God's Character and War

[~candice~]

So... can we see God actively (as opposed to passively) pursing and demaning purity through war *question mark*.

[Matthitjah]

So... can we see God actively (as opposed to passively) pursing and demaning purity through war *question mark*.

Grace to you,

I don't know if I agree with your concept completely. However, we can see God actively keeping His Word.

Peace,

Dave

[BlindSeeker]

This is a question I've struggled with all my Christian life. Why is how God portrayed in the OT seem so different from how he is portrayed in the NT and especially as revealed in the character and teachings of Jesus? I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory answer. But I do believe that all the fullness of the Godhead was expressed in Christ so I look to him first. And for that reason I am a pacifist.

Jesus did what He did to prove the devil a liar and that God was worthy of all glory, honor and power.

This is Jesus as He is about to return -

Re 19:11 And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous He doth judge and make war.

12 And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and

He hath a name written which no one knoweth but He Himself

.

13 And He is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure.

15 And out of His mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

16 And He hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KINGS OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The name Jesus took when He came meant "Deliverer" because that was the mission of His first coming . . . but I assure you the "name written which no one knoweth but He Himself" is not Pacifist.

Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.

9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah.

[BlindSeeker]

The OT is full of war, often under the order of God. Obviously these biblical accounts are given to use for a reason. What elements of God's character do you see come out in war, either war in the OT or in today's world? How does it help you to relate to God, or understand the bible?

De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that He may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Before God "is love," or "is merciful," He is foremost holy and righteous and a defender of His name with judgment . . . as seen in His own fulfilled judgment against those He gave the land to -

De 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;

59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.

63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you;

so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you

, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not . . .

[Fez]

When God allowed Israel to detroy the Canaanites He was also teaching the Israelites a lesson in faith. Remember He said, you may take no spoils of war when you leave.

It was trial of the faith for the Israelites and a cleansing of a people who worshiped false gods. Israel had been grumbling and despaired of getting possession of Canaan. God however enabled them by his grace to prove themselves in His eyes, and to trust in him for relief against this powerful enemy.

Had the Canaanites just allowed the Israelites free passage they would have been spared, but God used the Israelites to destroy Canaan because they were idol worshipers, to test the faith of Israel, and to show them His grace.

So yes, in this case I think God used war as a means to many ends.

However, when Jesus died for us much of this changed. The NT teaches us that there are wars to come, yes, (but these are ordained by scripture) but I also think that man, in his fallen state, wages war for many reasons that have nothing to do with righteousness, but have more to do with greed, resources, power and religious and political ambiton. The blood of the cross is ignored, or even worse, used as a foundation for some wars.

The only good thing to be said about war (if there is anything), is that "there are no athiests in foxholes".

[~candice~]

So... can we see God actively (as opposed to passively) pursing and demaning purity through war *question mark*.

Grace to you,

I don't know if I agree with your concept completely. However, we can see God actively keeping His Word.

Peace,

Dave

It was a question, LOL (my question mark key is broken!). Can you expand on the idea of war being God actively keeping His Word *question mark*.

[BlindSeeker]

I'm not Jesus . . .

Was your awareness of you being a pacifist your first clue you weren't Him?

. . . Are you?

My . . . I would have though you knew the answer to that.

But since you asked, no I am not.

Why do you ask?

[Matthitjah]

The OT is full of war, often under the order of God. Obviously these biblical accounts are given to use for a reason. What elements of God's character do you see come out in war, either war in the OT or in today's world? How does it help you to relate to God, or understand the bible?

Every action that God takes is conditioned by all of His attributes. But it demonstrates most clearly His holiness

In what way?

Most of the Wars is which God commanded Israel to engage were to remove pagan worshippers from the land. This demonstrates God's desire to maintain HIs own "set apartness'.

Still not seeing it. How can any action of man detract from God's holiness? The wars in question seem to revolve around defeating Israel's enemies.

Grace to you,

Then let's state it another way. They weren't enemies of Israel but had made themselves enemies of God.

He set Israel apart for His own Glory.

Peace,

Dave

Pretty much the whole world at that time was God's enemy. And later a good part of Israel as well. Yet God didn't tell Israel to declare war on the world.

Grace to you,

Yes, then there's this;

Eze

[~candice~]

Grace to you,

Yes, then there's this;

Eze

[Arthur Durnan]

God is not an India-rubber Deity, able to love, comfort & succor, but not able to exercise holy justice and punishment for sins. He isn't all love & nothing else. He is love indeed but also a thrice-holy God Who hates the sin of His people & of His created order. In fact, truth to tell, the most outstanding example of God's holiness (since the Cross & the sacrifice of His Own Son for sins not His Own) is still ahead.....holiness & judgment intermingled & poured out at Armaggedon including 100-pound hailstones!! Watch out, unregenerate man, watch out! Rush to His sheltering arms while it is still day.