifixion and resurrection. Unless it can be shown that the Apostles taught Jewish tradition along with the gospel, I do not think you can call Christianity a sect of Judaism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2009 We are mentioned 3 times in the book of acts as being a sect of the jews We descended from judaism, the founder of our sect being a Nazarene, Jesus the Messiah. Can you provide these, please. The fact that we descended from judaism doesn't mean we are a sect of judaism. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Jew first, and then gentile.... why do you think this means that we are still a sect of judaism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Running GAtor, are you seriously argueing this or are you just argueing to argue? I have to ask, because I think you know that we are grafted in to the JEwish family and made heirs to the promise of Abraham. HE is still the GOD of the JEws who has opened a way for us to partake with HIS chosen people in HIS promises to them. we might be grafted into the Jewish family, we are not grafted into the Jewish religion. More or less, true. But the religion of the Hebrews is nothing more than GOD revealing HIS nature and identity to a people through laws on how to live as holy and righteous as HE is. You are correct in that we were not grafted into a requirement to keep those laws. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnetrueGod Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 82 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1959 Share Posted July 28, 2009 In the eyes of the Jewish leaders of the time of the establishment of Christianity, I'm sure that Christians appeared to be a sect of the Jews. Their founder, Jesus was a Jew, His chosen Disciples-Apostles were all Jews. They would see this as some sort of wierd Jewish Sect with ideas that the Messiah had already come. They expected the Messiah to come and throw out the Roman occupation and re-establish the Kingdom of David...they could not see what Jesus actually came to establish...a new conenant with the people, not destroying the Law of Moses, but rather fullfilling it... This new covenant would be for all races of people, not just the Jews. Paul apparently began his ministry in most locations in the local synagogues. This was probably due to his link to them as a fellow Jew and the Jewish prophesies about the coming of the Christ and a common belief of Jehovah God would make them a good first contact. So as he established congregations in these locations, most of his more experienced contacts at these churches would likely have been Jews. His writings tend to show this as pointed out with his discourse of "to the Jew first". I feel this is likely a reference to the fact that the Jews have known about the coming of the Christ long before the gentile world. I am responding from remote, so I do not have a copy of the Bible with me...yes I know, not a good thing when discussing Bible concepts. But from memory it seems to me that these things were established in scripture... Matthew 23: Jesus verbally attacks the Jewish leaders for not accepting their own prophets and prophesies about the coming of the Messiah. Ending point...God will desert you and leave you desolate. Acts 2: Peter and the Apostles on Pentecost rail against their fellow Jews for crucifying the Son of God and not accepting Him as their Savior. Acts 10: Peter is shown through a vision that God now accepts those in the gentile world as "clean" and Peter goes to Cornelius as the first gentile convert. All of Hebrews: This book is a disertation answering this very question...where does Law of Moses stop and Christianity begin and basically how the new covenant replaces the old and "nails it to the cross". The new covenant is not just for the Jews...but for all men. Christianity, while having its roots in Jewish history, is no longer a "Jewish Sect" but it's own stand alone covenant with God. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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