nebula Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Lucifer is the ancient Latin name for the morning star, and Phospherous the name for the evening star, which is why the word Lucifer appeared in the Latin Bible and in the King James Bible. But that word "Lucifer" does nor appear in the original Hebrew or anywhere in the Hebrew O.T or Greek N.T, which is why all modern translations have refrained from using the word Lucifer. It's interesting that in the original Hebrew of Job 38: 7, "morning star" appears in the singular, not in the plural (Hebrew: boqer kokab). The words "sang together" are translated from the Hebrew words ranan (to shout for joy) and yachad (in unity). The words translated into English as "sons of God" are also in the singular in the Hebrew: ben elohiym and the word all (all the sons of God) is a translation of the Hebrew word kol which means "the whole" If it were translated word-for-word, the verse could just as well be translated "When the morning star shouted for joy in unity, and with every part made a joyful noise". That's really cool, lekh! Thank-you for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 LOL no my friend . . . OK - I just wanted to be sure. Forgive us, but we do consider this board a ministry (rather than just another place for people to gab), and as such we have to be careful about what is promoted here. We've seen members swept away by deceptive doctirnes promoted on the Board before , and we don't want such to happen again. So when new people come on presenting "weird" stuff, we do get on our guard. So please do not be offended by people checking you out, OK? Grace and humility go a long way, you know? i realize this Nebula, i dont mind the question. Maybe it would be best if i posted my believe in a seperate thread... my own personal statement of faith. I ask quesitons because not only do I DESIRE to dig deep into the word and to "get understanding with all my getting", i try to provoke thought for everyone to do so. I believe we are living in the days of the great falling away, and i feel KNOWING the word and constantly digging in it, saturating ourselves in the word, isnt neccessarily a cure all, but it sure helps harden and thicken and strengthen the armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesussaves Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2009 in context: Job:38:1: Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job:38:2: Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Job:38:3: Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Job:38:4: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job:38:5: Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job:38:6: Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job:38:7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job:38:8: Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? Job:38:9: When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, The Lord is talking about stars here. No analogy or reference to Jesus who is not a stars...but The Bright And Morning Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2009 Looking at NASB, we find the following: Isaiah 14:12 (New American Standard Bible) How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Looking at NASB, we find the following: Isaiah 14:12 (New American Standard Bible) How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two. OK, astronomy question - What other star could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2009 Looking at NASB, we find the following: Isaiah 14:12 (New American Standard Bible) How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two. OK, astronomy question - What other star could it be? answer: Revelation 22:16 " I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Unless you are calling Jesus Lucifer, there must be more then one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Looking at NASB, we find the following: Isaiah 14:12 (New American Standard Bible) How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two. While i agree with your statement, we dont have this alone to go by... 'Lucifer' actually means morning star, so this is simply a poetic way of addressing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2009 Looking at NASB, we find the following: Isaiah 14:12 (New American Standard Bible) How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two. While i agree with your statement, we dont have this alone to go by... 'Lucifer' actually means morning star, so this is simply a poetic way of addressing him I go by Revelation 22:16 " I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Tying the two together, as you did, is wrong. I did not read your statement as being poetic. Both Christ and Lucifer are referred to as morning stars in the scriptur That is where heresy comes from, by making statements and then brushing it off, never correcting them. Others read and believe. You should know this with all the writing you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2009 Lucifer is the ancient Latin name for the morning star, and Phospherous the name for the evening star, which is why the word Lucifer appeared in the Latin Bible and in the King James Bible. But that word "Lucifer" does nor appear in the original Hebrew or anywhere in the Hebrew O.T or Greek N.T, which is why all modern translations have refrained from using the word Lucifer. It's interesting that in the original Hebrew of Job 38: 7, "morning star" appears in the singular, not in the plural (Hebrew: boqer kokab). The words "sang together" are translated from the Hebrew words ranan (to shout for joy) and yachad (in unity). The words translated into English as "sons of God" are also in the singular in the Hebrew: ben elohiym and the word all (all the sons of God) is a translation of the Hebrew word kol which means "the whole" If it were translated word-for-word, the verse could just as well be translated "When the morning star shouted for joy in unity, and with every part made a joyful noise". That's really cool, lekh! Thank-you for this! No problem, Nebula. I've done my own digging on that verse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) Being a star of the morning is not being the Morning Star. We need to be careful not to mix the two " I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Tying the two together, as you did, is wrong. I did not read your statement as being poetic. Both Christ and Lucifer are referred to as morning stars in the scriptur That is where heresy comes from, by making statements and then brushing it off, never correcting them. Others read and believe. You should know this with all the writing you do. "sigh" Lucifer masculine noun Root Word (Etymology) 1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer The Hebrew meaning is not a heresy, its a fact http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr13/WolfBitn/lucifer.gif ^^^Heres more from Hebrew sources Edited July 29, 2009 by WolfBitn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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