Mary's appearence at fatima

[Orr v'emet]

yet if we use such a broad brushed term, Baptist, Methodist, anyone for that matter, could be accused of the same thing.

Sorry...I'm baptist but I only worship God, not human beings which is all that Mary was. I don't need her or anyone else to interceed for me. I only need the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

[apothanein kerdos]

yet if we use such a broad brushed term, Baptist, Methodist, anyone for that matter, could be accused of the same thing.

Sorry...I'm baptist but I only worship God, not human beings which is all that Mary was. I don't need her or anyone else to interceed for me. I only need the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

I know, what I was saying is if we take a broadbrushed view of worship so we can say Catholics worship Mary, everyone else is inevitably going to fall under it as well.

[Orr v'emet]

I know, what I was saying is if we take a broadbrushed view of worship so we can say Catholics worship Mary, everyone else is inevitably going to fall under it as well.

I really don't get what you are saying here...

[apothanein kerdos]

Mary is exalted for Catholics. It's almost no different than a Baptist going to their pastor whom they love and respect and asking them to pray for them, and also defending that pastor no matter what.

[Ovedya]

Mary is exalted for Catholics. It's almost no different than a Baptist going to their pastor whom they love and respect and asking them to pray for them, and also defending that pastor no matter what.

Yes, but few Baptists I know would craft a guilded statue of their pastor and parade it around town so folks can throw flowers and coins at it. And no Baptist I know would crawl for miles on their bloodied hands and knees to get to a church in which another statue in the image of their pastor rests.

In fact, nowhere else in the world do we find such "veneration" of a person. Nowhere in the world (That I am aware of) has such religious ferver over this woman caused people to craft statues and adorn it with treasures of the earth so valuable that they could practically purchase an entire continent with them (http://www.monmouth.com/~samus/marytalk/graphics/maryt32.gif)

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm not denying that some Catholics worship Mary. What I am saying is that it's not within the church doctrines.

[Ovedya]

I'm not denying that some Catholics worship Mary. What I am saying is that it's not within the church doctrines.

Actually, it is.

The Code of Canon Law states that, "The practice of exposing sacred images in churches for the veneration of the faithful is to be retained. " (Part II, Title IV, Can. 1188).

The word veneration, means "The highest degree of respect and reverence; respect mingled with awe; a feeling or sentimental excited by the dignity, wisdom, or superiority of a person, by sacredness of character, by consecration to sacred services, or by hallowed associations. -- a profound emotion inspired by a deity; "the fear of God"

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the purpose of venerating images is to venerate the persons that those images represent.

Therefore, since the Code of Canon Law requires "sacred images," and since the Catechism encourages the veneration of the people represented by those images, it is very much a doctrine in the RC that Mary, the Saints, etc. be venerated, or in other words, worshipped.

[apothanein kerdos]

Well now, I stand corrected

[Ovedya]

That's what I was talking about with respect to the blurring of the distiction between reverence and worship.

[stevehut]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the purpose of venerating images is to venerate the persons that those images represent.

Doesn't it say in Exodus that you shouldn't bow down to an image? Every time I attend a Catholic church, I see people bowing down to the statues and images.

Does the Catechism supersede the Torah?