Mary's appearence at fatima

[Guest LCPGUY]

If we can invoke the 'angels' as shown in the Psalms, why would we be unable to invoke Mary?

Invoking an Angel is one thing, praying to them is entirely different and not mentioned anywhere in scripture. An angel may indeed be invoked, but it is due to praying to God directly, and it is God alone who commands the angel.

And I beg to differ with you, Mary is as dead as a doornail. Period. She has no glorified resurrected body any more than you or I do, yet. But I

[Guest Called]

Serving Him-

I will repeat my earlier statement:

I don't want any hard feelings, so I will bow out of this thread now and I will agree to disagree. God Bless!

[ServingHim]

of course they

[ServingHim]

Serving Him-

I will repeat my earlier statement:

I don't want any hard feelings, so I will bow out of this thread now and I will agree to disagree. God Bless!

called, no problem whatsoever. Your thoughts will be missed. Thank you for your kindness. No hard feelings; never were. Thanks for noting again that you're not discussing this though... Have a blessed weekend.

[stevehut]

steve, is there a point to your question? I must be missing something.

You said that Mary is worthy of devotion for two reasons:

1) Because she raised her child and looked after him into adulthood; and

2) Because he performed a miracle at her request.

But in the case of #1, that's what every mother does. And in the case of #2, the Bible records that he performed miracles upon request from several people besides Mom.

So I still don't understand...how do these things make Mary worthy of devotion?

[ServingHim]

steve, is there a point to your question?  I must be missing something.

You said that Mary is worthy of devotion for two reasons:

1) Because she raised her child and looked after him into adulthood; and

2) Because he performed a miracle at her request.

But in the case of #1, that's what every mother does. And in the case of #2, the Bible records that he performed miracles upon request from several people besides Mom.

So I still don't understand...how do these things make Mary worthy of devotion?

scripture says that ALL GENERATIONS shall call her blessed...for me, loving her as Christ did is devotion.

Devotion means (according to encarta)

1. committed love: deep love and commitment

2. dedication: great dedication and loyalty

3. enthusiasm: strong enthusiasm and admiration for somebody or something

4. religious fervor: fervent religious or spiritual feeling ( formal )

5. act of devoting: the act of devoting something or being devoted to a particular purpose

Don't people have 'devotion' to the scriptures? What about 'devotion' to a spouse?

This is what I meant by 'devotion' to Mary. She is worthy, according to scripture, that ALL generations call her blessed.

blessed, according to the dictionary means ...

1. religion holy: made holy

2. christianity beatified: declared holy

Have a wonderful day! Peace.

[Guest Called]

Have a blessed weekend

You too, SH!

[Guest LCPGUY]

of course they

[GoodSamaritan]

1) Because she raised her child and looked after him into adulthood; and

2) Because he performed a miracle at her request.

First, let me say that this is not what the Catholic Church uses as its' justification to venerate (not worship) Mary. The Church points to Scripture and Sacred Tradition in its' Marian Dogmas, not esoteric and amorphous reasons like the ones quoted. While these two reasons are true, they are not valid reasons, standing on their own, to venerate Mary.

Second, it seems that the thread has drifted a bit. The topic is Marian apparitions, not whether or not she is worthy of our veneration. The Church has made it clear that apparitions, when credible, are private revelation and, therefore, not binding on Christians. There is nobody from any Church that I know who would say we are obligated to believe in the apparition. Were there any apparitions in the Bible? Well, Elijah and Moses appeared during the Transfiguration. St. Paul had an intellectual apparition when he saw the third heaven. Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar had visions of God in their dreams. It seems to me that Apparitions HAVE occurred, and they are nothing new with our times. They didn't start in modern times. Since they have occurred in the past, they may be occurring now. There is no need to conclude that apparitions stopped, say, in 1858 at Lourdes. To say they do not occur is certainly any Christian's right. To KNOW the evidence provided and the circumstances probably should have some part in our discernment, right? The fact that Mary appeared to a certain person who is not Christian is certainly a valid question but shouldn't automatically discount the apparition solely based on this standard. Some pretty amazing things happened at Fatima. Jesus told us that when we disagree regarding such things, we are to go to the Church. (Mt 18:17-18)

Thus far, the Church has made it clear that we are not bound by the apparitions but that, based on their investigation, that some are real.

GS

[stevehut]

Second, it seems that the thread has drifted a bit. The topic is Marian apparitions, not whether or not she is worthy of our veneration.

Nope, this is quite relevant.

If Mary was not considered worthy of veneration, would anyone be claiming these visions?